EPTA little shame that his recent ZvZ has been lacking a little :/
A Brief Look Into Jaedong's Best Match-Up - Page 2
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Kurao
215 Posts
A little shame that his recent ZvZ has been lacking a little :/ | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On November 05 2018 23:57 Sero wrote: He isn’t using amateur statistics to argue anything about protoss strength at pro level. In fact he didn’t mention statistics at all. Your post talked about people complaining about protoss despite the race’s lack of competitive success in pro games, but people can complain about something being strong at low level without inferring anything about pro play. DT drop against a bad terran is a good example - the terran player can complain that it’s easy to execute and harder to defend at their level. It doesn’t mean they think DT drop is unfair in pro games and protoss is too strong at the highest level. Thank you Sero, you're right. Letmelose, I was reflecting on how complaining about imbalance and unfairness happens in other situations too, although it might not be justified. The example I gave was how because people in low levels complain about Protoss despite it being the "weaker" race at the highest level. Hence, the presence of people are complaints about something is not necessarily linked to that something actually being unfair or imbalanced. | ||
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Letmelose
Korea (South)3227 Posts
On November 08 2018 05:37 JieXian wrote: Thank you Sero, you're right. Letmelose, I was reflecting on how complaining about imbalance and unfairness happens in other situations too, although it might not be justified. The example I gave was how because people in low levels complain about Protoss despite it being the "weaker" race at the highest level. Hence, the presence of people are complaints about something is not necessarily linked to that something actually being unfair or imbalanced. Agreed. The essence of the game isn't reflected by our subjective experience of the game. I'm not even sure if the protoss race is the weakest race at the highest possible human level. While the protoss race has seen less success at the highest level of competition throughout history, Stork has said that if all players played without mistakes in judgement (all gamers playing as if they have map hacks), the protoss race has the upper hand over the other two races, but it is harder to achieve such a state because the information dynamics tend to be infavourable for the protoss race. Even rewards in multi-tasking tends to differ between the races. In a well co-ordinated team melee setting between top players, it has become the general consensus that the protoss race exceeds the other two races in terms of performance. The combination of Flash, Last, and Mind couldn't do anything to the combination of Bisu, BeSt, and Shuttle. Zerg ex-professionals hate playing team melee setting versus top protoss ex-professionals because individually micro-managed corsairs and shuttles are harder to snipe with scourges, even if the scourges are exclusively managed by a single person. So while I think it is okay to establish details over the result discrepancy between the three races, based on statistics, I do not trust people to make judgements on how that entails in terms of raw gaming balance issues, because everybody has their own subjective angle on the matter. | ||
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JieXian
Malaysia4677 Posts
On November 08 2018 08:16 Letmelose wrote: Agreed. The essence of the game isn't reflected by our subjective experience of the game. I'm not even sure if the protoss race is the weakest race at the highest possible human level. While the protoss race has seen less success at the highest level of competition throughout history, Stork has said that if all players played without mistakes in judgement (all gamers playing as if they have map hacks), the protoss race has the upper hand over the other two races, but it is harder to achieve such a state because the information dynamics tend to be infavourable for the protoss race. Even rewards in multi-tasking tends to differ between the races. In a well co-ordinated team melee setting between top players, it has become the general consensus that the protoss race exceeds the other two races in terms of performance. The combination of Flash, Last, and Mind couldn't do anything to the combination of Bisu, BeSt, and Shuttle. Zerg ex-professionals hate playing team melee setting versus top protoss ex-professionals because individually micro-managed corsairs and shuttles are harder to snipe with scourges, even if the scourges are exclusively managed by a single person. So while I think it is okay to establish details over the result discrepancy between the three races, based on statistics, I do not trust people to make judgements on how that entails in terms of raw gaming balance issues, because everybody has their own subjective angle on the matter. I see, that's interesting, thanks. Anyway I think you might have interpreted my initial reply in that different way because you're too used to people disagreeing with you. | ||
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