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So I know there are plenty of resources around here for learning about BW, but I was hoping some super helpful TLers could give me some shortcuts in the form of quick summaries  . I'm playing both SC2 and remastered and I think it's really fun to be playing both. Having some difficulty with a couple of things though..
- Scouting. The damn minimap is all black, and I swear I click my SCV around the whole thing, but it takes forever to find the other guy. Is the pathing bad enough that you have to know exactly where to click? Or maybe my opponents had their ramps blocked e.g. with 2 zealots?
- If someone wouldn't mind list common army comps for the terran matchup, that would be great. I'm not really big on studying build orders and getting them exactly right - I just kind of do something that gets me towards a common army comp. So far, for every matchup I've been opening depot/rax/rax/depot/gas/academy. Then doing a marine med push, and then adding tanks and an expansion. Obviously you have to react to what your opponent is doing, tech up to be able to do the caster micro wars etc. But I just wanted to get a rough idea of what some good units comps are.
- In terms of your first couple buildings, what are some good alternatives to depot/rax/rax.
- Can marines be stutter stepped against zealots? Or only when stimmed? Stutter stepping seems hard because they stop long enough for the zealot to come up and get a hit in.
- How important are the different academy upgrades when going bio? Is pure bio ever a good comp?
Thanks!
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Scout is fine if you click anywhere in their base. You should be able to tell when the ramp is blocked, but yes he'll get a tiny bit confused. Pathing only gets bad when neutral buildings or minerals or units are blocking a path, as they aren't included in pathing calculations, so units just run into them and sort of mill around the area hoping it becomes unblocked.
TvP Tank Vulture. You must get goliaths if you scan carriers.
TvT Tank Vulture. You must get goliath or wraith if you scan wraiths. Goliath can also pick off dropship, but that's less common.
TvZ Medic, Marine, Firebat. Choose 2port vessels with 1fac tanks or 2fac tanks with 1port vessel. You can transition into mech from Marine Medic, but it's a tough timing against a good opponent. You need vessels for irradiate muta/lurker/defiler/ultra.
There are a zillion build orders. Just don't get supply blocked and don't die. Strong players in SC1 memorize builds up to very high supply counts. You won't really be able to deal with timing attacks if you don't, so you just have to watch VODs. But to answer your question, players frequently get an expo and start tech before they start their next production buildings. Of course you don't want more than one barracks vs Protoss, as storm and reaver are very strong vs bio.
There is no stutter stepping in SC1. Marine micro usually involves trying to let other marines shoot while one runs away from melee units, or concentrating fire, or getting medics/scvs in the way of oncoming units. And of course not bunching up vs lurker. I guess I know stutter step when I see it in SC2, but I don't think hit and run tactics in SC1 are equivalent. We have patrol micro for very mobile units, and for goliaths/tanks/dragoons and similar units, I guess the attack, move a little, attack could be considered stutter step, but you have to have good timing between the actions so they all fire correctly and run away right after firing. In SC1 you can accidentally interrupt attack animation and not fire at all. In general, most units are too slow to not take any hits, you just minimize damage, like goons vs zerglings trying not to get surrounded, will still take hits doing hit and run.
Pure Bio is good vs Zerg, and effective vs protoss only before they get tech and cannons. People almost never use it vs protoss except as an all-in surprise. You must get stim and range for marines. Medic upgrades are rarely researched, but if your opponent does something goofy like lockdown sometimes restore is a rude awakening.
Have fun Best way to learn is just watch replays or vods, but if you want the quick answers that's it.
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Hey, welcome on BW!
For the scouting part, you just have to know the start locations of the map. On maps such as Fighting Spirit or Circuit Breaker, it will be easy : just scout to the corners. On maps such as Python, you'll have to get used to their particular spots.
If the ramp is blocked, your scv will at least reach the bottom of the ramp before being lost.
You must know that on BW, bio exists only in TvZ. Almost. There are some two bases push in TvP with tanks marines medic, but it's pretty all in. Bio is very strong against basic gateways units : ie zealot/goons.I But if you don't win quickly, you'll get hard countered by storms. Or reaver if the protoss has a good micro. In TvT, any mech units will hard counter bio : vultures are small units killer, no comments on siege tank (they one shot marines with a splash damage), and goliaths are also pretty good against bio with their 12 damages on any unit. So in TvP and TvT, you should go mech. Usually it's :
-8 supply
- 11 rax
- 11 gas
- 16 factory
Or 1 rax CC with a bunker into gas and factory. Check liquipedia for more details.
Even in TvZ, double rax doesn't exist anymore in the meta. It's a bo used in mainly in 2v2. The standard is going 1 rax expand. There are some one base push, but if you don't do damages, you will be behind your opponent.
The important upgrades in the academy are obviously stimpack and marine range. The medics research aren't that important. Restore can be useful in late game for your plagued units (usually the big ones, like vessels or BCs).
You should watch a few streams and replays to have a rough idea about the meta
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Thanks for the summaries, just what I needed. I honestly prefer to wing it with builds to an extent (although that's probably because I mostly play team games in SC2) so this is perfect. Time for some Frontier League action .
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TvT don't go Tank Vulture as Chef said, go Tank Goliath. Goliaths wreck Vultures and Mines, and are good vs Wraiths and Dropships, and are better vs Tanks than Vultures (unless tanks are naked and low in number). Vultures can be used only when you get better, as they are fragile and you have to know what to do with them. Vultures are only good for scouting, keeping map control, and the opponent in his base, and the occasional worker raid. You should probably stay away from Wraith openings, as they're very fragile, and if you don't know what to do, it's a suicide. Anyways, TvT is all about getting into a good position before your opponent does, and limiting his expo count. Straight up attacks are rare and suicidal usually, because sieged tanks are godly for defense. You only do straight up attacks if you have a big advantage or the enemy army is spread thin. When somewhat of a stalemate happens, you use dropships to drop expos/production, and expand/protect your expos. The very late game is usually composed of Tank+Battlecruiser (yamato and mobility/tankiness) and a few goliaths, with several dropships to provide quick Tank support for battlecruisers.
Also, TvZ, Firebats are rarely made, they're mostly made to counter a Zergling allin, or hold a Ling backstab/counterattack. Other advice Chef gave for TvZ is good. Bio upgrades are as important as in SC2. The mech transition should come some time after you take your 3rd, and it starts with mass Vultures/Mines, into Tanks. You can't really stutter step Marines in SC1.
At the start you defend, until you get stim/medics, then you push out and contain zerg. When they get mutas, you go back and defend, and try to push out before they get lurkers, to contain them again and kill the 3rd. It's important to delay the Zerg 3rd as much as you can. The more gasses the zerg has the worse for you it is. After that, the zerg will get defilers+lurkers, and here you have to be aggressive as hell (but cautiously so), because if you let them near your base it's gg. Use drops too, 7 marines 1 medic, or 6 marines 1 firebat 1 medic. From there on out, you expand and prepare to fight vs Ultras (you usually need mines/tanks to fight them in higher numbers).
If you want to bust a zerg's expo in the early mid-game, you need at least 1 medic per sunken, more if there's zerglings or you want to be safe.
TvP as Chef said. Get 2 expos as quickly as you can without dying, and then build up an army and ugprades, and attack. There's various timings there, but you'll learn them from watching others or experimenting/thinking. Vultures kinda counter zealots, less so in a straight up big fights. Vultures are goldy for raiding, you go in, put mines to block their units, and kill probes. It takes 2 vulture shots to kill a probe, so if you even manage to sneak in 1-2 vultures, they can do a lot of damage if left unchecked for even ~10s.
Honestly, this matchup will first mostly consist of you learning to survive the start, as protoss has many different ways to kill you quickly, while you're trying to get your economy/tech up. Once you start being able to defend at the start, you'll see that protosses outexpand and outmacro you because you are too passive. Then you'll start noticing different timings that you can use to attack them to punish them or prevent this. Or you'll do a 200/200 push praying that you get a good victory and can play well enough to not die to their follow-up macro, while taking a 4th.
As a final thought, SC1 is more forgiving than SC2 when you make mistakes and lose fights, so don't get discouraged when you lose a fight, you can come back many times if you play well from then on out.
Good luck and welcome!
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Nothing really wrong with what quirinus said, I would just add vulture are effective for absorbing hits when you are trying to push a tank line (so your tanks have time to siege and shoot). When people did nothing but mass dropship getting goliath was a no-brainer, but now vulture have a lot of uses. You can't really go wrong building goliath in TvT though  It just means you have less gas for tanks and other tech. Mass vulture you tend to see a lot more factories, tank goliath people can stay on 4fac for most of the game. I like vultures TvT, so that's why I said that, but many things Terran do demand you get at least a few goliath in the mix if only to prevent letting them have perfect vision with floating e-bay and barracks.
Firebats are rare in the sense you don't get many, but not rare in the sense you don't build them at all. Early game you often get 1-2. Late game you often mix them in to punish Zerg who have swarm but not lurker or ultra. Unless lings get a perfect surround, they are pretty invincible vs them.
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10387 Posts
As a Protoss, if I see a Terran open up with any 2 barracks build other than an BBS allin, I offer a small prayer to god for the easy win. I highly recommend that you learn the simcity patterns for optimal defense against zealots .. there are building arrangements that will block zealots but allow marines to go inbetween.
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Very fun game that obviously has more strategic depth and back and forth than SC2. Currently 1570 on US east...
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EPT
