• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:28
CEST 01:28
KST 08:28
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S RO12 Preview: GuMiho, Bunny, SHIN, ByuN3The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL40Code S RO12 Preview: Cure, Zoun, Solar, Creator4[ASL19] Finals Preview: Daunting Task30[ASL19] Ro4 Recap : The Peak15
Community News
Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back0EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results17Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)3Weekly Cups (May 19-25): Hindsight is 20/20?0DreamHack Dallas 2025 - Official Replay Pack8
StarCraft 2
General
EWC 2025 Regional Qualifier Results The SCII GOAT: A statistical Evaluation The Memories We Share - Facing the Final(?) GSL Is there a place to provide feedback for maps? Code S RO12 Results + RO8 Groups (2025 Season 2)
Tourneys
SOOPer7s Showmatches 2025 Weekly Cups (May 27-June 1): ByuN goes back-to-back EWC 2025 Regional Qualifiers (May 28-June 1) WardiTV Mondays RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
[G] Darkgrid Layout Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] PvT Cheese: 13 Gate Proxy Robo
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target Mutation # 474 Futile Resistance Mutation # 473 Cold is the Void
Brood War
General
Will foreigners ever be able to challenge Koreans? Battle.net is not working BW General Discussion BGH auto balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Which player typ excels at which race or match up?
Tourneys
[ASL19] Grand Finals [BSL20] RO20 Group Stage [BSL20] RO20 Group D - Sunday 20:00 CET [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
[G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Mechabellum Monster Hunter Wilds Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
LiquidLegends to reintegrate into TL.net
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Plays: Diplomacy TL Mafia: Generative Agents Showdown Survivor II: The Amazon
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Maru Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NHL Playoffs 2024 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Cleaning My Mechanical Keyboard How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL.net Ten Commandments
Blogs
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
Research study on team perfo…
TrAiDoS
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Poker
Nebuchad
Info SLEgma_12
SLEgma_12
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 17628 users

Where it all went wrong

Blogs > LegalLord
Post a Reply
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 28 2016 20:00 GMT
#1
So I just finished writing up a sequel to an old project, a treatise on balance in Brood War based on statistical analysis. While writing things up, there was one graph that was part of that writeup that made me feel particularly sad:

[image loading]


Following one of its most active points in 2009, Brood War progaming suffered an absolutely brutal, and ultimately fatal, decline in just a few years. But more important than the game count, is just simply how that time period was for those who were there.

My original TL account has a join date of 27 April, 2010. I came somewhat late to the BW scene, and I only started paying attention to the game maybe a year before that, in 2009. But I remember that I was there to see how quickly and painfully the scene came crumbling down. I originally came from the Command & Conquer community, which by that time had lost a lot of its luster. In Brood War, I found a game that I could appreciate just as much as the C&C games I loved.

2009 was a pretty optimistic time for the game - the BW scene was well developed, and SC2 was still held in high regard by just about everyone as the wave of the future. In fact, a few friends of mine suggested that I try BW, as a way to prepare for the release of SC2 which was slated to be the next amazing RTS. Ultimately, I ended up enjoying BW in its own right, especially because of its vibrant progaming scene. The ability to watch games that were broadcasted on TV really added a lot to the experience, and I know I spent many nights watching games that were broadcasted at 4:00 in the morning because that was when they were live.

2010 was a rough patch. About the time I joined TL, the two big controversies that would ultimately be the end of the pro scene surfaced: the Blizzard-KeSPA dispute over IP rights, and the match fixing scandal. The immediate casualty of the former was the loss of the eSTRO team (the owner of which was in BW for broadcasting rights), and the latter cost us the Hite Sparkyz team (which lost its lineup to match fixing). But for the time being, things went on.

Ultimately, Blizzard did manage to come to an agreement with OGN, MBC, and KeSPA on broadcasting rights, and the match fixers were banned from BW and prosecuted. But the damage was done. The Blizzard dispute contributed in no small part to a rift between the BW and SC2 communities, with the BW community fearing for the survival of their game (incidentally, the reverse happened whenever SC2 progamers quit to return to BW, which is why I really don't like BW players who are jerks about that happening). The match fixing scandal was worse; eventually it simply destroyed the ability of BW to acquire sponsors for its tournaments.

In 2010 and for many years before, there were three OSLs and three MSLs per year. In 2011, there were one of each. In 2012, MBCGame closed, citing match fixing as the primary cause. OGN managed to host one more OSL in 2012, which would end up being the last one for BW. Around that time, a lot of progaming teams either closed down or at least left BW.

More than the events that caused the progaming scene to end, I remember the events that truly destroyed my own personal interest in the BW scene. The end of MBCGame was one of them; it was an event so brutal and significant that I could not see the progaming scene survive it. The second was the hybrid Proleague format - Bo3 of BW, Bo3 of SC2, then an SC2 ace match. I've joked before that the Bisu vs. Flash ace match in the SPL Finals was the last true game of BW. Now that I think about it, perhaps it was at least true for me personally. I saw a lot of series in the hybrid format that involved 2-0 victories in BW, 1-2 loss in SC2, then a loss in the ace match (leading to an overall loss), which really just made the BW part of the league seem absolutely irrelevant. Soon after, the last OSL concluded and there was a full switch to SC2.

My own interest in the scene never recovered. Out of the ashes of the BW progaming scene came the Afreeca amateur scene, with a few leagues, and in a way BW went on. In fact, the SSL was popular enough that it managed to have one of its leagues broadcasted on OGN. But it never really felt anything like what progaming was back in the old days.

Anyone who remembers me knows that I was a huge fan of Bisu back in the day. I watched two individual leagues pretty closely: SSL 9 and SSL 10, both of which had Bisu vs by.hero in the finals. And yet, I remember my thoughts after watching each of those finals:
SSL 9 (Bisu 3-2 hero): "Bisu won, but he really played terribly. If he had his usual skill level he would have won this one 3-0 given how weakly hero played."
SSL 10 (Bisu 0-3 hero): "Played just as badly as last time, just punished harder for being so inflexible. I'm not surprised."

Doesn't really sound like the words of a huge fan, does it? In recent times I've often been in the awkward position of being critical of Bisu while others defend him, a far cry from how things were back in the day.

These days, I'm mostly here on TL for the community (which is wonderful), specifically the General forums. SC2 never appealed to me, and I only very occasionally pay attention to BW. The leagues and games still exist, but somehow it lost the magic it had back then. I know I'm not the only one who feels this way - many others I've talked to feel as I do, and most of the people I remember from 2012 and earlier no longer visit TL.

I commend those who still contribute to the scene - the writers, casters, and programmers - who still have the interest and dedication to continue to make content for BW. I know that it's an effort that a lot of people appreciate, and it's unfortunate that I no longer have that sort of interest in the game.

History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Espers
Profile Joined August 2009
United Kingdom606 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-29 09:28:06
August 29 2016 09:26 GMT
#2
BW was on the decline long before the match-fixing, if you look up viewer attendance at PL finals it peaked in 2004-2006 with 100k or so. It dipped down at 30k in 2008 (it rained heavily), long before SC2 or the match-fixing. Then I believe in the next few years it actually did better and stabilized somewhat.

It's a bit of a myth that match-fixing killed BW, it was more due to an already waning interest plus the emergence of SC2 and LoL which were the big cash cows at the time.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-07-03 00:20:03
August 29 2016 12:04 GMT
#3
I only partially agree. Yes, I do think that BW was already on the decline, and that its life was limited. It may be telling that SC2 itself seems to be in its waning years and is kind of small compared to LoL, CS, DotA, and the like. 2006 was, as I recall, the peak of attendance at the PL finals.

But at the same time I think that match fixing gave it an early, and disgraceful, death. That was what killed most of the goodwill of sponsors and led to the loss of MBC. If not for that, BW would probably have seen a slow decline. Instead, the game crashed in the span of two years.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
ArvickHero
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
10387 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-29 13:29:38
August 29 2016 13:14 GMT
#4
On August 29 2016 18:26 Espers wrote:
BW was on the decline long before the match-fixing, if you look up viewer attendance at PL finals it peaked in 2004-2006 with 100k or so. It dipped down at 30k in 2008 (it rained heavily), long before SC2 or the match-fixing. Then I believe in the next few years it actually did better and stabilized somewhat.

It's a bit of a myth that match-fixing killed BW, it was more due to an already waning interest plus the emergence of SC2 and LoL which were the big cash cows at the time.

on the decline =/= death. I think BW would have remained stable and still have a healthy pro scene today if it weren't for the one-two punch by Blizzard's lawsuit and the match-fixing controversy. Yes, LoL has far eclipsed BW's popularity at this point, but SC2 never really managed to grab hold in Korea the way BW ever did.. SC2 would never have managed to displace BW on its own. BW fulfills a certain niche in eSports that LoL can't (1v1, as opposed to teams), and more importantly, it had history. The fact that it still somewhat survives into today, without the support of Blizzard, is a testament to its fans and how compelling the game is...

I sympathize with LegalLord with how he feels about today's scene. At first, I found it all to be extremely fun; games and players were full of style and personality, even if it was a lower level of play from before. But, whether it was from the novelty wearing off, or from the more stylish amateurs being displaced by expros who were, quite frankly, only shells of themselves ..... or just real life priorities taking over in general, my interest in the scene faded as well.

On one hand, I feel a huge amount of empathy towards these expros who still play. If you were some freakish genius, it would maybe take you at least 3 years before you got a televised game--mere mortals could expect to toil away for 5+ years before getting any such opportunity. The game is so demanding, so impossible, and so filled with nuance, that it required you to dedicate a freakish amount of time on a daily basis in order to stay in shape at the highest of levels--moreso than any other eSports game out there. Imagine, to have spent all that time honing your craft, only for it to be rendered useless. Your choices are to either retire and maybe stream, or switch to a game that's sort of similar (but not really). It sucks and I know that, had I grown up in Korea instead of the States, this might have been a situation I would have had to face myself ..

On the other hand .. the Pandora's Box has already been opened. When I see them play in tournament now, I can't help but compare it to how meticulous and smart their gameplay was before. I can't help but wonder about what could have been..... and I can't help but feel a little disappointed by what I see today. Still, I'm glad that a number of expros are able to make a living today off of their skills that they've invested so much time into .. but my pessimistic view on things is that this is pretty much the end of the line. Without new blood, without the means to completely devote your time to training and breaking new ground, the game (as a "competitive scene") is destined to fade away when the old stars of yesteryear finally stop streaming. I hope, as we move through the next decade, that I'm proven wrong. We'll see!
Writerptrk
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 32m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft300
JuggernautJason111
ForJumy 63
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 3911
Artosis 739
League of Legends
tarik_tv7976
Has19
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1200
flusha876
Fnx 10
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox612
C9.Mang0246
Heroes of the Storm
Grubby4238
Other Games
summit1g13682
shahzam1142
Maynarde133
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick725
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta39
• RyuSc2 33
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21500
• Ler89
Other Games
• imaqtpie2142
• Shiphtur451
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
32m
Replay Cast
10h 32m
PiGosaur Monday
1d
Bellum Gens Elite
1d 12h
The PondCast
2 days
Bellum Gens Elite
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Bellum Gens Elite
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
4 days
Bellum Gens Elite
4 days
Fire Grow Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
SOOP
5 days
SHIN vs GuMiho
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
AllThingsProtoss
5 days
Fire Grow Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-05-28
DreamHack Dallas 2025
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL Season 17: Qualifier 1
2025 GSL S2
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
ECL Season 49: Europe
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025
BLAST Open Spring 2025

Upcoming

CSL Season 17: Qualifier 2
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLAN 2025
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2025
Murky Cup #2
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.