• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:31
CEST 10:31
KST 17:31
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week5[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall10HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7Weekly Cups (June 30 - July 6): Classic Doubles6[BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China10Flash Announces Hiatus From ASL70
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 1 - Final Week RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings We need to be discussing a new patch right now! Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation
Tourneys
$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
https://www.facebook.com/SAINTSKINVitaminCSerumCan
External Content
Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome Mutation # 478 Instant Karma
Brood War
General
A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone BW General Discussion ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Script to open stream directly using middle click
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Last Minute Live-Report Thread Resource! [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5 Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
How to Contact Robinhood Support? +1 1808 2348 198 US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Accidental Video Game Porn Archive
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 552 users

The problem of morality - Page 2

Blogs > firehand101
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
TwoTrickPony
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
30 Posts
March 25 2016 04:30 GMT
#21
I don't really have any answers to this but I did get a question when reading what you wrote.

My question was what does moral mean? I looked it up in a dictionary but to be frank, the definition I got didn't clear anything up for me.

Also from Djzapz comments it came to mind that maybe objective and subjective are not so mutually exclusive? (people do live in reality after all, so even if we all experience it differently it is still within a shared whole).

I do agree that very often problems get "solved" in a way that doesn't solve them for very long. Pretty disturbing to think about sometimes.

Have you been struggling with this at all lately firehand101? I often think about this stuff when I have to go through it so mostly just wondering.
imgbaby
Profile Blog Joined May 2015
158 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 06:08:57
March 25 2016 05:41 GMT
#22
On March 25 2016 13:30 TwoTrickPony wrote:
I don't really have any answers to this but I did get a question when reading what you wrote.

My question was what does moral mean? I looked it up in a dictionary but to be frank, the definition I got didn't clear anything up for me.

Also from Djzapz comments it came to mind that maybe objective and subjective are not so mutually exclusive? (people do live in reality after all, so even if we all experience it differently it is still within a shared whole).

I do agree that very often problems get "solved" in a way that doesn't solve them for very long. Pretty disturbing to think about sometimes.

Have you been struggling with this at all lately firehand101? I often think about this stuff when I have to go through it so mostly just wondering.


Great question. I think the moral decision is the one that brings joy and fairness, equality and freedom to all. Though each culture has its own ideas, and these are often subjective. This is cultural relativism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativism .... despite this there still must be an idea of what is best for the human spirit, because as we see there are systems for medicinal health. For instance it is best not to eat or drink e coli. So theoretically there must be decisions best for human well being in the psyche. These are moral choices. This is somewhat influenced by Plato.

edit: Actually screw Plato and Socrates, I'm going to steal from Kant here. Kant says that the moral choice is the one that if you were to make a rule of your behaviour for all to follow then that rule would be sound. I kinda forget actually. There are many opinions. For instance Utilitarians argue that the greatest good for the greatest number is moral.

edit2- and yes the utilitarians and Kant run into trouble with thought problems such as saving one life versus saving three lives if the decision has to be made to change the death of one into the death of three.

The best answer comes from Nietzsche imo which is that the moral thing to do is live dangerously. For why? because God is dead and man is to superman what ape is to man, and one must cross. But as Tom Robbins said "advice is (only) a form of nostalgia." There's also Kierkegaard who says that the bible is right with this one truism "love thy neighbour."

So in conclusion, morality is not a failure but rather a question answered quite well but not studied by many.

there's also music in this equation


also love this song
Like a bird on a wire, like a drunk in some midnight choir I have tried in my way to be free
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-03-25 09:42:38
March 25 2016 08:39 GMT
#23
On March 25 2016 14:41 imgbaby wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 13:30 TwoTrickPony wrote:
I don't really have any answers to this but I did get a question when reading what you wrote.

My question was what does moral mean? I looked it up in a dictionary but to be frank, the definition I got didn't clear anything up for me.

Also from Djzapz comments it came to mind that maybe objective and subjective are not so mutually exclusive? (people do live in reality after all, so even if we all experience it differently it is still within a shared whole).

I do agree that very often problems get "solved" in a way that doesn't solve them for very long. Pretty disturbing to think about sometimes.

Have you been struggling with this at all lately firehand101? I often think about this stuff when I have to go through it so mostly just wondering.


Great question. I think the moral decision is the one that brings joy and fairness, equality and freedom to all. Though each culture has its own ideas, and these are often subjective. This is cultural relativism


To answer DualTrickPony's question through imgbaby; morality is exactly the opposite of how he defined it.

A moral enforcement stems from immorality. There has to be a supreme power (The State/King/Ruler) that makes a rule which benefits them. To say 'Don't kill' is a moral rule, which can only be enforced by a ruling power which USED killing to gain the power they have, and now wish to protect themselves from violence USING violence (police etc). Killing itself is neither good or bad. Morality is just a tool for higher powers to enforce discipline and control over lower ones

Nietzsche's answer I think is to find your own morality, your own good and bad. Morality is neither good nor bad, it just IS. Morality is making a distinction between good and bad, and we ALL do this to some extent (ie moving your hand away from a hot stove, moving away from pain and into pleasure is your own morality)

I think the human race is at the stage now where they should not condemn morality (which I sort of did in the title, a mistake of mine I'll admit ) nor embrace and follow it completely, but UNDERSTAND what morality is and what it means. The state enforces 'don't kill each other' laws and 'don't rape each other laws'. It's time not to abandon these rules nor follow them completely, but to understand them. I have a very strong suspicion that once we start understanding morality, punishment etc, we will no longer HAVE THE NEED to kill and rape each other, because we understand ourselves. We are all one species, one race, one team, and it's high time we started acting like one.

In the same way rape is neither good nor bad, it just exists and we have to understand it, we have to understand morality also
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
TwoTrickPony
Profile Blog Joined November 2015
30 Posts
March 25 2016 15:06 GMT
#24
On March 25 2016 17:39 firehand101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 14:41 imgbaby wrote:
On March 25 2016 13:30 TwoTrickPony wrote:
I don't really have any answers to this but I did get a question when reading what you wrote.

My question was what does moral mean? I looked it up in a dictionary but to be frank, the definition I got didn't clear anything up for me.

Also from Djzapz comments it came to mind that maybe objective and subjective are not so mutually exclusive? (people do live in reality after all, so even if we all experience it differently it is still within a shared whole).

I do agree that very often problems get "solved" in a way that doesn't solve them for very long. Pretty disturbing to think about sometimes.

Have you been struggling with this at all lately firehand101? I often think about this stuff when I have to go through it so mostly just wondering.


Great question. I think the moral decision is the one that brings joy and fairness, equality and freedom to all. Though each culture has its own ideas, and these are often subjective. This is cultural relativism


To answer DualTrickPony's question through imgbaby; morality is exactly the opposite of how he defined it.

A moral enforcement stems from immorality. There has to be a supreme power (The State/King/Ruler) that makes a rule which benefits them. To say 'Don't kill' is a moral rule, which can only be enforced by a ruling power which USED killing to gain the power they have, and now wish to protect themselves from violence USING violence (police etc). Killing itself is neither good or bad. Morality is just a tool for higher powers to enforce discipline and control over lower ones

Nietzsche's answer I think is to find your own morality, your own good and bad. Morality is neither good nor bad, it just IS. Morality is making a distinction between good and bad, and we ALL do this to some extent (ie moving your hand away from a hot stove, moving away from pain and into pleasure is your own morality)

I think the human race is at the stage now where they should not condemn morality (which I sort of did in the title, a mistake of mine I'll admit ) nor embrace and follow it completely, but UNDERSTAND what morality is and what it means. The state enforces 'don't kill each other' laws and 'don't rape each other laws'. It's time not to abandon these rules nor follow them completely, but to understand them. I have a very strong suspicion that once we start understanding morality, punishment etc, we will no longer HAVE THE NEED to kill and rape each other, because we understand ourselves. We are all one species, one race, one team, and it's high time we started acting like one.

In the same way rape is neither good nor bad, it just exists and we have to understand it, we have to understand morality also


Wow, thanks for the answers.

Hmm, imgbaby's answer sounds more like where it begins and firehand101's answer is more about where it ended up.

Interestingly neither answer seems to indicate that morals are personal but instead are collective. That does seem like how it's most often talked about.

I agree very strongly that moral enforcement tends to end up becoming very abusive and exploited by the powerful.
firehand101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Australia3152 Posts
March 25 2016 20:11 GMT
#25
On March 26 2016 00:06 TwoTrickPony wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 25 2016 17:39 firehand101 wrote:
On March 25 2016 14:41 imgbaby wrote:
On March 25 2016 13:30 TwoTrickPony wrote:
I don't really have any answers to this but I did get a question when reading what you wrote.

My question was what does moral mean? I looked it up in a dictionary but to be frank, the definition I got didn't clear anything up for me.

Also from Djzapz comments it came to mind that maybe objective and subjective are not so mutually exclusive? (people do live in reality after all, so even if we all experience it differently it is still within a shared whole).

I do agree that very often problems get "solved" in a way that doesn't solve them for very long. Pretty disturbing to think about sometimes.

Have you been struggling with this at all lately firehand101? I often think about this stuff when I have to go through it so mostly just wondering.


Great question. I think the moral decision is the one that brings joy and fairness, equality and freedom to all. Though each culture has its own ideas, and these are often subjective. This is cultural relativism


To answer DualTrickPony's question through imgbaby; morality is exactly the opposite of how he defined it.

A moral enforcement stems from immorality. There has to be a supreme power (The State/King/Ruler) that makes a rule which benefits them. To say 'Don't kill' is a moral rule, which can only be enforced by a ruling power which USED killing to gain the power they have, and now wish to protect themselves from violence USING violence (police etc). Killing itself is neither good or bad. Morality is just a tool for higher powers to enforce discipline and control over lower ones

Nietzsche's answer I think is to find your own morality, your own good and bad. Morality is neither good nor bad, it just IS. Morality is making a distinction between good and bad, and we ALL do this to some extent (ie moving your hand away from a hot stove, moving away from pain and into pleasure is your own morality)

I think the human race is at the stage now where they should not condemn morality (which I sort of did in the title, a mistake of mine I'll admit ) nor embrace and follow it completely, but UNDERSTAND what morality is and what it means. The state enforces 'don't kill each other' laws and 'don't rape each other laws'. It's time not to abandon these rules nor follow them completely, but to understand them. I have a very strong suspicion that once we start understanding morality, punishment etc, we will no longer HAVE THE NEED to kill and rape each other, because we understand ourselves. We are all one species, one race, one team, and it's high time we started acting like one.

In the same way rape is neither good nor bad, it just exists and we have to understand it, we have to understand morality also


Wow, thanks for the answers.

Hmm, imgbaby's answer sounds more like where it begins and firehand101's answer is more about where it ended up.

Interestingly neither answer seems to indicate that morals are personal but instead are collective. That does seem like how it's most often talked about.

I agree very strongly that moral enforcement tends to end up becoming very abusive and exploited by the powerful.


Actually you have it the opposite way as well! haha My definition is how it STARTS, how a supreme power uses it to enforce control over lesser ones. Equality/Freedom for all is where it ENDS, where the ruling power eventually submits to the rule it proposed itself. So eventually the rule 'no violence' would apply to the state as well; this is where Nietzsche saw that morality ended, and was horrified by this scenario!

Morality is personal AND collective. You have your own personal morality, your own good and bad, and then there is good and bad for the collective/society which benefits them also.

A perfect world would have you following your own morality to benefit yourself and grow as a person WHILE complying with the state to benefit them also.
The opinions expressed by our users do not reflect the official position of TeamLiquid.net or its staff.
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 29m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 18
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 5699
Nal_rA 749
Zeus 657
Leta 270
PianO 256
JulyZerg 202
ToSsGirL 96
soO 81
GoRush 59
NaDa 52
[ Show more ]
Mind 30
NotJumperer 14
Dota 2
ODPixel409
XcaliburYe344
League of Legends
JimRising 647
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1736
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor187
Other Games
SortOf101
Trikslyr29
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick32941
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2176
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
1h 29m
SHIN vs Clem
Cure vs TBD
FEL
3h 29m
FEL
7h 29m
Gerald vs PAPI
Spirit vs ArT
CSO Cup
7h 29m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
9h 29m
Bonyth vs QiaoGege
Dewalt vs Fengzi
Hawk vs Zhanhun
Sziky vs Mihu
Mihu vs QiaoGege
Zhanhun vs Sziky
Fengzi vs Hawk
DaveTesta Events
9h 29m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 1h
RSL Revival
1d 1h
Classic vs TBD
FEL
1d 6h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 9h
Bonyth vs Dewalt
QiaoGege vs Dewalt
Hawk vs Bonyth
Sziky vs Fengzi
Mihu vs Zhanhun
QiaoGege vs Zhanhun
Fengzi vs Mihu
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV European League
3 days
PiGosaur Monday
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
HSC XXVII
NC Random Cup

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Acropolis #3
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
2025 ACS Season 2: Qualifier
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Championship of Russia 2025
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
SEL Season 2 Championship
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.