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I find it actually funny all of you here are trying to say how easy it is to set up a tournament like it's nothing.
You all realize how tough it is right? No one is Valve, or Blizzard, or Riot. To assume all companies and match that kind of quality is just stupid. The best anyone can do is their best and provide what they can.
Then there is cost and more importantly how much they earn. Look people, we are ALL fans here. Thinking that all tournaments earn money back right away is dumb.
Look at MLG when they dumped Halo, the game that made MLG, well MLG. And what did Sundance say? During those years, they were barely making their money back. It's different now when they picked up other games and stepped away from Halo.
While EE's points is badly constructed, he is right on some parts, but also asking for too much on others. NS for his personality etc is also right. Respect pros opinion, and stop acting like you are all business majors and know what's going on behind the scenes.
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He should have accurately rewrote EEs complain, I read the blog yesterday, NS amplifies and deforms which ruins his point. He also does not state anything else, it's just a formalised "stfu". It makes him sound dumb and whiny. The fact people brings up hypocrisy issue in comments make things even worse for his point.
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The way he worded things sounded very culturally ingrained
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On April 30 2015 14:36 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 13:47 sang wrote: Disregarding NS' own personal shortcomings, he is somewhat right in that a lot of ways that players are big prima donas nowadays.
Remember back to the days of CPL and other tournaments in early 2000s? Metal chairs, flat wooden desks, people standing behind you cheering/shouting as you play. Remember even some of the early MLG's back in 2010-2011 when it was a big deal they had a "players lounge" with 10 computers set aside? Now, players want everything. What your venue doesn't have 50/50 wifi connection? Horrible. No backstage lounge with couches, bean bags and TVs? Terrible. Matches delayed 30 minutes? Worst admins ever.
Some of it isn't completely the players' fault — for the newer ones especially its how they've been conditioned. For others though, its downright selfish and completely illogical to expect TI level service at every event. Not comparable. Why? There is a lot more money involved now. A lot more. Who actually cares about back in the days? This isn't back in the days, this is now. This is no longer just a gaming get together where a couple of nerds get together to see who is the best. It has now become a professional style event where people make this THEIR CAREER. There are some big money sponsors involved now and there is quite a lot of cash moneys flowing hands. It's getting the point where you expect a minimum level of service to the players because it's SUPPOSED to be a professional event. Granted, EE sometimes bitches about things that aren't important, but most of the time he actually has legitimate complaints that should be rectified for any tournament with that high of a prize pool. Sound cancellation is an ABSOLUTE priority that no tournament seems to understand. The translation issue is absolutely absurd by this point. Even a relatively minor issue like the private wash room actually has legitimacy behind it. Pro players on high tier teams are getting to the point where they can't leave their areas without being hounded by fifty some odd people just to go take a piss. How would you like it if you have a huge stressful event coming up and people just aren't going to leave you alone? Even if you think they owe it to the fans to be at the fan's "beck and call" 24/7 I don't think you really want to talk to a guy that straight blows you off because he simply has other more important things on his mind. That's not fun for anyone. People rag on these pro gamers for bitching about "living the dream" but it honestly seems like it would be stressful as all hell. This is a job, one they have chosen yes, but with that there comes a level of professionalism that you expect from the events you attend. Most of the time EE's complaints seem pretty legitimate considering there are hundreds of thousands of people watching and probably at least that much money floating around. That being said NS had some decent points too. The scene is still growing etc etc...but really some sort of minor regulation needs to start happening. When this much money is on the line simple things like sound issues, computer issues/backups, and translators really need to be taken care of. There is just no excuse for that any more.
Think you misunderstood me. This isn't a call out for players to "man up" or anything like that. Its merely an illustration of our shifting expectations that have jumped radically over the last 3-4 years.
Obviously standards are higher now and should be higher. Things like working computers, professional translators and appropriate noise cancelation are a few things that are vital - no one will argue the latter more than me because at the core this is still a competition and there needs to be an even playing field.
That being said, as I spoke to, some expectations just aren't realistic. You just aren't going to have limo service to and from events. There probably isn't going to be catered food all over. Even if an event organizer has everything perfectly planned, things will always invariably occur during the event that need to be addressed.
No one is denying organizers can do more to improve the experience, both for players and live spectators. But let's not knee jerk every time an event has one or two negative qualities. Speaking about Starladder in particular, this was the first time they've had the finals at Dreamhack. Invariably they learned a few things if they decide to host the event there again.
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On April 30 2015 20:13 sang wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 14:36 Jayme wrote:On April 30 2015 13:47 sang wrote: Disregarding NS' own personal shortcomings, he is somewhat right in that a lot of ways that players are big prima donas nowadays.
Remember back to the days of CPL and other tournaments in early 2000s? Metal chairs, flat wooden desks, people standing behind you cheering/shouting as you play. Remember even some of the early MLG's back in 2010-2011 when it was a big deal they had a "players lounge" with 10 computers set aside? Now, players want everything. What your venue doesn't have 50/50 wifi connection? Horrible. No backstage lounge with couches, bean bags and TVs? Terrible. Matches delayed 30 minutes? Worst admins ever.
Some of it isn't completely the players' fault — for the newer ones especially its how they've been conditioned. For others though, its downright selfish and completely illogical to expect TI level service at every event. Not comparable. Why? There is a lot more money involved now. A lot more. Who actually cares about back in the days? This isn't back in the days, this is now. This is no longer just a gaming get together where a couple of nerds get together to see who is the best. It has now become a professional style event where people make this THEIR CAREER. There are some big money sponsors involved now and there is quite a lot of cash moneys flowing hands. It's getting the point where you expect a minimum level of service to the players because it's SUPPOSED to be a professional event. Granted, EE sometimes bitches about things that aren't important, but most of the time he actually has legitimate complaints that should be rectified for any tournament with that high of a prize pool. Sound cancellation is an ABSOLUTE priority that no tournament seems to understand. The translation issue is absolutely absurd by this point. Even a relatively minor issue like the private wash room actually has legitimacy behind it. Pro players on high tier teams are getting to the point where they can't leave their areas without being hounded by fifty some odd people just to go take a piss. How would you like it if you have a huge stressful event coming up and people just aren't going to leave you alone? Even if you think they owe it to the fans to be at the fan's "beck and call" 24/7 I don't think you really want to talk to a guy that straight blows you off because he simply has other more important things on his mind. That's not fun for anyone. People rag on these pro gamers for bitching about "living the dream" but it honestly seems like it would be stressful as all hell. This is a job, one they have chosen yes, but with that there comes a level of professionalism that you expect from the events you attend. Most of the time EE's complaints seem pretty legitimate considering there are hundreds of thousands of people watching and probably at least that much money floating around. That being said NS had some decent points too. The scene is still growing etc etc...but really some sort of minor regulation needs to start happening. When this much money is on the line simple things like sound issues, computer issues/backups, and translators really need to be taken care of. There is just no excuse for that any more. Think you misunderstood me. This isn't a call out for players to "man up" or anything like that. Its merely an illustration of our shifting expectations that have jumped radically over the last 3-4 years. Obviously standards are higher now and should be higher. Things like working computers, professional translators and appropriate noise cancelation are a few things that are vital - no one will argue the latter more than me because at the core this is still a competition and there needs to be an even playing field. That being said, as I spoke to, some expectations just aren't realistic. You just aren't going to have limo service to and from events. There probably isn't going to be catered food all over. Even if an event organizer has everything perfectly planned, things will always invariably occur during the event that need to be addressed. No one is denying organizers can do more to improve the experience, both for players and live spectators. But let's not knee jerk every time an event has one or two negative qualities. Speaking about Starladder in particular, this was the first time they've had the finals at Dreamhack. Invariably they learned a few things if they decide to host the event there again.
Who expects limo service or catering?
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Ohhhh yissss..... BOOOOOOOOOOMMMM! in yo face! Best response ever.
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As far as I remember, most of the things EE has complained about have been very closely related to the actual competition. Sound cancelling on stage, bad computers, bad chairs, bad tables, no restrooms in the player area which makes it impossible to just think about your game if you have to go there before or between games, admins not knowing how to answer tournament related questions, no practice computers for the players, etc. I may be wrong, but at least I don't remember seeing anyone make a big fuss about the hotel they stay in, the food they have at the hotel or at the venue, the transportation between hotel and venue, having not enough sofas or tv's in the player lounge, or whatever else there may be. Certainly people have complimented if the hotel has been nice, but I haven't really seen people talk about all that "out of the game" stuff negatively. Maybe I am wrong or maybe someone has complained about all sorts of stuff behind the scenes, but this is my impression.
I don't really understand why some people continue to make it sound like EE or other players want people to carry their luggage for them, bring them fresh fruits before their chauffeur comes in to drive them to the venue in a limo. Of course some of the stuff is not that easily fixed by organizers and depends on their location, budget, etc., but still my point is that the concentration of these complaints seems to be strongly related to making sure that all the teams playing have a chance to play the best they can.
Some of the things are absolute necessities. It's hard to play without working computers, and the problems with sound cancelling may provide one team a rather unfair advantage. Admins should know what is going on with their own tournament. Having proper chairs and tables in all tournaments would be nice, but this is more of a comfort thing and not an absolute necessity unless the chairs are breaking when you sit on them or something. I would assume in most places the chairs and tables are at least bearable even if they are not good. Practice computers for players would also be ideal, but that depends a lot on space available and maybe even the budget the tournament has. Bathroom in the player area would also make things much more convenient (and possibly even help organizers keep their schedule if the players don't have to walk through a crowd to use a toilet), but is highly dependent on the location. But anyway all of these things seem to be very far away from having "unreasonable" demands like each team having their own servant who gets them foods and drinks.
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I do like some points NS has made.
Pros have their own right of picking which tournament to take. If you don't like one organizer and cannot accept what they provide, just don't attend. C9 has already turn down a lot of tournaments, and it is fine.
Yes, pros should be taken good care of during the tournaments, but most tournament organizers don't know what the teams want. Take the Chinese tournaments for instance, they are bad sometimes just because most Chinese players don't have the high maintenance like EE or some other western teams. And the organizers didn't expect some of the requirements from them and wasn't prepared for this.
I believe in most case, teams have the rights to make requirements before the tournaments starts. If it is really not acceptable, then just don't attend, leave the space open for the others. Lots of teams are look for a major tournament debut.
So teams and pros should make their own decisions about which tournaments to attend. They need to find their own place between attending enough tournaments to keep their popularity and making themselves comfortable.
Don't just go to every tournament with big prize pool and then complain, this doesn't help the scene at all. Only by this way, organizers would realize the prize pool, hats and tickets are not the only things that matter.
And plz, EE, complain next time after you win a tournament, this will make you points slightly more convincing.
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no twerkbabouska's no c9, ezpz!
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On April 30 2015 11:03 OmniEulogy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 09:56 greebosnabble wrote:On April 30 2015 09:51 FHDH wrote:On April 30 2015 09:50 greebosnabble wrote: It's not like NS is an angel when it comes to complaints either. After TI4, he claimed that MVP Phoenix looked at their private match histories on computers in the player lounge when they were afk, without proof of course. That's a much more serious unproven accusation than anything that EE's done. I'm curious how these two things are even remotely related but it's all good. He's telling EE and others to "shut up sissies", when he blamed his loss to MVP on unethical behavior without any proof. That's much worse whining than what EE's doing -- NS is a huge hypocrite. just because he's a hypocrite doesn't make him wrong. lol im glad someone knows this
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On April 30 2015 15:53 FHDH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:33 bagels21 wrote:On April 30 2015 14:57 FHDH wrote: Yeah all of the things you mentioned are definitely trivial to implement and the increase in prize pools and player salaries definitely means there is that much more money to throw around on accommodations.
Shorter EternalEnvy: I can't manage to release iconic players from my team with dignity and professionalism but I expect every tournament to have solved every difficult problem in putting on a big LAN, because that's way easier. I hope you're just trolling the guy earlier who brought up NSs screen whine because you're doing the exact same thing he did. The problem with a lot of criticism thrown EEs way right now(here, on the blog thread before Aui intervened, and especially on reddit) is that almost all the arguments are straw men that exaggerate his claims or ad hominem attacks on his personal attributes or writing style I mean it seems like you agree that these things are doable, and if that's the case why not. It would probably be best if ee did this behind closed doors but I think it's been tried. Also a large portion of the blog was just him stream of conscious discussing random stuff that was nonetheless informative (mtw drama with tobi/mouz stream rev - remember own3d lol) I disagree with the volume/pitch of a lot of whines in this category from a lot of players AND I think Eternal Envy is a poor spokesperson for professionalism AND I don't buy the accusations of hypocrisy from NS based on what people have presented. Internet Arguing 101 says "accuse people of ad hominem whenever possible" but it's not automatically invalid to discuss the messenger. Does Envy's lack of professionalism mean he can't be right about TOs? No, obviously not. But he's less likely to because he has no fucking clue what it's like trying to meet the expectations he seems to have. No clue. There is always room for improvement in TOs and criticism should go to this end (unless the organizers are straight crooked or otherwise insincere in their attempt to put on a good tournament). Some LANs have LOTS of room for improvement even with the REALITY of what people want and what can be done taken into account. But the fact that the way that this is approached is frequently wrong is true. Envy can take some fucking time to format his goddamned posts rather than just drop his words from heaven and expect that people will wade through it because he is Envy (very professional of him). It's also true that there is a rising tide of players who are getting a little sick of the prima-donna-level expectations of some of these players who take a childish attitude about shit getting fucked up. Henry Rollins: Show nested quote +Listen to the stage manager and get on stage when they tell you to. No one has time for the rock star act. None of the techs backstage care if you're David Bowie or the milkman. When you act like a jerk, they are completely unimpressed with the infantile display that you might think comes with your dubious status. They were there hours before you building the stage, and they will be there hours after you leave tearing it down. They should get your salary, and you should get theirs. Does this perfectly apply? No. But it does apply. And it's going to apply more and more without reality checks from inside the pro player community.
What a bunch of irrelevant, asinine bullshit.
NS (and in general some pro player's responses) can be summarized as - "Hey look at how hard we had, so fuck you for wanting better". Its almost on the same level as Marco demanding respect because he, quote , "went to prison.". Absolute third rate logic.
Not even one of the things Envy mentioned are directly related to his personal comfort. Every single thing goes towards directly improving the standards and quality of the tournament.
Oh look, he wants a restroom that is not swarmed by fans when he goes to the restroom during the middle of a BO3, how blue blooded of him. Witness his greed as he asks for a better practice area, because fuck practice right guys? Look at his temerity for demanding better noise cancellation and sound setup. God forbid he ask for pre-arranged, professional translators. Burn the heretic. because these things didn't exist in the past and status quo is the best way forward amirite ? Lets excuse all this incompetent, poorly planned bullshit from organizers and blame Envy instead because he isn't exactly Shakespeare when it comes to writing blogs.
Teams will be more than willing to accept a prize pool reduced by 15-20k dollars as long as these things are taken care of. They will be more than happy to.
But hey lets forgo all the logic and reasoning, because fuck Envy of course.
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What a bunch of irrelevant, asinine bullshit. K
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On May 01 2015 08:10 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On April 30 2015 15:53 FHDH wrote:On April 30 2015 15:33 bagels21 wrote:On April 30 2015 14:57 FHDH wrote: Yeah all of the things you mentioned are definitely trivial to implement and the increase in prize pools and player salaries definitely means there is that much more money to throw around on accommodations.
Shorter EternalEnvy: I can't manage to release iconic players from my team with dignity and professionalism but I expect every tournament to have solved every difficult problem in putting on a big LAN, because that's way easier. I hope you're just trolling the guy earlier who brought up NSs screen whine because you're doing the exact same thing he did. The problem with a lot of criticism thrown EEs way right now(here, on the blog thread before Aui intervened, and especially on reddit) is that almost all the arguments are straw men that exaggerate his claims or ad hominem attacks on his personal attributes or writing style I mean it seems like you agree that these things are doable, and if that's the case why not. It would probably be best if ee did this behind closed doors but I think it's been tried. Also a large portion of the blog was just him stream of conscious discussing random stuff that was nonetheless informative (mtw drama with tobi/mouz stream rev - remember own3d lol) I disagree with the volume/pitch of a lot of whines in this category from a lot of players AND I think Eternal Envy is a poor spokesperson for professionalism AND I don't buy the accusations of hypocrisy from NS based on what people have presented. Internet Arguing 101 says "accuse people of ad hominem whenever possible" but it's not automatically invalid to discuss the messenger. Does Envy's lack of professionalism mean he can't be right about TOs? No, obviously not. But he's less likely to because he has no fucking clue what it's like trying to meet the expectations he seems to have. No clue. There is always room for improvement in TOs and criticism should go to this end (unless the organizers are straight crooked or otherwise insincere in their attempt to put on a good tournament). Some LANs have LOTS of room for improvement even with the REALITY of what people want and what can be done taken into account. But the fact that the way that this is approached is frequently wrong is true. Envy can take some fucking time to format his goddamned posts rather than just drop his words from heaven and expect that people will wade through it because he is Envy (very professional of him). It's also true that there is a rising tide of players who are getting a little sick of the prima-donna-level expectations of some of these players who take a childish attitude about shit getting fucked up. Henry Rollins: Listen to the stage manager and get on stage when they tell you to. No one has time for the rock star act. None of the techs backstage care if you're David Bowie or the milkman. When you act like a jerk, they are completely unimpressed with the infantile display that you might think comes with your dubious status. They were there hours before you building the stage, and they will be there hours after you leave tearing it down. They should get your salary, and you should get theirs. Does this perfectly apply? No. But it does apply. And it's going to apply more and more without reality checks from inside the pro player community. What a bunch of irrelevant, asinine bullshit. NS (and in general some pro player's responses) can be summarized as - "Hey look at how hard we had, so fuck you for wanting better". Its almost on the same level as Marco demanding respect because he, quote , "went to prison.". Absolute third rate logic. Not even one of the things Envy mentioned are directly related to his personal comfort. Every single thing goes towards directly improving the standards and quality of the tournament. Oh look, he wants a restroom that is not swarmed by fans when he goes to the restroom during the middle of a BO3, how blue blooded of him. Witness his greed as he asks for a better practice area, because fuck practice right guys? Look at his temerity for demanding better noise cancellation and sound setup. God forbid he ask for pre-arranged, professional translators. Burn the heretic. because these things didn't exist in the past and status quo is the best way forward amirite ? Lets excuse all this incompetent, poorly planned bullshit from organizers and blame Envy instead because he isn't exactly Shakespeare when it comes to writing blogs. Teams will be more than willing to accept a prize pool reduced by 15-20k dollars as long as these things are taken care of. They will be more than happy to. But hey lets forgo all the logic and reasoning, because fuck Envy of course. if i read most of your statement, its you using 3 rate logic (just to use your words) you exaggerate everything to a level that is simply ridiculous :D
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On May 01 2015 11:04 MotherOfRunes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 08:10 Piledriver wrote:On April 30 2015 15:53 FHDH wrote:On April 30 2015 15:33 bagels21 wrote:On April 30 2015 14:57 FHDH wrote: Yeah all of the things you mentioned are definitely trivial to implement and the increase in prize pools and player salaries definitely means there is that much more money to throw around on accommodations.
Shorter EternalEnvy: I can't manage to release iconic players from my team with dignity and professionalism but I expect every tournament to have solved every difficult problem in putting on a big LAN, because that's way easier. I hope you're just trolling the guy earlier who brought up NSs screen whine because you're doing the exact same thing he did. The problem with a lot of criticism thrown EEs way right now(here, on the blog thread before Aui intervened, and especially on reddit) is that almost all the arguments are straw men that exaggerate his claims or ad hominem attacks on his personal attributes or writing style I mean it seems like you agree that these things are doable, and if that's the case why not. It would probably be best if ee did this behind closed doors but I think it's been tried. Also a large portion of the blog was just him stream of conscious discussing random stuff that was nonetheless informative (mtw drama with tobi/mouz stream rev - remember own3d lol) I disagree with the volume/pitch of a lot of whines in this category from a lot of players AND I think Eternal Envy is a poor spokesperson for professionalism AND I don't buy the accusations of hypocrisy from NS based on what people have presented. Internet Arguing 101 says "accuse people of ad hominem whenever possible" but it's not automatically invalid to discuss the messenger. Does Envy's lack of professionalism mean he can't be right about TOs? No, obviously not. But he's less likely to because he has no fucking clue what it's like trying to meet the expectations he seems to have. No clue. There is always room for improvement in TOs and criticism should go to this end (unless the organizers are straight crooked or otherwise insincere in their attempt to put on a good tournament). Some LANs have LOTS of room for improvement even with the REALITY of what people want and what can be done taken into account. But the fact that the way that this is approached is frequently wrong is true. Envy can take some fucking time to format his goddamned posts rather than just drop his words from heaven and expect that people will wade through it because he is Envy (very professional of him). It's also true that there is a rising tide of players who are getting a little sick of the prima-donna-level expectations of some of these players who take a childish attitude about shit getting fucked up. Henry Rollins: Listen to the stage manager and get on stage when they tell you to. No one has time for the rock star act. None of the techs backstage care if you're David Bowie or the milkman. When you act like a jerk, they are completely unimpressed with the infantile display that you might think comes with your dubious status. They were there hours before you building the stage, and they will be there hours after you leave tearing it down. They should get your salary, and you should get theirs. Does this perfectly apply? No. But it does apply. And it's going to apply more and more without reality checks from inside the pro player community. What a bunch of irrelevant, asinine bullshit. NS (and in general some pro player's responses) can be summarized as - "Hey look at how hard we had, so fuck you for wanting better". Its almost on the same level as Marco demanding respect because he, quote , "went to prison.". Absolute third rate logic. Not even one of the things Envy mentioned are directly related to his personal comfort. Every single thing goes towards directly improving the standards and quality of the tournament. Oh look, he wants a restroom that is not swarmed by fans when he goes to the restroom during the middle of a BO3, how blue blooded of him. Witness his greed as he asks for a better practice area, because fuck practice right guys? Look at his temerity for demanding better noise cancellation and sound setup. God forbid he ask for pre-arranged, professional translators. Burn the heretic. because these things didn't exist in the past and status quo is the best way forward amirite ? Lets excuse all this incompetent, poorly planned bullshit from organizers and blame Envy instead because he isn't exactly Shakespeare when it comes to writing blogs. Teams will be more than willing to accept a prize pool reduced by 15-20k dollars as long as these things are taken care of. They will be more than happy to. But hey lets forgo all the logic and reasoning, because fuck Envy of course. if i read most of your statement, its you using 3 rate logic (just to use your words) you exaggerate everything to a level that is simply ridiculous :D
? Wut?
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On May 01 2015 13:39 Piledriver wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 11:04 MotherOfRunes wrote:On May 01 2015 08:10 Piledriver wrote:On April 30 2015 15:53 FHDH wrote:On April 30 2015 15:33 bagels21 wrote:On April 30 2015 14:57 FHDH wrote: Yeah all of the things you mentioned are definitely trivial to implement and the increase in prize pools and player salaries definitely means there is that much more money to throw around on accommodations.
Shorter EternalEnvy: I can't manage to release iconic players from my team with dignity and professionalism but I expect every tournament to have solved every difficult problem in putting on a big LAN, because that's way easier. I hope you're just trolling the guy earlier who brought up NSs screen whine because you're doing the exact same thing he did. The problem with a lot of criticism thrown EEs way right now(here, on the blog thread before Aui intervened, and especially on reddit) is that almost all the arguments are straw men that exaggerate his claims or ad hominem attacks on his personal attributes or writing style I mean it seems like you agree that these things are doable, and if that's the case why not. It would probably be best if ee did this behind closed doors but I think it's been tried. Also a large portion of the blog was just him stream of conscious discussing random stuff that was nonetheless informative (mtw drama with tobi/mouz stream rev - remember own3d lol) I disagree with the volume/pitch of a lot of whines in this category from a lot of players AND I think Eternal Envy is a poor spokesperson for professionalism AND I don't buy the accusations of hypocrisy from NS based on what people have presented. Internet Arguing 101 says "accuse people of ad hominem whenever possible" but it's not automatically invalid to discuss the messenger. Does Envy's lack of professionalism mean he can't be right about TOs? No, obviously not. But he's less likely to because he has no fucking clue what it's like trying to meet the expectations he seems to have. No clue. There is always room for improvement in TOs and criticism should go to this end (unless the organizers are straight crooked or otherwise insincere in their attempt to put on a good tournament). Some LANs have LOTS of room for improvement even with the REALITY of what people want and what can be done taken into account. But the fact that the way that this is approached is frequently wrong is true. Envy can take some fucking time to format his goddamned posts rather than just drop his words from heaven and expect that people will wade through it because he is Envy (very professional of him). It's also true that there is a rising tide of players who are getting a little sick of the prima-donna-level expectations of some of these players who take a childish attitude about shit getting fucked up. Henry Rollins: Listen to the stage manager and get on stage when they tell you to. No one has time for the rock star act. None of the techs backstage care if you're David Bowie or the milkman. When you act like a jerk, they are completely unimpressed with the infantile display that you might think comes with your dubious status. They were there hours before you building the stage, and they will be there hours after you leave tearing it down. They should get your salary, and you should get theirs. Does this perfectly apply? No. But it does apply. And it's going to apply more and more without reality checks from inside the pro player community. What a bunch of irrelevant, asinine bullshit. NS (and in general some pro player's responses) can be summarized as - "Hey look at how hard we had, so fuck you for wanting better". Its almost on the same level as Marco demanding respect because he, quote , "went to prison.". Absolute third rate logic. Not even one of the things Envy mentioned are directly related to his personal comfort. Every single thing goes towards directly improving the standards and quality of the tournament. Oh look, he wants a restroom that is not swarmed by fans when he goes to the restroom during the middle of a BO3, how blue blooded of him. Witness his greed as he asks for a better practice area, because fuck practice right guys? Look at his temerity for demanding better noise cancellation and sound setup. God forbid he ask for pre-arranged, professional translators. Burn the heretic. because these things didn't exist in the past and status quo is the best way forward amirite ? Lets excuse all this incompetent, poorly planned bullshit from organizers and blame Envy instead because he isn't exactly Shakespeare when it comes to writing blogs. Teams will be more than willing to accept a prize pool reduced by 15-20k dollars as long as these things are taken care of. They will be more than happy to. But hey lets forgo all the logic and reasoning, because fuck Envy of course. if i read most of your statement, its you using 3 rate logic (just to use your words) you exaggerate everything to a level that is simply ridiculous :D ? Wut? Hey man the EternalEnvy fanthread is that way --->
Here we're not defending a college dropout's inability to apply basic formatting and editing to an internet forum post.
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Can't offer a reasonable argument, attack credibility instead. OK whatever floats your boat. Just don't pretend that you're actually providing a rational argument going forward.
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On May 01 2015 14:46 Piledriver wrote: Can't offer a reasonable argument, attack credibility instead. OK whatever floats your boat. Just don't pretend that you're actually providing a rational argument going forward. I was actually really inspired to argue with you after you called my post a pile of shit but then I got le tired.
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On May 01 2015 14:03 FHDH wrote: Hey man the EternalEnvy fanthread is that way --->
Here we're not defending a college dropout's inability to apply basic formatting and editing to an internet forum post. heh, first hes captain weaboo then an autist and now hes a drop out. only reason youre this hard is cos you know you'd get shit on if you tried to post that remark anywhere else (like last time. and the time before that etc).
since this is the blogs and no 1 scrolls this far ure in the clear m8 keep it up
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On May 01 2015 16:27 eX Killy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2015 14:03 FHDH wrote: Hey man the EternalEnvy fanthread is that way --->
Here we're not defending a college dropout's inability to apply basic formatting and editing to an internet forum post. heh, first hes captain weaboo then an autist and now hes a drop out. only reason youre this hard is cos you know you'd get shit on if you tried to post that remark anywhere else (like last time. and the time before that etc). since this is the blogs and no 1 scrolls this far ure in the clear m8 keep it up Lol! The Envy fans swarmed thus thread to defend their senpai and got more obnoxious as it went on and now you wanna pull my card?
Here's the thing: this board is tame as fuck. No one has "shit on me here" whatever your collective fanboism has led you to believe. But I like that the board is tame. That's why I'm here and not at NA Dota. So I'm willing to reign it in to do my part to maintain that. But when Fuccboi McGee wants to get all hot with me I reserve the right to laugh in his face.
And Envy is a weeaboo. And a college drop out who apparently never leaned to write. I just don't find it relevant to the conversation 99% of the time, because it's not.
But uh, "shit on me" about that if you like. Light up the sky with the Animesignal if you like. Hopefully you can compose a single cogent post in the ensuing melee of angry nerds.
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