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I have my doubts that making a blog out of anything is ever a reasonable thing to do, but here's to hope it will keep me motivated through pride.
So Minah is a major troll who doesn't understand that 3k bracket can be 1v5d as long as you have decent mechanics and basic understanding of heroes and items.
+ Show Spoiler [promise, you wuss] +00:16 - [GsD]Minah: we dont have to all play your way >:(
00:16 - fooreaper~: not really
00:16 - fooreaper~: actually
00:16 - fooreaper~: not really as in not really, you really don't have to
00:16 - fooreaper~: but actually
00:16 - fooreaper~: how about
00:16 - fooreaper~: i reach 5k
00:16 - fooreaper~: and you shut up
00:16 - fooreaper~: forever
00:17 - fooreaper~: and reach 5k solo yourself
00:17 - fooreaper~: promise, you wuss
00:17 - [GsD]Minah: uh, sure? I mean I'm sure if you got every pro in a room they'd disagree on how to play dota
So this is the deal: I get to 5k solo (from 3.4k) and Minah stops theorizing and starts getting better, which is supposed to bring him to 5k solo (from 3.8k) too. I didn't state how long it's supposed to take, so if he quits gaming or either of us dies before he reaches 5k, then I'll get to make fun of him for eternity.
filthy casuals
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28085 Posts
You didn't mention what MMR you are at now. Also good luck!
Also Minah is dumb if he thinks 3k can't be 1v5'd, lol. Look at Swiftending's (juice) experiment, he literally won like 98% of his games through the 3k bracket and then won like 80-90% through 4k.
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On March 06 2015 08:59 TheEmulator wrote:
You didn't mention what MMR you are at now. Also good luck!
Also Minah is dumb if he thinks 3k can't be 1v5'd, lol. Look at Swiftending's (juice) experiment, he literally won like 98% of his games through the 3k bracket and then won like 80-90% through 4k.
True. I'm 3.4k right now.
I've sent him the original thread from pd, but idk what his reaction is yet. This is not supposed to be a flaming fest or anything, but I had a long conversation with him and I felt like banging my head against a bloody wall. So, as a fellow scientist, I'll try to put up an experiment that will be good enough to serve as a proof of the idea, that theorizing about DotA at our level (he's 3.8k) is pointless when you want to raise your mmr.
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but isnt juice 5k++++ (aka 7k+) something when he 1v5'd through the 3k bracket?
still, do agree that 3k bracket is 1v5'able as a 3k player, just not at 90%+ winrate
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Swiftending is 7k. No way some 5k player can 90% 3ks
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yeah i meant to say some random bracket that is more skilled than 3k, and 5k was just randomly chosen
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The Bet? isnt that a region near china
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On March 06 2015 12:29 teddyoojo wrote:
Swiftending is 7k. No way some 5k player can 90% 3ks
thats back when ranked first got released afaik he calibrated to 5650 and then started his experiment thing... mmr got highly inflated since. there was like only 3 6ks at that time...
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On March 06 2015 12:29 teddyoojo wrote:
Swiftending is 7k. No way some 5k player can 90% 3ks
I am a semi inactive low 5k support player. I couldn't 90% it as a support player. I can 70% it as support.
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If it takes too long you can buy 5K accounts and the one who takes the lesser amount of games to go back to his previous MMR lose.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
On March 06 2015 17:03 nojok wrote:
If it takes too long you can buy 5K accounts and the one who takes the lesser amount of games to go back to his previous MMR lose.
this is scummy towards the unlucky players who get matched with them
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It is possible to do so by playing something like ta mid every game.
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On March 06 2015 19:33 DucK- wrote:
It is possible to do so by playing something like ta mid every game.
TA might be a godlike hero for low level soloqueue, but you still have to have a clue, like know how to farm; I think this is why there's so many tryhards who seem to be stuck in trench. Besides, I want to avoid spamming a single hero, since it's ultimately pointless; like I reach 5k and suddenly I can't play any other hero than TA mid, wtf
I want to develop a small pool of heroes I'll be consistent with and while all the pub heroes will be there (so TA, Slark, Storm, Jugger, etc), I'm hoping to be able to pick up other heroes relatively smoothly from there. Right now I just don't have the basic mechanics required to consistently acquire items at proper timings and teamfight accordingly. Hopefully that will change in a few weeks of solid practice.
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On March 06 2015 20:07 makmeatt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 19:33 DucK- wrote:
It is possible to do so by playing something like ta mid every game. TA might be a godlike hero for low level soloqueue, but you still have to have a clue, like know how to farm; I think this is why there's so many tryhards who seem to be stuck in trench. Besides, I want to avoid spamming a single hero, since it's ultimately pointless; like I reach 5k and suddenly I can't play any other hero than TA mid, wtf I want to develop a small pool of heroes I'll be consistent with and while all the pub heroes will be there (so TA, Slark, Storm, Jugger, etc), I'm hoping to be able to pick up other heroes relatively smoothly from there. Right now I just don't have the basic mechanics required to consistently acquire items at proper timings and teamfight accordingly. Hopefully that will change in a few weeks of solid practice.
The idea is the same. Pick strong pub heroes. It could be slark naga tinker meepo. If you're good at them, you can win most games barring gay counter picks.if you're looking to do so with random heroes, then it really luck dependent whether or not you get shit core players.
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Well, what you said he said and what we see he said are two different things. In the text you quoted, I'd have to agree with him.
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SoCal8910 Posts
On March 06 2015 15:25 Yurie wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2015 12:29 teddyoojo wrote:
Swiftending is 7k. No way some 5k player can 90% 3ks I am a semi inactive low 5k support player. I couldn't 90% it as a support player. I can 70% it as support.
you would be surprised how badly 3k players can fuck up a game with their decision making.
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I'm 3k... 
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Wait i'm confused. You yourself are 3k, and you've made a bet that you can suddenly start 1v9ing 90% of your games because...?
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On March 06 2015 17:03 nojok wrote:
If it takes too long you can buy 5K accounts and the one who takes the lesser amount of games to go back to his previous MMR lose.
You should go to hell. :-\
Supporting more people buying high MMR accounts...
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On March 08 2015 20:46 Belisarius wrote:
Wait i'm confused. You yourself are 3k, and you've made a bet that you can suddenly start 1v9ing 90% of your games because...?
Naw, it's not that exactly, I put it the wrong way. The idea is that I kept on saying that focusing on theory is the wrong way to go, since expecting anyone to follow it in this bracket is an ill-fated approach, whereas Minah kept on idealizing and analysing things while (as far as I understood it) ignoring the fact that by just playing a few heroes really well one can just blast through brackets without relying on said theory. I don't expect myself to suddenly start 1v9ing (I've already hit a brick wall, holy fuck http://www.dotabuff.com/players/24246979), but I'm hoping to get to a point where I won't have to put so much attention in mechanics soon enough. Besides, 1v9ing IS really easy, you just have to be aggressive all the time without yoloing while keeping up with cs, but for that you just have to have the basic mechanical skill to pull it off. I don't quite want to publish the entirety of the log a) because it will detour the attention from the main idea, b) because I'm not sure if Minah would be ok with that.
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I'm not sure if that's you or you're complaining about someone in your games. If it is you there's an obvious concern here.
Either way, the point is that you really don't have any grounds for saying you're correct when you haven't even done it yet.
Stuff like
[...] doesn't understand that 3k bracket can be 1v5d as long as you have decent mechanics and basic understanding of heroes and items.
and
1v9ing IS really easy, you just have to be aggressive all the time without yoloing while keeping up with cs, but for that you just have to have the basic mechanical skill to pull it off.
would carry a lot more weight if you were standing at 5k having done that on the way up. As it is, you're basically just theorycrafting the best means of improvement, which is going to vary from person to person anyway.
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On March 09 2015 08:56 Belisarius wrote:I'm not sure if that's you or you're complaining about someone in your games. If it is you there's an obvious concern here. Either way, the point is that you really don't have any grounds for saying you're correct when you haven't even done it yet. Stuff like Show nested quote +[...] doesn't understand that 3k bracket can be 1v5d as long as you have decent mechanics and basic understanding of heroes and items. and Show nested quote +1v9ing IS really easy, you just have to be aggressive all the time without yoloing while keeping up with cs, but for that you just have to have the basic mechanical skill to pull it off. would carry a lot more weight if you were standing at 5k having done that on the way up. As it is, you're basically just theorycrafting the best means of improvement, which is going to vary from person to person anyway.
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1398477
I think you haven't seen this yet.
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....swiftending is 5-7k.
Of course a massively higher rated player is able to 1v9 your bracket. That doesn't mean you can, nor does it mean it is easy.
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On March 09 2015 10:33 Belisarius wrote:
....swiftending is 5-7k.
Of course a massively higher rated player is able to 1v9 your bracket. That doesn't mean you can, nor does it mean it is easy.
If you haven't seen it, you really should! At least read the Q&A linked in the first post; I recommend watching whichever replays have been saved from oblivion too.
And obviously we have to realize that what is easy for one, might be difficult for the other. While I can't 1v9 my bracket for sure (otherwise I wouldn't be here) right now, it doesn't mean that I find it particularly hard to improve enough to be able to do so. The original point being that to get to that point I don't have to come up with some amazing ideas or next-level tactics, but merely practice hard enough to be able to consistently perform the basic ones.
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Again,
On March 09 2015 10:43 makmeatt wrote:
it doesn't mean that I find it particularly hard to improve enough to be able to do so.
You clearly do, or your storm spirit wouldn't be 30% wr as your most played hero...
I'm not taking issue with the idea that improving fundamentals and practicing a specific heropool will make you better. For some players it's probably even the fastest way up.
I'm purely taking issue with you applying swiftending's experiment to your future self and then for some reason acting like that makes you a badass.
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On March 09 2015 11:04 Belisarius wrote:
I'm purely taking issue with you applying swiftending's experiment to your future self and then for some reason acting like that makes you a badass.
Sorry for making it sound like I was then.
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On March 09 2015 08:56 Belisarius wrote:I'm not sure if that's you or you're complaining about someone in your games. If it is you there's an obvious concern here. Either way, the point is that you really don't have any grounds for saying you're correct when you haven't even done it yet. Stuff like Show nested quote +[...] doesn't understand that 3k bracket can be 1v5d as long as you have decent mechanics and basic understanding of heroes and items. and Show nested quote +1v9ing IS really easy, you just have to be aggressive all the time without yoloing while keeping up with cs, but for that you just have to have the basic mechanical skill to pull it off. would carry a lot more weight if you were standing at 5k having done that on the way up. As it is, you're basically just theorycrafting the best means of improvement, which is going to vary from person to person anyway.
Why does he has to have to be 5k to say that? The first quote is saying that 1v5 in 3k is possible if you are good enough. He then uses Juice's experiment as an example of it being done. If the OP was 5k, this bet won't exist in the first place.
Improving as a player and improving MMR are related but not the exact same thing. OP's methodology is much better than his friend's because he is doing things that are largely under his own control which will likely have a higher impact on the result. The friend's methodology is reliant on the action and mindset of others who are completely random. Even if the friend is right 100% of the time in his analysis and strategies, people can execute differently from expected.
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Really liked the joindota post, especially the Q&A part.
Don't think OP will make it to 5k anytime soon. Lifetime bet thou, so he should make it eventually.
(That being said, I think OP would improve even quicker if he got over this silly grudge)
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Weren't there a couple other blog posts about 3ks hitting 5k in a matter of weeks or a few months? If they can do you, you can too. Good luck OP
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EPT
