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Hey, people!
And no, I am not trying to compare both sports, it's not apples vs oranges here.
It's just that I have been doing mt lately. Like 3-4 times a week, including some training for conditioning and core strength. It's awesome but that's not my point.
Here's the story...
My brother and a friend of his are doing boxing, going together to training, sparring and such, feeling good about themselves. We got to spar together a few days back and that's what I want to tell here.
We did the same thing like two - three months ago. I got my ass kicked then, my bro even dropped me on the ground with a right hook. I wanted another reality check now.
The first time I had literally no idea what am I doing, at least defense - wise. I was holding my head high, my arms were not tight, I was letting too many shots in. I am still having trouble keeping posture in a session and I am consciously trying to keep the proper form, it's not yet a habit for me. A thing that helped me keep my chin down was training with a small ball between my chin and my chest, always trying to keep it there while punching the bag. Also, in the mean time I've been watching videos on defense and attacks too, trying to learn new tactics and implement them if they are simple enough for me. In mt defense is different than boxing in the way that we have to check kicks and watch for elbows and knees. We also don't usually duck to punches because it exposes us to knees and kicks to the head. In mt you just move your head and evade and block punches. Pretty much only advanced fighters do ducking and flashy feet moves.
So my plan for this sparring was to play mostly defensively and take as little damage as possible. We agreed not to go ape shit insane power on each other but a hook from a 86 kg dude is still nasty, even it is like 30 - 40 % power. We agreed to do 7 rounds, pure boxing style. I don't watch and follow boxing and I have no idea how a match goes. In mt it's usually quiet two rounds and then fighters are literally in each other's faces for three rounds until a KO or the time expires. It turned out boxing is different.
First the stance. I was in the mt stance where I am almost square against my opponent, the feet a step apart, the back foot at about 45 angle relative to the front one, with the front foot tapping the ground, ready to check a kick or throw a kick or a knee. My brother was in a boxing stance, his feet were much wider, showing only his side to me. I thought "Fuck it, let's go!". So I just blocked punches and went in him, then pushed him. That was the first round, I did no punches. In the rest he told me it's not fun like this. So then I started punching. I was actively paying attention to my stance and trying to keep my arms tight and throw some jabs and/or left hooks. This was one of the most useful things I learned and it's so simple. When I see the opponent is preparing an attack, he starts with a jab usually. So I time my jab around the time his jab comes. But I cover my face with my right hand so I don't get hit/off balanced. I don't care if I land my jab in his face or his shoulder. The point is that his plan is ruined. If he throws a right after the jab, it's pretty weak now cause he is off balance from my jab. And he has to start again to prepare an attack. It turned out boxing is a game of position. My brother was hopping around me all the time, trying to find an opening. I was just pivoting and countering with this aforementioned method (it's called frame defense FYI). It seems to be devastating to a rookie boxer. My brother had no idea what to do. He was so frustrated at a point he didn't even keep his hands high and got awarded a few punches. As a result I landed like 20 jabs in his face. Not to count the body uppercuts he took and the hooks. I beat the crap out of him, pure boxing. Had I been allowed to kick, I think he would've quit after two rounds. I took some hits of course but nothing heavy. And not one in the face. I was happy with myself. In one of the rests I told him what he needs to do to counter me but he was tilted I think, so he didn't use any advice.
Here's the actual video. In the video the coach says he's attacking the shoulder but I thought I'd go for their faces. Turned out great. At least vs a rookie boxer, a more experienced one would know to go with some uppercuts or something. I will try it in actual MT sparring next week, see how that goes.
+ Show Spoiler +
All in all, I am happy I've improved my defense and that I've learned a new useful and quite simple tool to add to my abilities. This sport is a never ending journey though so I will just keep training and trying to improve mentally and physically. Gl hf!
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Very very cool dude 
i practised muay thai too for about a year. When we started sparring with the guys who were already having matches, I took a kick to the nose and quit all together before having my wonderful face ruined 
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It sounds like you're more committed to MT than your brother is to Boxing. Coming as someone who trained MT for 5 years I'd say this:
Against an opponent of equal skill you will be at a disadvantage if you continue to just go with Western Boxing rule sets, because your opponent will have exclusively trained for Boxing and you have trained for Muay Thai. Modern Muay Thai already uses techniques for hooks from Western Boxing because they deliver stronger punches , so you're already learning a lot of the key needs for Boxing, however stances and defense are somewhat different and deciding when to use your stamina is very different, as you analyzed yourself as well.
However congratulations and keep training, Muay Thai is a great sport and really keeps your whole body in great shape and gives you great physical awareness!
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I do Western Boxing, and have dabbled in Muay Thai for a bit. My personal opinion on two high leveled people of equal skill and physique: it's pretty hard to approach a MT practitioner effectively from any range as a boxer; (not saying it's impossible); there's a reason why the art itself is called the art of eight limbs. You have tools for long range, mid range, short, and trapping, as well as different verticalities, from the leg to head. It's kind of why I want to practice a grappling art to complement my boxing; probably wrestling or something.
And to rookie/amateur level fighters, yeah, it's going to be disorienting and confusing when you're suddenly up against a technique that is completely outside your art/sport.
Keep updating on your muay thai.
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Oh, it's becoming a nice discussion. I was expecting a ton of crap so it's refreshing to read informed opinions.
Sitinte, where I train Muay Thai, there are also classes for Brazilian jiu jitsu. It seems to be amazingly effective form of self defense, in my un-educated opinion, far better than pure wrestling. I think I will do some of it at some point, if ever Muay Thai becomes a bit boring or repetitive. You might want to try BJJ out.
DarkNetHunter, yeah, I think I am deeply committed in the sport. I am now 31 years old, I did some bodybuilding for an year and a half. While it helped me look good and established some food culture in me, it's totally unpractical in a real life violent situation. Yeah, I might have 38 cm biceps and 12% body fat and squat 160 kg but that doesn't stop a 60 kg dude from ramming an elbow and splattering my face, does it? So in the last summer I thought I'd try some contact sport. Muay Thai was the obvious choice for me as I like kicking stuff and also the coaches are the bomb, one of them is a world amateur champion 2013 and both are supportive and attentive. Since then I am enjoyed in every session, be it shadow boxing, heavy bag or a drill with a partner. It's also hard to get good, this challenge is what makes it so exciting for me.
All in all, any contact sport gets my thumbs up, be it boxing, karate, taekwondo or whatever.
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Ideally, I'd want a combination of them. The problem with grappling is that the three biggest ones right now, judo, BJJ and wrestling (freestyle and Greco-Rroman), is that they're all very specialized towards a certain aspect, and leaving holes in other areas (especially since nowadays, competitions ban a lot of techniques).
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Frame defense is a bitch to get past. I sparred with some of my Muay Thai homies once upon a time and oh god it was literally like they had 8 arms lol. It took a lot of mind games and baiting out a hard punch so I could take them down, I couldn't compare to them standing. And those leg kicks HURT.
One thing though, you probably already know this, but something a mentor of mine told me once upon a time that has saved me soooooooooooooo much headache is to watch two things: their shoulders, and their knees. I watch shoulder and thigh, since I can see the altitude changes of the hips that way, and that is really good for me. Even if someone is feinting, if someone feints with shoulder motion, it puts body weight behind it, and is too slow to truly be a feint imo; they're just giving themselves up. Their shoulder will usually tell you what they're really doing. And the thigh motion; when you see them plant 90% of their weight on one foot, a kick is coming from the other one. Where? That's what watching the knee is for! There's a really subtle difference between bouncing onto one foot (there is 60% of the weight in that foot and the other 40 is in the air in the other foot) and planting, and you'll get a feel for the difference. Kicks are really easy to see coming, and if it's an off-balanced one, well, have fun with the singlelegs.
You probably already know that, but I have to make sure because that information was something I wished someone told me right from the getgo
Nice blog! Keep up the good work! ^^
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I enjoyed reading this. I have always been fascinated by the idea of having 2 different discipline compete. It is probably the reason why I love watching MMA matches. First of, kudos to you for stepping out of your comfort zone and sparring with someone with a broader boxing experience. As a Muay Thai practitioner you must have had a hard time sparring with a boxer but for sure, he will feel the same way if he fought you at MT. And to top it off, you even matched your bro in his own game. Just don't forget to learn about a good hip rotation. It will help you land more powerful strikes.
You are one step up from being a mixed martial artist. Learn one grappling martial art and you are good to go. By the way, where did you train MT? I trained boxing for a VERY short period of time and I'd like to know different martial arts (stand up fighting for that matter). Keep us up to speed on your progress, bro. On a side note, here's a source of boxing news in case you'd be interested. I contribute posts there from time to time so as someone who is exploring a totally different combat sport, I hope you'll find them useful.
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Jase01, I am training MT in Sofia, Bulgaria. The gym is called VIP ring and the trainers are excellent. One of them was an amateur MT champion last year, he went pro after that. But being a skilled practitioner is not always enough for a trainer. I see that the guys are good trainers because they usually train with us, watch the group and when someone is severely off the technique, they come in and explain what's wrong. When people are sparring, the trainers are advising both of the guys, always go for safe practice, always encouraging. It's a fantastic atmosphere, I've never thought I might find a place where it's so fun to train. I love it. And it's disgustingly cheap, like EUR 4 for a session with probably the best trainers in the country.
As for MMA, I don't like it. I watched some fights from the greats, like GSP and Fedor and it's not my style. I see that's it's challenging and hard but what repulses me is the grappling part of it. I see two people who are on top of each other for three minutes. I don't understand what is it that they are doing so I don't like it. If I ever become interested and try to learn some techniques from BJJ I might see why other people find it exciting.
But I don't even like regular kickboxing, whenever I watch some Glory fight, I see a 5-6 punch combo and I can't help but think "Wow, dude, try to do this in a MT fight, you're so going to get your face splattered with an elbow, it's not going to be pretty, 6 punches, come on, even a noob like me can find an opening in a 6 punch combo!".
And yeah, hip rotation is the stuff. One of the guys we train with has a cousin. The cousin is a kid, like 16-17, and he is also some international MT champion from I don't know which federation. Anyway, the point is that this kid is always loading his hip when punching and it's ridiculous how strong his kick are. Say you do a jab, to do it properly you have to twist the entire body to the left. This loads the hip as a spring for a stronger right roundhouse kick, be it low kick or a mid kick. Because the kick comes after a load from the jab it't times harder than just a regular roundhouse. When I saw this live I was like "Wow, I hope I never take that in my ribs or thigh...". Though I probably will be taking a lot of them, that's the nature of the sport.
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As for MMA, yeah I do not know BJJ as well so I don't really know what's going on when fighters are on the ground. As a guy who prefers stand up sport, I prefer MMA fighter on their feet rather than on the ground. But I admire them for the fact that they actually practice multiple techniques from different disciplines. As for MT, yeah I can't imagine myself getting hit with an elbow or knee in the face.. Taking a punch is one thing, taking hits from those mean joints is another. Also for MT, how painful it is in the shin bone whenever you throw nasty kicks? I always wonder. haha!
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Well, whenever we spar, the trainer says never to do elbows against the opponent because they go through even the tightest guard. On the bag we can bat shit insane with elbows though. Also, the trainer says never to go full power, at most we try to go for like 50%, it's like training for technique and not to win a fight. And always safety, safety, safety. I go to a sparring with 14 oz gloves, mouth piece, ankle protectors, shin guards, knee protectors. Only thing I lack is the head guard...
The kicks... We train with shin guards and we don't go full power on kicks so the shin block is not bad. It's two sets of protectors hitting each other and not a full power kick so checks are not a problem. But I've been hit in the ribs with a roundhouse kick. Even with a protector and without the proper technique (let's face it, we're all noobs and lack skill), not at full power, the kick is a devastating tool. Same goes for the low kicks. If I fail to check it, the pain in the thigh is sharp and lasting. I am not conditioned to take kicks though.
One of the reasons I started MT (besides that when I watched Dragonball Z last summer, I badly wanted to learn a fighting sport) was for eventual self defense. I am always advised that if I am in a fist fight, to get into the guard and get close to the opponent and elbow him in the face or knee in the belly. Low kicks are also doable. Punches are not advisable because our hands are not conditioned for that. We train with gloves and wraps and those things help you to protect your wrists and the small joints in the fingers. But without them, a small bone can easily break, there are like 28 bones in the fingers and the wrist, all of whom are gentle and fragile. Anyway, my point is that I don't have a goal to condition my thighs and ribs to withstand damage because if I ever fight on 100%, it will be in a fist fight and in them people tend to swing for the head, not to do roundhouse kicks.
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I am learning a lot from you, bro. I will be in touch for more queries.
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EPT
