EPTMy Perspective on ＤｏｔＡ ２ - Page 5
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Shaella
United States14827 Posts
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andyrau
13015 Posts
On December 16 2014 16:08 FiWiFaKi wrote: Also another thing of note, for your example of the Superbowl... If possible, another organization would run in, and run a huge american football tournament, but this doesn't happen. Why? Because the teams and players are bound by contracts to only play in this league. Right now, no organization is large enough to say "Hey, to play in our league, you must sign an exclusivity agreement to play in these leagues only". Thus it's really a free for all, and each different organizer is trying to milk what we have right now as much as possible, with no consideration of where we will be at in 2 or 3 years. no they wouldn't even if it's for profit. actually, especially if it's for profit. the demand isn't inelastic if it was then we'd have a super bowl every 3 months but we don't. valve knows this too or else we'd have an international every month with a lower prize pool. please don't act dense. | ||
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goody153
44019 Posts
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On December 16 2014 16:20 andyrau wrote: no they wouldn't even if it's for profit. actually, especially if it's for profit. the demand isn't inelastic if it was then we'd have a super bowl every 3 months but we don't. valve knows this too or else we'd have an international every month with a lower prize pool. please don't act dense. Demand has a higher elasticity long term, but short-term, is quite inelastic, especially for free or very cheap goods. Because NFL foresee themselves running the NFL in 50 years, they will not raise profits for two years, and sabotage themselves for the 48+ others. The future of every esport is very uncertain, nobody really knows what will happen in two years, hell, 2 months before TI nobody knew what would happen with the prize pool. Everyone knows that Hockey wont magically disappear in the next 20 years however. I am not acting dense, and I hope you see some points I'm trying to make. I might not be using the nicest of speech, but nothing I say is meant to be a personal attack or anything towards you - I'm trying to express my perspective in a logical manner. | ||
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bludragen88
United States527 Posts
Edit: It's perfectly logical by the teams too, because TI could represent 80% of a team's winnings that year. So skipping a tournament doesn't just leave you out of that 10k you might win, but could decrease you chances at that million dollar payout. | ||
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Kishin2
United States7534 Posts
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molecu
347 Posts
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Caladbolg
2855 Posts
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Spicy_Curry
United States10573 Posts
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i.exies
United Kingdom28 Posts
Viewers only support high level dota when it comes to The International which is the validation of our scene. Otherwise the are paying for entertainment value. Why would Frank 2kMMR Jones would care about high level dota? he couldnt understand half of the craps happening in the fights.... What he want to see is entertainment which, sometimes, does translate to high level competition but not always. This. This is one of the BIG problems regarding casters. Frank2k should learn stuff from watching a game, he should have a grasp of why certain things are done that way and the mentally behind a play. Im not talking here about some retarded ass TI noob cast, i mean having actually analytical casters, but honestly thinking about it there are only 3 people like that in the entire scene : Merlini , Draskyl and GoDz, and maybe to some extent F4L. Why are people like LD, Zyori, Sheever, Luminous or Shane even allowed next to the mic when it comes to giving input regarding the game; what fucking insight can someone that is 4000 or LOWER MMR provide? They dont even understand the game they are casting, their mechanical knowledge sucks and if anything it fucks with lower tier players that think watching progames will help them improve. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
Envy makes a pretty compelling case, though. And it's possible that the teams, players, and even big-name tournament organizers will start pushing for changes sooner rather than later. I mean look at the fact that EG withdrew from Starladder. Seems to me like the inevitable outcome of what Envy's talking about---of course, Evil Geniuses, the Yankees of Esports, don't need the prize money as much as some of the up-and-coming teams, but still, it's money they had a real shot at winning, and they turned their nose up at it. That's EG making a statement that the scene is overcrowded, and it's one that organizations like Starladder are probably going to take pretty seriously. After all, once EG jumps ship, what's to stop their fellow tier 1 teams from following? How long can you maintain your viewership targets in that kind of situation? I'm curious to see whether any organizers try to tackle the issue, and if they do, how. | ||
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On December 16 2014 16:33 Caladbolg wrote: One thing of note: Tournament organizers have to treat players better. Don't spoil them, don't let them be divas, but get a translator for each team and fix their flights/accommodations in a way that their condition will be the best for when they play the game. Yeah, knowing people who work with performers, it sounds to me like tournaments treat their players pretty terribly. And honestly, they could do worse than spoiling the players---if you've ever glanced over a hospitality rider for even a not-that-well-known band, you've likely seen some pretty ridiculous requests (those hot meals had better be served on actual china plates). If the players then decide not to respect the tournament and miss their matches or whatever, don't invite them back. Edit: woopsies, double posted | ||
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marchex
93 Posts
So I take it from the blog, that a dota 2 players association is in the works. Great to hear. I hope Valve is in on it. With the numerous tournaments going on. I'm surprised that there aren't any up and coming new teams and players in the in the Western scene. The Chines seems to be doing a decent job of getting new blood with teams like CDEC, LV gaming. I think this qualifiers for qualifiers are to blame. Organizers should just invite established, up and coming teams, previous winners to tournaments and let new bloods prove themselves by fighting thru the grueling qualifiers. It reduces players and viewers fatigue considerably. | ||
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the`postman
United States1643 Posts
On December 16 2014 16:35 i.exies wrote: This. This is one of the BIG problems regarding casters. Frank2k should learn stuff from watching a game, he should have a grasp of why certain things are done that way and the mentally behind a play. Im not talking here about some retarded ass TI noob cast, i mean having actually analytical casters, but honestly thinking about it there are only 3 people like that in the entire scene : Merlini , Draskyl and GoDz, and maybe to some extent F4L. Why are people like LD, Zyori, Sheever, Luminous or Shane even allowed next to the mic when it comes to giving input regarding the game; what fucking insight can someone that is 4000 or LOWER MMR provide? They dont even understand the game they are casting, their mechanical knowledge sucks and if anything it fucks with lower tier players that think watching progames will help them improve. Because traditionally sports casts have a color commentator (a retired player) along with a well spoken/interesting/entertaining/whatever main commentator. The game is too young, and the pay is too bad for most retired players to consider going into casting. And how many casters do you think make more than minimum wage for their work? Someone who just got a degree in radio broadcasting isn't going to want to be a dota caster, there just simply isn't enough money in dota casting for it to draw truly talented people, so we get the caster's that put in the time and effort, but simply might not have a talent for it. | ||
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FiWiFaKi
Canada9858 Posts
On December 16 2014 16:30 molecu wrote: One thing about a centralized body, it will never work. Unless it's Valve. I agree, it's very hard to make work. But remember, Kespa achieved it in BW (albeit they took control only in their country). Looking for solutions, steps to take, compromises... It's about making the steps in the right direction for the healthiness of the game we love. It takes an effort from everyone, and while it's something that'd occur overnight, I think some form of governing body can occur. SC2 had that ESF that had limited success in a free market system, it's not impossible. | ||
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Steveling
Greece10806 Posts
Sry EE-chan but your thesis is pretty bad. | ||
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Divine-Sneaker
Denmark1225 Posts
On the other hand starcrafts WCS point system definitely has its own huge flaws, but having specific parameters to gauge whether a team gets a direct ticket to the next international one of the few ways to actually lessen the issue of teams feeling pressure to compete in every single tournament that pops up. | ||
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BatesCsC
United States99 Posts
My only regret is not being able to share this with more people. | ||
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lolnoty
United States7166 Posts
Most viewers don't give a damn about effort behind wins or losses. A small fraction of dota2 players read forums or twitter. I saw EG lose to coL and I thought EG played like shit, and coL showed promise. This is all to say that it's your reputation on the line without any excuses that most will see/know about. If you can't keep up with the schedule, that's a player's union issue with management being short-sighted and not the tournaments, yet I didn't see a paragraph highlighting that problem. The only big point I see out of all of this is the endless qualifiers and cold-war style 1-upping of longer seasons being an issue. I guess a players union might work for that. Good fucking luck having any kind of leverage in chinese tournaments with tournament prep standards. If western teams say they won't attend, they couldn't care less, and no chinese team is going to prioritize any kind of union when ACE and stricter contracts have them. | ||
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