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United States4883 Posts
I've been playing Zeratul a lot, so I thought I'd go ahead and write down some thoughts and ideas about him.
There are two main schools of thought with Zeratul. One is that he has the highest sustained damage in the game, so his auto-attacks should be upgraded to the max; the other is that his abilities are so powerful that you can burst someone down almost instantly. I tend to lean toward the ability-focused Zeratul, primarily because he is very squishy and has to attack on the front lines. It's really easy for the enemy team to just turn and focus Zeratul down immediately. Sure, life steal solves some problems with auto-attacking, but any amount of CC (stuns/roots/slows) will render the lifesteal completely useless and leave Zeratul a sitting duck. In addition, I think an ability-focused Zeratul is a lot more versatile because you can do objectives and clear minion waves a little faster as well as being relevant during team fights and 1v1 fights.
Anyway, there are tons of choices for how you build Zeratul, so I'm just going to go through the talents and explain when and where I take certain talents for my build:
Level 1:
Block: Normally I think this ability is awful. But on Zeratul, it makes a little more sense because you'll only be in combat for 2-3 seconds at a time. In addition, since I don't get any life steal, block helps a lot with keeping a high health bar without having to go back to fountain/well too much. However, I think there are some better abilities at this tier, so I tend to skip Block unless there is a Nova on the other team (cuts Hotshot in half).
Greater Cleave: At first this talent appears fairly useless, but it can net you some kills you wouldn't ordinarily be able to get as heroes are running away, etc. I tend to this ability when the enemy comp looks very mobile (Falstad, Valla, Tyreal, Anub'Arak, Muradin, Zeratul, etc., AKA anyone with escapes). This also blends in nicely with Rending Cleave later on.
Rapid Displacement: This is my go-to Level 1 talent. It just makes Zeratul a lot more effective at moving around and allows you to get in and out of team fights faster. Assuming there is no Nova or lots of mobile heroes on the other team, I almost always take this one.
Level 4:
Gathering Power: This talent is indescribably good on Zeratul. If you end up going Rending Cleave + Double Bombs, this thing is brutal. You can literally chunk down a hero's health to half almost instantly, then blink back out. I generally go for this, but I'm starting to like Sustained Anomaly more....
Sustained Anomaly: At first glance, this ability seems to be a catchall for the noob who can't hit his spikes. But on further playing with it, this ability is AMAZING. Changing Singularity Spike to an AoE attack increases its power up to 5x in team fights and it allows you to clear minion waves/mercs with surprising efficiency. Also, because it still explodes even if it doesn't hit anything, you can use it to zone out corridors or to pre-cast onto Void Prison/Devouring Maw for additional AoE damage after they pop out. It's just really good.
Vorpal Blade: I actually haven't used this one much because Sustained Anomaly and Gathering Power are so strong. However, I think there's a lot of possible utility with this, especially paired with Wormhole later on. There's the possibility of blinking in, doing your burst, then using Wormhole to jump back out, then using Vorpal Blade to jump back in, and by the time you finish auto-attacking the second time, you'll have another blink to jump out (or you can use Bolt of the Storm). It can also make it a little easier to chase in the earlier parts of the game. I don't know, I'll have to play a little more with this talent, but I think it has some potential.
Level 7:
Rending Cleave: This ability is actually amazing, in my opinion, especially when paired with Gathering Power. It basically one-shots minion waves and ends up doing a lot more damage to enemy heroes in the early/mid game. I generally pair this with Greater Cleave as well, since you can end up hitting the entire enemy team with a slash to deal the extra damage.
Shadow Spike: If I get Rapid Displacement or Block at Level 1, I tend to default to Shadow Spike. It's not an outstanding ability, but it allows you to be a little more stealthy when blinking in and out and allows you to deliver double bombs later on before being spotted. A lot of people argue that Searing Attacks gets the primary spot here, but I much prefer to just have a safer, more stable "cloak and dagger" build that won't get you killed instantly.
Level 10:
Void Prison: I always get Void Prison with this build. Like I said before, auto-attacking with Zeratul isn't great, and even with the life steal/attack speed of Shadow Assault, you generally can't kill anything before the entire team kills you first. Void Prison, however, is a much more versatile and team-centered spell. With good casting, you can split up heroes, block pathways, buy time, run away, catch people running, save allies, etc., etc. It's just a really good spell and requires a lot of time to learn where and when to use it.
Level 13:
Wormhole: Best talent, hands down. This ability is the crux of my entire playstyle. It allows me to blink in, dump all my damage and 1-2 auto attacks, then jump back out, rinse and repeat. It also allows for some clever repositioning during 1v1 fights to avoid skillshots. For instance, I have entirely dodged Tyreal's Judgement a few times with the second blink. Great ability.
Level 16:
Double Bombs: I always get this talent, as it just increases your damage output by a mega extreme, especially if you got Gathering Power or Sustained Anomaly (the splash damage is enough to justify not taking ability power). There's really no good argument for any other ability in this tier as it relates to this type of build: Executioner and Berserk are aimed toward an auto-attacking Zeratul, which, again, is not really that reliable, and Stoneskin just isn't very useful. Void Slash would ALMOST be plausible, but double bombs will always be more damage output.
Level 20:
Bolt of the Storm: Having an extra blink in your arsenal opens a lot of doors. Before having an extra blink, if you get stunned and miss the wormhole, you just die, but Bolt can get you out of it. Additionally, it also allows you to stick around for a few more autos if you choose instead of taking the wormhole back. You also have a double blink escape tool if you need it. I haven't played around with Vorpal Blade a lot, but I imagine having 4 blinks altogether might add up to something interesting.
The reason I DONT get Protective Prison is that I think it's bad to not catch your own heroes. I've used this a couple of times to save heroes from triple tap or to freeze time and allow the rest of the team to get in position to save a hero. Getting Protective Prison actually makes your ultimate worse.
Anyways, I hope everyone enjoys the short guide. I'd be up for some discussion if you agree or disagree with any of my decisions or if you think Zeratul should work another way. Let me know!
 
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Canada8160 Posts
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On November 25 2014 04:11 Jer99 wrote:
Void prison so gosu
What I find broken about it is it can save a core, so base racing a zeratul is a terrible idea.
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I wonder if being allowed to actually pick void prison would have saved my zeratul game
Probably not but that inability was very demotivating either way.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
I swear I'm gonna play Heroes with you guys eventually
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Canada13430 Posts
On November 25 2014 05:12 Zealously wrote:
I swear I'm gonna play Heroes with you guys eventually
You really should, we are improving as a group 
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this would be more insightful if you didn't fail your ult so much
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United States4883 Posts
On November 25 2014 04:32 Sn0_Man wrote:
I wonder if being allowed to actually pick void prison would have saved my zeratul game
Probably not but that inability was very demotivating either way.
Depends. In solo queue, Shadow Assault might be better just because teams are so un-coordinated at terrible at teamwork.
On November 25 2014 14:12 StorrZerg wrote:
this would be more insightful if you didn't fail your ult so much
This would be more insightful if you had 3000+ MMR, HA BURN!
GET ON MY LEVEL.
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4713 Posts
I must have gone trough the same process of trial and error as you. First I tried Zeratul as an auto-attack hero and discovered that he sucks balls at that, he doesn't do enough damage before blowing up. Ability power on the other hand deals huge damage and synergies with his ability to escape and be elusive. Overall I really like Zeratul, he is strong but has some clear weaknesses you can exploit.
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Zeratul has a bit of nuke power but also one of the highest single target attacks (not dps though). This make some talents that buff his autoattack and some talents that buff his nukes both very interesting and he is imo the best designed hero talent wise.
Most heroes have a very obvious best talent build with 1 or 2 small deviations, zeratul has many.
Tier 1 i'd also consider regeneration master. On zeratul's small health pool the regeneration is actually quite nice as it's certainly not impossible to get about 1%+ regeneration with it. Not having to go back to heal up as much is very handy for him. Not a great talent but none are in tier 1 for zeratul I think. Depends a bit on the map, on say blackheart bay getting lots of globes is easy and makes regeneration master best I think, on haunted mines not so much. Otherwise I'd be more inclined towards greater cleave than rapid displacement.
Tier 2 is a tough choice. Vampiric assault sucks as he doesn't have great dps and won't be in fights long but the rest are all interesting. Vorpal blade is personally a bit tough to use well i think but could have uses against targets that move away quickly like valla. Sustained anamoly is pretty good too like explained by the OP, i still think i prefer one of the damage boosters though.
Focussed attack shouldn't be ignored though, let's compare dps boost with gathering power.
If you attack a hero it's usually something like attack-spike-attack-cleave or something like that so focussed attack and gathering power will basically proc once each early. After that Focussed attack procs about once every 5-8 secs (depends how much you attack) and gathering power boosts you as fast as your cooldowns, 6 for cleave 12 for spike. Assume for now cleave just hits 1 target which it a decent assumption if you don't take increased area, besides you care most about damage against your main target, not the random extra damage.
Basic attack of zeratul is 47 + 13 * level,
so the first hit will do 23.5 + 6.5 * level extra.
Gathering power boosts both cleave and singularity spike, first assume the bottom case you have just the basic spells and 8% on gathering:
Cleave is 75+17*level and singularity spike 100+20*level, totalling 175 + 37.
8% = 14+2.96*level, 12% = 21+4.44*level.
Worth noting here that if in your attack you have just 1 basic attack on a hero and both your spells the focussed attack does more damage actually. That is however dependent on which talents you get later as well.
With rending cleave you get an additional 50% on cleave and double bombs lets you spike more, assuming both for example you'd be doing something like spike-attack-spike-cleave maybe.
At 8% you'd be doing 25+5.24*level extra then at 12% you'd be doing 37.50 + 7.86*level extra.
This goes from slightly better to quite a bit better than the extra damage from the focussed attack, although a fair bit of it is delayed by rending cleave and spikes nature making it more likely you overkill.
Now unfortunately it's unclear to me how attack boosting abilities stack, additively or multiplicatively. Zeratul has options for focussed attack, searing attacks and assassin's blade. I guess it's additive and it doesn't really pay much more to take these together, if multiplicative this becomes quite good. Either way if it's multiplicative then the autoattack path is the way to go I think, it would just be much more extra damage than the gathering power way even if you get in only 1 or 2 attacks and take double bombs.
Tier 3 searing attacks is fantastic if it's actually multiplicative, if additive not so much I think. Compared to rending cleave it only really starts doing more if you get in more than 2 attacks during the 5 seconds. Considering the maximum is 5 (if you're good at starting searing attacks only just before your first attack) you'd be doing about 2.5x the extra damage of rending cleave but to a single target. Also over time a bit like rending cleave but rending cleave can also do it to an entire pack. For sustained damage against a single target it does beat out the rest though the mana usage is something to consider too. On maps where you do lot's of golems like haunted mines and garden it's worth considering for the extra single target boost though.
Ultimate void prison is too good I think to pass up but in the basic attack buff mode shadow assault comes close.
Tier 5 assassin's blade, wormhole and occasionally spell shield are all worth considering. As squishy as zeratul is against some hero combinations with say falstad and nova spell shield may be neccesary unless people get so good perhaps that they know how to proc it first. Wormhole is fine and makes aggressive blinking quite nice but I'm not a huge fan. With assassin's blade it's also quite easy to just walk in for the first attack and the extra damage is quite nice on zeratul. Also the cases where you want to blink out again more often than I like i was stunned/silenced or the return point wasn't even that ideal. Generally I think it's better to have caution with the blink and save it for getting out more or just get blink at lvl 20 which you probably do anyway. Wormhole and bolt of the storm is overkill I think and bolt of the storm is for some builds the only useful choice anyway as the 'upgrade' on void prison sucks.
Tier 6 double bombs is a no brainer. Even if you have a basic attack buff build constantly attacking with berserk on would only give you 1.8 extra attack, only edging out the extra spike a little if you have searing attacks at the cost of quite a bit of mana. Similarly other talents just don't come close.
Final tier the upgrades to heroics quite stink I think. Bolt of the storm is the obvious choice then normally as fury of the storm is generally not that great and zeratul doesn't have that much dps. Bolt isn't great either thoug as you already have blink, still i recommend taking it and therefore not wormhole earlier.
Overall the workings of some talents are a bit fuzzy for me to really decide how to build zeratul.
For example supposing it's lvl 4 and you already have a kill or 2, does gathering power immediately work at full effect?
Do bonusattack talents work multiplicatively? If so focussed attack -> searing attack -> assassin's blade is probably too good to pass up and shadow assault even becomes more viable.
Overall though I think there are quite some options. Mostly these:
more attack based: block/regeneration master/rapid displacement -> focussed attack -> searing attacks -> void prison -> assassin's blade -> double bombs -> bolt of the storm
spell based: greater cleave -> gathering power -> rending cleave -> void prison -> spell shield/assassin's blade -> double bombs -> bolt of the storm
utility: block/regen master/rapid displacement -> sustained anomaly -> shadow spike -> void prison -> spell shield/assassin's blade -> double bombs -> bolt of the storm.
Personally I prefer 1 or 2. Wormhole is not my thing and sustained anomoly/shadow spike are alright but I prefer the extra damage from the other spells. I think most opponents will easily be able to skillshot/reveal you anyway if you start dropping spikes from cloak, heck most good ones see you coming anyway.
If bonusses are multiplicative attack based is too good to skip I think, even if you do just 1-2 attacks when you hop in the extra damage would outweigh the spell damage. Otherwise it's close and depends on how much gathering power stacks you expect to have, if you get to attack more etc. Maps with lots of golems i'd go towards attack based, otherwise towards spell based. Also spell based I kind of want greater cleave to make the rending cleave really good. But sometimes the other talents in tier 1 are more pivotal like regeneration master on blackheart bay or block against nova and some others like raynor and rehgar (because of the wolf form).
Overall excellent hero design though, lot's of options and only a few talents are never an option (the others in tier 6 mostly and some like burning rage, seasoned marksman etc.)
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United States4883 Posts
On November 25 2014 20:37 Markwerf wrote:
Zeratul has a bit of nuke power but also one of the highest single target attacks (not dps though). This make some talents that buff his autoattack and some talents that buff his nukes both very interesting and he is imo the best designed hero talent wise.
Most heroes have a very obvious best talent build with 1 or 2 small deviations, zeratul has many.
Tier 1 i'd also consider regeneration master. On zeratul's small health pool the regeneration is actually quite nice as it's certainly not impossible to get about 1%+ regeneration with it. Not having to go back to heal up as much is very handy for him. Not a great talent but none are in tier 1 for zeratul I think. Depends a bit on the map, on say blackheart bay getting lots of globes is easy and makes regeneration master best I think, on haunted mines not so much. Otherwise I'd be more inclined towards greater cleave than rapid displacement.
Tier 2 is a tough choice. Vampiric assault sucks as he doesn't have great dps and won't be in fights long but the rest are all interesting. Vorpal blade is personally a bit tough to use well i think but could have uses against targets that move away quickly like valla. Sustained anamoly is pretty good too like explained by the OP, i still think i prefer one of the damage boosters though.
Focussed attack shouldn't be ignored though, let's compare dps boost with gathering power.
If you attack a hero it's usually something like attack-spike-attack-cleave or something like that so focussed attack and gathering power will basically proc once each early. After that Focussed attack procs about once every 5-8 secs (depends how much you attack) and gathering power boosts you as fast as your cooldowns, 6 for cleave 12 for spike. Assume for now cleave just hits 1 target which it a decent assumption if you don't take increased area, besides you care most about damage against your main target, not the random extra damage.
Basic attack of zeratul is 47 + 13 * level,
so the first hit will do 23.5 + 6.5 * level extra.
Gathering power boosts both cleave and singularity spike, first assume the bottom case you have just the basic spells and 8% on gathering:
Cleave is 75+17*level and singularity spike 100+20*level, totalling 175 + 37.
8% = 14+2.96*level, 12% = 21+4.44*level.
Worth noting here that if in your attack you have just 1 basic attack on a hero and both your spells the focussed attack does more damage actually. That is however dependent on which talents you get later as well.
With rending cleave you get an additional 50% on cleave and double bombs lets you spike more, assuming both for example you'd be doing something like spike-attack-spike-cleave maybe.
At 8% you'd be doing 25+5.24*level extra then at 12% you'd be doing 37.50 + 7.86*level extra.
This goes from slightly better to quite a bit better than the extra damage from the focussed attack, although a fair bit of it is delayed by rending cleave and spikes nature making it more likely you overkill.
Now unfortunately it's unclear to me how attack boosting abilities stack, additively or multiplicatively. Zeratul has options for focussed attack, searing attacks and assassin's blade. I guess it's additive and it doesn't really pay much more to take these together, if multiplicative this becomes quite good. Either way if it's multiplicative then the autoattack path is the way to go I think, it would just be much more extra damage than the gathering power way even if you get in only 1 or 2 attacks and take double bombs.
Tier 3 searing attacks is fantastic if it's actually multiplicative, if additive not so much I think. Compared to rending cleave it only really starts doing more if you get in more than 2 attacks during the 5 seconds. Considering the maximum is 5 (if you're good at starting searing attacks only just before your first attack) you'd be doing about 2.5x the extra damage of rending cleave but to a single target. Also over time a bit like rending cleave but rending cleave can also do it to an entire pack. For sustained damage against a single target it does beat out the rest though the mana usage is something to consider too. On maps where you do lot's of golems like haunted mines and garden it's worth considering for the extra single target boost though.
Ultimate void prison is too good I think to pass up but in the basic attack buff mode shadow assault comes close.
Tier 5 assassin's blade, wormhole and occasionally spell shield are all worth considering. As squishy as zeratul is against some hero combinations with say falstad and nova spell shield may be neccesary unless people get so good perhaps that they know how to proc it first. Wormhole is fine and makes aggressive blinking quite nice but I'm not a huge fan. With assassin's blade it's also quite easy to just walk in for the first attack and the extra damage is quite nice on zeratul. Also the cases where you want to blink out again more often than I like i was stunned/silenced or the return point wasn't even that ideal. Generally I think it's better to have caution with the blink and save it for getting out more or just get blink at lvl 20 which you probably do anyway. Wormhole and bolt of the storm is overkill I think and bolt of the storm is for some builds the only useful choice anyway as the 'upgrade' on void prison sucks.
Tier 6 double bombs is a no brainer. Even if you have a basic attack buff build constantly attacking with berserk on would only give you 1.8 extra attack, only edging out the extra spike a little if you have searing attacks at the cost of quite a bit of mana. Similarly other talents just don't come close.
Final tier the upgrades to heroics quite stink I think. Bolt of the storm is the obvious choice then normally as fury of the storm is generally not that great and zeratul doesn't have that much dps. Bolt isn't great either thoug as you already have blink, still i recommend taking it and therefore not wormhole earlier.
Overall the workings of some talents are a bit fuzzy for me to really decide how to build zeratul.
For example supposing it's lvl 4 and you already have a kill or 2, does gathering power immediately work at full effect?
Do bonusattack talents work multiplicatively? If so focussed attack -> searing attack -> assassin's blade is probably too good to pass up and shadow assault even becomes more viable.
Overall though I think there are quite some options. Mostly these:
more attack based: block/regeneration master/rapid displacement -> focussed attack -> searing attacks -> void prison -> assassin's blade -> double bombs -> bolt of the storm
spell based: greater cleave -> gathering power -> rending cleave -> void prison -> spell shield/assassin's blade -> double bombs -> bolt of the storm
utility: block/regen master/rapid displacement -> sustained anomaly -> shadow spike -> void prison -> spell shield/assassin's blade -> double bombs -> bolt of the storm.
Personally I prefer 1 or 2. Wormhole is not my thing and sustained anomoly/shadow spike are alright but I prefer the extra damage from the other spells. I think most opponents will easily be able to skillshot/reveal you anyway if you start dropping spikes from cloak, heck most good ones see you coming anyway.
If bonusses are multiplicative attack based is too good to skip I think, even if you do just 1-2 attacks when you hop in the extra damage would outweigh the spell damage. Otherwise it's close and depends on how much gathering power stacks you expect to have, if you get to attack more etc. Maps with lots of golems i'd go towards attack based, otherwise towards spell based. Also spell based I kind of want greater cleave to make the rending cleave really good. But sometimes the other talents in tier 1 are more pivotal like regeneration master on blackheart bay or block against nova and some others like raynor and rehgar (because of the wolf form).
Overall excellent hero design though, lot's of options and only a few talents are never an option (the others in tier 6 mostly and some like burning rage, seasoned marksman etc.)
I see what you're saying, but I personally think trying to buff auto-attack Zeratul in any form is not optimal. Zeratul's biggest weakness is any kind of CC (stuns/roots/slows/silence), and if he gets hit by any of these, he's pretty useless. I have considered taking Searing Attacks before because it does help out the early game quite substantially, but in late game, I almost never even have a chance to auto-attack at all; most of the game later is based on me hitting a good void prison and doing double bomb/cleave combos before blinking back out.
I also think regeneration master is completely pointless on Zeratul, especially if you go for my playstyle, which is a lot of jumping in and out. To use my blink combo, it doesn't matter if I'm full health or half health, I'll still get it and get out before my opponent can stop me. In the early game, I do a lot of roaming and setting up ganks and drink liberally from the healing fountain, so I don't really have much of a problem with him getting low. Later on in the game, I do have to go back a little more than my allies at times, but it's okay because I'm generally doing side tasks along the way (getting coins, small plant camps, capping siege giants, etc.).
That said, I still enjoy playing auto-attack Zeratul occasionally, just for fun, because nothing is as boss as tanking a fort and taking it down solo  .
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sorry how many games did i carry you in last night
yeah you are welcome 
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EPT
