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This is a question I find myself asking more and more often as of late. PvP used to be my favourite of the 3 match-ups I played and ever since I got promoted into gold my love of the mirror has taken a massive nosedive just because of the state of the matchup in here.
I'm no mathematician so I'm not going to figure out any solid stats but it feels like 9 times out of 10 times in PvP I'm going to get cheesed or murdered by a 1 base build, it's frustrating and about as fun as being hit over the head with a sledgehammer for a week straight. It's like every Protoss in gold league has magically forgotten their N key exists and that it builds this wonderful yellow structure we call a Nexus.
I mean what is there not to love about a Nexus, it has the letter x in it, it makes probes, you can make it shoot lasers and piss Terrans off! It contains a frantic dude (if StarCrafts is to be believed) telling you don't have enough minerals or that your need more pylons.
I just don't get why PvP has deteriorated into 1 base shit lasting less than 10 minutes, why are people so reluctant to go past 10 minutes in this match-up? If someone could just enlighten me please do because I can't figure it out myself.
 
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Well...1 base builds work. People hate losing. Going for a 1 base build makes the games short and tense, and especially for players with bad macro, 1 basing is a good way to get wins. But PvP has always been about 1 base builds, even though HOTS has made FE builds more viable. Just watch some pro PvP, 1 basing is a very useful talent toi have.
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Trust me it's not just on PvP i see Terran 1basing a lot too when i was still playing. And trust me you never played ZvZ 'cauz 1base/2base is a thing i see all the way to Platinum/Diamond :p
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PvP has a lot of cheese/ 1 base builds in every single league. I guess they re just better executed now for you than when you were silver.
It was my favourite match up in BW, but now in SC2 this single MU is the reason I switched to Z.
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On June 12 2014 22:32 FFW_Rude wrote:
Trust me it's not just on PvP i see Terran 1basing a lot too when i was still playing. And trust me you never played ZvZ 'cauz 1base/2base is a thing i see all the way to Platinum/Diamond :p
As I just saw when I queued and got proxy 2 rax'd by a Terran, I'm a magnet for cheese ;-;
I dunno 1/2 base ZvZ sounds alright, might be more fun to watch than standard ZvZ or SH vs SH 
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On June 12 2014 22:38 KatatoniK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 22:32 FFW_Rude wrote:
Trust me it's not just on PvP i see Terran 1basing a lot too when i was still playing. And trust me you never played ZvZ 'cauz 1base/2base is a thing i see all the way to Platinum/Diamond :p As I just saw when I queued and got proxy 2 rax'd by a Terran, I'm a magnet for cheese ;-; I dunno 1/2 base ZvZ sounds alright, might be more fun to watch than standard ZvZ or SH vs SH
for sure! I refuse to play SH in ZvZ, even though it hands me several losses. It s just plain boring
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The gold leagues in general are cheese leagues imo. I spent about 2 years there and once I got to plat the cheese is a lot more rare. Personally I love playing against cheese, its a fast game and unique challenge. Its no fun to play against a turtle who plays super defensive until 200/200. Plus as others have said there are several good 1 base PvP builds even at the top level.
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your Country52797 Posts
On June 12 2014 22:32 FFW_Rude wrote:
Trust me it's not just on PvP i see Terran 1basing a lot too when i was still playing. And trust me you never played ZvZ 'cauz 1base/2base is a thing i see all the way to Platinum/Diamond :p
What? I see players going heavy macro in silver. o.O
PvP in gold for me is a mixed bag, I've seen some really bad cheese and some pretty bad macro.
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Bisutopia19316 Posts
I macro every game even if I get cheesesd. This applies to BW and sc2.
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scout and adapt instead of stumbling forward with your build no matter what you see and you might have a better go of things.
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PvP in gold is very easy when you get the hang of it. Always go robo and always scout very liberally with probes, zealots and observers.
When I was playing protoss a few seasons ago I had one build where I 3stalker rushed and poked while going robo and expanding. Sometimes I had to run home and get a lot of sentries, sometimes it was sensible to cancel the nexus, and sometimes I just killed them with micro, but most of the time it was time to build more stuff and go colossus.
I did it every game and had very high PvP winrate. But do whatever you find comfortable. When in colossus v colossus macro games, remember to check whether the enemy gets tempest or not. Try to zealot drop their mains when you see them pushing out etc.. 
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Even in BW, PvP was mostly 1 base play, slowly in modern times it has evolved into 2 base play, but if it gets to that point usually someone made a big mistake in timing. Sometimes the players were too far apart and so close in their executions that the defenders advantage would make attacking impossible for a few minutes, but most of the games I watched were 1v1 base.
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
I just don't get why PvP has deteriorated into 1 base shit lasting less than 10 minutes
Deteriorated? It's been like this for almost everyone since like 2010 :D
Back in WOL it was pretty famously "first person to build a nexus dies" even after 4gate era. Have fun, have the sharper openings, smartest reactions and greatest micro, and if you want to extend the game, stay back unless you can kill him. Being up a ramp will let you take engagements like killing 8 stalkers using 7 of your own, but of course keep in mind that while killing 8 stalkers using 7 is good, it's better to just have 15 stalkers through better macro-mechanics and things like probe and chrono boost timings, as well as gateway/warpgate usage etc.
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PvP is the most volatile matchup after ZvZ so it is understandable that you will get cheesed. It's so volatile that 1 more/less stalker will almost instantly decide the game if you don't have nexus cannon ready. Also like others said PvP cheese is in any league, I'm master and it happens everygame, in some cases on maps like Frost people actually build msc sentry and then a nexus at 4:10
On June 13 2014 00:23 rpddropshot wrote:
The gold leagues in general are cheese leagues imo. I spent about 2 years there and once I got to plat the cheese is a lot more rare. Personally I love playing against cheese, its a fast game and unique challenge. Its no fun to play against a turtle who plays super defensive until 200/200. Plus as others have said there are several good 1 base PvP builds even at the top level.
I think the reason is that plat is the league where you start learning build orders, timing and have a good sense of what counters what, what is good early and what is good later. I remembered when I was plat, some players know how to max out on roaches by 13:20 (good for plat league)
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On June 13 2014 01:10 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2014 22:32 FFW_Rude wrote:
Trust me it's not just on PvP i see Terran 1basing a lot too when i was still playing. And trust me you never played ZvZ 'cauz 1base/2base is a thing i see all the way to Platinum/Diamond :p What? I see players going heavy macro in silver. o.O PvP in gold for me is a mixed bag, I've seen some really bad cheese and some pretty bad macro.
Really ? Well i didn't play this season so maybe it has changed but i got a lot of that. But last season was kind of weird playing Diamond player all the time while i was still in gold. (and never got to plat). Maybe i just remember the frustration 
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On June 13 2014 04:05 BisuDagger wrote:
I macro every game even if I get cheesesd. This applies to BW and sc2.
so u play sc2 and expect a girl to marry you
that doesn't really compute
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On June 13 2014 18:13 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2014 04:05 BisuDagger wrote:
I macro every game even if I get cheesesd. This applies to BW and sc2. so u play sc2 and expect a girl to marry you that doesn't really compute
Wait what ? Bisu isn't a girl !
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oh im sorry to break your fantasies
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Maybe you should explain better what kind of cheese you're talking about. Cannon rush? Proxy gates? 4 gate? Blink? Proxy stargate?
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On June 12 2014 22:24 KatatoniK wrote:
This is a question I find myself asking more and more often as of late. PvP used to be my favourite of the 3 match-ups I played and ever since I got promoted into gold my love of the mirror has taken a massive nosedive just because of the state of the matchup in here.
I'm no mathematician so I'm not going to figure out any solid stats but it feels like 9 times out of 10 times in PvP I'm going to get cheesed or murdered by a 1 base build, it's frustrating and about as fun as being hit over the head with a sledgehammer for a week straight. It's like every Protoss in gold league has magically forgotten their N key exists and that it builds this wonderful yellow structure we call a Nexus.
I mean what is there not to love about a Nexus, it has the letter x in it, it makes probes, you can make it shoot lasers and piss Terrans off! It contains a frantic dude (if StarCrafts is to be believed) telling you don't have enough minerals or that your need more pylons.
I just don't get why PvP has deteriorated into 1 base shit lasting less than 10 minutes, why are people so reluctant to go past 10 minutes in this match-up? If someone could just enlighten me please do because I can't figure it out myself.
1 base Protoss play can be a lot of fun. Tight builds and good micro for the win. Macro PvP can often be boring especially as you look for the right engagement. That said, if you like macro play, go for it. Just start with a safe build, hold and be ahead.
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EPT
