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9070 Posts
TL's store has been fairly stagnant in recent months when it comes to getting out merchandise with our own brand. There are many factors in this - from being focused on other store related projects to just not having the right ideas. Because we don't push out products all that often we really put a lot of thought when we do work on something new. Recently I've been thinking a lot on how Esports merchandise works as a business model, why people buy what they buy and if its possible to look for models outside of Esports that can be applied successfully by us. Even if I'm doing this for about 2 years, being TL's store manager presents constant new challenges and the learning curve is still very very steep. Because of that, many of the things and projects I work on are very intuitive. I realize that has to change and our brand merchandise and store has to have a clear direction.
If we look at our record so far, our most popular product by far is the TL Hoodie - its a damn good quality hoodie too, but a big factor in its success I think is the design. The reason why the hoodie is so popular and why the TLpro jacket got a great response is in my opinion the classy everyday design that carries little to no connection with gaming. Does that mean we managed to create an understated and elegant image for our products, is that what people expect from esports apparel and want to wear? The simple conclusion may be that if the product is of great quality, has lovely everyday design and is priced reasonably fans will buy. But there's probably more to it than that and I can't help but draw some parallels with a couple of scenes with similar demographic - 18 to 34 year old males.
There's a lot to learn from world wrestling entertainment's success and marketing strategies. I've been on and off wrestling fan for probably 15 years now and every time I go back after a 2-3 years hiatus the differences in their product are very obvious. Yet, in some areas WWE has been incredibly consistent, especially when it comes to fan shirts and merchandise. Fan shirts are a huge part of WWE's business now, sure their product is more family orientated now, but they still count on the 18-34 y.o. males to buy their merchandise. WWE does a great job promoting the shirts, wrestlers have to wear them during promos, signing sessions, pretty much all the time when they are not in the ring. In Esports you cant count on that. Team and sponsor's promotion is paramount and there are very very few cases when the players are not in official setting and allowed to wear anything other than their team shirt or uniform. I can only think of streaming sessions at home. Sure you can have player focused and themed shirts and diehard' fans will probably buy, but when you don't have a setting to showcase the product constantly it's very hard to create a desirable product. Imagine we make a cool TLO shirt - it will be so much easier to promote it if TLO could wear it everywhere. Of course not having that setting in place is not a definitive reason why a TLO fan shirt can't exist - in fact I'm pretty sure its possible for such a product to be successful but creating a brand image is much harder. T-shirts are a big part of wrestler's identity and contribute a lot to the way fans see the super stars. If some guy's story line or gimmick gets a push with big crowd reaction, t-shirts are created right away following that image:
http://shop.wwe.com/CM-Punk-Best-in-the-World-T-Shirt/W03355,default,pd.html?dwvar_W03355_color=White&start=16&cgid=superstar-current-cmpunk&prefn1=category&prefv1=Authentic T-Shirt
Following CM Punk's 2011 iconic promo about being the best in the world all his shirt models have the gimmick as a part of the design. Same goes with John Cena and his "hustle, loyalty, respect" credo. Having story lines and strong personalities in Esports doesn't come from a team of creative writers though (Wax tries really hard), those have to exist naturally, but even here a bit of social media interaction and activity can make a big difference. You can easily tell MC is a wrestling fan cause he markets himself exactly like a wwe super star. In the sea of faceless korean's having a couple of guys like him and Parting creates a lot of excitement. Results contribute to the team's success and popularity, probably even team shirt sales too, but when it comes to personal merchandise winning is not nearly as important. WWE also has a very specific design approach when it comes to their shirts - they always have a big front print, big back print and even something on the shoulders. Overall their shirts are a bit ostentatious, the quality I have no doubt is very good, but design wise this is nothing like our beloved TL hoodie.
Which leads me back to the image of our products. Are understated designs preferred as consumers taste or people just don't want to be recognized as gamers so wearing a nice everyday hoodie is sort of a "little secret", which makes us feel good? I'm sure many of you at some point wearing your TL hoodie or winged pony tshirt got a silent nod of approval by a stranger at your university or on the street. Is that what this is about? Wrestling, especially in the states is probably at this point a lot more mainstream, but I'm still completely sure a lot of people have prejudice for wrestling fans as premature men with, lets put it this way, questionable taste for entertainment. So why does WWE make these loud ostentatious t-shirt and why are people buying these ? Well, if you are a big WWE fan it doesn't really matter how other people view your passion, in many ways there's pride in wearing Stone Cold t-shirt or CM punk hoodie. That sense of pride I think just doesn't exist for gamers. Of course gamers are a very diverse community with interest in a lot of different titles and genres - from minecraft to LoL CoD and SC2. It's not very likely to have a unified association with a specific game, yet seeing a guy with a LoL tshirt is probably just as likely as seeing a guy with a SC shirt.
Another parallel which is worth making is with skating and skater apparel. Skaters have a lifestyle that goes with particular apparel brands like VANS Globe DVS etc, but over the years these brands managed to reach a much bigger audience. Random guys wear VANS shirts cause its cool. Sure most of these brands used to have and sponsor pro skating teams, but by now its hard to even make that connection cause they are so much bigger than that. For the customers though this all is still bottom line a cool lifestyle. If you ask me how I want people to see Esports and gaming apparel in 10 years I will probably say I would want it to be like VANS.
Can this happen ? Will gaming ever become a lifestyle which people express with their clothing? Is there pride in wearing gaming apparel and being recognized for it ?
 
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In general it is extremely unfashionable to wear logos and graphic tees.
The 18-30 male demographic will generally care more about how they look in public, and there is a difference between the nerd and more normal cultures.
Where I'm from I don't see any wrestling shirts, but a few years ago MMA shirts were extremely popular and now they've faded to just a small core of people that you see at the bar who come for the PPV events. What is much more popular are hockey jerseys, but even then ONLY on game day.
If no-one is willing to wear a GSP shirt around when MMA and hockey are leaps and bounds bigger than esports, are you surprised that no-one wears a tl horse shirt?
Take a walk downtown and just count how many commercialized sports shirts you see.
edit: You're totally right in that its casual wear that is "our little secret."
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9070 Posts
I never had the illusion that there are somewhere 250 000 starcraft fans waiting for the right tshirt to buy and wear. Our customer base is tiny compared with traditional sports MMA or wrestling. But even if you have a small solid core of say 1000 people who would buy gaming apparel you could build something sustainable if you understand very well what they want.
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Stopped reading at WWE, please explain what abbrevations mean the first time you use them especially when theyre not gaming related. Just confusing for readers like me 
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On May 14 2014 01:04 Dumbledore wrote:Stopped reading at WWE, please explain what abbrevations mean the first time you use them especially when theyre not gaming related. Just confusing for readers like me
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=wwe
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On May 14 2014 01:04 Dumbledore wrote:Stopped reading at WWE, please explain what abbrevations mean the first time you use them especially when theyre not gaming related. Just confusing for readers like me
It literally takes you longer to write a post complaining about it than it does to look it up.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
Is this a veiled TL Sneakers announcement?
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What's secret about wearing a shirt that says TeamLiquid on it?
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On May 14 2014 02:16 Saechiis wrote:
What's secret about wearing a shirt that says TeamLiquid on it?
That hardly anyone of the general population knows what Team Liquid is
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On May 14 2014 01:59 lichter wrote:
Is this a veiled TL Sneakers announcement?
omfg, I would so buy that~!
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Johto4908 Posts
just today, i sat in my university lecture wearing a  Team ALTERNATE-Trikot, so i don't really have a problem showing it off to others. I even was at chess-tournaments with it. I also wore my SK-Hoodie lots of times, and it is in fact one of my favourite hoodies. But yes, i don't see those too often "in the wild".
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First and foremost for any clothing merchandise is it has to look good. The TL hoodie is a hoodie I'd buy even without the TL branding simply because it has great colors and design. Basically the first thought that someone has about your clothing shouldn't be "What is that?" but rather "oh that looks neat." When you just slap on something strange that leans on its reference to be interesting people think the former.
The problem with a lot of shirts and stuff is it's rather first and foremost an advertisement or some overt reference to gaming that doesn't really look great (usually ok, but not great).
Personally I'd like to see more DotA shirts in the style of:
http://imgur.com/a/HCWwH or http://sheron1030.deviantart.com/art/Dota-2-Kunkka-Wallpaper-375627418
Possibly minus the text and background or whatever fits right. That Kunkka design especially would just be perfect on a shirt (so long as it's not that odd plasticy stuff that sticks out of the shirt) because it looks compelling and interesting without even understanding the reference.
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My original MYM Grubby t-shirt is still one of my favourite shirts in my collection even after all those years.
It isn't just the MYM jersey with sponsors and "Grubby" flocked on it. It's a special design with Grubbys counterfeit and his signature (and no team/sponsor-logos at all).
It's still in the "little secret" area, as there is no connection to WC3 on it. Grubby could as well be a famous singer.
But I love it anyway because it's a Grubby t-shirt! I remember when the old clanleader of 4Kings was shitstormed because he couldn't manage to produce and sell Grubby and Tod t-shirts in the 4Kings online-shop when basically the whole (Esports-) world was begging for them. Then Grubby switched to MYM and we could finally order our shirts from Denmark :D. I was the happiest person on earth that day!
That's what sells WWE shirts and team jerseys. SUPERSTARS! And of course that's a problem as there are no real superstars in Esports anymore. That would require somebody with character to greatly influence e-sports itself AND a huge international audience for more than a year. Someone like Boxer, Grubby, Moon or HeatoN during their heyday.
The closest thing we had in SC2 was Idra during the height of his popularity. It's telling that famous SC2-casters are probably better suited to become "Superstars" than most current players.
Although, I would buy a MC shirt if it's bling-bling enough :D
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I wear the hoodie a lot particularly on TL match days. I agree that part of the appeal to me is that its a subtle enough reference and its sort of my way of supporting TL on a daily basis. Over the last few days yeh I hope people around Uni who know esports have noticed and smiled because TL vs AM is on atm in the TI Qualifiers. But I also really appreciate the fact I don't have to explain it to everybody.
I'm not sure if that is the ideal model for the store but I really like the current styling and quality of TL merch.
I also completely agree with what Logo is saying.
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get sonic to design a special TL shoe from the sinbal farm collection x_x
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I always wondered about eSports merchandise being a little easier to obtain, though never in the categories of planning and brand strategy. I tried drawing parallels to traditional sports where you can find appareal connected to fotball teams at almost every corner. I would think that it would be a big money source for teams, especially Korean PL giants, and yet it's their stuff that is the hardest and most pricey to get.
So to TL;DR: I love that TL has easy to obtain eSports stuff, wonder why some other teams, especially Korean don't, and if only I had more money I would regularly buy something.
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I have a SC2 t-shirt (it is one was sold as "official Blizzard" alongside with the game in a local shop, but is is done by some unknown to me company) and I have it as an "airport t-shirt" - I wear it almost every time I fly somewhere to increase just in case I meet a SC2 celebrity, or at least another fan. So far, no luck (evern though I spend an unhealthy portion of my life on airports)
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Understated is the way to sell currently. Nerddom is not popularly accepted, and even where it is, the games TL associates with have a more hardcore image, you're not exactly sellin a t-shirt with super mario on it or something.
Even if everyone here vocally says THEY DUN CAR WUT OTHA PEOPLEZ THINK, that is not the demographic that is shelling out 60$ for one of your hoodies. The ones that do are the ones who want something that will look good in all settings, and get that nod of appreciation of someone who recognizes the small winged horse logo, and yet they can proudly wear it at a bigger nerd event.
My personal opinion is also that MASSIVE TEXT and LOGOS/PICTURES on t-shirts and hoodies etc. look like shit, regardless of nerd or whatever other sub culture. I think a logo or text should minorly accentuate a piece of clothing, not define it.
Kinda skipped the WWE/VANS part, couldn't figure what point you were making except hoping nerds would reach that stage one day?
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If I were you I would advertise TL shirts heavily before a convention with images of people looking cool and having fun together at some such setting. Because that is about the only place people can really imagine wanting to having them. Keeping in mind that you are competing with handsome nerd shirts, which are funnier and more generally nerd-culture rather than ultra-specifically TL. It is easier for people and those around them to identify with nerd culture than TL.
I don't think TL can rely on loyalty to their site anymore, since at least it is my impression that TL is just another gaming forum/portal without anything in particular to recommend it. I used to have a really good idea of what TL was and what it wasn't, but TL's image has become very confused in my mind.
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I think your demographic's typical personality, and what they will use your apparel for, are the factors that matter the most here.
Apparel with massive logos and such involve making a MASSIVE STATEMENT ABOUT WHAT YOU REALLY FUCKING LOVE. Those clothes are worn by people that want to scream to the whole world that they love X.
The trouble is, that's not something I feel a lot of people in the nerd culture want to do. I'm not stereotyping here-there are exceptions to every rule-but I feel that, in general, people who like video games do NOT also like screaming from the rooftops about what they like, video games or not. It's also not something you should do in everyday life; clothes with large and obvious logos are often tacky and a tactless way of making a statement.
Products that are more of a comfortable understatement will see more everyday use. These products can be fashionable, while still being perfectly recognizable to those "in the know." To everyone else, though, it's just an awesome piece of clothing.
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Germany25649 Posts
Give me my TL coffee mug already 
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Northern Ireland24218 Posts
As admin of a hub for all of Ireland's SC players (well, such is the hope), a lot of the guys lose their shit whenever apparel becomes available, a bunch have hoodies and more still the t-shirt, and while we share an overarching love of SC, we're all different in aesthetic preferences etc.
Looks good + understated + signifies something that bonds folk is a good combo, had a few occasions out in Belfast bars, spotted a TL shirt and had a conversation with people previously unknown to me.
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On May 14 2014 02:21 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 02:16 Saechiis wrote:
What's secret about wearing a shirt that says TeamLiquid on it? That hardly anyone of the general population knows what Team Liquid is
bullshit, i see enough of them around here and good luck trying to make it more mainstream than what it already is.
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On May 14 2014 08:21 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 02:21 McRatyn wrote:On May 14 2014 02:16 Saechiis wrote:
What's secret about wearing a shirt that says TeamLiquid on it? That hardly anyone of the general population knows what Team Liquid is bullshit, i see enough of them around here and good luck trying to make it more mainstream than what it already is.
My bad to state that as an objective fact. From my experience my friends who are heavy into gaming, just not SC (I know very few who ever played it, let alone play actively now) have no idea about it. Never seen anything on the streets that would seem like other people do, neither
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On May 14 2014 08:09 Wombat_NI wrote:
As admin of a hub for all of Ireland's SC players (well, such is the hope), a lot of the guys lose their shit whenever apparel becomes available, a bunch have hoodies and more still the t-shirt, and while we share an overarching love of SC, we're all different in aesthetic preferences etc.
Looks good + understated + signifies something that bonds folk is a good combo, had a few occasions out in Belfast bars, spotted a TL shirt and had a conversation with people previously unknown to me.
As a fellow admin of said group I can confirm this
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Most of the people I know wear shirts of bands they listen to, sports they play or watch, game developers they like, etc. I don't know if it's just a Washington State thing or what, but they are extremely popular here. I can't remember the last time I wore a shirt that didn't have a band logo on it (albeit under my work shirt possibly). Lol.
I've been waiting for a Samsung Khan jacket to go on sale so I can flaunt that shit all over town. xD
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On May 14 2014 08:26 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 08:21 StarStruck wrote:On May 14 2014 02:21 McRatyn wrote:On May 14 2014 02:16 Saechiis wrote:
What's secret about wearing a shirt that says TeamLiquid on it? That hardly anyone of the general population knows what Team Liquid is bullshit, i see enough of them around here and good luck trying to make it more mainstream than what it already is. My bad to state that as an objective fact. From my experience my friends who are heavy into gaming, just not SC (I know very few who ever played it, let alone play actively now) have no idea about it. Never seen anything on the streets that would seem like other people do, neither
About half my friends play SC2 regularly. Everyone I know either knew what SC was before I met them, or now know. And probably 3/4 of them know what TL is and would recognize it if they saw it on a shirt. ^^
It's just different for every person/place.
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Why not introduce a polo similar to this:
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTw3P5NJK6DV_ydCm1PchixJqqmMUkNEH_fWOMU_OmsMFxHUBQ8Iw
Similar to the hoodie, people can wear it around everywhere and it will still get the TL name out there. Also, like t-shirts, it can be made in a number of colors.
People won't feel self conscious about wearing it as the logo is small and non-intrusive, unlike some of the more intense clothing like wrestling.
People still look down on / differently towards people who wear the giant branded WWE clothing, but it's the attitude of the wearer that allows them to wear it. Most casual esports fans don't have the balls to wear a giant ESPORTS VIDEO GAMES shirt around campus; that would get them mocked whereas a small logo would allow them to ignore the social stigma that comes with playing video games and explain to those who are actually interested.
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United States23455 Posts
I just bought a TL jersey and wear it all over the place. That new jacket design is so good and I'm buying one as soon as it comes out (presuming that it eventually does). I think pride in wearing gaming brands will grow in time as esports becomes more popular.
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I bought the Spirit/Swarm/Steel 3 pack when they first came out so I've had them awhile now. While the designs on the shirts are pretty cool I feel like the fabric itself doesn't feel that great. I think they felt pretty good when I first got them but now after (2 years?) of not wearing them too often they've definitely deteriorated in feel. The logo print still looks great though so good job on that. My primary tshirts are H&M stretch cotton shirts which sell for about $10-13 in Toronto. Now obviously TL can't come close to that price just due to economy of scale. However, I'd at least like them to match in quality of feel. Could you try moving to a jersey cotton or something similarly soft? I don't know much about textiles so maybe you already do.
To add to this I'd like the next generation of tshirts to be a bit more form fitting. The fit of the SSS shirts is so traditional. Like if I went to a department store and bought the most standard men's white tshirt. In the 18-34 demographic I think guys tend to wear their clothes more slim fitted than that. From the looks of the picture the TL hoodie seems pretty slim fit but I've never tried one myself.
Another idea is TL wife beaters (tank tops). It's something where if you don't want to show off your TL fanboy you're wearing it under another shirt anyway. If you're in the mood then you can unbutton your OCBD or just wear the wife beater on its own? Something like a white shirt with a pale blue TL horse on it that wouldn't show too much through thin shirts worn over top perhaps? I think this would allow you guys to also hit a lower minimum apparel price as you could likely get these produced for cheaper than the print tshirts. As well, people are likely to buy more than one undershirt as many guys wear them quite often between laundry days. Maybe a 3 pack or 5 pack to help with price per unit/
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On May 14 2014 06:10 DarkNetHunter wrote:
Even if everyone here vocally says THEY DUN CAR WUT OTHA PEOPLEZ THINK, that is not the demographic that is shelling out 60$ for one of your hoodies. The ones that do are the ones who want something that will look good in all settings, and get that nod of appreciation of someone who recognizes the small winged horse logo, and yet they can proudly wear it at a bigger nerd event.
This is the way to go for me when considering buying a shirt or hoodie.
It's very important to me that the shirt/hoodie/sweater/whatever would look great on it's own (without logos/print) and even better with a subtle nod towards TL/SC2. Your TLPRO Jacket is a very nice example of this, especially the front view. Text and Logo don't cover up too much space, the design is great and it would still be enough of a reference for sneaky high-fives with unknown people who know the site.
If I were to spend money on something I would like to wear it more than once every few months for a live event or when idling at home.
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I think it's about class and making a statement. Combine men's fashion with gentle but clear shoutouts to gamer identity. TL cufflinks or a tie pattern for example might be good to look at.
I think the penny arcade guys had the right basic idea with their First Party stuff, but they never really got that rolling beyond a concept line.
You want something a businessman can wear to work and then drop into the barcraft on his way home and feel like he's making a statement in both places.
@disciple, this is something I think I might be able to advise on. I literally have no experience in fashion design, but I have a lot of experience studying gamer cultures and I used to organise a bunch of social things for TL in australia. Let me know if you'd like to have some kind of a chat about this stuff ^^.
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On May 14 2014 02:21 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 02:16 Saechiis wrote:
What's secret about wearing a shirt that says TeamLiquid on it? That hardly anyone of the general population knows what Team Liquid is
Was to the doctor the other day. He asked me if i was horseriding or just like horses.
Told him it was a videogame team, he was surprised that it existed.
The man was like 10years older than me... So.. There's that.
Also, i'm sure someone who likes fashionable clothes are not going to were a Tl shirt. But i'm sure he would have a TL cofee mug or some dumb stuff like that. (i know i would buy a coffee mug). A scarf maybe ? You see football scarf. Why not esport ones (i don't like soccer and there's some pretty nice looking scarf).
But i'm in no way a fashion guy and i am proud to say i'm right now at work with a TL Zerg tshirt.
Oh and also. If the shirt looks really good, you will be ask what it is. If it's just a logo, people don't care. It's the same thing with bands clothes.
Or just put a picture of Flash on one shirt and one of Bisu on the other. I now at least 2people that would buy everything
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now's time for nazgul to actually turn to the fashion world x_x
liquid fashion noes t_t
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I wear gaming t-shirts and sweatpants. TIL I'm not fashionable. D:
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Bisutopia19190 Posts
On May 14 2014 07:52 KadaverBB wrote:Give me my TL coffee mug already
This would be great. A lot of us are old enough to work in cubicle huts. Coffee is our generation.
On topic though, most of the stuff I've bought I'm afraid to wear because I don't want to ruin it. The SKT jersey fro sure will be a rare wear. But I did buy two team liquid shirts so I could ruin one with my horrible washing skills. I wish it were possible to bring the price down, but I understand the economics so I wait till my birthday/christmas to get the items for free :0.
Also, I really like this post.
On May 14 2014 03:22 Logo wrote:The problem with a lot of shirts and stuff is it's rather first and foremost an advertisement or some overt reference to gaming that doesn't really look great (usually ok, but not great). Personally I'd like to see more DotA shirts in the style of: http://imgur.com/a/HCWwH or http://sheron1030.deviantart.com/art/Dota-2-Kunkka-Wallpaper-375627418Possibly minus the text and background or whatever fits right. That Kunkka design especially would just be perfect on a shirt (so long as it's not that odd plasticy stuff that sticks out of the shirt) because it looks compelling and interesting without even understanding the reference.
Alternate approach: Just put Bisu on everything and I'll go broke.
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On May 14 2014 20:51 BisuDagger wrote:This would be great. A lot of us are old enough to work in cubicle huts. Coffee is our generation. On topic though, most of the stuff I've bought I'm afraid to wear because I don't want to ruin it. The SKT jersey fro sure will be a rare wear. But I did buy two team liquid shirts so I could ruin one with my horrible washing skills. I wish it were possible to bring the price down, but I understand the economics so I wait till my birthday/christmas to get the items for free :0. Also, I really like this post. Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 03:22 Logo wrote:The problem with a lot of shirts and stuff is it's rather first and foremost an advertisement or some overt reference to gaming that doesn't really look great (usually ok, but not great). Personally I'd like to see more DotA shirts in the style of: http://imgur.com/a/HCWwH or http://sheron1030.deviantart.com/art/Dota-2-Kunkka-Wallpaper-375627418Possibly minus the text and background or whatever fits right. That Kunkka design especially would just be perfect on a shirt (so long as it's not that odd plasticy stuff that sticks out of the shirt) because it looks compelling and interesting without even understanding the reference. Alternate approach: Just put Bisu on everything and I'll go broke.
kty panties =( ?
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Merch just isn't that fashionable in the first place, compared to what you could otherwise wear. Plus a lot of TL being tertiary educated or on the way means they probably care about not being pigeonholed as the sort of guys that wear team jerseys or wwe/mma merch as casual attire. Merchandise is a really hard sell especially in korea because of the fashion aspect, the only time you'll ever see it is on baseball gamedays with people going to the actual game. Otherwise koreans would rather look good, as OP said, understated and high quality is the best bet.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51451 Posts
Yeah that is Korean culture though i understand that, but in our Nerdy lifestyle 90% of the nerds dont care about fashion? Hell i don't care about fashion either, 90% of the T shirts in my wardrobe are Penguin designer thing. Mainly due to i liked the Penguin logo (A penguin!!!!) and their reasonably priced £40-60 polo shirt - £70-90 Trainers - £100-120 Jackets. But like i said i also wear my Chelsea shirts around the house and to the pub. I also wear the polo shirts to family parties and friends parties (aslong as not a dress code, ala going clubbing after) i wear my Chelsea shorts as regular shorts in the summer etc. Pretty sure 90% of the target audience of Team Liquid merchandise do the same thing? And it will be EXTREMELY impossible for TL to some how branch into the fashion industry and start selling to everyone?
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On May 14 2014 22:15 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah that is Korean culture though i understand that, but in our Nerdy lifestyle 90% of the nerds dont care about fashion? Hell i don't care about fashion either, 90% of the T shirts in my wardrobe are Penguin designer thing. Mainly due to i liked the Penguin logo (A penguin!!!!) and their reasonably priced £40-60 polo shirt - £70-90 Trainers - £100-120 Jackets. But like i said i also wear my Chelsea shirts around the house and to the pub. I also wear the polo shirts to family parties and friends parties (aslong as not a dress code, ala going clubbing after) i wear my Chelsea shorts as regular shorts in the summer etc. Pretty sure 90% of the target audience of Team Liquid merchandise do the same thing? And it will be EXTREMELY impossible for TL to some how branch into the fashion industry and start selling to everyone?
"i don't care about fashion" is something guys repeat because they associate "fashion" as catwalks and supermodels and handbags and they don't want to seem stereotypically feminine. the reality is if you choose what color to wear, pick one shirt over another, look at another guy's shoes and think "nice kicks!" or do anything involving making a choice on what to wear and what looks like something appropriate for your personal image, you do care about fashion
now if you want to say "in most social situations i'm fine just wearing a t-shirt," that's cool - i'm the same way. but even when i'm just wearing a graphic design tee or other simple shirt, i still pick one out that i think looks good and feel like wearing that day  and that's fashion, it applies to any type of clothes or accessories you spend money on. it doesn't make you "girly" or "metrosexual" or some kind of yolo swag club bro - everyone cares to some point how they look, even if the way you choose to look is trying to make a statement against dressing up too much
hell, even buying an alienware PC is a fashion statement, it's just not clothing fashion
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51451 Posts
On May 14 2014 22:39 Waise wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2014 22:15 Pandemona wrote:
Yeah that is Korean culture though i understand that, but in our Nerdy lifestyle 90% of the nerds dont care about fashion? Hell i don't care about fashion either, 90% of the T shirts in my wardrobe are Penguin designer thing. Mainly due to i liked the Penguin logo (A penguin!!!!) and their reasonably priced £40-60 polo shirt - £70-90 Trainers - £100-120 Jackets. But like i said i also wear my Chelsea shirts around the house and to the pub. I also wear the polo shirts to family parties and friends parties (aslong as not a dress code, ala going clubbing after) i wear my Chelsea shorts as regular shorts in the summer etc. Pretty sure 90% of the target audience of Team Liquid merchandise do the same thing? And it will be EXTREMELY impossible for TL to some how branch into the fashion industry and start selling to everyone? "i don't care about fashion" is something guys repeat because they associate "fashion" as catwalks and supermodels and handbags and they don't want to seem stereotypically feminine. the reality is if you choose what color to wear, pick one shirt over another, look at another guy's shoes and think "nice kicks!" or do anything involving making a choice on what to wear and what looks like something appropriate for your personal image, you do care about fashion now if you want to say "in most social situations i'm fine just wearing a t-shirt," that's cool - i'm the same way. but even when i'm just wearing a graphic design tee or other simple shirt, i still pick one out that i think looks good and feel like wearing that day and that's fashion, it applies to any type of clothes or accessories you spend money on. it doesn't make you "girly" or "metrosexual" or some kind of yolo swag club bro - everyone cares to some point how they look, even if the way you choose to look is trying to make a statement against dressing up too much hell, even buying an alienware PC is a fashion statement, it's just not clothing fashion
Yeah i know that side of Fashion but in terms of fashion as what you wear in certain places. Like if your going out to the pub would you think ill throw this on from my wardrobe or would you think right....its this kind of pub, these people going be there i need to wear X Y and Z.
I not saying anything wrong with fashion at all im just saying that if you bought a Team Liquid shirt your not buying it solely on looks. Your buying it to support the website, to support ESPORTS and because you like Team Liquid. Then the design comes in like choice 5?
If Chelsea made a shirt that looked awful, i would still buy it and wear it. I proven it when i purchased;
+ Show Spoiler +
Not my proudest moment, but at least i stood out huh xD
That to me is the only market i see for Team Liquid shirts. There isn't going to be a market for people to go "oh damn that looks to good not to buy" from the people looking in the Team Liquid site. Your either a Team Liquid fan or a fan of ESPORTS when your here. You will either buy stuff from TL or you won't there isn't anything in between. Thus i don't think the looks of things should be scrutinized into such a fracas that your going to hire Victoria Beckham to come design the next shirt. As long as it has the Liquid Horse on and is Blue 90% of people who were going to buy it still would.
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i would buy IM, KT, Acer, EG, STX Soul jerseys if they were available. id easily spend 120$ on shirts just to wear at home.
maybe TL can sell them for the other teams?
The blue TL-jersey is awesome aswell, just not the current goingout fashion, but a real feelgoodshirt
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On May 14 2014 00:41 disciple wrote:
There's a lot to learn from world wrestling entertainment's success and marketing strategies. I've been on and off wrestling fan for probably 15 years now and every time I go back after a 2-3 years hiatus ...
Vince Mcmahon is my hero. i get laughed at by some for saying it. i'm glad you and TL.Net are open minded enough to seriously examine the WWE's revenue generating methods.
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sell TL velcro sneakers
that's the only way
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On May 14 2014 20:51 BisuDagger wrote:
Alternate approach: Just put Bisu on everything and I'll go broke.
sorry =(
nsfw
+ Show Spoiler +
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I think you killed bisudagger boonbag. He drowned in his own drool
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On May 15 2014 21:45 FFW_Rude wrote:
I think you killed bisudagger boonbag. He drowned in his own drool
success x_x
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On May 14 2014 01:59 lichter wrote:
Is this a veiled TL Sneakers announcement?
I was hoping for hair products :/
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Bisutopia19190 Posts
On May 15 2014 21:46 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2014 21:45 FFW_Rude wrote:
I think you killed bisudagger boonbag. He drowned in his own drool success x_x
If you put savior on the other end then you've got a winner.
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On May 16 2014 00:15 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 15 2014 21:46 Boonbag wrote:On May 15 2014 21:45 FFW_Rude wrote:
I think you killed bisudagger boonbag. He drowned in his own drool success x_x If you put savior on the other end then you've got a winner.
not really possible on this model sir
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Bisutopia19190 Posts
On May 16 2014 00:21 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 00:15 BisuDagger wrote:On May 15 2014 21:46 Boonbag wrote:On May 15 2014 21:45 FFW_Rude wrote:
I think you killed bisudagger boonbag. He drowned in his own drool success x_x If you put savior on the other end then you've got a winner. not really possible on this model sir
I'm sure you can fit him on there. It can be really small.
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On May 16 2014 00:34 BisuDagger wrote:Show nested quote +On May 16 2014 00:21 Boonbag wrote:On May 16 2014 00:15 BisuDagger wrote:On May 15 2014 21:46 Boonbag wrote:On May 15 2014 21:45 FFW_Rude wrote:
I think you killed bisudagger boonbag. He drowned in his own drool success x_x If you put savior on the other end then you've got a winner. not really possible on this model sir I'm sure you can fit him on there. It can be really small.
i thought savior here was taboo
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I feel like esports merch is hard to wear in public because most of them have sponsors all over them and they don't want that, even though it makes sense why they are on there. The TL jacket is slick looking and not cluttered or messy like some shirts, and can be worn around, while other esports merch is less versatile and more situational.
Pro sports jerseys are common wear because of the spectrum of knowledge the public has about the teams and such, so there is less question. But every time I wear my TL blue jersey, I get questions about it, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. I've had one person recognize it over the 6 months I've had the shirt, on a college campus, so I guess that tells you how many people know about TL.
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I adore my two TL hoodies and the winged horse shirt and really hope TL will keep offering both because I'd sure want to buy some more. Some of my other favourites are the Day9 and Axiom polos for the same reasons.
I don't think it's about lack of pride in showing your support for Starcraft but that a more subtle design is stylish and goes well with other clothing choices. I like having some of the stuff that's more obviously associated with a sports team too but would not wear it as often and I don't think that has anything to do with esports specifically.
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I agree, but for that to happen I suspect TL will need to hire an expert in fashion and apparel. T-shirts and hoodies are easy since they are fairly standard and the logo's design and colours only matter. I read a post about sneakers, those might work.
I look at brand stores like Zara that are adding watches or shoes to their collection, but I have yet to purchase one. I'm not a watch person, though I do love shoes.
/edit
I just googled vans, and I read: "Shop at Vans for shoes, clothing and accessories. Browse event news, upcoming products, contests, videos, and much more! Authentic since 1966."
and
When I google Teamliquid, I read: "Team Liquid is a community site focused on StarCraft 2 and Dota 2, with an emphasis on pro-gaming. Featuring StarCraft 2 and Dota 2 news and events, forums, ..."
Speaking of which, I think the text for teamliquid needs a rework. Cmon wax, wax something poetic or salesworthy. Maybe something like:
Watch the best Starcraft players and the biggest tournaments at Teamliquid. Browse event news, upcoming merchandise, contests, videos, and much more! Not authentic at all since 2014.
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Personally I think you need more accessories and stuff that is "fat dude" friendly. Give us hats, scarves, new pins, maybe a horse figure or something. I wish I could buy this Jacket but after the hoody was so slim fitting I don't dare spend more money on something I would feel self-conscious wearing. Though to be fair I'm probably in the minority here.
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korean designs are just the best, they look great, they look professional, they look high quality and subtle.
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picture must be photoshopped. how can one wear a bisupant without having an erection?
I would actually prefer the TL-shirt with full advertising. I love how it looks and would wear it everywhere
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As a true Starcraft nerdballer. And a pure TL fanboy.
I have bought three T-shirts. The old liquid T-shirt. The protoss T-shirt and the new T-shirt.
I have also bought the Hoodie and the documentary to recieve the poster
I am really happy about all the merch I bought but I would love more to choose from.
Stuff that I miss.
A sick quality coffee mug with a nice liquid logo.
Not one of those standard thick coffee mugs.
I want something that I will use. Not just put it on top of a shelf
Why not a beer glass? A thin glass for your favourite ale... liquid ... hehe.
I want a TL sticker to stick on the back of my car
The reason you sell most of your stuff only during the first week is because the hardcore fans buy it instantly and I can only guess how hard it must be to make the correct amount and not to few or to many of a certain clothing.
The less hardcore ones might want stuff thats not 20-30 $ +.
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I'll proudly wear an understated shirt or hoodie with the TL logo over something that is overtly gaming related. That way if someone is into the TL community, they will know that I am as well, but otherwise, its just a sweet horse logo.
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On May 17 2014 09:49 Mr. Black wrote:
I'll proudly wear an understated shirt or hoodie with the TL logo over something that is overtly gaming related. That way if someone is into the TL community, they will know that I am as well, but otherwise, its just a sweet horse logo.
x2
Also, what are the chances TL will ever re-make the old shirt with the Horse and the scarf made of flags? Mine finally bit the dust
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My big issue is a lot of gaming shirts look really dorky. When I see someone wear a gaming jersey with patches, sponsors, etc everywhere... It usually looks really dorky to me. As someone mentioned, the shirt needs to have class, and just be a quality stand alone shirt. When I see people wearing most gaming uniforms, I think of young teenager, or late twenties adult living in their parents basement. That's on me, but that's how I associate it, because many people you see are exactly that, and there are many people giving gaming a bad name.
When you wear a a hardcore gaming shirt, you will likely be associated with: Halo, Call of Duty, Counter Strike, League of Legends, Street Fighter, Starcraft... And I don't want to mistaken for some of those people. Hell, even a lot of people in the Starcraft/Dota community I wouldn't want to be associated with, it can simply be damaging to social standing. The general PC gamer has a negative connotation attached in Canada, and justifiably so, I think many people cannot handle the rest of their life when immersed in video games.
And that's what it comes down to, the gaming/esports community is so vast, hardly anyone likes to be associated with it, because it's easy to misinterpret who they are, and the "bad" gamers, are some of the worst people you can be mistaken for in my eyes, no friends, unable to formula arguments, impossible to talk to, poor grades, greasy.
This is why gaming gear for the classier folk needs to be different. Essentially all gaming gear is a t-shirt with lots of logos and many graphics, and pull over hoodies which are $20 walmart quality. This is not something I want to see my self wearing - it is not cool, it gives a low class image, it's too flashy, while gaming communities like TL like more subtle things. Stuff like the Complexity shirt, Dignitas shirt, EG shirt, etc... All fit the criteria described.
I would like to show my support in a more subtle way wearing something that's well made, and something I wouldn't mind wearing around business affiliates, potential customers, as well as professionals at the university and other companies that I may want to use for references or other information later. For me, the way I look at the big TL items:
TL Jersey: Wouldn't wear this anywhere but if I went to an esport event.
TL Winged Horse Shirt: If I have gamer friends over, if I go to a LAN center, or if I'm going to any gaming themed event. Also just for general at home wear it's alright.
TL Hoodie: Quality looks very nice, I would not mind wearing this to when I casually go to the bar with non-gaming friends, wear this for a typical long day at the university, and just wear it like a regular hoodie I would buy anywhere else, albeit good quality and I would wear it and show my support in most instances where professional clothing is unnecessary.
TL Jacket: Looks sexy, from the pictures it simply seems like a solid jacket, with the exception of the sponsor logos. If I owned one, and it would be what I expect, I would very well make it my regular jacket. I would wear it like any normal jacket I'd buy for $100-$200, and whether it's a chilly day in fall and I'm going to the store, or seeing friends, meeting for a group project, I'd enjoy wearing it. Only when casual-moderate business attire or more professional is required, I would rather where something more generic. I like the design of the teamliquid jacket a lot though.
I haven't yet bought any esports apparel - I was on the fence about the hoodie, but in the end I chose not to. However if the Jacket doesn't have the HyperX logo I will buy it, and if it does contain all the sponsor logos, I'll still consider it. I suppose I'm probably the minority in wanting more professionalism in clothing, more collars, better cuts, but it's what I'm willing to spend money for. I suppose if you're a 25+ adult, you wouldn't want to dress after a 16-20 year old kid playing video games on a regular day, it's just a mental thing.
I'm not exactly sure where I want to go with this post, as it's two completely different demographics, I do think the veteran users would rather only want little hints of the gaming, because they are on this site for far more than just the video game, and those people are the minority, and I'm in that minority. Then there are the crazy fans of players, teams, and just the game in general, generally a younger audience - those are the people that would rather buy the generic team shirts with sponsors and whatever else, and I think teamliquid needs to appeal to both crowds, however I do hope that teamliquid to keep on the trajectory of continuing to create premium fashionable apparel, I think that's more of what teamliquid is about.
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There are a few problems to marketing the shirts in general. FiWiFaKi touched on a few points designating himself and the general population as shallow individuals (saying it like it is). As such, I can't always justify going around advertising for Twitch.tv and TLAF but I do it sometimes because fuck the police. I've given a 3 hr class while wearing my teamliquid tshirt because sometimes I go casual. That being said, it does look a bit dorky and while I don't mind it for myself, it does have an incidence on the whole social factor. There are a lot of people who certainly think of me somewhat negatively when they see me going around with gaming swag because they think I'm a basement dweller. I've spent a few days out with my Team Dignitas hoodie but I can see why most people wouldn't like that. I was conscious that some people would inevitably see the Razer logo on my arm and think I'm a twat and they'd be somewhat right.
Lose the sponsor tags, they look goofy and frankly I don't like to be free god damn advertisement for some huge international corporations, especially since it doesn't seem to have an influence on the product's price. Find a way to get your prices under control which is possible even if you're not moving a huge number of shirts. And lastly, the TL logo shouldn't be too gamey. The hoodie was great for that and I still wear it a few days a week during the winter.
I'd say that your analysis in the OP was largely good. Understated logo is the key.
But additionally, there's the obvious price issue. Find yourself some distributors or something... $20 to ship the SKT1 jersey or some lightweight thing made out of fabric to Canada is abusive.
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My gf only have socks with pigs, horses, cats on them.. i would happily buy pack of TL horse socks for a good price
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 14 2014 00:41 disciple wrote:
Another parallel which is worth making is with skating and skater apparel. Skaters have a lifestyle that goes with particular apparel brands like VANS Globe DVS etc, but over the years these brands managed to reach a much bigger audience. Random guys wear VANS shirts cause its cool. Sure most of these brands used to have and sponsor pro skating teams, but by now its hard to even make that connection cause they are so much bigger than that. For the customers though this all is still bottom line a cool lifestyle. If you ask me how I want people to see Esports and gaming apparel in 10 years I will probably say I would want it to be like VANS.
as someone who lives a skater lifestyle and wears skater clothes I kind of avoid brands like vans and burton in favour of smaller brands like lrg and enjoi just because otherwise it feels a bit like you blend into one of a crowd rather than being proud of your scene.
not that i dont wear this stuff, i have a pair of plimsolls from both vans and dvs, its just noticeable when a brand starts to cater to others
edit: id also like to say that comparisons between skating or any other extreme sport and esports are far better than comparisons between esports and traditional sports because extreme sports went through the phase that esports are going through now
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I think in general alot of the esports fanbase is going to be quite introverted about what they wear, they wouldn't want to wear a giant TEAMLIQUID+Horse tshirt in public because it would beg the question "WTF is teamliquid" and stands out alot - something many people would want to avoid. This is because of the stigma of gaming and (sorry to say) i feel many people who are big into esports enough to buy some merchandise are more likely to be shy about it. I am one of those people (I have a razer hoodie ive worn...3 times, once to a barcraft. Granted, its probably because it doesnt fit me anymore fucking subway )
The TL Hoodie doesnt do that, its all but your standard hoodie, plenty of hoodies have a small writing+picture logo on them that nobody has ever heard of and TL fits right into that mould of "Its just a (nice!) hoodie." It fits well into everyday fashion and doesnt stand out as over the top or flamboyant, just as damn stylish.
Your merchandise (especially the tshirts) are extremely well-designed but i think its that "nerd" stigma that would pull them down. Wearing one proudly displays your love of the unknown, opens up a plethora of questions, judgemental opinions, ridicule and cunts who just look down on you because cunts. Something alot of people fear and want to avoid.
This is just my opinion but its how i personally would feel about donning a brazen TL-shirt "Man this shits awesome but i bet people are going to laugh and be like WTF is that, i dont want that "
Maybe im just a max-level introverted shy nerd though. Still buying that merch now im back in the UK. That hoodie is going to look so sexy covering my beer belly.
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LiquidHero sneakers PLEASE, ADD TO TL STORE.
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Those are some interesting thoughts into the design and marketability of TL merch. While I havent had the burden of a large scale operation, I have designed and sold shirts for several small projects throughout the years. One experience that could be similar was making band shirts for a very small and local metal band. There was only a relatively small, loyal group interested in the product, and they wanted something that needed to look good for everyday wear without looking too ostentatious and "in your face".
It's just one of those situation where everyone is so excited about getting their hands on some sweet TL merch that they all buy right when it comes out and sales slow down after.
I wear my TL hoodie almost daily sometimes and has become my go to. No one on the street would know it is a shirt for a gaming community because of it's clean design, but sometimes I get asked and are happy to explain to them about the amazing-ness that is TL.net
Also, I would definitely buy the shit out of a TL tank/polyester type shirt! would wear it to the gym everyday as cleanliness permits. Hats are always a popular item as well and I think TL could do well selling one similar to the styling on the hoodie. Something like the coffee mug someone else mentioned I think would sell a ton too, because it has become pretty synonymous with working on a computer. I would definitely buy one of those too and keep it at my office and even gift them to some like minded friends
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Northern Ireland24218 Posts
I didn't realise how many people here care about the ridicule of strangers, something I have literally never experienced when out with buddies wearing apparel of that kind, or I myself.
Is it a fear of said ridicule, because given how much ridiculous clothing is seen on the average nights out, a discrete horse logo on a well-designed jacket will not stand out at all in a negative attention-attracting way.
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On May 22 2014 04:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't realise how many people here care about the ridicule of strangers, something I have literally never experienced when out with buddies wearing apparel of that kind, or I myself.
Is it a fear of said ridicule, because given how much ridiculous clothing is seen on the average nights out, a discrete horse logo on a well-designed jacket will not stand out at all in a negative attention-attracting way.
It's not black and white. I don't necessarily care about the ridicule of strangers, but doesn't mean I should go around inviting it.
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On May 23 2014 05:02 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2014 04:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't realise how many people here care about the ridicule of strangers, something I have literally never experienced when out with buddies wearing apparel of that kind, or I myself.
Is it a fear of said ridicule, because given how much ridiculous clothing is seen on the average nights out, a discrete horse logo on a well-designed jacket will not stand out at all in a negative attention-attracting way. It's not black and white. I don't necessarily care about the ridicule of strangers, but doesn't mean I should go around inviting it.
How does wearing clothes with some teams insignia or any kind of colorful imagery invite ridicule? I mean by itself disregarding the topic of said imagery, cause that's how I uerstood that exchange betweenyou two.
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On May 23 2014 05:27 McRatyn wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 05:02 plogamer wrote:On May 22 2014 04:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't realise how many people here care about the ridicule of strangers, something I have literally never experienced when out with buddies wearing apparel of that kind, or I myself.
Is it a fear of said ridicule, because given how much ridiculous clothing is seen on the average nights out, a discrete horse logo on a well-designed jacket will not stand out at all in a negative attention-attracting way. It's not black and white. I don't necessarily care about the ridicule of strangers, but doesn't mean I should go around inviting it. How does wearing clothes with some teams insignia or any kind of colorful imagery invite ridicule? I mean by itself disregarding the topic of said imagery, cause that's how I uerstood that exchange betweenyou two.
No one is saying that team insignia or colourful imagery alone invites ridicule. The whole thread is on the topic of the said imagery and how tastefully it is done. You can't just disregard that.
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On May 23 2014 05:33 plogamer wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2014 05:27 McRatyn wrote:On May 23 2014 05:02 plogamer wrote:On May 22 2014 04:45 Wombat_NI wrote:
I didn't realise how many people here care about the ridicule of strangers, something I have literally never experienced when out with buddies wearing apparel of that kind, or I myself.
Is it a fear of said ridicule, because given how much ridiculous clothing is seen on the average nights out, a discrete horse logo on a well-designed jacket will not stand out at all in a negative attention-attracting way. It's not black and white. I don't necessarily care about the ridicule of strangers, but doesn't mean I should go around inviting it. How does wearing clothes with some teams insignia or any kind of colorful imagery invite ridicule? I mean by itself disregarding the topic of said imagery, cause that's how I uerstood that exchange betweenyou two. No one is saying that team insignia or colourful imagery alone invites ridicule. The whole thread is on the topic of the said imagery and how tastefully it is done. You can't just disregard that.
Fair enough but then even more so, nothing on TL appareal seems to be ridiculous in the slightest. The question I think I'm trying to pose is "how much of taste are you looking for in casual, informal wear or sport clothes"? Since I kind of pushed myself into your conversation I don't mean to get down on you or anythin, just that wear like this is perfectly fine for what it is supposed to be which is everyday casual thematical wear.
Then again, it can be highly subjective I guess, I went to my uni classes today, and do so on everyday basis, in a T-shirt with a Happy Tree Friends character cut in half with lumber tools with words "Work is such a buzz kill" that I bought in a popular clothing franchise and am always perfectly fine with it.
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Pretty much what everyone is saying. The TL hoodie is more popular than everything else because everything else looks stupid for everyday wear.
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First time I wore the http://www.teamliquid.net/store/us/teamliquid/tshirts/winged-horse-t-shirt I was at the mall buying shit and got a few compliments from randoms. Of course those lead to questions and then baffled people but it's not a bad looking shirt. The hoodie is nice, its understated, clean design, good colors can't really bitch about it it's just a good looking hoodie. I do think keeping things on the simpler side is good personally.
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