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Subtitle: Or Why Oversaturation is a Real Issue
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2ExwKEC.png)
Typical day of meaningless
Let me clarify; I'm a huge Dota2 fan. I play an unhealthy amount. It has probably hurt some of my personal relationships. I don't get enough sleep because of it. I watch Dota 2 every day at work. I love the International (this article doesn't pertain to TI).
And I don't give a single fuck about any Dota tournaments.
At the peak of popularity of every sport, every competitive event, every good TV show even, narrative is one of the most important elements and is drawn upon. Often called hype, narrative makes everything mean something. It makes you care about who wins and who loses. It makes you root for the underdogs, and hate the dominating teams (unless you are one of those New York Yankee fans or something.) It makes you track those amazing runs those teams make to get to the finals that legends are made of.
+ Show Spoiler [clarification] +More or less, this mainly pertains to Western Dota. For the most part, China has their shit figured out
We have SO many fucking tournaments its impossible to give a single fuck about anything but the International. For about 12 hours every day, there's about 3-4 "MAJOR" tournaments going on. There's about 5+ tournaments that are "MAJOR" (meaning, that pretty much every large team plays in them and the prize pool is significant (over 10-15k USD). Each of them have their own unique brackets, unique rules, unique match ups. Hell, even most of the broadcasters have no idea who's doing what, who's eliminated, what each game means (though, admittedly Ayesee does this pretty well). How the hell am I supposed to care about it when the casters hardly even know? Hell, most of the big casters cover 2-4 tournaments each, and you can't even basically tell when they switch from tournament to tournament.
As a consequence, how do you even select which tournament to watch? Let's be honest, we aren't following the tournament to see if so and so team can beat so and so team so team C can have a better place in the standings and a likely chance to advance. Nah fuck that - we are watching Fnatic play Na'Vi. We are watching the daily Alliance vs EG. This shit happens every day now.
I guess that's okay though - the real issue isn't the amount of GAMES. The problem is the amount of TOURNAMENTS.
I mean, I get it, I've heard the arguments. Competition. The market and the consumers choose the best organizations to succeed.
Except, in many ways, that's bullshit. We choose the biggest teams playing one another. That's it. Most of us will mute the casters if we don't like them, and we only kind of care about the production value (Dreamleague?). And the competition is hurting the growth of the game in many ways - it splits the viewer pools into all of these tournaments we don't care about. Instead of having 1 or 2 tournaments with 30,000-50,0000 viewers, we have 4 with 10,000. When a tournament or team goes to a company looking for a sponsorship and tries to pitch this game to them, they say "Hey look at the growth of Dota! Look at all these viewers we have now!". The sponsor will look at the given situation, and won't see the 50,000 total viewers, but they will see the 10,000 that will typically watch a game. Obviously, this is a much weaker pitch.
![[image loading]](http://blog.dota2.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/panorama.jpg)
The only thing I give a fuck about in this game
+ Show Spoiler +Dota 2 has one really nice thing that Valve did that helps differentiate itself from Starcraft in the International. The International, more or less the Superbowl of ESPORTS, helps us care about all this shit. Its the one thing to look forward to, the one area of narrative Dota has going for it. Otherwise, the only narrative we get is the stupid drama that happens ever once in awhile when someone flames someone, or someone gets cut from some team
What's the problem with ESPORTS right now? Money is more or less number one (unless you play a superior MOBA of course.) And where does the money more or less come from in most sports and competition? Outside companies, sponsors, TV deals, commercials, etc. Yeah, tickets are nice and will make a lot of money; but especially in ESPORTS, that's not enough to push us over the edge right now. Right now, we need to work with companies to help the scene grow financially to help teams and tournaments.
And what is the number one way to help secure this money?
Number of viewers.
And its really fucking hard to be a fan right now.
  
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(though, admittedly Ayesee does this pretty well)
Disregard this blog, not real Comeh.
I'm investigating what happened to real comeh
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On May 06 2014 23:41 Qbek wrote:Disregard this blog, not real Comeh. I'm investigating what happened to real comeh
That's about all I have to say about Ayesee.
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i dont care about any tournament other than lan tournaments really, but im still glad i get to watch dota2 at any given time i want :D
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Yeah, I've found that unless its the LAN finals of something (Starladder :D) i just watch the games at face value because its a game and pretty much ignore any broader narrative.
Ur screenshot isn't even a "busy day" in the dota world thats the issue lol.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Since I started playing Dota 2 I haven't cared about any tournament but TI, I agree.
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On May 06 2014 23:50 Sn0_Man wrote:
Ur screenshot isn't even a "busy day" in the dota world thats the issue lol.
Yeah, I mean, when 5 tournaments isn't even "busy"...
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On May 06 2014 23:51 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 23:50 Sn0_Man wrote:
Ur screenshot isn't even a "busy day" in the dota world thats the issue lol. Yeah, I mean, when 5 tournaments isn't even "busy"...
well only 4 tournaments in ur SS are dota and the reason I even say that is cuz jDL and the smalltime "cups" aren't terribly important to most people. When there's 3 tournaments with 2 10K+ viewer streams each then we are talking viewer splitting lol.
But yes when I can call all that "not busy" it says a lot.
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Northern Ireland22208 Posts
It just seems to be these few months, don't forget about the dead periods in the months after TI. I wouldn't mind events being spread out a little more too.
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On May 06 2014 23:55 ahswtini wrote:
It just seems to be these few months, don't forget about the dead periods in the months after TI. I wouldn't mind events being spread out a little more too.
Well, I believe there were 2 tournaments a few weeks after TI3 (starladder and....something else), but about 1.5 months after TI 3 it was basically in full gear.
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On May 06 2014 23:55 ahswtini wrote:
It just seems to be these few months, don't forget about the dead periods in the months after TI. I wouldn't mind events being spread out a little more too.
Hmmm yes that too. Although trying to hold a tournament shortly after TI obviously doesn't work but I feel like the dead period was super-mega long this year 
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On May 06 2014 23:58 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On May 06 2014 23:55 ahswtini wrote:
It just seems to be these few months, don't forget about the dead periods in the months after TI. I wouldn't mind events being spread out a little more too. Hmmm yes that too. Although trying to hold a tournament shortly after TI obviously doesn't work but I feel like the dead period was super-mega long this year
Well, it hurts when every team disbands, but that's a whole different issue.
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spot on blog, I even feel the same in sc2 lol.
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PS the blog title as seen when perusing blogs is hilarious. I think u should have omitted the "2" 
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It's weird that a lot of people are complaining now about TOO MUCH dota.
Personally, I don't mind having a bunch of tourneys going on at once. My dota viewing schedule is pretty inconsistent and I enjoy constantly running into high quality games. It's nice to be able to catch a game between t1 teams almost every day. You can still CHOOSE to follow one tournament and prioritize it over others but for others it's just more choice.
Also for me, the final LAN weekend is where like 85% of the tournament story comes to life. There just isn't much to follow during season play, except to try to catch great games between your favorite teams. Like, I don't think anyone is going to watch all 100+ starladder games just for the "story" of it. :/
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You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene
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Too much ESPORTS is hurting ESPORTS.
wait wut
I would like to state that I also do not care about Dota2 tournaments, but not because there are too many of them, but just because I think the game is stupid.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
gz nina, you win the edgy award
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On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene
You make a strong point - though its worthwhile for online tournaments, there is VERY rarely a "dead time", as soon as one tournament ends, another begins or is still going on.
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Starladder, ESL One thingy and dreamleague/dh is kinda the two only tournaments that matter beside TI. So dont see why people care so much thats so many other scrub tournaments going on.
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The summit and D2L and D2CL all have substantial prizepools and essentially all the premier teams.
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Netherlands6181 Posts
I misread your title and nearly cried
I like DotA 2 tournies, but there is so little hype, I agree.
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Personally I just really like a few teams so i get to watch them once or twice a week which is great. And the thing is I do care about production value and I think others do too. The most popular tournaments recently are Starladder and Dreamleague. I think the main issue at present is the amount of qualifiers for main events. But i don't aim to watch those they are just coincidental.
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On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene
That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule.
Last two Dreamhacks were boring as shit though, but with EG and Team Dog, it should no longer be the case..
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On May 07 2014 02:02 LightTemplar wrote:
Personally I just really like a few teams so i get to watch them once or twice a week which is great. And the thing is I do care about production value and I think others do too. The most popular tournaments recently are Starladder and Dreamleague. I think the main issue at present is the amount of qualifiers for main events. But i don't aim to watch those they are just coincidental.
While Dreamleague has nice production value for their stream, I feel like they lack in many other sectors that makes their product...not so good (bad casting, terrible management of their ticket "fantasy league", bad casting, really bad casting, etc)
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 07 2014 02:02 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule.
what happened to sc2? you cant say its bullshit when its already happened once
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On May 07 2014 02:04 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:02 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule. what happened to sc2? you cant say its bullshit when its already happened once
I got tired of constantly watching sc2 long long time ago. The better example would be CS:GO scene, I believe.
People should understand that MORE tournaments always mean MORE great games and not the other way around.
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I just follow a single team,don't give a shit about tournaments per se
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On May 07 2014 02:10 Ru ba wrote:
I just follow a single team,don't give a shit about tournaments per se
Kind of my attitude as well. I look for games from the team I want to follow.
Other than that I think, I would like to watch some Dota, check which is the best game going on and watch that. Often with audio only, no video.
I think I would enjoy radio casts of Dota a lot, they would assume you can't see the video.
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United States15275 Posts
There's no point in consolidating the tournament scene if we don't have a sustainable system for training new players.
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On May 07 2014 02:45 CosmicSpiral wrote:
a sustainable system for training new players.
Care to elaborate?
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 07 2014 02:06 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:04 Targe wrote:On May 07 2014 02:02 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule. what happened to sc2? you cant say its bullshit when its already happened once I got tired of constantly watching sc2 long long time ago. The better example would be CS:GO scene, I believe. People should understand that MORE tournaments always mean MORE great games and not the other way around.
whats the point in having more good games if you dont give a shit about them?
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2774 Posts
On May 07 2014 02:04 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:02 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule. what happened to sc2? you cant say its bullshit when its already happened once
It's a natural process. It'll take its course, it's not like over-saturation permanently damages the scene.
I don't understand this mentality of constant worry. Tournaments, teams that are of lesser importance or not profitable in any way will be weeded out in the end to create a balance in all things.
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On May 07 2014 00:45 ninazerg wrote:
Too much ESPORTS is hurting ESPORTS.
wait wut
I would like to state that I also do not care about Dota2 tournaments, but not because there are too many of them, but just because I think the game is stupid.
Maybe it would be easier for you to tell us which games you don't think are stupid.
I also don't feel like the game has as much inherent longevity as SC2, but it has two things going for it, artificial variance and a large viewership that won't all get bored at once.
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I've stopped watching Dota since Fluff was kicked from TL, the 10 simultaneous tournaments that have the same teams and similar production didn't help.
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On May 07 2014 04:02 Jerubaal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 00:45 ninazerg wrote:
Too much ESPORTS is hurting ESPORTS.
wait wut
I would like to state that I also do not care about Dota2 tournaments, but not because there are too many of them, but just because I think the game is stupid. Maybe it would be easier for you to tell us which games you don't think are stupid. I also don't feel like the game has as much inherent longevity as SC2, but it has two things going for it, artificial variance and a large viewership that won't all get bored at once.
And Valve. And it has DotA to speak to its ever-increasing playerbase. I don't think Dota is going anywhere too fast (daed gams everwher)
At blog - Meh. Only tournament I watch for the actual tournament is any decent-sized LAN, and only a couple of those happen a year. Otherwise I'm just watching good teams or casters that make me laugh, and have basically no idea where any of these tournaments are in their progression, much less who is in them / who I hope wins. I could care less who wins some random online cup, ESPECIALLY if its empire/alliance/C9/basically any already established team.
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I have to agree really. I can't bring myself to care about a particular tournament either other than The International. Its all just "games of DOTA2" that don't really draw me into a story. There used to be just about few enough tournaments that I was interested in at least one at any particular point. Now its a mush. At least the in-game thing is categorised now because recently it was just a WALL of tournaments "NOW LIVE!". But its still overwhelming.
I mean...hell I can even point out where I stopped "following" tournaments and just started catching random games. Because I've bought tickets for some I was into...let me check this. The most recent is Starladder 9. I got that because I wanted to see some of the iG games. And I watched the finals and a few iG games over a few days according to this.
Before that? DOTA2 Champion's League. I bought that to check out some specific Liquid games apparently based on my views here.
The tournament before that was ATOD3 because I thought ATOD2 had been great fun. So to get to the next real tournament before that you're looking at The Premier League 4 more than a year ago. Looking through my viewing habits on that it was the last tournament where I'd watched a bunch of the games scattered throughout the season. A solid year since I've really followed the progress of a tournament as opposed to "how teams x, y and z that I like are doing".
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United States15275 Posts
On May 07 2014 02:47 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:45 CosmicSpiral wrote:
a sustainable system for training new players. Care to elaborate?
The farm system in most sports naturally creates tiers of competition in order to train up-and-coming players. You never hear people complain "There's too much basketball, it's over-saturating the scene!" No one is bothered by the fact that the NBA, European leagues, Chinese leagues, NCAA, high school, and street ball all exist even though their seasons all overlap. That's largely because although they all compete for their attention, we never compare them prestige or priority-wise. We know the NBA > EU/China > college > high school > street ball in terms of skill and importance. You don't compare Michigan State to the Bobcats; everyone knows Michigan would get smoked by the worst team in the NBA. That lets us watch and judge games from every tier on their own merits.
Additionally when you establish one-two leagues as the "professional scene", you naturally absorb smaller independent leagues into them. Basketball, baseball, all started out similar to Dota 2: a huge mess of competing independent local and regional leagues that refused to recognize any sovereignty. Yet as the overall scene became more profitable, it became necessary to establish one overarching league (mostly national).
Right now there's no real organizational structure that informs people which tournaments are the most important. I would say the only tournaments that unanimously qualify as "top" are Starladder, WPC-ACE League, and the International. They have a strong presence in Dota history and/or include the best teams in the world. Besides them, it's all in the dark. Is Dreamleague more prestiguous than D2L, D2CL, The Summit, etc.? Leagues don't really distinguish different tiers of competition either. We know who the best teams are but they aren't exclusive to the top tournaments. They determine what tournaments are the most important, not the other way around. So we always have to compare teams like Relax and Next.kz against them only to find them wanting. It's not really fair but they don't have their own leagues to prove themselves.
Exhaustion from too many tournaments is understandable. But it's not something that can be easily fixed. There's not enough money or incentive (and how would you do this without addressing internet issues anyway?) to restructure the scene.
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You can't really compare sports and ESPORTS in this particular issue. Noone watches every single football match, they watch their favorite teams. Even fanatics don't care that they could be watching other leagues/teams, even if their skill level higher than their own. This whole content oversaturation is unique to ESPORTS, even though sports have as much quality content (but a bit more stacked on weekends and wednesdays). Even professionals are not expected to know everything about leagues other than the ones they cover. There's plenty of high level football leagues in Europe and you would have to be mad to follow them all.
If you only cared about watching Navi, C9 or DK, you wouldn't be having the same problem. That's not a bad thing, because noone caring about Relax vs Next.Kz would be a bigger problem. Overall, people just wanting to watch good games is probally better than the alternative.
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I feel like the 'problem'(I don't see it as a problem at all, I love that regardless of my schedule I can almost always find good DotA to watch) is that there are a ton of Leagues running right now, or tournament qualifier group stages and whatnot, which serve the express purpose of putting out a ton of games to make sure the correct teams make it to the meaningful stages of the event.
Specifically right at this moment there does seem to be a ton of saturation, but I think this is actually somewhat of an anomaly of scheduling(especially since TI4 is a month earlier, which basically condensed the DotA summer). Sure there are usually multiple events going on(is that bad? I mean there are multiple regions to cater to, multiple events have to be running), but this stretch right now is pretty unique.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 07 2014 12:58 SKC wrote:
You can't really compare sports and ESPORTS in this particular issue. Noone watches every single football match, they watch their favorite teams. Even fanatics don't care that they could be watching other leagues/teams, even if their skill level higher than their own. This whole content oversaturation is unique to ESPORTS, even though sports have as much quality content (but a bit more stacked on weekends and wednesdays). Even professionals are not expected to know everything about leagues other than the ones they cover. There's plenty of high level football leagues in Europe and you would have to be mad to follow them all.
If you only cared about watching Navi, C9 or DK, you wouldn't be having the same problem. That's not a bad thing, because noone caring about Relax vs Next.Kz would be a bigger problem. Overall, people just wanting to watch good games is probally better than the alternative.
this just isnt true?
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On May 07 2014 20:54 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 12:58 SKC wrote:
You can't really compare sports and ESPORTS in this particular issue. Noone watches every single football match, they watch their favorite teams. Even fanatics don't care that they could be watching other leagues/teams, even if their skill level higher than their own. This whole content oversaturation is unique to ESPORTS, even though sports have as much quality content (but a bit more stacked on weekends and wednesdays). Even professionals are not expected to know everything about leagues other than the ones they cover. There's plenty of high level football leagues in Europe and you would have to be mad to follow them all.
If you only cared about watching Navi, C9 or DK, you wouldn't be having the same problem. That's not a bad thing, because noone caring about Relax vs Next.Kz would be a bigger problem. Overall, people just wanting to watch good games is probally better than the alternative.
this just isnt true?
Most people don't watch more than 1 game a weekend. People that do, maybe watch a couple other good games. Noone tries to watch every game. It's far more about following your favorite team than just anything that's on.
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On May 07 2014 02:50 Targe wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:06 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 02:04 Targe wrote:On May 07 2014 02:02 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule. what happened to sc2? you cant say its bullshit when its already happened once I got tired of constantly watching sc2 long long time ago. The better example would be CS:GO scene, I believe. People should understand that MORE tournaments always mean MORE great games and not the other way around. whats the point in having more good games if you dont give a shit about them?
I believe that well-educated viewers prioritize great games among almost everything else. If the hype is more important for you than the content, it's just your own preference, don't extrapolate it all over the community.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
Most people I know who watch football will watch a couple weekend games and then match of the day to hear about games they couldnt watch/werent interested but turned out alright
no one is really going to watch sunderland cardiff or something unless they support those teams or it will affect their team, there will likely be other games to watch whilst that match is on, just like people in dota arent going to watch Nyx Ehug just because its there, theyll look for teams they want to watch.
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I'll watch nyx-ehug when its the international qualifers tho :3
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On May 07 2014 23:51 Targe wrote:
Most people I know who watch football will watch a couple weekend games and then match of the day to hear about games they couldnt watch/werent interested but turned out alright
no one is really going to watch sunderland cardiff or something unless they support those teams or it will affect their team, there will likely be other games to watch whilst that match is on, just like people in dota arent going to watch Nyx Ehug just because its there, theyll look for teams they want to watch.
Are you talking just about the Premier League? Because there are often other top rated tournaments going on. Look at a random sunday for example:
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/match/index.html?type=fixtures
You can easily watch 3 or 4 games a day with decent teams on weeked, if you wanted to.
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United Kingdom14103 Posts
On May 07 2014 23:55 Sn0_Man wrote:
I'll watch nyx-ehug when its the international qualifers tho :3
this is my point about me only caring about the international, i feel the same
On May 07 2014 23:58 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 23:51 Targe wrote:
Most people I know who watch football will watch a couple weekend games and then match of the day to hear about games they couldnt watch/werent interested but turned out alright
no one is really going to watch sunderland cardiff or something unless they support those teams or it will affect their team, there will likely be other games to watch whilst that match is on, just like people in dota arent going to watch Nyx Ehug just because its there, theyll look for teams they want to watch. Are you talking just about the Premier League? Because there are often other top rated tournaments going on. Look at a random sunday for example: http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/match/index.html?type=fixturesYou can easily watch 3 or 4 games a day with decent teams on weeked, if you wanted to.
and lots of my friends dedicate their weekend afternoons either at the pub or on their sofa for this reason
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On May 07 2014 23:47 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On May 07 2014 02:50 Targe wrote:On May 07 2014 02:06 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 02:04 Targe wrote:On May 07 2014 02:02 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On May 07 2014 00:41 DavoS wrote:
You're not wrong. I don't completely agree with the idea that there's too many major tournaments though, I think it's more that they're all scheduling for the exact same times. When Starladder had their big LAN finals, it was a huge hit. I think a big reason for that is there was a clear champion that was going to emerge from that event, and you had the emotion of the live audience and seeing the players in front of you. Whereas all these other cups having nothing but group stages after group stages after group stages doesn't give them anything worth watching.
Looking at this summer's major LAN events, there's ESL One, Dreamhack (I think?), The Summit (I think?) and TI, correctly called the Holy Grail of eSports in this article, all in the span of a few weeks. That's not good. Viewers are going to be burned out. I already know I'm not watching Dreamhack or The Summit because I don't want to spend that much time watching these events.
Imagine if The Summit's LAN was happening right now. There would be no question as to what to watch. Or imagine if ESL happened in August or September after the TI hype had cooled off. The focus would be entirely on that event, instead of it being a really well organized proving ground for TI.
I think JoinDota, ESL, BTS, Valve, Dreamhack, and MLG should be working together to share time throughout the year for events instead of cramming them all together and fighting for viewers by offering nothing but group stages with some textural differences between them, followed by super hyped LAN finals all coming one after the other. Valve is still handling their event like bosses (Valve is smart like that), but all these other event organizers are not working to create any kind of cohesion in the scene That's bullshit, tbh. I enjoy this kind of schedule. what happened to sc2? you cant say its bullshit when its already happened once I got tired of constantly watching sc2 long long time ago. The better example would be CS:GO scene, I believe. People should understand that MORE tournaments always mean MORE great games and not the other way around. whats the point in having more good games if you dont give a shit about them? I believe that well-educated viewers prioritize great games among almost everything else. If the hype is more important for you than the content, it's just your own preference, don't extrapolate it all over the community.
If people prioritized great games over everything else, Live Viewership would be shit and everyone would just go to VoDs. Because obviously you don't know a game is great until it's happened.
But that's not what happens, so obviously what you believe means absolutely nothing.
More tournaments at once = more games that people don't watch. The numbers don't lie.
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EPT
