...or Fantasy books written by female authors, hopefully with female characters.
So another break from ye ol' Design Blogs and to be honest, I think there will be no more.
What follows is a series of mini-reviews of books I've read in the last... months? I think since the beginning of 2014.
Background I had realized that similar to my sci-fi reading habits, I tend to read an inch wide and a mile deep (to reverse the saying.) That is, I tend to read a ton from a select author and not much else. So everything by Tolkien, CS Lewis, and Stephen R Lawhead. A lot of Terry Brooks, I gave up on GRRM middle through the 3rd, and I've been ploughing my way through Robert Jordan. But as the regional, public library didn't have Knife of Dreams, and it was taking me some time to find a copy, I thought it was time to expand my horizons and see what the fantasy genre as a whole contained.
Critieria: 1) Rather than getting bogged down into one series, I committed to reading only one out of a series and just keep dancing on to a different author. 2) As I am revising my own story, and was feeling rather unconfident about my female characters, I wanted to see what were the differences, if any, of female characters written by female authors in the fantasy genre.
The Mini-Reviews (In order read) WARNING- I am not particularly concerned about revealing Spoilers, so there may or not be Spoilers. Proceed with caution. (Although I did spoiler all the mini-reviews so the blog takes up less space)
This was a decent book that I was tempted to read further. It felt like there was some significant history/ backstory, but if I understand correctly that backstory might just be referencing earlier novels. I liked the transition of Marla, the main character from a bit of a naive, air-head to a ruthless ruler. On the other hand, there's something about it that didn't sit right with me. Fallon is going for a 'dark/ grim' story line in the same sort of vein as GRRM. But sometimes it felt over-cruel without feeling gritty.
Elezear the Dwarf's Rules of Gaining and Wielding Power- while I'm sure he's just making them up just so he can survive another day- it just sounds silly. Like those get rich, self-help books that those multi-millionaires always try and sell you.
The political intrigue was interesting, but I was disappointed the young mage guy got derailed by some Greek-type trickster god and wound up a thief.
While I had some problems with it, the best I can best I can say is that I was tempted to read more. But she's not breaking my top 10 any time soon.
I'm glad I didn't read more of Fallon, because I wouldn't have across Hobb as fast. And I understand from Goodreads, Dragon Keeper isn't her best work.
Hobb presented a new world that I was fascinated with from the outset. I guess this is deep into her long running series, but I could jump in to this book easily. I loved how thought out the dragon life-cycle from serpent to dragon was. And the grim feeling the line of dragons is failing. The contemporary dragons end up being so gimpy, but I genuinely felt for these dragons that knew they were not all that they should be.
I liked how Hobb had thought out what impact a giant brood of dragons would have on the local environment and economy when the dragons that are supposed to be able to fly away, just stick around, wasting away.
I was a little meh with Thymara, the 11 year wild child with claws and the merchant captain Leftrin. But I quite liked Alise, a woman trapped in a loveless marriage of convenience, who is perhaps the most competent scholar on dragons, but is hindered by societal expectations. I was so relieved on her behalf when she could finally DO some of the things she wanted.
Every chapter starts with these little messages that are sent by pigeons between two of the major cities. At first I thought it was a rather neat way to provide big picture information outside of the restricted points of views. (Especially because I had just read Bernhard Cornwall's The Fort that began each chapter with actual, historical quotations from his sources. Very good book, btw.)
But then it got HILARIOUS because each note had an official message and then the pigeon keepers were having their own private converstion back and forth. But then two-thirds one of the messages goes to the wrong city and a third keeper chimes in with 'Hai guis, you're not supposed to use official communication for your own private use' and then the other two messengers get super pissy with the third keeper. Fun times.
The 'ending' is rather abrupt, but I guess it is a trilogy. I would definitely read more of Robin Hobb.
This was super confusing to figure out which was the first book in the series. I finally figured out that the original series had been renamed and then reissued in the States, but there was little to indicate that. In the meantime, I had bought one from a second hand bookstore (big mistake) and signed out another. (I thought I could risk it because I was having such good success so far. It couldn't be THAT bad if I ended up not liking it...)
The beginning was intriguing enough with some creepy times in the snowy storm with a really gross birthing of some demon child and then other ice ghost type things.
...And then. This book. First the names. Axis the BattleAxe of the Battle-Axes. That sounds really silly. The Minas Tirith equivalent is called Gorkenfort. How does that not sound gorky? That might not seem a big deal, but bad names bother me. Then you get StarDrifter and StarMan. Dunno. Just doesn't seem right. But then you get Priam along side Timozel and Jayme and Gilbert. The names are just all over the place from Greek to modern to fantastic.
I don't mind books with prophecy. But this one is touching on all the tropes and was not very enjoyable. One prophecy requires the principal female character to get married off to some jerk simply so two brothers don't go to war and off she goes with little protest. You might think she's going for the 'life sucks and everyone dies' and grey morality thing, but the characters are pretty clearly divided into white hats and black hats in my opinion. And not a very interesting female character.
The other thing that really through me for a loop is the PoV switches. It didn't bother me for awhile and maybe she was going for third person Omnisicient, which was novel as I'm not sure I've read Omniscient before. But I don't think it was well-executed if it was intentional. I found it very disconcerting leaping from one character to the next between paragraphs without (it seemed to be me) much rhyme or reason. I think the book would have been far stronger had Douglas limited her view points and really thought about how to get across the same information without whiplashing the reader from character to character.
The cover had always intrigued me when browsing the libraries, but I'm afraid it is a waste of good cover.
I did not enjoy the story; it was a chore to complete. I regret buying this book and sent the library book back unread.
This was a light read- more in the vein of Narnia. I enjoyed it, but we ended in a very different place then we started. MAJOR SPOILERS AHEAD
I guess the introduction should've tipped me off. I almost thought I was reading the wrong book, because it was describing a very sci-fi backstory. We start with a dying breed of dragons/ dragon riders in medieval type castles and end with time travelling dragons and flamethrowers. I was along for the ride because it was well told and McCaffery was careful to set up her twists that they certainly didn't come from nowhere.
I don't particularly care for time travelling books, but it was well told. I just wish I knew where that spunky Lessa had disappeared by the end of the book. The beginning was very interesting as we basically had the true heir to the throne undermining her conquerors like Chinese water torture, small drips at a time. But once Lessa get's recruited by the dragon riders... that version of the girl just vanishes. Honestly, I could have read an entire book of Lessa undermining the palace from the inside to finally overthrowing her enemies at the end. This is actually a common issue I've noticed- by the third act, the previously spunky female runs out of things to do. (See the film Dragonslayer for example- though it is an otherwise interesting film.)
As an aside, all the apostrophe'd names bothered me. Maybe just because, but I don't really like apostrophe in the names. Maybe because I've read too many Grand and Not So Grand lists of Fantasy cliches.
I'm not sure I would I would read anymore just due to time travel, but I don't regret reading it.
I was looking for a different book and just grabbed this one at random from the library. Gah. This was terrible. I got 50 pages in and abandoned it. How she is a "National Bestseller Author" is beyond me.
Again. Names. How does a world have Prince of Tajrana and Queen of Nharkhava along side a 'distant cousin Aaron?'
"Some call me... Tim?"
And I guess "Saeton Daemon SaDiablo" is supposed to be bad? (Actually possibly not given the story.) But more than the highly fantastical names along side mundane modern names, all the Random capitals was really too Much. Whether it was Black Jewels or Craft of Coach or Blood, it seemed every other sentence had a random Noun capitalized. Possibly because they are Important, but I found it annoying similar to the random bolded words in Archie-type comics.
But far worse than that is the amount of vocab of concepts that require background knowledge that I had little idea what was going on. This is deep in the series, though I don't think the series is very deep. But unlike Robb or even Fallon I was not eased into this world in away that allowed understanding of what all these words mean. The author, I guess, just assumed I would know? I started understanding what it all meant by the end, but it was poorly done.
But by far the worst of it was the lack of description. Bishop would give mention to a Hall I guess basically in demon land, but no mood was given. Given the names, I thought maybe comic. Given the people's 'race', maybe creepy. Perhaps the Hall was some sort of Civil War era creepy mansion? But I had nothing to go one. No description of the Gateways, nothing. All I could think of is how much more atmosphere I could give this book and how poorly the story was executed. The characters basically exist in blanks space and that is hardly interesting to me.
Then things got squicky/rapey and then I stopped.
I do not recommend and I would never try her again.
Concluding Observations So far I don't really see much difference between females written by male authors or female authors. So far the the female character's are just as likely to disappear in the third act and I haven't found a female character that can match Sanderson's Vin (in the first Mistborn book, anyways). Though I think I might find an equal in Hobb, if I continue reading her works.
I would say that 100% of the books read had a significant birth compared to male authored books- not in the sense that it takes up chapters, but that it happened 'on screen' to either a significant character or was significant to the plot. Except maybe Anne Bishop, but I didn't get that far. For some reason this stood out on front and centre birth was compared to 'random sidequest birth, offscreen' that you might get in Paolini or something.
Maybe it was just the fantasy I was reading before, these books were perhaps 80%* more likely to have sexy times. Except when it is squicky in which it is not sexy at all. Blah and gross, BIIIIIIISHOP!
In conclusion, I think I'm back to where I started. Which is a paraphrase of Brandon Sanderson's Writing Excuses. What makes an interesting character is that they are competent at something. They might have a whole lot of faults, but when they are competent at something, you can get behind them. I think that's why I rallied behind Hobb's Alice. She was just so passionate about dragon lore and carefully collecting what she could find. At times she erred on academic rather than practical, but she would course correct. There was something very endearing about her journey to leave her old life and finally do what she always wanted to do.
I also think there are a reason the big guns are the big guns in fantasy. The rest so far can't quite measure up (even to Robert Jordan, which I find problematic in how long-winded he is)
Not sure how long I'll continue this particular venture, but I still want to read something by Ursula K Le Guin and I am debating about Zimmerman because I'm not sure how much I want to read more Arthurian stuff. Any good author recommendations? (I should say I've already read Madeleine L'Engle- I liked the Wrinkle In Time stuff, although it has been a long time since I have read them.)
Just keep in mind, my high bar of fantasy is JRR Tolkien, not former/ borderline-romance novelists. Those covers would scare me off pretty quick. I will probably never read Jaqueline Carey for instance. By default, I prefer historical-fiction over fantasy (Bernhard Cornwall, CS Forester) so to me good fantasy feels like historical fiction.
And yes, y0su. I my title was a little bit of click bait...
Have you read Hobb's Assassin Trilogy (trilogies, I suppose) yet? This blog seems to indicate that you've not, so I suppose the best I could say is do it. I mean like, now. I enjoyed them a great deal more than her other works, and by the looks of it we have fairly similar tastes.
hm... i never imagined i could take female scifi/fantasy writers seriously until ursula le guin's left hand of darkness. even while reading it i wasn't terribly impressed, until almost towards the end when i felt chills running down my spine. it was a long while ago and i should reread it before i recommend it now but my opinion of it was quite high.
I've read several of Anne McAffrey's Dragonrider books but never really got into them that much, there was something not particularly riveting about most of them.
Mistborn is an EXCELLENT series, particularly the first one. Once it became more about the overall picture, I actually disliked it more than when it was "zoomed in" on particular characters.
I would definitely read more of Robin Hobb, and I'll definitely put the Assassin Trilogy on my list, and I'll see about Left Hand of Darkness. Partially it's contingent on the regional library, but we'll see.
Yeah, I agree about Mistborn. I've read the first two and I have the third sitting on my shelf. But I could read that court intrigue by day, fantasy-Jedi by night stuff all day. Once they broke out of the first book, I definitely missed the Ocean's 11 feel to the first book. Obviously, an author can't spin their wheels and rewrite the same story again and again (Brian Jacques in his later years), but there was a magic something missing in the second.
try the dragon knight series by Gordon R. Dickson. great really funny and lighthearted series with magic, dragons and a cool combination of magic and dark ages era politics.
It's hard to explain without plot spoliers but its easily my favorite fantasy series (time travel plays a bit in the first book but only the first book). Not sure how you feel about modern characters being transported to fantasy worlds but if you can stand It I really suggest you give it a try
for the most part the books stand alone and are easy to jump into without having read the previous ones.
It is a lot less serious than your traditional fantasy series though
When I hadn't read as much fantasy yet I liked the Black Magician Trilogy from Trudi Canavan which has a female main character. It probably isn't deep but I enjoyed it.
More recently I enjoyed the Raksura Trilogy from Martha Wells, it has a male as the main character but important female characters as well. The main race also isn't human which I thought was very interesting.
I also liked Ursula Le Guins: The Dispossessed and The Left Hand of Darkness (already mentioned), but those are more sci-fi than fantasy.
If you liked Brandon Sandersons Mistborn trilogy I assume you've also read "Alloy of Law"? I liked that one better than parts 2 and 3 of the trilogy (I vaguely recall)
But I'm also one of the few people that can't get into Robin Hobbs Assassin trilogy.
On March 28 2014 05:38 Thrill wrote: I don't get it. You gave up on ASoIAF which undoubtedly has the best female characters?
As for female authors i liked Margaret Weise & Tracy Hickman.
I suspect my opinion on ASoIAF is in the minority, but I ran out of vaguely sympathetic characters except maybe Arya by that point. Also, I couldn't stand the sexual violence. The series is well written which is why I got as far as I did. (I abandoned ship on Stephen R Donaldson immediately- call me a sensitive soul, but despite it not being terribley graphic, I lost all interest just on the concept.) GRRM created a bleak series and not in away that I enjoy.
Hm. Maybe some people didn't like getting tricked by the title...
Have you've tried K. J. Parker (pseudonym, but most in the fantasy circle consider him/her a she)? There's a limit to how much grit I can handle (which Parker often surpasses), but Sharps and The Engineer Trilogy were interesting enough.
As far as handling of characterization, I've only read a few female authors and they didn't seem to write female characters all too different. Not sure if it's confirmation bias, but the male characters seem to have a lot more inner monologues.
I would recommend Tehanu by Ursula Le Guin but it probably requires reading the other three Earthsea books first (in particular The Tombs of Atuan as it deals with the same characters). What I liked about Tehanu in particular was that it was small local fantasy. It's set on one small island, there's no saving the world or anything, it's just one small event in a larger world.
The Wayfarer Redemption always intrigued me because of that cover too, it's a painting by Luis Royo. However I've read poor reviews for it before so left it.
Try The Golem and the Jinni by Helene Wecker. It is Fantasy in the beginning 20th century. In some parts astonishing good.
Of course, The Blind Assassin from Margaret Atwood. It is not really Fantasy, but has a sci-fi or fantasy pulp-story in it. The whole book is a masterpiece, in its structure and prose.
On March 28 2014 04:40 intrigue wrote: hm... i never imagined i could take female scifi/fantasy writers seriously until ursula le guin's left hand of darkness. even while reading it i wasn't terribly impressed, until almost towards the end when i felt chills running down my spine. it was a long while ago and i should reread it before i recommend it now but my opinion of it was quite high.
On March 28 2014 05:38 Thrill wrote: I don't get it. You gave up on ASoIAF which undoubtedly has the best female characters?
As for female authors i liked Margaret Weise & Tracy Hickman.
I suspect my opinion on ASoIAF is in the minority, but I ran out of vaguely sympathetic characters except maybe Arya by that point. Also, I couldn't stand the sexual violence. The series is well written which is why I got as far as I did. (I abandoned ship on Stephen R Donaldson immediately- call me a sensitive soul, but despite it not being terribley graphic, I lost all interest just on the concept.) GRRM created a bleak series and not in away that I enjoy.
Hm. Maybe some people didn't like getting tricked by the title...
I have to agree with this sadly. I still read it to the end but it was disappointing that my favourite chars all died, lol. Always reading stuff of Cersei was just making me mad, such a stupid person. Haha.
On March 28 2014 05:40 Wesso wrote: When I hadn't read as much fantasy yet I liked the Black Magician Trilogy from Trudi Canavan which has a female main character. It probably isn't deep but I enjoyed it.
Pretty much spot on. I like Trudi Canavan books but they aren't deep or clever.
In a similar vein, Lian Hearn's Otori books are a Japanese fantasy series (I'm pretty sure for young adults) that I enjoyed as a kid.
Jennifer Fallon's Medalon series is a lot better than Wolfblade. IIRC, it's a sequel series to Wolfblade, but it was published before Wolfblade in the US because it's better.
Naomi Novik's Temeraire series is a good read, the first few books at least. You could definitely just read the first and forget the rest exist, although the 2-4th books are fine too.
Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman have written a ton of books, some of which are pretty good. Tracy Hickman is actually a dude though. I'd suggest the Deathgate Cycle (2nd book is the weakest), and the 80s Dragonlance Chronicles/Legends books.
Although come to think of it, Novik and Weis's books have male characters in all the lead roles. Might not be so useful for your purposes.
Digging through my ancient Goodreads list, I found Patricia C. Wrede's Enchanted Forest Chronicles, which I remember liking as a kid. It has a female main character at least!
It's not technically a book, but I strongly recommend the now completed web serial Worm for strong female characters (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/). It's Urban/superhero fantasy rather than high fantasy, but the main character is female, it's long, and I enjoyed most of it a lot.
On March 28 2014 10:26 Elyvilon wrote: It's not technically a book, but I strongly recommend the now completed web serial Worm for strong female characters (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/). It's Urban/superhero fantasy rather than high fantasy, but the main character is female, it's long, and I enjoyed most of it a lot.
+1 to this, I'm a quick reader but it took me like two weeks of reading every spare minute I had to get through this (maybe exaggerating a bit ) and I was reading every spare minute because I was hooked, it's an excellent book/series.
A friend of mine read some Trudi Canavaran series a while back, she doesn't normally read fantasy but she liked it in a light-reading/timewaster kind of way.
Which I suspect means there isn't a terrible lot of, well, actual fantasy parts and more about characters and character relations. But since you seem to be looking for that you can give it a try.
I feel a bit hesitant recommending something I didn't even read myself, but there you go.
On March 28 2014 10:26 Elyvilon wrote: It's not technically a book, but I strongly recommend the now completed web serial Worm for strong female characters (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/). It's Urban/superhero fantasy rather than high fantasy, but the main character is female, it's long, and I enjoyed most of it a lot.
+1 to this, I'm a quick reader but it took me like two weeks of reading every spare minute I had to get through this (maybe exaggerating a bit ) and I was reading every spare minute because I was hooked, it's an excellent book/series.
Are you reading Pact? I thought it started kind of weak, but I think it's gotten better.
I strongly recommend The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon for an epic story featuring a strong female lead. It's a very good read. It's technically a trilogy, and there's another relatively recent series made as a sequel series to continue the story. My personal opinion is that while the Deed is absolutely fantastic as a self-contained story, the recent series seems less polished. It could be because the final story hasn't been finished, but there are some things happening in the story that don't make a lot of sense.
I'd recommend David Gemmell, easily my favorite. Heroic fantasy with a historical feel. I've read most of the authors in OP and just don't find them as good as the best male authors. They tend to write more emotional/moody characters and focus less on the political/martial aspects that draw me to fantasy. Also tend to end up as longwinded melodramas.
On March 28 2014 04:40 intrigue wrote: hm... i never imagined i could take female scifi/fantasy writers seriously until ursula le guin's left hand of darkness. even while reading it i wasn't terribly impressed, until almost towards the end when i felt chills running down my spine. it was a long while ago and i should reread it before i recommend it now but my opinion of it was quite high.
You should check out Ursala K. Leguin's Earthsea trilogy. It's really good. Also, apparently there are another three books that come after, that were written later on. I haven't read them, but I've hear they are not as good as the first 3.
On March 28 2014 12:51 Durenas wrote: I strongly recommend The Deed of Paksenarrion by Elizabeth Moon for an epic story featuring a strong female lead.
Seconded. It was my favourite book for several years.
As for female authors in fantasy. Maybe try Marion Zimmer Bradley's Darkover universe. Some 20 books that was written in a semi SF setting with magic. Some books are pure fantasy, others a mix. They are a bit different in that they are oldish and written by somebody that (I feel) was fighting for female rights we now have. The writing isn't the best. The ideas and setting are among the most compelling for me.
I see that Hobb's earlier books have been suggested but I just want to insert the caveat that her Assassin books while better in my opinion lack that 'female main character' you seemed to be looking for. Her Liveship trilogy does feature that though, and I'd definite compare Althea to Arya in some ways.
Either way all her books in the Rainwilds world are good.
I also highly, highly recommend Guy Gavriel Kay if you're looking for something different. His Fionavar trilogy is very Tolkien-esque (mainly because he worked on The Silmarillion with Christopher Tolkien) but in a good way. Among his historical fantasy books keeping strong female characters in mind I would recommend The Lions of Al-Rassan and the Sarantine Mosaic. The former has a female doctor who holds down one part of the triangle, while the latter has a character based on Empress Theodora of the Byzantine Empire.
I love Anne McCaffrey and Sara Douglass, both great series. Read them about 10 years ago, should probably dig them out again and give it another go. I prefer the Starman Trilogy and that Universe over the wayfair redemption from Douglass and the McCaffrey series really takes a big sci-fi turn later on in the series + Show Spoiler +
ends up going back in time and showing when mankind landed on the planet and bioengineered the dragons from lizards to fight the spores, interesting stuff....yeah think I am digging that series out again.
I quite enjoyed Penhaligon trilogy from D.J. Heinrich. The author was a female, although apparently, she was asked to use an pseudonym.
It has a strong main female character, and except first book, there's not all that much importance put on the love-mush mush stuff involved, which I quite liked. And even in the first book, it's quite decent and bearable. I personally find too much romance in fantasy/sci-fi as lame.. if I wanted to read that kind of stuff, I'd read appropriate literature, not sci-fi/fantasy. But, this trilogy in particular, I loved and still re-read it from time to time.
On March 28 2014 10:26 Elyvilon wrote: It's not technically a book, but I strongly recommend the now completed web serial Worm for strong female characters (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/). It's Urban/superhero fantasy rather than high fantasy, but the main character is female, it's long, and I enjoyed most of it a lot.
+1 to this, I'm a quick reader but it took me like two weeks of reading every spare minute I had to get through this (maybe exaggerating a bit ) and I was reading every spare minute because I was hooked, it's an excellent book/series.
Are you reading Pact? I thought it started kind of weak, but I think it's gotten better.
I haven't started, although I may during university break. We'll see
Only female fantasy author I ever liked is Ursula K. Le Guin (Earthsea). Granted I have not read all too much. I remember female authors from the books my mother read, all this pseudo historic middle ages stuff. All a load of crap, so I am really not much inclined to go into that direction.
You should try anything by Mary Shelley, most famous for Frankenstein and an adaptation of Dracula. She is one of the best novelists of her time (1850's) and wrote both fantasy and sci-fi novels, sometimes wrapped up in to one book i.e Frankenstein.
mm. Yes, I should read something by Mary Shelley. I also just finished Dracula by Bram Stoker and quite liked it.
I have read the first Hunger Games book. It was weird though because I had watched the film first and there really was nothing new to read, the film was suprisingly faithful. Except maybe, there was a little more survival stuff in the actual Games. Weird experience. Light reading, but enjoyable.
Want to pull for Diana Wynne Jones, who is criminally underrated.
She doesn't write epic high fantasy but she is an amazing author and writes amazing stories. Primarily wrote for YA audience, but I don;t think that's necessarily a detriment against her (she has some adult targeted works as well). She is also very well steeped in the fantasy tradition, and a lot of her works parody traditional tropes in very clever and humorous ways. I would recommend you try reading Dark Lord of Derkholm (as a bonus, it has carnivorous sheep :3).
On March 29 2014 02:51 Falling wrote: Haha. Is that the origin of your name?
It wasn't, but imagine my pleasure when I came across the following passage:
"It was only when Shona, in sheer fury, turned the carnivorous sheep among them that they moved. They ran, some of them with charming little white sheep attached to their legs or backsides and the rest shouting about monsters."
Ah, I finally got why people thought the title was misleading. Was probably the 20:th time I read it.
To keep on topic, Trudi Canavan has a few good books, is female and has females as lead characters. All series are good but I myself preferred the Age of the Five series. (Notice I did not use a strong adjective about the books, worth reading/buying but not the best anybody will read.)
On March 29 2014 01:42 Falling wrote: mm. Yes, I should read something by Mary Shelley. I also just finished Dracula by Bram Stoker and quite liked it.
I have read the first Hunger Games book. It was weird though because I had watched the film first and there really was nothing new to read, the film was suprisingly faithful. Except maybe, there was a little more survival stuff in the actual Games. Weird experience. Light reading, but enjoyable.
I found the first person narrative a bit jarring at first but once i got used to it, it was great. I haven't actually read them but rather listened to audio books, as is my preference these days, and having a womans voice lent itself well to the first person style of the book. The films are indeed very faithful to the books, something i wish they had done with Harry Potter lol.
The Wayfarer Redemption has a lot of shit going on and can be hard to keep track of but it all falls into place in the 3rd book. I remember just being like wtf, how in the hell did she tie all this shit together. I read it a long time ago, This has inspired me to revisit it again once i finish my second read of Song of Ice and Fire.
“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.” - George RR Martin
Part of the beauty of Martins characters is they actually make oyu hate them. And don't give up on the characters, he has a way of changing them completely and showing totally different sides of them.
It's not really fantasy, but I have a particular interest in female characters done well/interestingly in science fiction. Of all the books I've read, I think the Diamond Age stands out the most, it has two extremely interesting and well written female characters who are kind of in utter opposition from a cultural perspective, one is a fairly conservatively centered motherly type, the other basically fits no female (or male) stereotypes beyond protagonist ones. This is in part because of the premise of the book, but also I think just an excellently written story of the development of a woman amongst various cultures that still single out women but who just never gets 'put in her place' successfully and ends up being a severe badass (once again, not in the masochistic/masculine way).
If you're into interestingly written books centering around women in the SF/F space, Diamond Age is a real pearl.
On March 28 2014 04:59 Falling wrote: I would definitely read more of Robin Hobb, and I'll definitely put the Assassin Trilogy on my list, and I'll see about Left Hand of Darkness. Partially it's contingent on the regional library, but we'll see.
Yeah, I agree about Mistborn. I've read the first two and I have the third sitting on my shelf. But I could read that court intrigue by day, fantasy-Jedi by night stuff all day. Once they broke out of the first book, I definitely missed the Ocean's 11 feel to the first book. Obviously, an author can't spin their wheels and rewrite the same story again and again (Brian Jacques in his later years), but there was a magic something missing in the second.
Hobb is my favorite fantasy writer after Pratchett. All of her series (including those made under a pseudo) a outstanding but I wouldn't have started with the book you took. The events there are taking place somewhat far into the main storyline.
Anyone else like the Nightrunner books by Lynn Flewelling? Although the main characters are male they are gay. It's a really good series though imo. Much better than most of the generic stuff out there. I personally loved the whole world and the cool story. The side-characters were a bit lackluster unfortunately but I rarely care about characters anyways. The badguys were really good though.
On March 29 2014 13:50 insectoceanx wrote: The Wayfarer Redemption has a lot of shit going on and can be hard to keep track of but it all falls into place in the 3rd book. I remember just being like wtf, how in the hell did she tie all this shit together. I read it a long time ago, This has inspired me to revisit it again once i finish my second read of Song of Ice and Fire.
“I can describe an axe entering a human skull in great explicit detail and no one will blink twice at it. I provide a similar description, just as detailed, of a penis entering a vagina, and I get letters about it and people swearing off. To my mind this is kind of frustrating, it’s madness. Ultimately, in the history of [the] world, penises entering vaginas have given a lot of people a lot of pleasure; axes entering skulls, well, not so much.” - George RR Martin
Part of the beauty of Martins characters is they actually make oyu hate them. And don't give up on the characters, he has a way of changing them completely and showing totally different sides of them.
re: Wayfarers. I honestly thought the plot was pretty straightforward. If anything, the world felt pretty empty except when they ran into pockets of people, hidden or otherwise.
I guess by that quote, you and GRRM suggest there is a sort of double standard. Maybe there is. But I don't actually like graphically written violence either, so it's more a case of soldiering on until the cumulative effect reached a tipping point. But I really, really don't care to read about rape detailed or not. Donaldson's was not graphic at all, but I stopped immediately. The fact that I lasted 2.5 books with Martin is a testament to his skill as a writer. I'm not writing angry letters to him... I just stopped. He has the right to write that stuff, but I don't have to enjoy or read it either.
I could see how he was going to recontextualize Jayme, but I don't care for it. When I say I ran out of vaguely sympathetic characters, I mean that. Trying to describe the feeling... it's like Martin boiled 30 years of selfishness and violence backstabbing and other evil acts down and condensed them down to a couple years (whatever is the time frame of the book,) but in the process he boiled off all virtue, compassion, and... joy out of those same 30 years. It's very bleak. Lord Stark was only vaguely sympathetic to begin with- he is on Team Justice or maybe Lawful Stupid. But he is not compassionate- from the last name and his opening scene, I don't think we're meant to think that. He's inflexible and is more akin to Stannis then you would otherwise think.
Compassion for another hardly exists in Martin's universe. I think the bleakest thing about GRRM's universe is that from the highest king to the lowliest peasant is just trying to maneuvre to get what's best for them. There is no virtue, no idealism (not counting Stark's inflexible, short-sighted contingency plan as 'idealism'), no compassion, no goodness. If the Nazis conquered GRRM's land, prince to pauper they would all sell out their neighbours and no-one would've hidden the Jews. Everyone's a Machiavellian. That sort of self-sacrifice doesn't exist in his universe, and that is very depressing to read just because self-interest and backstabbing are so all encompassing. I don't need knights in white shining armour, but I do need even just a sliver a moonlight- there isn't even that for me.
As a side note, I do think one's capacity to continue reading is somewhat contingent on how compelling a character you think Tyrion is. I never did. Plus Dany's plot was going no-where after 2.5 books, and I was meh on Jon's storyline.
I'm currently reading Song of Ice and Fire and I agree with you Falling. Somehow it remains compelling all the same... As selfish and unpleasant as all the people are, I still want to see what happens to Tyrion, Brienne etc. I guess you're right that that is testament to his skill as a writer.
They are great books in many ways but on the topic of female characters they are refreshing for their... neutrality of perspective? They include romance and sex at times, but in a way that makes it feel like something exciting happening to the characters, not the sole reason why they're there. Of course it's hard to pin down why you get that vibe sometimes (from both male and female authors), and what the difference is. In the case of Le Guin I think it's just part of her overall great humanity and ability to relate characters in a way that creates both familiarity and deeper reflection.
On March 28 2014 22:25 Andre wrote: Symphony of Ages by Elizabeth Haydon is the best fantasy book I've read that's written by a female author and stars a female protagonist.
It's a bit sugar-coated in some parts as romance is featured heavily, but the world and the characters are really interesting.
I agree with this for the most part. I enjoyed the world and a lot of characters greatly, and it's a good read, even if the main character is a little bit "girly" or mary sue. I guess it makes the books not as dark as they could have been, and that's not a bad thing about it. It's not close from my top 3 fantasy series but it was worth the read.
Have you read the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss? You didn't mention him in your "background" section, and if you haven't read it yet you definitely should. The series is focused tightly on one character and I found refreshing in comparison to stuff like ASoIaF and WoT.
I have not read Rothfuss as of yet. But I have seen his name here and elsewhere, so I will definitely check him out. I'm making a library run sometime this week, so I expect I'll have a couple more to read soon.
On March 31 2014 11:10 Veles wrote: Have you read the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss? You didn't mention him in your "background" section, and if you haven't read it yet you definitely should. The series is focused tightly on one character and I found refreshing in comparison to stuff like ASoIaF and WoT.
On March 31 2014 12:36 Falling wrote: I have not read Rothfuss as of yet. But I have seen his name here and elsewhere, so I will definitely check him out. I'm making a library run sometime this week, so I expect I'll have a couple more to read soon.
Haven't read it but from I hear it's basically the opposite of "female fantasy" lol.
On March 31 2014 11:10 Veles wrote: Have you read the name of the wind by Patrick Rothfuss? You didn't mention him in your "background" section, and if you haven't read it yet you definitely should. The series is focused tightly on one character and I found refreshing in comparison to stuff like ASoIaF and WoT.
On March 31 2014 12:36 Falling wrote: I have not read Rothfuss as of yet. But I have seen his name here and elsewhere, so I will definitely check him out. I'm making a library run sometime this week, so I expect I'll have a couple more to read soon.
Haven't read it but from I hear it's basically the opposite of "female fantasy" lol.
The story has some grit, but the mood isn't bleak like in asoiaf. A more qualified description of the series is "adventure fantasy".
On March 31 2014 13:13 RuiBarbO wrote: I'm surprised that Tamora Pierce isn't on that list. Prolific and skillful fantasy writer who's written some compelling female leads.
I enjoyed those series when I was younger, they were recommended to me by a female teacher so maybe they have merit beyond YA fiction.
this thread has inspired me to go out and actively sek books written by women. I've read hundreds of books and I honestly dont think a single one of them was written by a woman. Is that sexist?
On April 01 2014 09:09 MaRCsoN wrote: this thread has inspired me to go out and actively sek books written by women. I've read hundreds of books and I honestly dont think a single one of them was written by a woman. Is that sexist?
No mentions of Jacqueline Carey, Elizabeth Moon, Elizabeth Haydon, CS Friedman, or URSULA K LE GUINuntil the last page? Sad. Patricia McKillip and Robin Hobb too.
Well... I had said I read Robin Hobb. Intended to read Ursula (although it looks like I'll have to request because my local branch has nothing of her) and I said I probably would never read Carey.
On April 01 2014 12:59 Falling wrote: Well... I had said I read Robin Hobb. Intended to read Ursula (although it looks like I'll have to request because my local branch has nothing of her) and I said I probably would never read Carey.
Why not Carey? The sex a bit much for you? That's the only complaint I've ever gotten for her and I understand why.
I think LeGuin's books are like 5$ on amazon.
And shit. I totally forgot Naomi Novik, I'm really surprised I haven't seen anyone mention Temaraire. It's historical fiction/fantasy. Starts right before Trafalgar in Napoleonic era but has dragons.
I'm a total fan of Ursula K. Le Guin and would really recommend The Dispossessed and The Word for World is Forest. After reading almost all her books, I've read those like 3 or 4 times more. They just thrill me each time.
I read the first assassins trilogy, and while it was alright I didn't think it was that amazing. However it could be mostly personal bias, the characters were mostly good but the world didn't spark my sense of wonder much at all. I preferred the empire series cowritten by janny wurts and raymond e feist, although I'm not sure, I thought that janny wurts wrote most of it but it was raymond e feists world so he was needed for related characters and how the world worked.
On April 01 2014 21:30 Sikian wrote: I'm a total fan of Ursula K. Le Guin and would really recommend The Dispossessed and The Word for World is Forest. After reading almost all her books, I've read those like 3 or 4 times more. They just thrill me each time.
I liked The Word for World is Forest more than any of the other books I've read from her. So I can agree with that sentiment even if she is famous for other books.
On April 02 2014 02:17 Slayer91 wrote: I read the first assassins trilogy, and while it was alright I didn't think it was that amazing. However it could be mostly personal bias, the characters were mostly good but the world didn't spark my sense of wonder much at all. I preferred the empire series cowritten by janny wurts and raymond e feist, although I'm not sure, I thought that janny wurts wrote most of it but it was raymond e feists world so he was needed for related characters and how the world worked.
That is probably why it is the best book with Feists name on it. :p
On April 02 2014 02:17 Slayer91 wrote: I read the first assassins trilogy, and while it was alright I didn't think it was that amazing. However it could be mostly personal bias, the characters were mostly good but the world didn't spark my sense of wonder much at all. I preferred the empire series cowritten by janny wurts and raymond e feist, although I'm not sure, I thought that janny wurts wrote most of it but it was raymond e feists world so he was needed for related characters and how the world worked.
That's just how fantasy goes I think. If he could write good characters, I would say that Brandon Sanderson is the next Tolkien, but even though he writes such amazing settings, I don't think there's a single exceptional character in any of his books. It's sad, depressing really.
On March 28 2014 10:26 Elyvilon wrote: It's not technically a book, but I strongly recommend the now completed web serial Worm for strong female characters (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/). It's Urban/superhero fantasy rather than high fantasy, but the main character is female, it's long, and I enjoyed most of it a lot.
I don't know whether to thank you or send you a bill for my time. This has been eating up every free second of my time for the last few days, and I'm not even close to halfway done.
On March 28 2014 10:26 Elyvilon wrote: It's not technically a book, but I strongly recommend the now completed web serial Worm for strong female characters (http://parahumans.wordpress.com/category/stories-arcs-1-10/arc-1-gestation/1-01/). It's Urban/superhero fantasy rather than high fantasy, but the main character is female, it's long, and I enjoyed most of it a lot.
I don't know whether to thank you or send you a bill for my time. This has been eating up every free second of my time for the last few days, and I'm not even close to halfway done.
Heh, that's exactly what happened to me when I was introduced to it, and I felt exactly the same way.
Also, the author has started a new story(http://pactwebserial.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/bonds-1-1/). So far it's not quite as good as Worm and the beginning was especially weak, but it's been picking up and pretty good thus far.
Worm is better than I expected. It has that natural feel to it that many amateur authors do. I think it shares a bit with Samantha K.'s "A Dragon Chronicle Story" series. (Though that is [very] erotic in nature and can be found on storiesonline.)
I have only read up to 2.7 in Worm thus far, so it might diverge a lot later on.
Haha. I've read a lot of Redwall, but Brian isn't exactly a female author. That's a good book and others including Outcast, Salmandastron, Bellmaker. But my favourite is probably Pearls of Lutra. Maybe because I read it first, but it feels somehow grimmer then some of the others. Definitely lost interest by the time it hit the Legend of Luke/Taggerung as it was feeling far too same old for me.
I've discovered names can be rather tricky in determining gender. 'Morgan' I assumed was female just because I know a few female Morgan's. Turns out Morgan Howell is a guy.