Crash and Burn: I'm done waiting - Page 13

On March 12 2014 16:33 Verator wrote:
Some other points: You can't be both a leader and an introvert, these are contradictory things.

By definition a leader must be comfortable interacting with people regardless of circumstances, and tackling problems head on.

You can't possibly lead effectively until you fix that problem first.

Your blog doesn't indicate anywhere that you're actually up to the task of forcing your vision upon other people who are confident and know your shit, and will question your decisions if they think they might be wrong. Your job as a leader would be to force your vision on the others, and make them see why your decisions are right.

On March 13 2014 19:46 Erasme wrote:
holy shit i don't understand how anyone could think its a good idea to flame his teammate in a blog, then expect to be captain of any team
you do understand that with this ultimatum, you're much easier to kick right

On March 13 2014 20:40 -Celestial- wrote:
Its not a "problem". Its the way someone is and has precisely nothing to do with leadership.

On March 13 2014 21:35 SilentchiLL wrote:


TL is a very accepting place, but saying that "the way someone is" or simpler his character cannot be a problem goes a bit far, don't you think?
Him being an introvert does hinder his leadership-skills so it's not too far fetched to call it a problem, he also talked about how different he is when he plays with friends compared to how he plays with his team and that they even asked him about that, but he never actually mentioned anywhere (atleast as far as I remember) making attempts to become friends with his team, it's like he just accepted that they aren't friends and then shut down.
An extroverted person would have been a lot more likely to take action, hold out his hand to the others and befriend them and if Fluff would have done so and became their friend he probably would have felt more comfortable with being more vocal in the team and all of this could have been avoided.
From the way you talk the topic is either very important to you or you're an introvert yourself (or both), I'd give you my condolences here but I know enough introverts to know that they can be just as happy or sad as others depending on how they handle it just like everybody else needs to learn to live with (or even to enjoy) some part of their personalities, but even if you feel strongly for this those strong feelings shouldn't blind your judgement here.

On March 13 2014 21:35 SilentchiLL wrote:


TL is a very accepting place, but saying that "the way someone is" or simpler his character cannot be a problem goes a bit far, don't you think?
Him being an introvert does hinder his leadership-skills so it's not too far fetched to call it a problem, he also talked about how different he is when he plays with friends compared to how he plays with his team and that they even asked him about that, but he never actually mentioned anywhere (atleast as far as I remember) making attempts to become friends with his team, it's like he just accepted that they aren't friends and then shut down.
An extroverted person would have been a lot more likely to take action, hold out his hand to the others and befriend them and if Fluff would have done so and became their friend he probably would have felt more comfortable with being more vocal in the team and all of this could have been avoided.
From the way you talk the topic is either very important to you or you're an introvert yourself (or both), I'd give you my condolences here but I know enough introverts to know that they can be just as happy or sad as others depending on how they handle it just like everybody else needs to learn to live with (or even to enjoy) some part of their personalities, but even if you feel strongly for this those strong feelings shouldn't blind your judgement here.

On March 13 2014 22:15 BrokenBang wrote:


Being an introvert does not hinder anyone's ability to be a leader. An introvert is just simply someone who needs some time to themselves away from other people. You say an extrovert in a leadership position would be more likely to take action, but that is not true. Action can be taken in a variety of ways and extroverts just like to be in the spotlight more than introverts. Just because you can't see action being taken does not mean nothing is happening. This particular situation that Fluff is in is a result of holding back whatever he wanted to say in the first place because he was afraid of something adverse. Holding back something you want to say or do is not a quality only introverts have.

Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life".[4] Some popular writers have characterized introverts as people whose energy tends to expand through reflection and dwindle during interaction.[5] This is similar to Jung's view, although he focused on mental energy rather than physical energy. Few modern conceptions make this distinction.

The common modern perception is that introverts tend to be more reserved and less outspoken in groups. They often take pleasure in solitary activities such as reading, writing, using computers, hiking and fishing. The archetypal artist, writer, sculptor, engineer, composer and inventor are all highly introverted. An introvert is likely to enjoy time spent alone and find less reward in time spent with large groups of people, though he or she may enjoy interactions with close friends. Trust is usually an issue of significance: a virtue of utmost importance to introverts is choosing a worthy companion. They prefer to concentrate on a single activity at a time and like to observe situations before they participate, especially observed in developing children and adolescents.[6] They are more analytical before speaking.[7] Introverts are easily overwhelmed by too much stimulation from social gatherings and engagement, introversion having even been defined by some in terms of a preference for a quiet, more minimally stimulating external environment.[8]

Introversion is not the same thing as shyness but it is often mistaken as such by extraverts. Introverts prefer solitary to social activities, but do not fear social encounters like shy people do. [9]

On March 13 2014 22:31 SilentchiLL wrote:
Being an introvert does hinder ones ability to be a leader, if you have problems to make yourself heard in a group then it's often harder to lead, especially in a stressful situation like in dota where strong calls have to be made or where it can go horribly to mix up different opinions on drafting.

On March 13 2014 22:31 SilentchiLL wrote:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Introvert#Introversion



EDIT since a blank article and quote seem kinda ill-mannered:
Being an introvert does hinder ones ability to be a leader, if you have problems to make yourself heard in a group then it's often harder to lead, especially in a stressful situation like in dota where strong calls have to be made or where it can go horribly to mix up different opinions on drafting.

I wanted to, in each event, take control over the team and seize leadership. I wanted my team to explode, I wanted everybody to feel so much frustration that there would be nothing to lose. I excel in these situations because, when there's pressure on my back I work harder and think quicker.

At the Monster Invitational I rolled in bed all night, the day before the finals, thinking of 3 or 4 different strategies I was prepared to break out as an emergency captain.

On March 13 2014 22:38 Unleashing wrote:

Explain the multitude of successful introverted leaders then.
Just because introverts regain energy on reflection does not at all mean they somehow can't lead.

I am personally introverted but that does not at all prevent me from being the leader in my research projects, and it doesn't prevent other introverts from being successful leaders. Introversion and extroversion also isn't black and white, barely anything in this world is black and white.

On March 13 2014 22:39 Testuser wrote:

Tend to be. It's not in black and white.

Being introverted means, that once your energy battery is gone dry, you replenish it by spending some time alone. Some people do it by spending time with other people - that is how they, extroverts, replenish their energy.

It even says the exact same thing in what you linked. You don't necessarily have problems taking charge of a group or speaking out - that's just the case for some introverts, not all.

On March 13 2014 21:35 SilentchiLL wrote:


TL is a very accepting place, but saying that "the way someone is" or simpler his character cannot be a problem goes a bit far, don't you think?
Him being an introvert does hinder his leadership-skills so it's not too far fetched to call it a problem, he also talked about how different he is when he plays with friends compared to how he plays with his team and that they even asked him about that, but he never actually mentioned anywhere (atleast as far as I remember) making attempts to become friends with his team, it's like he just accepted that they aren't friends and then shut down.
An extroverted person would have been a lot more likely to take action, hold out his hand to the others and befriend them and if Fluff would have done so and became their friend he probably would have felt more comfortable with being more vocal in the team and all of this could have been avoided.
From the way you talk the topic is either very important to you or you're an introvert yourself (or both), I'd give you my condolences here but I know enough introverts to know that they can be just as happy or sad as others depending on how they handle it just like everybody else needs to learn to live with (or even to enjoy) some part of their personalities, but even if you feel strongly for this those strong feelings shouldn't blind your judgement here.

On March 13 2014 22:53 -Celestial- wrote:


I was going to reply but I see I've been beaten to it by other people who have explained in more detail. In short: You don't know what being introverted is either. SilentchiLL posted a wikipedia link which has a good explanation although admittedly he apparently didn't really understand it because he thinks it argues that introversion is bad for leadership potential too.

And you have some serious attitude problems and/or personal issues if you think introversion is something to offer condolences for.

It IS "the way someone is" because its based on how people regain their energy or, if you prefer, destress; it has very little to do with anything else. And it has zero implication on leadership capabilities.

I'd give you my condolences here but

I WOULD give you my condolences here BUT

On March 13 2014 22:52 SilentchiLL wrote:
A lot of things hinder ones ability to do certain things, but that doesn't meant hat they make them impossible, also never claimed that they would.
Seriously, can you guys stop seeing these things in such an extreme way just because it touches you personally? You talk about seeing things black and white but yet you act like I made some kind of absolute statement along the lines of "introverts can't be leaders".
This started out as a discussion on it being a problem or not, it is in this case, it was never about the question if introverts can be leaders or not.

On March 13 2014 23:01 Unleashing wrote:

Are you even reading what you write yourself? you ARE the one that is making absolute statements, you said that him being introverted will hinder his ability to lead. This is just plain wrong.

Being an introvert is not a problem in regards to being a good leader. There are both good and bad leaders and they can be both introverted and extroverted regardless of what kind of leader they are.

Fluff might be a bad leader, i wouldn't know, but it definitely does not need to have anything to do with him being introverted. It might, there are also people who are bad leaders because they are extroverts, shock, who could have thought it could go both ways?

On March 13 2014 22:58 SilentchiLL wrote:


The guy who posted the article is me as well (maybe you just decided to talk to me in third person about your answer, but that doesn't seem likely).

This made me kinda angry to be honest, I said that it's NOT something to offer condolences for, because you were defending the point that being introverted itself is NOT an inherently bad thing and I was AGREEING with you, goddamnit man.

And yes, I agreed with you on it being the way someone is as well, I did say though that the personality of somebody can be a problem, just because it's your personality doesn't mean it can't be a problem.
For the rest, read the post above yours.

On March 13 2014 23:11 -Celestial- wrote:


For some reason I read the first post as someone else, how odd. Guess I'm more tired than I thought. *shrug*

Er...no, you posted a condescending comment with a whole "they can be happy or sad depending on how they handle it" aspect to it. Its not a mental health issue like clinical depression ffs, its introversion. Don't conflate the two.

My point is the very fact you needed to spell that out implies you think its some sort of problem that has to be "dealt with". Which is utterly absurd. Think about it this way: is it a problem to enjoy quietly reading or...I don't know...fishing (introversion) as opposed to going out to clubs and dancing (extraversion) on a weekend?

Personality being a problem is a different issue from introversion vs extraversion.

On March 13 2014 23:25 SilentchiLL wrote:

I never wrote it's a mental health issue.
I never intended it to be condescending either.
I was however talking about character traits that aren't always easy to live with, just like somebody with a big ego can have problems in his life or on a personal level with others if he doesn't realize it or just doesn't care, so can introverted persons.
Different characters make it easier or harder to get along with others, or to keep a good mood or to keep yourself motivated, I wasn't even judging being introverted as something negative, being extroverted brings its own problems on the table.



I did so because you immediately became defensive about it and I wanted to tell you that it is in fact not something superspecial or horrible, apparently I failed though. It can be a problem, just like a lot of other character traits, however I never said it has to be dealt with, I said how somebody with an introverted personality is doing depends on how he or she handles it, e.g. if a shy person lets his shyness stop him from doing what he wants, or if a loud person who has his heart on his tongue says something stupid or offending to people without realising it. Or to edit a positive scenario into this, if an introvert finds a quiet and relaxed job that challenges him and gives him time to think.