• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:08
CEST 21:08
KST 04:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed12Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed Who will win EWC 2025? Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL ASL20 Preliminary Maps Starcraft in widescreen
Tourneys
Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Segway man no more. Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 798 users

Crash and Burn: I'm done waiting - Page 16

Blogs > Liquid`FLUFF
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
corona_0489k
Profile Joined April 2011
United States27 Posts
March 15 2014 22:57 GMT
#301
While this is very heartfelt and well-written, the glaring issue is whether leadership is something that just falls into your lap, or something that you normally have to earn. Sometimes, it will mean performing better than everyone else on your team (if they're the type to follow the "alphas"). Sometimes, it will mean making people feel good about themselves. Sometimes, it will have to be you giving up a position or status, and just doing your best in the shadows.

Leadership is service, it's servant-hood to the those being led. It's not about power over others, or control, but about sharing and learning and growing together, and being the catalyst for that even at the cost of your own "self-respect."

Maybe the team is just full of too many "egos." But hey that's what people say about DK, Na'Vi, etc. and they're still able to function really well. At the end of the day, you have to be able to share yourself, share your vision, and do your best to make the others do the same. There is no manual for leadership. It's built gradually on a case-to-case basis.

EDIT: Forgot the most important part I'd like to share.

Fluff, just take responsibility. And show that you deserve that responsibility. You don't have to go off on teammates, or be a dictator, to get things done. Prove yourself, and earn that captaincy. But in all of it, you have to show that you have all their best interests at heart. You don't have to be best friends with them, as this is a professional team, but you have to be able to communicate that adage: "I've got your back, and I'll leave you to take care of mine."


I have to agree. I cant say that I dont think your leadership is the better one because I think it is. However, your blog seems very whiney and kid-like "I'm a leader that demands respect". I dont really know the specifics of the teams relationships but from watching past videos I say that your teamates respect you and know your capabilities as a leader. So my perception is that most of all of this falls on you. Sorry, I'm just giving you my honest opinion.

That being said, I hope that you can overcome and triumph over this issue. I believe in you, your leadership, and in the team that you lead. I really am a big fan of your leadership.
This is Sparta!!!
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
March 15 2014 22:58 GMT
#302
On March 12 2014 15:03 Caladbolg wrote:
While this is very heartfelt and well-written, the glaring issue is whether leadership is something that just falls into your lap, or something that you normally have to earn. Sometimes, it will mean performing better than everyone else on your team (if they're the type to follow the "alphas"). Sometimes, it will mean making people feel good about themselves. Sometimes, it will have to be you giving up a position or status, and just doing your best in the shadows.

Leadership is service, it's servant-hood to the those being led. It's not about power over others, or control, but about sharing and learning and growing together, and being the catalyst for that even at the cost of your own "self-respect."

Maybe the team is just full of too many "egos." But hey that's what people say about DK, Na'Vi, etc. and they're still able to function really well. At the end of the day, you have to be able to share yourself, share your vision, and do your best to make the others do the same. There is no manual for leadership. It's built gradually on a case-to-case basis.

EDIT: Forgot the most important part I'd like to share.

Fluff, just take responsibility. And show that you deserve that responsibility. You don't have to go off on teammates, or be a dictator, to get things done. Prove yourself, and earn that captaincy. But in all of it, you have to show that you have all their best interests at heart. You don't have to be best friends with them, as this is a professional team, but you have to be able to communicate that adage: "I've got your back, and I'll leave you to take care of mine."


I'd like to note that there are a great many manuals on leadership. Given its importance in military matters it has been studied and discussed quite thoroughly, and several methods have been developed. I'm not that familiar with them myself, but the literature for them is out there.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Heartscry
Profile Joined May 2012
United Kingdom291 Posts
March 15 2014 23:00 GMT
#303
One of the most embarrassingly unprofessional things I've seen, the real leadership here will probably come from TL management when they sack him.

Publicly criticising your teammates but still claiming to be leadership material?
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-15 23:03:07
March 15 2014 23:01 GMT
#304
it's too bad they can't have a separate coach slot for someone to just do the drafting and picks and planning and such.
I know i'd love to focus on that part, as strategy is my forte; game sense decent, and my mechanics are poor.
I volunteer to help if they want me

Also they really need to look up some of the manuals on how to handle stuff like this, effective after action reviews, and such. It sounds like a serious lack of team communication.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
govie
Profile Blog Joined November 2012
9334 Posts
March 15 2014 23:41 GMT
#305
2 wins, 2 good drafts

So sweet
The two NBA teams in states with legal weed are called the Nuggets and the Blazers...
makmeatt
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
2024 Posts
March 16 2014 00:18 GMT
#306
On March 16 2014 08:41 govie wrote:
2 wins, 2 good drafts

So sweet

It's a good start, looking forward to seeing more!
"Silver Edge can't break my hope" - Kryptt 2016 || "Chrono is not a debuff, you just get rekt" - Guru 2016
CDRdude
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States5625 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-16 00:53:34
March 16 2014 00:53 GMT
#307
Great game against C9 today. I hope everything works out.

+ Show Spoiler [What really happened] +
You guys won because I wore my Team Liquid shirt for good luck. You're welcome
Force staff is the best item in the game.
pcLume
Profile Joined October 2010
United States79 Posts
March 16 2014 01:56 GMT
#308
On March 12 2014 23:20 pcLume wrote:
I can't imagine any organization would keep a person with your mindset on the roster, and it's even more unimaginable that you expect teammates to follow you after posting some of the shit you've posted here.

Negativity and apprehension will kill every hope and dream you have ever had and unfortunately every word you wrote here sounds like you have been negative and hesitant from day 1.

Winners don't go into tournaments hoping to learn and grow. They don't "expect to fail" or "want to fail" when shit goes south.

If you don't want to be labeled as emo I suggest you go back and read what you've posted here and give us a reason to think otherwise. This post is absolutely ridiculous and it honestly sounds like the problem right from the beginning has been you.


Man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Good games, and good drafts against Cloud 9. Keep it up guys, lets see how far you can take this.
NInoff
Profile Joined August 2011
Bulgaria1105 Posts
March 16 2014 23:38 GMT
#309
To be honest after TI3 i was pretty sure that there is a problem, and the biggest part of it was Fluff.
I was called hater back then, and all most of the comments before games were "Go TL" and "Liquid Fighting", and "Bad Luck" after the games.
I am really happy that finally something is happening, and now when he is putting his head on the line, i think that FLUFF deserves the chance to try and make this team work.
After all he was drafting last February when Liquid Dota was stomping the western scene. He brought some really cool strats in to the meta, and showed the world that Visage is legit hero, because noone was picking him back then.

I am kind of scared that this might be too late, because if it fails it is going to be a lost year for the team, but i really, really hope that it can work. Remember - the fans don't want 100% wins, to believe in the team once again. All we want is solid stable draft with good execution and please TALK to eachother a lot in game, the games last month made me really doubt that.
SnowfaLL
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada730 Posts
March 17 2014 01:23 GMT
#310
On March 16 2014 10:56 pcLume wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 12 2014 23:20 pcLume wrote:
I can't imagine any organization would keep a person with your mindset on the roster, and it's even more unimaginable that you expect teammates to follow you after posting some of the shit you've posted here.

Negativity and apprehension will kill every hope and dream you have ever had and unfortunately every word you wrote here sounds like you have been negative and hesitant from day 1.

Winners don't go into tournaments hoping to learn and grow. They don't "expect to fail" or "want to fail" when shit goes south.

If you don't want to be labeled as emo I suggest you go back and read what you've posted here and give us a reason to think otherwise. This post is absolutely ridiculous and it honestly sounds like the problem right from the beginning has been you.


Man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Good games, and good drafts against Cloud 9. Keep it up guys, lets see how far you can take this.


I don't think you were wrong at all.. Three facts we've learned about FLUFF:

1) He is a really, really good drafter and captain. Liquid has looked capable of beating Navi and Alliance with him at the helm in early 2013 (even did beat them at times). Even with Korok and ixmike, they were a top 5 in the world team in early 2013. And we know skill-wise, Qovjqa and wayto are superior than them.

2) FLUFF has major psychological/emotional issues that hinder him from being a good leader, most of it is all in his head.

3) Because said issues from FLUFF, and poor communication overall by the team, there is no surprise why they are doing so poorly lately when someone other than FLUFF has the responsibility. It's basically FLUFF's way or they fail because FLUFF won't buy in to anyone else drafting/captaining, yet he didn;t have the balls to take the helm himself and be a true leader

- Maybe this will be the awakening we have been waiting for, and maybe Liquid will start performing up to the "Liquid" standard (BW/SC2) but at the same token, the whole way this came about, public meltdown and all, is not the Nazgul way. I'm surprised they didn't fire FLUFF on the spot, but I'm not surprised we haven't heard any comments by anyone from the organization since.
Favorites: Moon, Grubby, Naniwa, TAiLS, viOLeT, DongRaeGu
MirageTaN
Profile Joined June 2012
Singapore871 Posts
March 17 2014 12:02 GMT
#311
On March 17 2014 10:23 SnowfaLL wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 16 2014 10:56 pcLume wrote:
On March 12 2014 23:20 pcLume wrote:
I can't imagine any organization would keep a person with your mindset on the roster, and it's even more unimaginable that you expect teammates to follow you after posting some of the shit you've posted here.

Negativity and apprehension will kill every hope and dream you have ever had and unfortunately every word you wrote here sounds like you have been negative and hesitant from day 1.

Winners don't go into tournaments hoping to learn and grow. They don't "expect to fail" or "want to fail" when shit goes south.

If you don't want to be labeled as emo I suggest you go back and read what you've posted here and give us a reason to think otherwise. This post is absolutely ridiculous and it honestly sounds like the problem right from the beginning has been you.


Man enough to admit when I'm wrong. Good games, and good drafts against Cloud 9. Keep it up guys, lets see how far you can take this.


I don't think you were wrong at all.. Three facts we've learned about FLUFF:

1) He is a really, really good drafter and captain. Liquid has looked capable of beating Navi and Alliance with him at the helm in early 2013 (even did beat them at times). Even with Korok and ixmike, they were a top 5 in the world team in early 2013. And we know skill-wise, Qovjqa and wayto are superior than them.

2) FLUFF has major psychological/emotional issues that hinder him from being a good leader, most of it is all in his head.

3) Because said issues from FLUFF, and poor communication overall by the team, there is no surprise why they are doing so poorly lately when someone other than FLUFF has the responsibility. It's basically FLUFF's way or they fail because FLUFF won't buy in to anyone else drafting/captaining, yet he didn;t have the balls to take the helm himself and be a true leader

- Maybe this will be the awakening we have been waiting for, and maybe Liquid will start performing up to the "Liquid" standard (BW/SC2) but at the same token, the whole way this came about, public meltdown and all, is not the Nazgul way. I'm surprised they didn't fire FLUFF on the spot, but I'm not surprised we haven't heard any comments by anyone from the organization since.

dude this is making liquid better. Teams become one when they understand each other and what fluff is doing now is rallying them and making them united under his leadership.One voice one action one body. I mean its working and I love it.This might look very grim and bad for the future of Liquid but it isn't . The only reason why Nazgul has risen his voice is because he understands what this team needs, a clear leader.
To quote robert baratheon: which is bigger? one or five? ONE or five. One army unified by one purpose by one leader or 5.
I completely agree on what FLUFF is trying to achieve here and the flaws of Liquid are very evident even in their games: they lack coordination, but in their most recent games vsCloud9, they showed improvements.
I want to wish Liquid all the best, they can take down EG as top dogs in America and they will
#TLWIN TI7, TLDota BEST TL
Darkren
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada1841 Posts
March 18 2014 05:05 GMT
#312
this thread man

psychology 101 everybody
"Yeah, I send (hopefully) helpful PM's quite frequently. You don't have to warn/ban everything" - KadaverBB
lessQQmorePEWPEW
Profile Joined November 2011
Jamaica921 Posts
March 18 2014 07:28 GMT
#313
rants like this have no place in dota 2 man. sc2 has its fair share lets not port that over.

tough times call for more open communications and im glad you got another change with TL. use it and prove urself or you will be the laughing stock for years to come.

good luck
Why drink and drive when you can smoke and fly - Bob Marley
Hds
Profile Joined July 2011
France200 Posts
March 18 2014 13:09 GMT
#314
I can't freaking wait for the next match of Liquid against a Tier 1 team or, seeing them stomping others.

So far so good Liquid, I love this
Watily! ♥
MrProb
Profile Joined January 2011
Thailand794 Posts
March 19 2014 08:05 GMT
#315
I don't know why people criticize FLUFF's expression, you know, he has anxiety issue which explain WHY he has to put it out here on the blog.

Sometimes, before you rise to the top you have to fall into the deepest of hell hole.
rave[wcr] wrote: wtf how can erik understand kelly, its like han solo and chewabacca overthere.
dcttr66
Profile Joined October 2003
United States555 Posts
March 20 2014 22:47 GMT
#316
You need to get team members that give you respect I suppose. I think I am searching for that at the moment. It's hard to find and I don't think I've managed to get as high as you in prominence because I couldn't tolerate disrespect like you forced yourself to.
SilentchiLL
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany1405 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-03-20 23:07:28
March 20 2014 23:05 GMT
#317
On March 21 2014 07:47 dcttr66 wrote:
You need to get team members that give you respect I suppose. I think I am searching for that at the moment. It's hard to find and I don't think I've managed to get as high as you in prominence because I couldn't tolerate disrespect like you forced yourself to.


The obvious solution to the problems of both of you would be to be humble but firm as a leader until you've earned yourself respect with your actions.
Demanding respect without earning it first is always risky, if you fail to pay back the respect your teammates have given you blindly with success, you'll lose their respect and maybe even your team.
(Note that respect doesn't equal listening to calls and sticking to your gameplan here, but if they don't do that then you're just not their leader.)
possum, sed nolo - Real men play random. ___ "Who the fuck is Kyle?!" C*****EX
taifhamid1
Profile Joined March 2014
United States1 Post
March 21 2014 20:39 GMT
#318
You guys are doing bad right now, not that you are immortals or something special because eventually all of us will have to go through that period at some point of our life, that doesn't matter what matters is how you deal with it, how to fix it, maybe come up with different strategies get a different approach to it. the only thinks that you need to keep in your mind is to not give up because these are the best team in the world you are going against and they just out smarted you and that's nothing to be ashamed off.
maybe get a new player if that's possible, change leadership, sit with the team see what they want, watch your games see what you did wrong maybe you didn't ban the right hero? or you didn't go with the right lane? or your support didn't place a ward at needed moment? or thinks as simple as calling missing? as a new leader you SHOULD go through all of these thinks and try to fix what's broken which is your motivation which i can clearly see that you lost maybe take a little break from pro matches start from the bottom again, it doesn't matter if we think you can do it but do you believe that you can do it?
You haven't succeed yet if you haven't failed miserably
Hellbat
Profile Joined June 2013
223 Posts
March 26 2014 23:11 GMT
#319
team fire rebuild inc?

anyways good luck in life fluff, please try hard on ladder tho. I want to see you get 7k before demon
Prev 1 14 15 16 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 52m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
uThermal 513
TKL 254
IndyStarCraft 248
mcanning 220
SteadfastSC 166
UpATreeSC 137
BRAT_OK 117
MindelVK 31
ZombieGrub30
StarCraft: Brood War
EffOrt 1435
Larva 969
Stork 655
Barracks 169
Aegong 60
Jaeyun 60
sSak 48
Shinee 39
Rock 28
Terrorterran 27
[ Show more ]
scan(afreeca) 18
sas.Sziky 6
Hm[arnc] 5
Bale 3
Dota 2
qojqva5106
Pyrionflax82
LuMiX0
League of Legends
Grubby3098
Dendi1114
Counter-Strike
apEX1157
sgares670
pashabiceps521
Stewie2K316
byalli204
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King102
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu291
Other Games
FrodaN2943
summit1g2238
ArmadaUGS118
Skadoodle116
mouzStarbuck93
Trikslyr84
Sick3
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3223
BasetradeTV29
StarCraft 2
angryscii 26
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• HeavenSC 28
• davetesta25
• Adnapsc2 11
• LUISG 1
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 19
• Michael_bg 3
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21150
League of Legends
• Jankos1557
• TFBlade847
Other Games
• imaqtpie1711
• Shiphtur357
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
14h 52m
OSC
17h 52m
WardiTV European League
20h 52m
Fjant vs Babymarine
Mixu vs HiGhDrA
Gerald vs ArT
goblin vs MaNa
Jumy vs YoungYakov
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Epic.LAN
1d 16h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Epic.LAN
2 days
CSO Contender
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
5 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.