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StarCraft - Page 6
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JaKaTaKSc2
United States2787 Posts
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United States7542 Posts
On January 09 2014 01:19 Salv wrote: The idea in that link is a very good - basically it's showing how mapmakers can create maps in such a way that six bases with 12-14 workers would be exponentially better than three bases with 24-28 workers. This is an idea that needs no additional support from Blizzard that they would be forced to incorporate into their own maps if tournaments and players began to adopt - just like Blizzard cut out (mostly) their gold mineral bases when the community began playing on modified versions without them. Right now, there's not much incentive (for a Protoss let's say) to mass expand when they have a lead - or to continue to try and compound their map control with more bases. In fact, it can detrimental to do such because now you just have more bases to defend and more surface area to be harassed/attacked. If there was a real economic benefit to doing so I think this would open up the game to more guerrilla tactics in order to win/get advantages and there would be less deathballs. The other side of the advantage is that bases payout faster encouraging people to expand sooner and more often without needing strong defensive options to hold the expansions. With a more efficient economy from having more bases a player can recoup the hatch/nexus/cc cost quicker and be on an even footing (or better) if the other player decides to go aggressive. It not only opens up large map expansion in the mid/late game, but also encourages it as a starting strategy as well. It also helps to soften the blow of losing things like a 3rd base to early aggression because of the ability for the cc to pay for itself (via increased worker efficiency) rather than having it pay out purely by supporting additional workers in the player's economy (where it takes time to build the workers and pay off their construction cost first). | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
On January 09 2014 01:19 Salv wrote: The idea in that link is a very good - basically it's showing how mapmakers can create maps in such a way that six bases with 12-14 workers would be exponentially better than three bases with 24-28 workers. This is an idea that needs no additional support from Blizzard that they would be forced to incorporate into their own maps if tournaments and players began to adopt - just like Blizzard cut out (mostly) their gold mineral bases when the community began playing on modified versions without them. Right now, there's not much incentive (for a Protoss let's say) to mass expand when they have a lead - or to continue to try and compound their map control with more bases. In fact, it can detrimental to do such because now you just have more bases to defend and more surface area to be harassed/attacked. If there was a real economic benefit to doing so I think this would open up the game to more guerrilla tactics in order to win/get advantages and there would be less deathballs. It's an interesting idea primarily because maps are the one thing that the community more or less controls. If Blizzard is not going to adjust worker AI under the false pretense that they don't want want to have archaic controls in the game (in reality they just can't be bothered finding company resources to investigate it because they don't see the immediacy for changing worker AI to begin with), then you might consider adjusting the maps to enable the desired type of income scaling. But I'm fairly certain that Blizzard would still shut it down if it proved too popular. Starcraft 2 is a good game, but it's because Blizzard has very high production values (maybe the highest) and because it's patterned on Brood War and therefore can't help but share in some of its qualities. I don't think the contributions to the genre in Starcraft 2 are uniformly competently implemented and/or inspired. Perhaps only half of the time. So that's why TvT&TvZ can be very good match-ups, with other match-ups trailing. It's because the basic framework for the game is very promising, but the execution is inconsistent. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On January 09 2014 04:14 hifriend wrote: I think if someone were to make a new competitive RTS meant for esports, now would be a good time. I'd play it Imagine if there was a game as good as Brood War (Or potentially even better than it, if the developers understood Brood War, and decided to improve upon it), with more popularity, automatch, and so on. That would be fucking amazing. I am satisfied with Brood War as a game, even though it is not perfect (nothing is perfect, everything can always be improved). However, I am not totally satisfied with its features outside of the core game itself. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
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Grumbels
Netherlands7032 Posts
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Izerman
Sweden99 Posts
What would lower the range of queens and up the hellion dmg again do to the game then? and maybe add a little more speed to zealots + make the attack count as soon as the zealot hit so he can do dmg to kting marines? Thus not needing the bandaid called "charge" ? | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On January 09 2014 04:55 Grumbels wrote: Company of Heroes 2 was recently released. The new Command & Conquer game was canceled though. There is also a new Homeworld sequel in production as well as a Supreme Commander sequel. I don't know if either of them can topple Starcraft though. It's a pity, the game really lacks in competition. At least League of Legends has DOTA2. CoH is a fun series, but for whatever reason they cripple themselves for realism and force a axis vs allies match-up. Honestly the problem is that very very few people really understand what makes RTS games tick. So few know how to play them as is, but then only a small % of those who know how to play them really understand the underlying mechanisms and how they all intertwine. Well the other problem is financial incentive. RTS games are at a big disadvantage because they have no real social leverage because it's based on a 1v1 system that's really unforgiving to anyone who isn't trying to play seriously. DotA, LoL, CS, TF2, etc. all get big population bumps by being team games that encourage you to hop online and play with your friends. As much as I love 1v1 RTS I think having a strong casual team play may be a big key to keeping the genre around. Which for all of its accessibility concessions SC2 does a really poor job of as well. | ||
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zlefin
United States7689 Posts
Hmm, that'd be an interesting thing to include in an SC2 redesign. | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1982 Posts
On January 09 2014 04:14 hifriend wrote: I think if someone were to make a new competitive RTS meant for esports, now would be a good time. The RTS day9 is developing looks interesting, if only because day9 is making it and he seems to understand what makes bw great. | ||
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
On January 09 2014 07:34 Garrl wrote: The RTS day9 is developing looks interesting, if only because day9 is making it and he seems to understand what makes bw great. Wat? I've never heard of this... o.o | ||
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Garrl
Scotland1982 Posts
http://day9.tv/d/Day9/blog-9-artillerys-gaming-platform-a-video-demo/ | ||
Teoita
Italy12248 Posts
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RageCommodore
Germany912 Posts
I wish you all the best in 2014. | ||
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MagnuMizer
Denmark384 Posts
And I have to say its perfectly understandable the feelings you have... I mean, who would'nt be frustrated with a game they've been fighting a losing battle with since its release? I don't want this taken the wrong way, cause Ret, I think you're cool..! But, maybe it's time to throw in the towel... Lets face it, you've lost your passion and your motivation to truly be top tier. If you love watching proleague and such, why don't you just give yourself some time to do that? Do what you love instead of trying to force yourself into some dreamworld of yours... You can still stream and make content and do whatever you want within e-sports.. I've always been a fan of you even though you've never really delivered.. But i'm more a fan of Liquid and i think its a shame to see so many other (korean) pros retire before you and yet you remain. I'm not sure its fair to the team, cause you're basically an investment that never paid off. I mean, I get it.. getting paid to play video games is awesome!! Who would ever want to go back to the "real world"? But sooner or later you're gonna have to wake up... Less people are interested in Starcraft, the money is going away, teams are disbanding, players retiring.. Sooner or later the prize pools will be a joke, the viewer counts on the streams will be slim to none and your team will no longer be able to afford paying you a salary.. And until thay day comes, Liquid is gonna need all the money they can get to stay in the scene, and honestly it would be a real shame if you kept them from doing that..! Consider your options, go all in or don't do it at all... You can't half-ass this shit any longer... I wish you the best for 2014 onwards...... | ||
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aike
United States1629 Posts
On January 09 2014 12:04 MagnuMizer wrote: So I read your blog... And I have to say its perfectly understandable the feelings you have... I mean, who would'nt be frustrated with a game they've been fighting a losing battle with since its release? I don't want this taken the wrong way, cause Ret, I think you're cool..! But, maybe it's time to throw in the towel... Lets face it, you've lost your passion and your motivation to truly be top tier. If you love watching proleague and such, why don't you just give yourself some time to do that? Do what you love instead of trying to force yourself into some dreamworld of yours... You can still stream and make content and do whatever you want within e-sports.. I've always been a fan of you even though you've never really delivered.. But i'm more a fan of Liquid and i think its a shame to see so many other (korean) pros retire before you and yet you remain. I'm not sure its fair to the team, cause you're basically an investment that never paid off. I mean, I get it.. getting paid to play video games is awesome!! Who would ever want to go back to the "real world"? But sooner or later you're gonna have to wake up... Less people are interested in Starcraft, the money is going away, teams are disbanding, players retiring.. Sooner or later the prize pools will be a joke, the viewer counts on the streams will be slim to none and your team will no longer be able to afford paying you a salary.. And until thay day comes, Liquid is gonna need all the money they can get to stay in the scene, and honestly it would be a real shame if you kept them from doing that..! Consider your options, go all in or don't do it at all... You can't half-ass this shit any longer... I wish you the best for 2014 onwards...... Wow, you have no idea how TeamLiquid works do you... I've always been a fan of TL posters even though some of them, like you, have never really delivered... but I'm more a fan of the forums and I think its a shame to see so many other (good) posters stop posting before you, and yet you remain. I'm not sure its fair to the community, cause you're basically a poster that never really developed. I mean, I get it.. feeling like you're cool to talk shit about progames is awesome!! Who would ever want to go back to "good posts"? But sooner or later you're gonna have to wake up... Less people are interested in what you have to say, this isn't reddit, a higher quality and less rude of post are required.. Sooner or later the admins will get sick of you.. And until that day comes, TL is gonna need their server load they can to stay with good posts, and honestly it would be a real shame if you kept them from doing that..! Consider your options, go all in or don't do it at all... You can't half-ass these shit posts any longer... I wish you the best for 2014 onwards...... | ||
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MagnuMizer
Denmark384 Posts
On January 09 2014 13:27 aike wrote: Wow, you have no idea how TeamLiquid works do you... I've always been a fan of TL posters even though some of them, like you, have never really delivered... but I'm more a fan of the forums and I think its a shame to see so many other (good) posters stop posting before you, and yet you remain. I'm not sure its fair to the community, cause you're basically a poster that never really developed. I mean, I get it.. feeling like you're cool to talk shit about progames is awesome!! Who would ever want to go back to "good posts"? But sooner or later you're gonna have to wake up... Less people are interested in what you have to say, this isn't reddit, a higher quality and less rude of post are required.. Sooner or later the admins will get sick of you.. And until that day comes, TL is gonna need their server load they can to stay with good posts, and honestly it would be a real shame if you kept them from doing that..! Consider your options, go all in or don't do it at all... You can't half-ass these shit posts any longer... I wish you the best for 2014 onwards...... Hahaha! Epic... | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
Kinda sad that there isn't an ascendant RTS game to give Blizzard some competition. Just one smaller studio release that's feature-rich (I should say features done right) with less glitter to stimulate more ideas in Irvine. I can dream at least. LaLush re-doing micro mechanics for lotv mmmm. Sweet Dreams. | ||
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