• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:21
CET 11:21
KST 19:21
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners5Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11
Community News
Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon!28$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship5[BSL21] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (Oct 26-Nov 2): Liquid, Clem, Solar win; LAN in Philly2Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win9
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) Starcraft, SC2, HoTS, WC3, returning to Blizzcon! TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win
Tourneys
- nuked - Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions [BSL21] RO32 Group Stage BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group A - Saturday 21:00 CET BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
PvZ map balance Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Why we need SC3
Hildegard
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1555 users

Thoughts on WCS 2014 [audio blog] - Page 2

Blogs > TotalBiscuit
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
November 26 2013 14:24 GMT
#21
Pretty cool podcast. Thx.
I had a good night of sleep.
enord
Profile Blog Joined September 2013
France258 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-05 22:43:44
December 05 2013 12:01 GMT
#22
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 22 2013 20:14 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Lots of similar thoughts on these issues. Overall clearly WCS made a lot of great changes so the mood should be positive. No system is ever perfect and thus it is good to talk about what could have been done differently. Clearly everyone feels the GSL prizepool is absurd and does not support the players at all. Blizzard chose to go the way of giving Korea freedom and maybe it was the right decision for the scene as a whole to cater to these relationships. The way GSL allocates the prize money is disappointing nonetheless.

There's a lot of good stuff in the plans and I'm really happy with the overall plans.
  • Linear timeline
  • No more seasonal finals (and hopefully like you said they do more for the ro8 with some live show with an audience)
  • Put a significant halt to new Koreans entering the NA/EU system
  • The few Koreans that do come through will have contributed hugely to the scene by laddering which is a win-win. Either they don't qualify or they do and did a lot to improve practice conditions for the local scene.
  • GSL brand is back
  • GSL has more prize money
  • More space for other tournaments
  • Losing in Challenger League still gets you $600
  • Better WCS point distribution for non-Blizzard tournaments


Maps
I can write about this forever but I'll keep it short. In an ideal scene I absolutely think that ladder and all major events should use the same maps for a duration of three or so months.

It will allow players to prepare for all the maps they need to play and come up with more creative strategies. Some people seem to think that if you have a lot of new maps you will see a lot of creative strategies, but that is not how it works. Too many new maps, and/or new maps played in too few tournaments, will only see standard play (and vetoing) because players do not find it worth the effort to prepare. When given the opportunity players were mass downvoting new maps, simply because the maps were never widespread enough.

As far as viewers are concerned the same mappool for three months in major tournaments will allow the viewer, who may also be a casual player, the time to learn the maps and start to understand their significance. Too many maps spread across different tournaments leads to viewers not wanting to learn or memorize every single one of them.

TL pushes for the mapmaking scene more than anything. We want to see new maps. We want to see creative maps. We want to support for the mapmaking scene. What I don't think works is major tournaments experimenting without any consistency or understanding of what they're doing.

The most important factor to make tournaments sharing the same mappool work is having a level below (or above depending on how you view it) all these major tournaments where a mapmaking scene is supported. In BW there was a lot of consistency in maps. OSL and MSL basically picked their maps and stuck with them for a season. However the maps that they had were still creative and fresh. This is because below the top level tournaments there was an extremely healthy mapmaking scene where professionals were paid to create new maps and teams were paid (forced) to test them.

Every four months you need to be able to introduce 3-4 new maps that will then go into the mappool for the next season. If Blizzard does not start supporting the mapmaking scene it could really stifle any kind of map development to force every tournament to use the same maps. If they do want to support the mapmaking scene (ala BW or TLMC) then this scene could come up with the new maps on a seasonal basis and everybody wins by all tournaments using the same maps.

That or you pray Red Bull keeps doing what they're doing.
<---full quote
On November 22 2013 20:14 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
Every four months you need to be able to introduce 3-4 new maps that will then go into the mappool for the next season. If Blizzard does not start supporting the mapmaking scene it could really stifle any kind of map development to force every tournament to use the same maps. If they do want to support the mapmaking scene (ala BW or TLMC) then this scene could come up with the new maps on a seasonal basis and everybody wins by all tournaments using the same maps.
That or you pray Red Bull keeps doing what they're doing.

thank you very much esteemed undead administrator, it is always good to read you, and awesome when it is in support of the map making community
on op: have to be off work to listen to TB
edit:added full quote
make / have a good tl .. ohhh and i want my icon back :°D
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 158
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8124
Jaedong 674
TY 388
BeSt 335
Soma 258
Stork 204
Light 171
PianO 160
Leta 155
JYJ150
[ Show more ]
Pusan 127
Aegong 101
soO 73
sSak 71
Mini 58
Rush 53
Sharp 52
EffOrt 47
Backho 36
sorry 31
yabsab 25
Larva 20
NotJumperer 13
Bale 13
Noble 10
Terrorterran 6
HiyA 5
Dota 2
Gorgc5261
XcaliburYe194
KheZu183
League of Legends
JimRising 424
Reynor173
Counter-Strike
fl0m1490
zeus110
taco 82
Other Games
summit1g15584
singsing1061
ceh9449
Happy167
crisheroes151
Sick97
XaKoH 76
NeuroSwarm49
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick517
Counter-Strike
PGL169
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 30
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3764
• Stunt621
Upcoming Events
OSC
1h 39m
LAN Event
4h 39m
Lambo vs Harstem
FuturE vs Maplez
Scarlett vs FoxeR
Gerald vs Mixu
Zoun vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
TriGGeR vs TBD
Korean StarCraft League
16h 39m
CranKy Ducklings
23h 39m
LAN Event
1d 4h
IPSL
1d 7h
dxtr13 vs OldBoy
Napoleon vs Doodle
BSL 21
1d 9h
Gosudark vs Kyrie
Gypsy vs Sterling
UltrA vs Radley
Dandy vs Ptak
Replay Cast
1d 12h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
[ Show More ]
LAN Event
2 days
IPSL
2 days
JDConan vs WIZARD
WolFix vs Cross
BSL 21
2 days
spx vs rasowy
HBO vs KameZerg
Cross vs Razz
dxtr13 vs ZZZero
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Classic vs Solar
herO vs Cure
Reynor vs GuMiho
ByuN vs ShoWTimE
Tenacious Turtle Tussle
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Solar vs Zoun
MaxPax vs Bunny
Kung Fu Cup
6 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Liquipedia Results

Completed

BSL 21 Points
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.