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Losing in Challenger as a full-time player

Blogs > Liquid`Snute
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Liquid`Snute
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Norway839 Posts
August 28 2013 08:57 GMT
#1
Hi everyone ~
Blog written after not reaching WCS S3 Premier league.

Losing in Challenger as a full-time player

I practice tons and tons and I like doing that. But not even my practice could carry me today. Too often I lose faith in my abilities and it happened today as well. I feel like I've hit a wall and that there's something missing.

A close friend of mine still makes fun of me for something I said in 2011. "I reached my limit, I can't get any better". Every time I won against someone I couldn't beat before, he'd make fun of me, reminding me of my skepticism that day. "I remember when you beat DeMusliM for the first time back in 2011, he said. You were so happy, haha." But I still, to this day, can't help but think that things are slowing down, once again. "Yeah," I said. "...and beastyqt, and EmpireKas... back when I couldn't beat them."

I'm no longer the 'underdog streamer' I was when you voted me into the ONOG Invitational 2 during March 2012. It's a whole different game now where I'm expected to perform. I do win against Koreans sometimes, but in most of my tournaments I end up losing to foreigners that people would expect me to beat.

I do win some tournaments and I don't want to be disrespectful to other players that try rly rly hard without enjoying the same opportunities, achievements and financial stability as a full-time gamer (or exposure if that's something desirable to ppl). But at the same time my mind is annoyed by the inconsistency in performance after HSC6. Certain things about my play have been frustrating and disappointing to work with over time. This performance was just another example to add to the list. Once you improve, self-expectations can go too high and you can become too emotionally invested. That's one of the things that I want to fix, but there's probably more to it.

[image loading]


As a pro-gamer when shit hits the fan and you can't take your game to the next level you will hear things like 'take a break' and 'try doing something else' and I've been doing that too without noticing any difference. Sometimes you need something unique that can give you that boost to break the ceiling. So far, for the past 6 months, I haven't found it. I have the awareness that something is wrong and it is now up to me to fix it. I'm looking forward to this challenge and at the same time I want to write down my struggles just to get it out of my mind and perhaps receive some tips for moving forward. I also want to shed some light on how it feels when your mind is in a dark place as a full-time player.

Full-time means you're investing a lot into the game and being one of the biggest try-hard foreigners can be tough when things go wrong. Your mind will tell you to look to others as more successful and to yourself as a failure. Part-time players leading happy lives and grabbing achievements here and there while you're sacrificing everything and gambling it all on this one thing: Reaching the very top of the top, becoming a champion. And then you lose, when you're not even competing at the highest level. Many thoughts appear that are only negative and unreasonable, but they are there and they become very real. While dealing with negativity might be effortless for some, it can be a very real struggle for others. I don't think one can reach the top, nor find peace with oneself, until certain things and thoughts are dealt with.

The piano story

I wanted to be a professional piano player, but there were problems with my improvement. I was good, definitely not by so-called 'talent' and being 'gifted' but rather a fair share of practice and skill obtained from enjoying playing the piano over many years. But when I tried to go pro, no matter how much I would practice, there would just seem to be things that couldn't be understood or mastered. Not even with the help of my amazing teachers and not even when I tried to practice for hours straight, I'd be able to do it the way it should be done and I eventually fell behind my younger peers, unable to enter the school I wanted.

Soon enough I grew impatient and began questioning myself. Was there a lack of talent? Was there a lack of gift? Was it meant to be that I would not be able to play these 4 voices at once, just because that's a limitation of my brain? Stupidity? Eventually I lost my passion and gave in to the doubt. I couldn't do it, I gave up. Eventually I started playing more and more StarCraft. I lost faith in myself on the music side of things. I wanted to do whatever I enjoyed the most in life, whatever made me happy. I had a great time playing lots and lots of SC2 as it was one of my favorite hobbies. Not too long after, I went full-time in the beginning of 2012.

Fast forward a year and a half and I'm questioning myself once more. This time with SC2. But I won't allow the same thing to happen. My struggles are not related to the game, it's about my the self-imposed limitations of my mind. I want to fix this once and for all, and that's one of the best bonuses about playing this game. It's so great at pointing out mistakes and bringing out sides of you that you can change for the better. To fix everything that holds me back.

As a piano player I didn't put in the hours that I do now. With StarCraft I didn't want to make the same mistake again and neglect practice. This is one of the reasons why I'm practicing my ass off today. But when your performance stays inconsistent and stagnant (when you start thinking of yourself as mediocre and you become a whiny bitch), there is a sense of urgency and desperation that attacks your mind. On a good day, you gain awareness and inspiration. On a bad day, you're struck with doubt and a sense of hopelessness. Doubt that will kill any hope of advancing through any tournament bracket or tournament group. Doubt that will make you lose a series to pretty much anyone.

[image loading]


I will now write some of the things that have struck my mind sometimes during games, sometimes after painful losses. Most of the times it's imaginary hate that just appears out of nothing, but it's there, and it is kind of interesting. And some times, you can take it very very seriously, no matter how ridicilous it sounds.

The negative mind and what it might tell you

Imagine being a foreigner. What would you do?

You're good, but not 'there'. I wouldn't watch your games and enjoy sophisticated beverages like I do when watching top Koreans. They know what's up. Most foreigners just can't be like them, that's all. I don't know why, but in the end I really don't care. I just watch games at the highest level and you're not interesting to me. Why should I watch you play when you're not even competing at the highest level?

What's wrong with you anyway? It shouldn't be that hard to understand how to get good at just one thing when you got like what 12 hours every day to think about it and just do it, right?

See, that's the difference between them and you. They just get it. You don't. And it's not just about SC2 either, it's probably just who you are. Some are smart, some are stupid. Some are good, others can't play. That's just how it is. Give up if you can't deal with it, or just be mediocre. I don't care anyway.

You've been doing this with all you got every day for how long now? You still can't hit your injects or spread creep properly. It's a fucking video game and it's your job. What is wrong with you?

Look at this strategy. It's not even legit, it's just some random all-in. And it's not a smart all-in like a Korean would do it, it's just stupid. Your playstyle won't hold up to someone truly good, you just happened to get lucky with your wins so far.

This one guy who just beat you probably plays 2 hours a day and still did better than you. He's probably getting wasted in the weekend with friends enjoying life with a brighter future than you while you're spending your best years in front of the pc doing the same thing over again. He's intelligent, more than you will ever be, so stop trying and spend your time on something you actually can do right already.

You're sad about losing games and feel like you can't do it anymore? You're a fucking professional, I thought you were paid to do this in a professional way. And you're now asking us for help? Get yourself together, this is a joke. I just lost all my respect for you. Stop whining, you have no right to complain or be sad. Oh, and you're also overpaid.

You totally threw that game. What's going on? Why did you do that?

You can't do this.



[image loading]
Can totally relate to this one.


Friends, fans and you

You can do it!! I never doubted you, I always believe in you. You just have to believe in yourself. I'll always believe in you no matter how it goes, even when you lose, even when you play your worst game, it's fine, I'll be there for you cheering you on. I always enjoy watching you play!

You might not win every time but always do your best. If you always do your best, then that's all you can do. It doesn't matter what happens after.

Just try! Just because they're good doesn't mean that you're different. You're good too, don't forget that!

Don't be so hard on yourself! It's good that you're passionate, but remember to be happy! Just look at what you've achieved already, don't forget it!

You will bounce back! Next time!!

Don't forget about your true fans!! We will cheer for you, no matter what.

I followed you since the very beginning and I'm still a huge fan, don't forget us!

It's so amazing that you have the balls to do something like what you're doing now, you're crazy! I'd never have the courage to do something like that. It's so different! You're brave, and it's so cool to follow and watch you!!

Let's do this.

Where to go from here

I'm not going to give up and switch profession just to find the same thing happening again. Not this time, because I love SC2. I want to find back to the peace of mind I had before. Playing to learn and to enjoy it as a passion, not to live up to expectations and deliver results. Not to avoid losing to people I'm not supposed to lose to. That's being afraid and disrespectful, and it feels wrong. But even if I know that, I don't know how to fix it yet in a way that works for me. But it is indeed possible. And with time, I will be able to do it.

I don't want to be the guy that wins a tournament without a smile. I can't identify with that, it doesn't feel human to me. But I don't want to be the one who's hating myself and feeling super emo about playing badly either. That, for sure, is not human. I always leave with a gg, I always respect my opponent winning and the game is the ultimate judge and one does not fuck around with that truth. But I hate myself way too often for my mistakes even if it doesn't help at all. So when I leave all of these things aside, the only thing that should be left for me is to have awareness and make the most out of every present moment in practice and in tournaments. So how does one reach that awareness and presence of mind in every in-game second, exactly?

The truth is, I don't know. But I will know soon. It might take time -- fortunately, I have lots of it. I'm a full time player because I made that choice back then. I made that space for myself, to fix this. And with time, anything is possible. Even to fix the most broken mind, even to overcome the greatest learning difficulties, to improve and have awareness. Maybe then I will be gosu. If I'm not, then well, at least I will be happy ^_^>

[image loading]

fighting


****
Team Liquid
Gowerly
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom916 Posts
August 28 2013 09:26 GMT
#2
Wear a onesie and/or a fluffy robe. It makes things ten times more enjoyable.

Hitting a plateau can be really frustrating. There's a video on Top Gear about the belief that if you're not a professional racing driver then you hit a point that you find it really hard to improve upon no matter what. Sir Jackie Stewart said it was bullshit and showed that you can still improve, it's just much harder.

I can't link Youtube at work, but I'll look for it. I think it mirrors what's going on here quite well.

Getting to a point is just straight improvement, but then it slows off and gets much harder to keep improving.

This may be entirely useless, to you, but hey!

I'd say "It gets easier", but I don't think that's true. It may just get more manageable!
I will reduce you to a series of numbers.
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-28 09:35:29
August 28 2013 09:29 GMT
#3
You're 23. You have at least 2-3 more years in this and quite possibly even more and this is just one tournament out of how many more you might play?

Fuck depression. Hit find match instead.

EDIT- Though I don't know how to overcome a skill plateau. I had a huge one and all I did was have widow mines become a unit.
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Holloworb
Profile Joined November 2011
Norway345 Posts
August 28 2013 09:31 GMT
#4
Thanks for posting this! I can identify so much to what your brain is doing to you and especially about the part where you're aware of the problem, but haven't got the solution to it. Some people seem to find happiness and inspiration in ambition and expectations, to some it's a burden weighing them down.
Sadly I'm a guy who haven't found my passion in this world, I'm just studying in uni hoping to discover passion somewhere. In the meantime im beating myself down everytime I dont get an A. So i dont have any great advice, but one of your fan quotes says alot, you're doing more then most of us ever dare. You're going in with all you got with this SC2 thing, many really respect you for it and many have seen that you have potential for great things.

GL man
RaZorwire
Profile Joined April 2012
Sweden718 Posts
August 28 2013 09:42 GMT
#5
Really awesome blog.

I can relate to your negative thoughts, to some extent. I've obviously never been anywhere close to pro-level in SC2, but I have a habit of falling into a similar mindset when failing to put as much time in and reach the results I want in my university studies. Having your mind tell you that you're awful is not an easy thing to overcome, and I imagine it's even more difficult when you have a job that is based around performing and not just doing.

I obviously have no insight at all in the life of an SC2 progamer, but something I've realised can help in other situations in life is to just lower your expectations on yourself, and stop assuming that you "should" be able to overcome this obstacle and that problem (or opponent). No idea if that makes any sense from a pro-gaming perspective, but yeah.

Either way, I really hope you're able to reach your goals, mental ones as well as tournament results. Best of luck and thanks for a really well-written blog entry.
NarutO
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
Germany18839 Posts
August 28 2013 09:44 GMT
#6
I don't have much to say. I think you are a fantastic player but as a player myself I can relate to your feelings. What I have heard about you is that you sometimes need to be forced to eat so thats one suggestion I would make to you. You need proper food and nutrition to be focused and especially to learn :-)!

Other than that its a one liner, but it always motivated me:

Do you remember the guy that gave up? Neither do I, no one does.

I think you pretty much know what that means, keep going, you already had great success and you are a motivation to others, you are one of the more successful foreign players so yup, I think you can be very proud (WHY AM I COMFORTING A ZERG, DIE DIE DIE :D)
CommentatorPolt | MMA | Jjakji | BoxeR | NaDa | MVP | MKP ... truly inspiring.
jax1492
Profile Joined November 2009
United States1632 Posts
August 28 2013 09:53 GMT
#7
sadly you can't win everything, just keep working and good things will happen.
JimmyJRaynor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada16647 Posts
August 28 2013 10:13 GMT
#8
On August 28 2013 17:57 Liquid`Snute wrote:
Not this time, because I love SC2.

its nice to hear players who spend as much time on the game as you do still love it.
Ray Kassar To David Crane : "you're no more important to Atari than the factory workers assembling the cartridges"
Chaplin
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
42 Posts
August 28 2013 10:31 GMT
#9
I really like that you want to face the problems! This is without doubt the right decision.

Concerning practice and unsatisfying results: I can relate from other fields (Go) that putting in long hours does not necessarily make you better.
There are several examples for that, like typing. We all would have to use ten fingers while typing and do this really fast without errors, when you just look at the hours we use the keyboard.
Joshua Foer describes this as the O.K. Plateau and talks about this quite a bit here: http://joshuafoer.com/conquering-the-ok-plateau/
Maybe this can help you.

The other thing I'd like to mention is a quote by Jaedong, where he says (somewhere along these lines) that you can't expect to be on top of the game, when you just practice hard for a couple of months let alone weeks. If you start now to practice hard, you'll get good results in about six months.

The most important thing: Keep your head up and enjoy life =)
URLateral
Profile Joined October 2012
275 Posts
August 28 2013 10:37 GMT
#10
Hang in there Snute you're still like top 3 foreigners out their just keep practicing and try to have the best mindset!
Incanus
Profile Joined October 2009
Canada695 Posts
August 28 2013 11:08 GMT
#11
Whenever I see posts like this, I am reminded of how hard it is to be the best in the world at StarCraft. There are so many people practicing their asses off, to the very limit... It is at the same level as the very best pianists, or the very best in pretty much any profession. I guess the only difference is (for now) there aren't that many 4 year olds practicing StarCraft to go pro, or people in their 40s, 50s, 60s, and so on who are still dedicating their entire lives to it.
Flash: "Why am I so good?" *sob sob*
Anjellycar
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
Sweden416 Posts
August 28 2013 11:26 GMT
#12
When I first saw you play it was at HSC, you did amazingly and you played your heart out as we could all see in the emotions after the finals. To me personally having a tournament to watch without Stephano (back in the days) was impossible. To me all the koreans were obsolete as I wanted to watch people for their personality aswell, not only their skill. You were the 2nd person that I could watch and cheer for and it's basically for who you are and what you have showed both then and now.

How many foreigners or even Koreans do we see work this hard? You under the WCS flew back to Korea after having played your games to get in as much and as good practice you could for the next week. It's the first and the only time I've heard anyone do this. I was amazed. The happiness in interviews, the always so strict streaming thing (stopping if you feel you play bad when in reality you didn't). You have everything it takes to make it and what makes me so sure of that is your wonderful way of thinking! It's just a "wall" to some, where it can be a huge obstacle for some.. Some days everyone will have problems going against them and this hit harder for some than others, your valiant efforts in WCS are greatly appreciated and I believe we all know you will bounce back =)

You're easy to like both as your person in interviews and as a player in a tournament, I believe greater things are coming your way because you have both the charisma and willpower to do and be just that.

"But it ain’t about how hard you hit. It’s about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward; how much you can take and keep moving forward. That’s how winning is done!"

Snute fighting!
Dont worry, be happy!
Amblygon
Profile Joined June 2012
United Kingdom57 Posts
August 28 2013 11:27 GMT
#13
Hi Snute, thanks for posting this! Great blog! (:

I've hit a similar feeling studying a subject I love at a very competitive university. Personally, I've found that it's not skill that's holding me back, but my mind that's holding my skill back. It's difficult to find the root of the problem, and it's even harder to fix it. I would highly recommend putting some time into something that focuses on mindfulness. For me it's yoga, for my partner it's kung fu, for some friends it's tai chi, and a few lucky friends find that mindfulness at the gym. Whatever it is, sometimes it really helps to be able to refocus unhelpful mental energy and reuse it in a healthy way. (:

GL and most importantly HF! <3 (:
Believe in yourself.
desRow
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada2654 Posts
August 28 2013 11:40 GMT
#14
What an amazing blog! Thanks for your sharing your thoughts!
http://twitch.tv/desrowfighting http://twitter.com/desrowfighting http://facebook.com/desrowfighting
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
August 28 2013 11:51 GMT
#15
Amazing blog!
Best of luck in the future Snute!
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Micro_Jackson
Profile Joined August 2011
Germany2002 Posts
August 28 2013 11:55 GMT
#16
Maybe think of it for a different side:

I dont want to argue about the exact numbers thats not the point, but you are:

Top 10 in Europe
Top 100 in the World

Europe has 740 Million people
The World has around 7.1 Billion people

How many people can say "on a good day i am the best in what i am doing in fucking Europe"? People think they are good in their Job? You are in the Top100 of THE ENTIRE FRICKING PLANET in your Job.

I think that is something you should really be proud of, maybe in 20 years from now you can tell your kids:
There were more astronauts in space,
more Super Bowl winners,
more prime ministers of Norway

than people that were better in Starcraft than me.
RiSkysc2
Profile Joined September 2011
696 Posts
August 28 2013 12:37 GMT
#17
Nothing anyone can say can help you break this jens, it's really got to come from you.

Thanks for the blog, was very interesting and mirrors some of my thoughts and feelings on playing sc2 a lot. Hope you can break this, you're fans are always here for you.
mouzChase
Profile Joined April 2011
Germany66 Posts
August 28 2013 12:51 GMT
#18
Maybe you can talk to the coach TLO is working with Helped him alot, maybe can help you too. And ALWAYS remember, youre not playing for us, not playing for fame or money, not playing for the expectations of other. Youre playing for yourself and yourself only. I would switch positions with you all the time :D

Hang on, get out of the darkness and shine again, nobody doubts that you can do this
My opinion here does not reflect the views of my team / twitter @mouzChase / I <3 Scarlett
Nerchio
Profile Joined October 2009
Poland2633 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-28 12:55:53
August 28 2013 12:52 GMT
#19
It's not like I didn't tell you for 1 year that your style is bad? Sure you can call me bm or the worst person ever but my point still stands even though i might not be sending it in a correct way.
Practice is not about brainlessly massing games and it's not brainlessly massing games with replay analysis in between either. I always told myself i am not going to play pure practice sessions longer than 4 hours because it's simply counterproductive(not saying you can't play longer here.. for me it works like that).
You can get mad at me at talking about your mass roach but it's what you did for like 1 year or so. You had good results but it's not the problem with mass roach. Your problem is that you don't change and Starcraft2 needs variety especially when you use something like that. It's type of play that can win the best people and lose against the worst and you just kept hanging to it because it helped you win something.
Consistency is what makes a player the best and you can't achieve that by not changing(it doesn't quite make sense but it's true). With the ammount of hours you put into it you could have thousand different builds. This is why in terms of SC2 i always respected you for hard work(same as Kas) but nothing else.

TLDR: Mass roach is a bad style that will bring you random great results but in a big picture you will lose to the players you shouldn't lose.
Progamer"I am the best" - Nerchio , 2017.
Liquid`Sheth
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States2095 Posts
August 28 2013 12:56 GMT
#20
I'll just be the standard guy cheering you on bud. You can do it
Team LiquidUnderneath it all they were really quite nice. They just got screwed up. Mostly by stuff that wasn't entirely their fault.
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