• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:07
CET 18:07
KST 02:07
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship uThermal 2v2 Circuit
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
GOAT of Goats list
BisuDagger
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 992 users

Phalanx's Daily #85: New season, new PvZ

Blogs > Sir.Phalanx
Post a Reply
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 26 2013 11:51 GMT
#1
Eyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy guys! Phalanx here again. Start of school on the same day as the start of season 5, how fun is that! >> (not very)

Got placed diamond again, but I sure saw that coming. Definitely didn't do well enough in last season to be able to immediately get placed in masters, although I do of course have hopes of getting up to it this season. Also, I've decided that it's finally time to let go of my weird 4base PvZ build. For the most part the mid game and such shape up really well, especially if I scout correctly. However, any sort of early lings at all (scouting around actively) make it too hard for me to preform my build. They could take out the probe going to build, take out the scouting probe, or just generally mess up my reading. It's about time that I try to learn how to PvZ the "standard" way... although my end goal will still always be to get maxed skytoss army >:D.

So today's game will be one of a loss against zerg.

Characters
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]
Johnson, the lovable 1-st scouting probe! Dream profession is Aiur Head Chef.

[image loading]
Mike the stalker. Hardest working of them all, and single-handedly preventing scouting and pressure, while receiving the least credit.

[image loading]
Emily, the mothership core. Has a secret love for education, but quickly gets out of hand and fires photons all over the place if pissed off.

[image loading]
Snowden, the sneaky observer, watching out for the protoss race. He checks your computer history too.

[image loading]
Clyde, the zealot. Often times forgotten about due to cutting corners in the early game, and is always brought around in clutch situations.


replay : http://drop.sc/355517

The Game

Early Game
+ Show Spoiler +

The match up was PvZ, the map was Yeonsu. Since it was a new map, I still was quite far from understanding the best way to play on it. I generally feel uncomfortable when there's backdoor rocks, even though most of the time they probably don't make much of a difference. I start off with my usual 1gate expand/walloff.

[image loading]
From now on you're gonna be back in my base, you gateway!

I'd like to point out here that right as this match started, I felt like I didn't want to play. Maybe it was because it was VS zerg, but as soon as the game loaded up I wished that I had canceled match search. My heart didn't feel too into this game. Anyhow, Johnson scouts around like the good probe he is, checking the 15 pool, and delays the zerg's natural by a tiny bit of time.

[image loading]
Every second counts <3.

The zerg takes his first extractor at around 3:30. A pretty early timing to get it against protoss.I hate it when they get early gas... it means they're not going for standard ol' fast 3base play .

[image loading]

His gas is used primarily to get speed... with his 3rd delayed past the 6 minute mark, I can't help but wonder if getting speed this fast without a 3rd is really worth it. Of course I lost to him so it worked out for him, but it still seems like his macro wasn't as good as it could have bene.

[image loading]
Pool party!

Still with no 3rd in sight, the zerg gets up all 4 of his extractors now at 6:30. I wish that I had checked for all those gasses earlier, it might have made me more alerted to the fact that he was definitely not going to be rushing out some mass tech *cough* mutas *cough*... My oracle poked in a little bit, but since he got up spore crawlers in time I wasn't able to kill anything nor scout much.

[image loading]
Aye mate, lets try actually scouting next time.

I try to go about with my build, just getting only 3 bases fast... and suddenly a ton of speedlings come and attack the 3rd! My oracles were out of position, and i also had less oracles than I normally would (my initial reaction to the scouting was a huge allin) and they were able to force the cancel quite handily.

[image loading]
All I wanted were nice things.


End Game
+ Show Spoiler +

Most of his lings that came around attacking earlier on in the game were cleaned off by my oracles plus a few force fields, and only now did the zerg actually start droning up and surpassing me in worker count. My macro got a bit off after losing the first attempt at my 3rd, so I decided to actually build up some gateways this game. I also got my 2nd stargate, primarily making voidrays out of it (I was still afraid of an allin).

[image loading]

My oracles finally manage to get some economic damage done after they laser a queen to the face, tag team style. I also picked off a couple of drones, but his spore crawlers still were coming up and i could only do a bit of damage. Meanwhile, unscouted by me, his spire was being thrown down... Sigh. A spire. Of course.

[image loading]
TAG TEAM LASER-AGE!!!

All of his agression earlier on in the game had been costing him indirect damage, sitting at a mere 60 drones to my 43 probes 10 minutes in... the more I watch this replay the more I have second thoughts about giving up this strategy. I really do think that the theory of it works, it's just my execution that fails... although perhaps being so hard-counterable at the slightly mistake in scouting can be considered a fatal weakness to the build.

[image loading]
Ohhh mutalisks, so skillfull. Almost as much as mass skillrays.

Once the mutalisks came out it was basically over for me. Although i had 2 stargates created I didn't actually see the mutalisks until they were on top of my units. Stalkers and voidrays can't do shit against mass muta, and my army was torn to shreds.

[image loading]
That zerg really wasn't better than me... stupid mutas.

It's a painful death losing to mutalisks when you have 2 stargates. I tried to get phoenixes out in desparation, but of course it's too late now. I really do hate mutas.


Well folks, I'm losing my PvZs. Can't deny that fact. It's about time I switch it up, and hopefully you'll be seeing some better play out of me soon <3. I'm thinking to start trying to do 1gate expand into phoenixes, maybe colossus/voidray for the mid game. It seems pretty strong, and incorporates some skytoss too. Not sure if that build can transition into full skytoss, but by god I'll try!

Thanks for reading, and GL HF!

P.S.
Phalanx now streams! Subscribe to check it out when I stream, although the times that i do so may be really weird!
http://twitch.tv/sirphalanx

P.P.S.
Check out the website for my current clan as well as my previous clan! Not much to see yet, but with some support more action might get going ;D
http://nacgaming.net http://facebook.com/nacgaming
http://facebook.com/darkonyxftw

P.P.P.S.
Go away I'm trying to internet.

***
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
August 26 2013 12:01 GMT
#2
--- Nuked ---
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 26 2013 13:01 GMT
#3
On August 26 2013 21:01 Emzeeshady wrote:
You really shouldn't blame diamond losses on balance. Mutas are frustrating to defend as Protoss but easily doable with good scouting and micro.


I never blamed balance in the slightest. It's just that I hate fighting mutas ^^. I know they're countered hard by phoenixes, but to be realistic that's the ONLY counter. And thus I dislike fighting them.
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
August 26 2013 13:11 GMT
#4
--- Nuked ---
Sir.Phalanx
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Japan195 Posts
August 26 2013 21:37 GMT
#5
On August 26 2013 22:11 Emzeeshady wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 26 2013 22:01 Sir.Phalanx wrote:
On August 26 2013 21:01 Emzeeshady wrote:
You really shouldn't blame diamond losses on balance. Mutas are frustrating to defend as Protoss but easily doable with good scouting and micro.


I never blamed balance in the slightest. It's just that I hate fighting mutas ^^. I know they're countered hard by phoenixes, but to be realistic that's the ONLY counter. And thus I dislike fighting them.

"The Zerg really wasn't better then me"
"Oh Mutas so skill full"

Sounds like balance whine to me but regardless you can defend mutas without phoenix. It is just harder to do with storm/archons


Ok if it sounded like balance, I'm sorry. When I said that I really did mean that the zerg didn't seem better than me, but not that he won because of imbalance, he won because I simply didn't scout enough/correctly. Had I scouted the spire out, I could have had phoenixes out in time and easily dealt with the mutas. I didn't, and thus I was rolled by them. I won't get into detail on that, but it really wasn't meant to be whining.

Also dealing with mutas without phoenix is so much harder that I think it's basically pointless to even try. Nothing other than phoenixes can really keep the mutas from just flying in, and anything else will most likely end up in a baserace...
Go to school - Laddder - Sleep - repeat. Who needs a social life anyways.
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
August 26 2013 22:45 GMT
#6
Meh, don't worry about Emzeeshady. IIRC, he plays Zerg and has whined plenty (and I mean, plenty) about Protoss.

Besides, I haven't met the Protoss yet who did not also hate Mutas. Yes, we can beat them but it's >_< as fuck, sometimes.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Emzeeshady
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada4203 Posts
August 26 2013 22:54 GMT
#7
--- Nuked ---
aZealot
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
New Zealand5447 Posts
August 27 2013 00:39 GMT
#8
For the record, eh? Right.
KT best KT ~ 2014
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
Season 13 World Championship
MaxPax vs ClassicLIVE!
MaNa vs MilkiCow
GgMaChine vs Mixu
WardiTV1356
IndyStarCraft 195
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 195
BRAT_OK 44
MindelVK 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 31223
Rain 2296
Shuttle 938
EffOrt 465
actioN 305
firebathero 168
Snow 145
Hyuk 127
Hyun 112
Sharp 82
[ Show more ]
Aegong 79
Barracks 56
Dewaltoss 38
Mong 37
Rock 23
ToSsGirL 22
scan(afreeca) 17
soO 15
Shine 14
Sacsri 6
Dota 2
syndereN1245
420jenkins384
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu58
Other Games
Grubby3593
Gorgc3044
Liquid`RaSZi1801
FrodaN1564
hiko1365
Mlord491
Lowko432
ceh9414
B2W.Neo353
Fuzer 317
DeMusliM190
JimRising 186
oskar133
QueenE63
KnowMe60
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick41105
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• naamasc233
• Adnapsc2 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos4733
Other Games
• Shiphtur290
Upcoming Events
SOOP
1d 10h
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
The PondCast
1d 16h
Wardi Open
1d 18h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
3 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-06
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.