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The wife and I moved to Canada almost three years ago.
On our second season of winter, we found ourselves driving home from Church in awful conditions. Thankfully we lived close by and pretty soon we were about to turn into the driveway of our apartment building (we were turning right). There is a very slight downhill just before the entrance so I had to step on the breaks to slow down. No traction. I took my foot off the break and maybe said out load that I can't stop (even though we were moving fairly slowly).
I can't remember exactly, but either because of what I said or maybe the car starting to skid somewhat, my wife begins to panic and starts yelling at me to stop. Even though I knew I shouldn’t, I step on the breaks even harder to see if I could get a semblance of traction. Instead of slowing down, the car starts to skid even more. When we overshoot the entrance with the car sliding forward while turned at a 45 degree angle to the right, I remember thinking -- “that’s it”; “it’s over”; “I can’t stop”; “I don’t have control”. We were going to ram into oncoming traffic and there’s nothing I can do about it.
It was then I noticed that even though there were cars parked on both sides of the road, there was no oncoming traffic! I remember my mind screaming: “I can do this!” Even though I've never before had a car slide out of control like this, I was eerily confident I could avoid the parked cars just by steering the car. I also knew I had to somehow stop the car soon because the downhill steepens a lot more a few feet out and if any oncoming traffic appears, that car won’t be able to stop either.
I quickly counter steer hard to the left to prevent the car from completely spinning out of control. The car responds quickly. We turn more than 120 degrees to the left. I begin to feel some traction now that the car is parallel to the direction it is travelling. I counter steer to the right slightly as stability starts to return to the car. We ended up coming to a halt in the middle of the road having turned 180 degrees from our original position (turned at a 45-degree angle to the right).
Knowing I don’t have time to breathe a sigh of relief just yet, as soon as we stopped, I put the car on reverse (which now reminds me how close we were to hitting the car parked on the left side of the road) before driving back up (very very very slowly, obviously) and now turning left into our apartment building driveway.
What was funny was that there was this couple walking on the sidewalk who saw the entire thing. They were, understandably, shocked, and we remember them just staring at the car the whole time even as we pulled in to the driveway. My wife and I still joke that we almost got out of the car to ask them if they were okay haha!
All of this happened in a matter of seconds but it’s surprising how much detail I remember. Kind of reminds you how fast the brain goes when you need it to. Looking back, I was pretty sure the road was frozen. Having driven on three Canadian winters now, snow is definitely not that slippery.
And if you really think about it -- while we probably wouldn’t have hurt anyone (including ourselves) if I lost control of the car, and the damage would have been minor had we hit the parked cars, the cost of higher insurance premiums would’ve been a lot. I’ve heard of people getting hit with a $2k annual increase in insurance costs for getting into accidents, even a minor one. Being an immigrant with no previous North American driving experience, my insurance premiums are already as much as my car amortization.
When I told people at work this story, my boss said that most people would not steer on the opposite direction of the skid; that most would have the instinct to steer into the skid. Well, there you have it, all that time playing racing games finally paid some dividends. My mind never even considered not counter steering, that was my natural instinct.
EDIT: I don't know anymore if what I said about steering into/opposite the skid is or is not switched. But hopefully you get it. Most people would not counter-steer, which is what you should do.
So hurray for all those driving games with realistic physics!
Now if only I can find a payoff for all that time spent playing and watching starcraft…
P.S.
We got winter tires next winter 
 
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haha awesome glad you made it okay
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you'd think winter tires would be useful in the winter 
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what about hand brake/ manual brake?
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On July 08 2013 03:00 Merik wrote:
what about hand brake/ manual brake?
useless if your tires can't grip the ice
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do you have ABS? (how old is your car?)
The car I used to drive did not come with ABS-it was a very basic model Chevy Cobalt. During winter I had to pump the brake if there was any significant amount of snow or water on the road. Slamming the brakes is not a good idea (even with ABS)
Also if you find yourself oversteering, steering in the direction of the skid and gently accelerating will generally help you regain control of the car. If you try to countersteer to regain control, unless you correctly countersteer, you'll end up making it worse (and if you crash the resultant accident will probably be worse too)
On July 08 2013 00:58 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
When I told people at work this story, my boss said that most people would not steer on the opposite direction of the skid; that most would have the instinct to steer into the skid. Well, there you have it, all that time playing racing games finally paid some dividends. My mind never even considered not counter steering, that was my natural instinct.
and your mind is wrong :p
the natural instinct is to countersteer (to steer against the direction you're skidding).
e: I should clarify, if you oversteer and the back of your car is too far out (so the front of the car is a bit too far right) you've turned the wheel too far to the right. You need to straighten the car by moving the wheel slightly left, but it'll still be toward the right.
If you countersteer and whip the wheel all the way to the left you risk fishtailing and then skidding in the opposite direction. The correction needs to be very small and quick.
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On July 08 2013 03:08 wherebugsgo wrote:do you have ABS? (how old is your car?) The car I used to drive did not come with ABS-it was a very basic model Chevy Cobalt. During winter I had to pump the brake if there was any significant amount of snow or water on the road. Slamming the brakes is not a good idea (even with ABS) Also if you find yourself oversteering, steering in the direction of the skid and gently accelerating will generally help you regain control of the car. If you try to countersteer to regain control, unless you correctly countersteer, you'll end up making it worse (and if you crash the resultant accident will probably be worse too) Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 00:58 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote:
When I told people at work this story, my boss said that most people would not steer on the opposite direction of the skid; that most would have the instinct to steer into the skid. Well, there you have it, all that time playing racing games finally paid some dividends. My mind never even considered not counter steering, that was my natural instinct. and your mind is wrong :p the natural instinct is to countersteer (to steer against the direction you're skidding). e: I should clarify, if you oversteer and the back of your car is too far out (so the front of the car is a bit too far right) you've turned the wheel too far to the right. You need to straighten the car by moving the wheel slightly left, but it'll still be toward the right. If you countersteer and whip the wheel all the way to the left you risk fishtailing and then skidding in the opposite direction. The correction needs to be very small and quick.
I have a 2011 Hyundai accent, so a fairly new car.
I kind of get what you are saying (except the part about steering in the direction of the skid). I guess when I look back, it's obvious I over-corrected on the counter steer to the left that's why we ended up spinning in the other direction before correctly counter steering slightly to the right until the car stopped.
Not to sound like an excuse but the road was curving to the left at that point and there were cars parked on both sides. If I hadn't over-compensated to the left initially, either:
a.) The car might have hit the cars parked on the right side (since the road was curving to the left). I had to change the actual direction the car was heading into, not just prevent the car from fishtailing
b.) The car would straighten, which I admit looks good. I was completely focused on never having to hit the brakes though. I didn't know whether the road further out was frozen. And like I said, the downhill was about to get steeper so I wanted to stop the car asap, and the only way to do that without hitting the brakes was to get it parallel to its momentum so the wheels will stop spinning. Gentle braking might have done the trick; have done this on ice with winter tires -- not sure how well that would've worked with all-seasons and going downhill.
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right so you probably simply lost traction on the wheels. Maybe as a result of some turning but I imagine you were mostly going straight? As you said you had to break before going downhill, then you had to turn.
If you lose traction when going straight (you can feel it before the car begins to skid-it slides a bit and the brakes don't really do anything) you can tap the accelerator to spin the wheels, and that'll usually regain traction. A lot of the time it's more important to be cognizant of the pedals than the steering wheel. It's only really when you start facing the wrong direction when the wheel starts to matter :p
b.) The car would straighten, which I admit looks good. I was completely focused on never having to hit the brakes though. I didn't know whether the road further out was frozen. And like I said, the downhill was about to get steeper so I wanted to stop the car asap, and the only way to do that without hitting the brakes was to get it parallel to its momentum so the wheels will stop spinning. Gentle braking might have done the trick; have done this on ice with winter tires -- not sure how well that would've worked with all-seasons and going downhill.
hindsight is 20/20, but yeah, you can straighten the car without countersteering. You just need traction for the brakes to work-getting the car parallel to its direction of motion is not going to be much more effective in stopping, and in fact it's probably even riskier in terms of hitting something, since if you don't have traction to begin with you're likely to slide for a while. Gaining traction is usually just a matter of getting the wheels spinning a bit, then braking-the ABS usually handles the rest.
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Welcome to Canada!
Despite knowing the technically correct thing to do (steer in the direction of the skid), I've always found driving on snow and ice pretty unpredictable. I've also done a 180 on ice (actually, a 90 degrees to the right followed by a 270 to the left). I was travelling pretty fast on a country road and it happened so fast I couldn't think at all. I doubt I reacted correctly, but I honestly don't remember. I've had a few other minor mishaps... the scariest being the time I started to skid with a large snowplow coming the opposite way at fairly high speed on an undivided highway. Fortunately I've never had a collision myself, but heard stories about ditches and telephone poles, that kind of thing.
Honestly, I think the best thing for winter driving is just to reduce speed so that if something happens, it's not too serious.
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herpaderp
winter tires
woops: you got the memo
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extremly irresponsible to not have winter tires oO
are they not required by law? i mean they are in germany, i couldnt imagine it not being in canada of all countries
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Racing is an excellent way to improve your driving and the safety of your driving on the street. I guess that also goes to a lesser extent for racing games too. Once you're used to handling over/understeer at racing or even general track day speeds doing it on the street is a breeze. I've been driving a rwd sports sedan through hokkaido winters for three years now (no salt or plowing for the most part) without an accident thanks to experience on the track. Being able to look at and react to a situation like yours calmly is crucial to coming out safely, and it's a lot easier to do that when you've done it at much higher speeds in a safe environment before.
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On July 08 2013 11:25 teddyoojo wrote:
extremly irresponsible to not have winter tires oO
are they not required by law? i mean they are in germany, i couldnt imagine it not being in canada of all countries
they're required by law only in quebec
otherwise, I think quite a lot of people still don't have them...
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On July 08 2013 04:20 wherebugsgo wrote:right so you probably simply lost traction on the wheels. Maybe as a result of some turning but I imagine you were mostly going straight? As you said you had to break before going downhill, then you had to turn. If you lose traction when going straight (you can feel it before the car begins to skid-it slides a bit and the brakes don't really do anything) you can tap the accelerator to spin the wheels, and that'll usually regain traction. A lot of the time it's more important to be cognizant of the pedals than the steering wheel. It's only really when you start facing the wrong direction when the wheel starts to matter :p Show nested quote +b.) The car would straighten, which I admit looks good. I was completely focused on never having to hit the brakes though. I didn't know whether the road further out was frozen. And like I said, the downhill was about to get steeper so I wanted to stop the car asap, and the only way to do that without hitting the brakes was to get it parallel to its momentum so the wheels will stop spinning. Gentle braking might have done the trick; have done this on ice with winter tires -- not sure how well that would've worked with all-seasons and going downhill. hindsight is 20/20, but yeah, you can straighten the car without countersteering. You just need traction for the brakes to work-getting the car parallel to its direction of motion is not going to be much more effective in stopping, and in fact it's probably even riskier in terms of hitting something, since if you don't have traction to begin with you're likely to slide for a while. Gaining traction is usually just a matter of getting the wheels spinning a bit, then braking-the ABS usually handles the rest.
I lost traction while going straight, but my mistake was I kept trying to get the brakes to stop the car, which could have made me skid facing the right? So yeah, by the time I knew it was dead serious and I had to do "something", the car was already skidding angled to the right.
I've never tried using the accelerator after skidding. Like I said, with winter tires, I've tried using the brakes, which worked if you don't slam on them. Unless there's a lot of space, I'd have to have nerves of steel to try that though since first reaction would be to try and stop.
On gaining traction by getting the wheels to spin, not sure I get it. These are crappy all seasons probably stuffed with snow on the treads and gliding on frozen road. Spinning or locked, they won't have enough traction I would think. Having said that though, when I think about it you are right in that even getting the car parallel to it's momentum might not have been enough to stop it. I might have been just lucky enough that that part of the road was no longer frozen.
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Snow tends to get really slippery at places where people brake a lot or accelerate. So when driving on snow/ice, you can assume you'll have less traction in downhill slopes and before intersections. The more people skid there, the more they polish the surface. Ironically, these places are where you need traction the most.
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On July 08 2013 05:15 munchmunch wrote:
Welcome to Canada!
Despite knowing the technically correct thing to do (steer in the direction of the skid), I've always found driving on snow and ice pretty unpredictable. I've also done a 180 on ice (actually, a 90 degrees to the right followed by a 270 to the left). I was travelling pretty fast on a country road and it happened so fast I couldn't think at all. I doubt I reacted correctly, but I honestly don't remember. I've had a few other minor mishaps... the scariest being the time I started to skid with a large snowplow coming the opposite way at fairly high speed on an undivided highway. Fortunately I've never had a collision myself, but heard stories about ditches and telephone poles, that kind of thing.
Honestly, I think the best thing for winter driving is just to reduce speed so that if something happens, it's not too serious.
Well, you were driving a lot lot faster than I was, which was probably close to 10km/hr! Like you said, it's about driving slowly so as to minimize the severity of any accident. Because if something does happen, a lot of times, it's only luck that determines the outcome.
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EPT
