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Are tournaments without KESPA players significantly less prestigious?
Homestory Cup VII was packed with most of Europe's best players (Stephano, Mana, Snute), along with a sprinkling of interesting Koreans (MC, Violet, Taeja). However, I couldn't bring myself to call it a championship. What's more, when Snute played Taeja, the foreigner vs Korean wasn't intriguing because Taeja isn't on a KESPA team.
I found that for me, Korean was less a nationality, and more the moniker applied to a player who dedicated himself fully to Starcraft, on a team of players who do the same, and in a system (perfected over a decade) designed to create the best Starcraft players possible.
I enjoyed Dreamhack and HSCVII, but the skill displayed in most of the matches pales in the comparison to what you find on any day of the week for SPL.
For me, tournaments without KESPA players can be good entertainment, but they need to be included for a real competition -- a real championship where the winner can lay a decent claim to being the best.
 
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it might not be the most presigious but it is by far the best weekend of the year for SC2. Its like a 3 day long strategy session and all the players love it.
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Sadly, I'm afraid you may be correct. Back in 2011, the best players in the world were players like Mvp, Nestea, MC, MMA, MKP, DRG, etc. These players inspired fear into their opponents, and dominated. When they went to a tournament, people were hyped and noticed.
Today, when I think of the best players in the world, I think of Innovation, Flash, Rain, Soulkey, and Life. However, given the past week, I suddenly have doubts about Life. When the world's best players are Kespa and they don't show, you'll always feel like something is missing.
Kespa right now has the best players, but not every Kespa player is so dominant. Stats, soO and Dear are going to MLG, but it's a lot less hyped than if Flash, Rain or Innovation were going. Instead, it is not the lack of Kespa, but the lack of Kespa's finest players that make tournaments feel less prestigious.
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5 stars cause i suck KESPA dick (no homo).
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On June 24 2013 09:29 ChoiSulli wrote:
5 stars cause i suck KESPA dick (no homo).
i also sucks KeSPA's dick.
i agree with Bagration but let me ask a counter qusetion:
Do we always need the best players?
I think it's better when lesser players have the time to shine, not every tourney needs to show the best sc possible.
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On June 24 2013 10:04 [N3O]r3d33m3r wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 09:29 ChoiSulli wrote:
5 stars cause i suck KESPA dick (no homo). i also sucks KeSPA's dick. i agree with Bagration but let me ask a counter qusetion: Do we always need the best players? I think it's better when lesser players have the time to shine, not every tourney needs to show the best sc possible.
This is just my opinion, but we shouldn't always have the best players, because like you said, we need space for rising stars. Furthermore, the best players can't play in that many tournaments anyways. PL + WCS already keep most of the Kespa stars occupied, so they definitely can't be going to foreign weekend tournaments that often. Which isn't necessarily bad, since it makes the tournaments they do attend more hyped and special.
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SPL produces many shitty games every week. For sure, there are some extremely talented players in every teams but once you've seen hyvaa played, you understand that the KeSPA trooper is just average.
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The KeSPA system seems to be amazing at creating tip-top players, such as Innovation or Flash. However, an average KeSPA player isn't better than the average ESF player. Though, the practice schedule of the KeSPA teams seem to be able to refine gameplay to be a little tighter than the looser schedules of players outside that organization.
I still love to watch GSTL, and IMO the games aren't any better than Proleague. They aren't any worse either.
I think that the player's origin doesn't matter. Most of the top players can take games and even best-of's from each other, be they ESF or KeSPA.
I just like to watch StarCraft in general. All tournaments are good and prestigious tournaments in my mind.
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Because they weren't supposed to be a championship? It's still a fun event and heck Blizzard still throws WCS points at them.
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On June 24 2013 11:22 Otolia wrote:
SPL produces many shitty games every week. For sure, there are some extremely talented players in every teams but once you've seen hyvaa played, you understand that the KeSPA trooper is just average.
The crazy thing is, I'd still bet if hyvaa was in WCS AM or EU, he'd likely make top 8.
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Not sure what SPL games you've been watching but I usually refer to proleague as noobleague. Sure they are getting better but often times I see derps.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On June 24 2013 12:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Not sure what SPL games you've been watching but I usually refer to proleague as noobleague. Sure they are getting better but often times I see derps.
Who plays better? GTSL? The guys in GTSL can't even make Code A.
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On June 24 2013 12:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Not sure what SPL games you've been watching but I usually refer to proleague as noobleague. Sure they are getting better but often times I see derps.
Oh yeah frankenleague was horrendous and to this day we still see a lot of crappy games in PL. Now, I haven't really paid a lot of attention to the GSTL this season for several reasons (mostly due to their scheduling), so it's hard for me to comment on their games as well. From what I remember there is a lot of derp in both.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
there are bad games in both GSTL and SPL but there are probably more good SPL games than GSTL games (although that might be due to the fact that there are four times as many SPL games per week). the best SPL players are also a bit better than the best GSTL players although the average player in each is close i reckon
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On June 24 2013 14:00 opterown wrote:
there are bad games in both GSTL and SPL but there are probably more good SPL games than GSTL games (although that might be due to the fact that there are four times as many SPL games per week). the best SPL players are also a bit better than the best GSTL players although the average player in each is close i reckon
Indeed. The GSTL format still leaves something to be desired. I mean one match a week? Give me a break.
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On June 24 2013 12:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Not sure what SPL games you've been watching but I usually refer to proleague as noobleague. Sure they are getting better but often times I see derps.
The poverty league that is GSTL doesn't even compare man. PL sucked really bad during the hybrid garbage, but it is by far the better teamleague (in terms of player pool).
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On June 24 2013 14:37 Megaliskuu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 12:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Not sure what SPL games you've been watching but I usually refer to proleague as noobleague. Sure they are getting better but often times I see derps. The poverty league that is GSTL doesn't even compare man. PL sucked really bad during the hybrid garbage, but it is by far the better teamleague (in terms of player pool).
imo not only is it better in terms of player pool but also I like the format better. I wish GSTL would do the same format, normal lineup and then go by rounds, aka round 1 normal, round 2 all kill, etc. I would prefer the switching around like proleague does then just all kill or just proleague format.
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On June 24 2013 13:01 T.O.P. wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 12:56 CecilSunkure wrote:
Not sure what SPL games you've been watching but I usually refer to proleague as noobleague. Sure they are getting better but often times I see derps. Who plays better? GTSL? The guys in GTSL can't even make Code A.
Right now I haven't seen any better now that I think about it. I think that's mostly just because HotS came out and sort of leveled the playing field for a little while. I haven't watched any GSTL since WoL though.
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They don't get enough reps in man. I really wish we would stop the bush league crap and have the players play in more meaningful things. I mean the eSF teams have decent size rosters and half the time you won't get to see a lot of the blokes play. Really no point. Heck, they even bring their dogs down to the show lol.
If it were me I would get rid of the GSTL, put the other teams in PL. Have OGN, SOPA and GOM cast the matches.
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T.O.P.
Hong Kong4685 Posts
On June 24 2013 15:11 StarStruck wrote:
They don't get enough reps in man. I really wish we would stop the bush league crap and have the players play in more meaningful things. I mean the eSF teams have decent size rosters and half the time you won't get to see a lot of the blokes play. Really no point. Heck, they even bring their dogs down to the show lol.
If it were me I would get rid of the GSTL, put the other teams in PL. Have OGN, SOPA and GOM cast the matches.
Ideally, cut Team 8. Add LG-IM, institute a draft.
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On June 24 2013 21:20 Sated wrote:
I'd take HSC (awesome casting, fun downtime and overall solid games) over OSL (terrible in-house casters, shitty Bo1 format, less drama, less fun overall) any day...
Many posters seem to share the same opinion as you. I actually agree. In fact, Some of my favorite matches to watch are NA Old Guard (Nony, Idra, etc...) vs NA New Guard (Puck, Kane, etc...). I just don't consider those tournaments without KESPA players championships anymore.
I've got to admit I was pretty irrational before. I, and in fact almost everyone else, considered early MLGs championships. It's just that watching HSC VII yeserday was the final straw. Even though it had a very high caliber of players, I wasn't going to start campaigning for Snute to move to Korea and play in WCS Korea if he won because I don't believe he could go over there and dominate.
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On June 24 2013 21:47 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 21:20 Sated wrote:
I'd take HSC (awesome casting, fun downtime and overall solid games) over OSL (terrible in-house casters, shitty Bo1 format, less drama, less fun overall) any day... Many posters seem to share the same opinion as you. I actually agree. In fact, Some of my favorite matches to watch are NA Old Guard (Nony, Idra, etc...) vs NA New Guard (Puck, Kane, etc...). I just don't consider those tournaments without KESPA players championships anymore. I've got to admit I was pretty irrational before. I, and in fact almost everyone else, considered early MLGs championships. It's just that watching HSC VII yeserday was the final straw. Even though it had a very high caliber of players, I wasn't going to start campaigning for Snute to move to Korea and play in WCS Korea if he won because I don't believe he could go over there and dominate.
I am sort of over the need to have the "highest level of play" at every event, or any event that I watch. Because SC2 has no official major or minor leagues, it disappointment or total blow outs. No one needs to be shown that Innovation can beat any player in NA and most of EU, because it's already known. I enjoy watching WCS KR, Proleague and other games from the Korean region, but I don't need that play exported to every event across the globe.
I think of it like the Harvard vs Yale football game every year. Or two local high school teams. To a set group of people, there is a ton of investment in that game. To the rest of us, just another football game. HSC is the same way. Its not the highest level of play, but every tournament can't have that level of play.
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EPT
