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United States10328 Posts
Hi TL,
First, here's some background: I'm a junior math major applying for software internships this summer. I'm mainly interested in trying to learn as much as possible from an internship position; location, pay, "feeling like I contribute" and "networking" are secondary concerns as well.
Being a pure math major---yeah yeah, it's unrelated to what I'm planning on doing, but it's fun and interesting---I'm not exactly a master coder, though I have a bit of experience from working at a tiny startup last summer and know some things about algorithms. I currently have an internship offer from exactly one place (along with loads of rejections...), a small (~20-30 engineers) but fairly successful company (Company 1.) Their pay is pretty good, their culture seems super cool, and their product is interesting. They already have infrastructure set up, so I can probably get a good feel of what it's like to work in a "real company."
I promised this company that I'd respond to their offer by March 15 (this Friday). However, I'm still going through interviews with a few other places, and think I have a pretty decent chance at them:
- A very large/successful company (Company 2) with lots of intern positions. I already declined one "host offer" from here because they gave me a very tight deadline, but they're setting me up to interview with another "host" this week. This company is big enough that I probably won't feel very "important" to them or whatever product I'm working on, but since it's big, there's a lot of opportunity to learn. On the other hand, I've heard that because they're so big, they sometimes give interns "pet projects" which aren't very fun. They usually pay very well, a bit better than my current offer.
- A moderately large company (Company 3). They've been a bit lackluster in scheduling interviews, and want to schedule one this week and one next Monday (after the deadline.) Since they're smaller, they'll probably give interns slightly more important projects, but they're probably less exciting than any of my other options. They pay about the same as my current offer.
- A very new startup (Company 4), recently founded by three guys I know; all are from my university, and two also went to my high school; I'm pretty good friends with one of them. They're just entering the "hiring phase": they have a basic product and some customers lined up, and are pretty sure they'll have revenue soon. Their idea is very cool, and since it's a small place, there's a high probability that I'll get to do something actually important. On the other hand, I probably won't have the freedom to try to learn a broad range of things, since I'll probably be doing whatever's needed to keep the company going. Not sure yet about the pay, but they have enough VC funding that it's likely to be similar to my current offer.
Now the problem is this: Company 4, which I think I'm most interested in among Companies 2/3/4 (despite the fact that I've already had experience working at a tiny startup, and probably would like to experience working somewhere bigger), really would like me to ask for an offer deadline extension of a few weeks. This is reasonable for them because they just started hiring very recently and probably can't make a decision in only a week. A deadline extension would also give me enough time to interview at Company 2 and 3 (though it's possible that I could get an offer from Company 2 by the end of the week, that's cutting it close.)
However, I'm worried that asking for a deadline extension would make it seem to Company 1 that I'm just stringing them along and using them as a last resort, even though I've repeatedly told them that "you're my top choice, but I just want to wait until March 15 to get a chance to interview elsewhere."
I probably should decide what to do by tonight or tomorrow afternoon at the latest; any advice?
UPDATE:
Decision day is today. Company 3, which I was previously not as excited about, was very accommodating with their interview process and hired me, offering me quite a bit more than Company 1 (probably influenced by the number I gave them from Company 1, haha), and entrance into what the recruiter claimed was a "prestigious" team. (On the flip side, housing near there costs more than housing near Company 1.)
I still am not sure about the culture at Company 3, though they seem to be pretty committed to making sure employees have a good time (but what tech company isn't?) They have ~140 engineers and will have ~30 interns, but also told me that I'll be able to work on real things. What to do...
 
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I've done seven internships in total, so I really think I can give you some advice.
Is this your first internship? A couple of things with regards to software engineering: unless you've done it professionally, it's very different from what you learn in classes and projects. If this is your first job, I would recommend a company that is bigger, because there will be more structure, they will know how and where to place interns with any level of practical experience.
I did my first internship at a startup, and it was awful, because they really needed people who could do real work, so I was lost most of the time, and the employees had little time to hand-hold me. The other intern who was in his senior year really enjoyed it though.
My second internship was at a large firm, and it was enjoyable primarily because they were so used to the internship process, and the managers knew how to mentor their interns. The company had some 40-50 interns, and hosted various events and make it incredibly fun.
For my last internship, I tried another startup, and it was my favourite internship. By this time, I was actually useful. I worked on two projects that had immense impact on the business, and worked lots of late nights with senior engineers and the CTO, but it was great fun. I think I touched every single component and technology at the time, and learned tons.
I hope this provides you some perspective on what you would like to do. While internships are great segues into fulltime offers, in the software development field, getting a job is really not all that difficult if you are actually good.
Having said all of that, unless you are confident in obtaining another offer, I would just take company 1.
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Baa?21247 Posts
If this is your first internship, I echo taking company 1.
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This might be incredibly interesting to you - it's a piece by a CEO of a company that sounds much like your Company 1 that talks about 'exploding offers' (ie. you must respond to us by this date or the offer goes away type deals). The whole blog is actually really cool - I'm a software engineering student and I'm thinking about a lot of the same things you are, and the author of that blog talks about tons of stuff that really interested me, but this post in particular was really brought to mind here.
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Wow pretty impressive that you got many offers. I kinda got lucky with my internships and my friends mostly took the first ones they got.
I think you're on the right track: purpose, fun, and learning are all good motivators. So is time spent with friends. Something that should not be overlooked.
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Baa?21247 Posts
On March 13 2013 12:01 obesechicken13 wrote:
Wow pretty impressive that you got many offers. I kinda got lucky with my internships and my friends mostly took the first ones they got.
I think you're on the right track: purpose, fun, and learning are both good motivators. So is time spent with friends. One that should not be overlooked.
? Reading comprehension bro, he hasn't even interviewed at 2-4 yet, he has one offer. If he has the offers already I don't think there'd be a dilemma.
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On March 13 2013 12:13 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:Show nested quote +On March 13 2013 12:01 obesechicken13 wrote:
Wow pretty impressive that you got many offers. I kinda got lucky with my internships and my friends mostly took the first ones they got.
I think you're on the right track: purpose, fun, and learning are both good motivators. So is time spent with friends. One that should not be overlooked. ? Reading comprehension bro, he hasn't even interviewed at 2-4 yet, he has one offer. If he has the offers already I don't think there'd be a dilemma.
Yes. Sorry. I did actually read that and I did know it, but it's still impressive I suppose that he feels he can get some of these positions and has applied to so many before the school year has even closed.
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As an anonymous user to you on an Internet forum, my advice to you would be to take the offer that is concrete, rather than wait on the possibility of getting an offer. I would ask for an extension, and if not possible, just take the offer. Be open and honest about your situation, and there shouldn't be too many hard feelings. Stuff like this does happen.
But what am I to you? Hell, for all you know, I might not even be human, but just a random spambot sent to plague the TL forums. But in the end, it's about you, and ultimately is up to you to decide which path is best for you.
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United States10328 Posts
To clarify, I did an internship at a startup last summer. I think I got some of the "tiny startup" feel out of it (and also learned lots of Python!)
Thanks for the responses (and I'm certainly leaning toward Company 1), though I'm more looking for advice on whether to ask for an extension. I've read the "exploding offers" thing Cyx linked; the difference here is that they made the offer in November (so they didn't really pressure me into it), and I chose March 15 because my school "requires companies hiring interns on campus to give us until March 15."
Again, thanks for your advice!
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Company 1.
Company 4 is a bit too small to learn (it is better to go to those companies when you trying to go full-time AND you are going to contribute once you are on board. Not to say that you lack experience or anything, but I think that Company 4 might not have the best practices for you to learn (TDD/BDD, or Agile or whatnot)
Company 1 on the other hand, the size of it makes sure that it is a running startup and it has a fairly mature system to learn from. I would lean towards companies of that kind 100%.
I went to a company of 30 people last summer as a junior. The development team had only 8 people. It was super fun to work in such a tight group, yet they already had a very nice system going on (Scrum + BDD, and we watched Uncle Bob's Clean Code videos for Lunch and Learn, etc.). I learned a shit ton the past summer and finally got me to Amazon.com in the coming August for full-time.
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As someone who interned last summer at what I think is exactly Company 2, although maybe just a similar one, I'd pick Company 1 if I were you. My experience was good, and I'm going back there to work full time, but my friends who interned at startups had really different experiences than I did and they sounded a lot better for blooming into a good dev. Plus you already know you like the place, while finding a good host, team, and project at a big company isn't always as easy as it seems, especially since I suspect by this time of the year lots of projects have already been claimed.
I wouldn't even ask for an extension -- it'll probably be fine, but they might react poorly since you already gave them a date you said you'd decide by. They'll probably understand your situation if you explain it to them, though, since they were once very popular interns too ;p
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As somebody who was an intern at a large company (as a software developer) last summer, I can tell you that you probably should take option one. At this point in your career, you want to receive as much training and practical experience as possible. This means doing interesting work and feeling valued for it. I can attest that large companies do indeed sometimes give pet projects that aren't very interesting to their interns, as this was exactly what happened to me. The pay was good, but at the end of the day I was bored with my work, and not gaining the skills I would have attained at a smaller company.
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On March 13 2013 12:57 ]343[ wrote:
To clarify, I did an internship at a startup last summer. I think I got some of the "tiny startup" feel out of it (and also learned lots of Python!)
Thanks for the responses (and I'm certainly leaning toward Company 1), though I'm more looking for advice on whether to ask for an extension. I've read the "exploding offers" thing Cyx linked; the difference here is that they made the offer in November (so they didn't really pressure me into it), and I chose March 15 because my school "requires companies hiring interns on campus to give us until March 15."
Again, thanks for your advice!
Ooh, fair enough, I guess I fail a bit at reading comprehension too - either way, a lot of the stuff on that blog might still be cool to you =)
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United States10328 Posts
UPDATE:
Decision day is today. Company 3, which I was previously not as excited about, was very accommodating with their interview process and hired me, offering me quite a bit more than Company 1 (probably influenced by the number I gave them from Company 1, haha), and entrance into what the recruiter claimed was a "prestigious" team.
I still am not sure about the culture at Company 3, though they seem to be pretty committed to making sure employees have a good time (but what tech company isn't?) They have ~140 engineers and will have ~30 interns, but also told me that I'll be able to work on real things. What to do...
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I'd go with #3 personally.
Your initial reservation regarding them could be due to a number of factors. Was the person making the initial contact even the hiring manager or just some secretary? With so many engineers working there, odds are you'll be able to network fairly well. I'm sure working with a prestigious team and doing applicable work would be more beneficial for you in the future as well. Additionally having significantly higher pay doesn't hurt.
The only downside is the 30 other interns, can you stand out amongst them?
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What's the deadline for #3? Will 2 and 4 have made their decisions by then?
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United States10328 Posts
I think #4 decided to end the interview process; not sure about #2.
#3's deadline is probably in a week or so; not totally sure... but I'm planning on deciding tomorrow (since Company 1 said "you can have an extra day.")
Some more info: #3 is in a more expensive location than #1 (but provides enough housing stipend that this might be a wash). #1 has free meals every day, whereas #3 doesn't.
In the end though, I'm still looking for the place I think I can learn the most from. My project[s] at #3 seem very similar to what I worked on last summer (though in a much more structured environment I'm sure), while #1 works in a pretty different field that I'm also interested in.
I guess the main question is: can I learn more at a mid-sized company or a small company? :/
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In my line of work internships usually go like this:
big company ---> "shitty" job, good prospects, network etc
small company ---> job with lots of responsibility, but much less prospects and network.
Future wise I suggest you go for the big company, its usually the better choice. BUT if you are doing this purely as something to gather some experience than I suggest you go for the small company, as your job will probably be a lot more interesting.
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United States10328 Posts
Well, I decided on Company 1. Thanks a lot to everyone for all the advice!
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Calgary26003 Posts
Company 1 seemed like the best bet anyway. Good luck 
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EPT
