EPTOn December 19 2012 10:51 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChewbaccaDefense
Why are you trying to disagree when we don't even disagree
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On December 19 2012 10:48 Caihead wrote:
That's a pretty generalized statement... How many of those who champion modern free market economies even knows what Adam Smith referred to when he mentioned "invisible hand" in wealth of nations? How many of those who mindlessly defend the American constitution even knows the individual views of the founding fathers and the historical context? Any beliefs system gets bogged down overtime with corrupted bureaucracies and obscene misrepresentation for private gain.
On December 19 2012 10:44 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Nonono you misunderstand. I was responding to daphreak who implied my entire schtick is based on being an oppressed mormon. I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was that the dogmatic interpretations of the Bible, Joe Smitty, and the BOM created a culture of eat-breathe-live mormons, when original ideas of the church (that changed on a dime, thanks to Joe's "infallibility") was of works and community and love (even if he was just some guy that wanted his own church and money, that's another discussion, I'm just saying it used to be about the positives).
You know, it's kind of like the people that call themselves Christians. but obviously skipped the part of the bible where Jesus actually spoke. You know, the love, forgiveness, grace, charity. Fuck that, you have to follow OUR rules to get into heaven. Wear this, do this, drink this, don't touch yourself, and so on. At least some Christians are actually true to the name.
On December 19 2012 10:36 Caihead wrote:
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
On December 19 2012 10:32 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
On December 19 2012 10:17 dAPhREAk wrote:
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
On December 19 2012 10:10 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
Personal note: Jehovah's Witnesses are FAR more persistent. Mormon's will actually go away, and even leave you alone for a few months. If you open a door once for a JW, you're fucked. The only effective way to get a JW to stop coming every week is to argue with them (calmly) and then wait for the thousands of opportunities they give you to leave them speechless. But it's exhausting to get to that point.
Mormons? Throw pity upon these young men, not rage. They're threatened with their celestial status if they do not go. Tithing is all but compulsory and yet you still have to pay to even go on a mission! For men, you really can't not go on your mission and stay in the church and not expect severe social backlash, not to mention the shame from your own family. Mormons are absurdly nosy about everyone's life from the congregation. They take the whole "brother/sister" prefixes much too far. You can say freedom of choice and use your brain and whatnot, but let me tell you, when you're raised in a very precise, calculated way, and they use the emotions and judgments against you, they make it tough to even speak a foul word, let alone walk away or say no.
Can you tell I was raised mormon yet? lol
jack fucking mormon you mean. i see your handle is just a call for help from the oppressiveness of the doctrine and covenants.
You've always been my biggest critic
No, the teachings of the church itself are not oppressive (although are as absurd most beliefs), it's the culture that's the problem. Being mormon is a complete commitment of all your spare time and energy, not a see-you-next-Sunday kind of class. You are instructed to only have mormon friends, and if not, convert your non-mormon friends so now you don't have to feel bad about hanging out with non-mormons. Youth Firesides, Youth Conferences, Youth Dances, youth planning meetings, Boy Scouts, seminary (it's 5-day a week Bible school in high school, all four years), youth night, priesthood meeting, fast offerings, fasting, tithing, and temple work (oh Lord...). It went from, "Do good works" to "YOUR ASS IS FREE SPIRITUAL LABOR ON DEMAND"
I imagine it's even worse for the women, who still have shitload of work but stress the importance of being a good mormon wife and mother, since that's all they're allowed to do.
It's not oppression in the sense of a class struggle or one party subjugating another, but oppression in terms of ideology. You can apply the same definition of oppression and say that in alot of cases the middle class is oppressed into wallowing in mundane mediocrity and forced to work for no appreciable gain or progress from cradle to grave. The mormon ideology is definitely oppressive, any ideology that dictates how an individual has to act down to every minute detail is oppressive, even if the ideology's values are good.
Nonono you misunderstand. I was responding to daphreak who implied my entire schtick is based on being an oppressed mormon. I don't disagree with what you said, but my point was that the dogmatic interpretations of the Bible, Joe Smitty, and the BOM created a culture of eat-breathe-live mormons, when original ideas of the church (that changed on a dime, thanks to Joe's "infallibility") was of works and community and love (even if he was just some guy that wanted his own church and money, that's another discussion, I'm just saying it used to be about the positives).
You know, it's kind of like the people that call themselves Christians. but obviously skipped the part of the bible where Jesus actually spoke. You know, the love, forgiveness, grace, charity. Fuck that, you have to follow OUR rules to get into heaven. Wear this, do this, drink this, don't touch yourself, and so on. At least some Christians are actually true to the name.
That's a pretty generalized statement... How many of those who champion modern free market economies even knows what Adam Smith referred to when he mentioned "invisible hand" in wealth of nations? How many of those who mindlessly defend the American constitution even knows the individual views of the founding fathers and the historical context? Any beliefs system gets bogged down overtime with corrupted bureaucracies and obscene misrepresentation for private gain.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ChewbaccaDefense
Why are you trying to disagree when we don't even disagree
I'm just waiting for my god damn food delivery to arrive humour me :3
![[image loading]](http://img223.imageshack.us/img223/3817/kruemelmonsteryn0.gif)
