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On October 22 2012 03:56 Wildmoon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 03:52 Xiphos wrote:On October 22 2012 03:43 Wildmoon wrote:
Most people are just too stupid to understand. Reddit is pretty useless site and TL is starting to become less and less constructive. I am all for constructive suggestion thread and people should keep doing it but just don't act like a baby when your ideas are not used. I am also fucking sick of all useless threads. They are not stupid but actually pretty smart of admitting flaws in the game. Didn't want to be blinded by false hope from Blizzard. Its useless to get mad at them because there will be increasingly amount of materials dedicated at pointing out the flaws of the game. Constructive post that point out the flaws of the game and the way to fix it and let people dicussing it is always good but that's not what I called stupid such as noone really think the recent Grubby's thread was stupid. Read my post again.
Who is acting like a baby in the first place LOL
Yeah no one, everyone is weighing on the flaws of the game. Again, its common sense that some ideas might be used, no need to state the obvious.
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If Dustin Browder's feelings get hurt from reading TL and that's why he won't listen to community feedback, then he should quit his job.
This whole thing about community feedback and 'telling Blizzard our feelings' thing is so ridiculous, as if Blizzard can't just read the TL forums on their own.
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On October 22 2012 03:13 Denzil wrote:
Shame most of the posters in thIs thread have already missed your point DoA
Thanks for trying though
Same impression here. If people are struggling to understand the general notion of this thread, what chances are that fable analogy has been properly understood. none.
I agree with 2 posts here. First, DoA's, very good points although it's kind of ridiculous to have to remind people the most natural and obvious truths. Second, the post saying Blizzard is very slow to implement most basic stuff. even when aware of the issue. I'm not even entirely sure it's programmer's fault. Maybe it's that their designs are really hard to change and not general enough. Feels like they have to give priority to the really, really REALLY most urgent tasks. Let's face the truth blizz is too big, and by having such anti-agile environment, their product updates, and especially design changes, are a huge pain.
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If DB and the Blizz game developers have any sense, they'll stay away from TL and Reddit. The recent spate of QQ threads on Blizzard and SC2 is like visiting a festering sewage dump. This place is suddenly full of screaming keyboard experts.
Stay the fuck away, Blizzard. For your own good.
The same goes for design feedback from most pros. Any feedback from pros should be from those of high quality and/or able to be objective about their race and the game. This means listening but not necessarily heeding feedback from pros like Grubby, Whitera, Stephano, QXC, Thorzain, Nony etc or from the top tier Koreans like Nestea, MC, MVP, DRG etc. Input from Artosis, Day9, Apollo may also be useful. I hope they ignore design feedback from mediocre nonentities like Catz and Destiny.
Nice post, by the way, DOA. Constructive criticism is better but, unfortunately, it's rare and gets drowned out in the noise.
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Well said. And thank goodness you said it. When I see people raging about how they won't even buy HotS because it "looks like shit" and "Blizzard fucked it up hard," it really bugs me. Starcraft is a great game, why would you not give it a chance?
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On October 22 2012 02:38 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:33 Greenhit wrote:On October 22 2012 01:57 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Being overly positive and nice only makes it easier for people to walk all over you. Sometimes you need to get angry and start yelling to get shit done.
We tried being nice and Blizz has not done anything to help fix obvious issues with their game. This is the angry overentitled style that hes referring to I would imagine. Why not people just stop pretending they have any idea how to develop a game with the complexity and scale of a game like Starcraft? The PROS should have input, yes, but other then that, I doubt any change good or bad has been made just because a random average joe had some sort of input. Then did you read pros opinions on HOTS ? What did they say again ?
Pros say the game is bad. But my point (which you clearly missed) was that I gurantee professional players have better insight then the average player, even if they are in masters.
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On October 22 2012 02:58 m3rciless wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:21 Boonbag wrote:On October 22 2012 02:06 m3rciless wrote:
I just want the pillars to come back.
Where is chill? Where is the old school, who know what this website was meant to be? Why are the forums filled with these garbage threads? Starcraft is so much bigger than it ever was, why are we all so unhappy. because it's boring to watch and repetitive Yeah but i still want chill to talk about it. I never see chill anymore. I feel like the old strengths of the community are jaded and tired.
I think a lot of them feel that way because of the kind of boredom/repetitiveness that sc2 can take on at times and stuff :/ it's also for a variety of reasons of course: the sheer volume of flooding posts, the lack of interest in a game that just can't seem to bring the excitement that BW did and still does bring, etc. 
I shall hope on though, and well-said DoA ><
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On October 22 2012 02:33 Greenhit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:57 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Being overly positive and nice only makes it easier for people to walk all over you. Sometimes you need to get angry and start yelling to get shit done.
We tried being nice and Blizz has not done anything to help fix obvious issues with their game. This is the angry overentitled style that hes referring to I would imagine. Why not people just stop pretending they have any idea how to develop a game with the complexity and scale of a game like Starcraft? The PROS should have input, yes, but other then that, I doubt any change good or bad has been made just because a random average joe had some sort of input.
I think the multi-billion video game giant that is Activision Blizzard can afford to reinvest a little time and effort into their game.
We the community tried being nice since beta and a beta is designed to solve a lot of issues. Given that fact a beta cannot find all the issues and they need to be looked at case by case basis. The fact that being nice has not been effective at all is the main reason people are upset. People just do not want Heart of the Swarm to end up like Wings of Liberty did upon release. To this day the game is still plagued with issues from release and dare do I say Battle.net!
Blizzard has some big shoes to fill come Heart of the Swarm because Brood War set the bar pretty high. Heart of the Swarm I believe will make or break competitive SC2. Lastly not everyone pretends they know how to develop a game but they are the end user of the game which gives them an informed opinion. I myself think very poorly of blizzards newest generations of games such as D3 and SC2: WOL. Regardless I will find myself spending the 50-60$ USD on another half ass game designed to take my money due to the branding.
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WOAH WHAT? I think I just read an opinion that said that Jessica over-reacted and did something stupid. Now its time to overreact, say she is killing e-Sports, call a bunch of sponsors on all the eSF teams, request all korean teams to dissolve and not be happy until it happens, that and post  all over random fan clubs. I'm being facetious, but that is what I feel like happens when drama like this occurs in sc2.
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On October 22 2012 05:18 Greenhit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:38 Boonbag wrote:On October 22 2012 02:33 Greenhit wrote:On October 22 2012 01:57 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Being overly positive and nice only makes it easier for people to walk all over you. Sometimes you need to get angry and start yelling to get shit done.
We tried being nice and Blizz has not done anything to help fix obvious issues with their game. This is the angry overentitled style that hes referring to I would imagine. Why not people just stop pretending they have any idea how to develop a game with the complexity and scale of a game like Starcraft? The PROS should have input, yes, but other then that, I doubt any change good or bad has been made just because a random average joe had some sort of input. Then did you read pros opinions on HOTS ? What did they say again ? Pros say the game is bad. But my point (which you clearly missed) was that I gurantee professional players have better insight then the average player, even if they are in masters.
Given that pro's may have different opinions of the game at a competitive level does not mean their opinions are more valuable. The casual scene is what fuels the competitive scene and in turn their opinions are just as valuable.
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thanks for the post Doa, we have to agree the internet has to calm down a bit and stop this whining BS.
it doesnt look like theyre gonna release HOTS tomorrow , i think it will be a fairly long (if not a really long) period of beta before it launches , they cant fuck with tournaments , organizations and prize money depending on his game.
theyre listening to the community like never before!! give them the time , the mechrauder Warhound was removed , the Oracle its being told to be reworked , let them focus , one thing at a time , I for one actually LOVE that theyre taking his time and adressing issues one by one and they start from the most obvious ones , the lesser ones will come one at a time.
Patience.
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Good blog I hope more people listen
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On October 22 2012 02:33 Greenhit wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 01:57 Glurkenspurk wrote:
Being overly positive and nice only makes it easier for people to walk all over you. Sometimes you need to get angry and start yelling to get shit done.
We tried being nice and Blizz has not done anything to help fix obvious issues with their game. This is the angry overentitled style that hes referring to I would imagine. Why not people just stop pretending they have any idea how to develop a game with the complexity and scale of a game like Starcraft? The PROS should have input, yes, but other then that, I doubt any change good or bad has been made just because a random average joe had some sort of input.
Your point is all well and good when it comes to balance, but any bronze player can see that Battle.net 2.0 is lacking basic interface features that are only now being added in with HotS. And lack of LAN is still hurting tournaments all over the world.
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On October 22 2012 04:29 Grumbels wrote:
If Dustin Browder's feelings get hurt from reading TL and that's why he won't listen to community feedback, then he should quit his job.
This whole thing about community feedback and 'telling Blizzard our feelings' thing is so ridiculous, as if Blizzard can't just read the TL forums on their own.
And you just assume he doesn't read this forum because his feelings get hurt?
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DoA, you hit it right on the nose. If we aren't careful as a community, we will poison ourselves with all of this negativity. This Stacraft community we've builot over the last 10+ years is incredible and capable of amazing things. It needs to start acting like it again.
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Katowice25012 Posts
This is really insightful on a deep level not only about StarCraft but how to approach problems in general, great post DoA. I hope some can take it to heart, this isn't about "being nice to Blizzard" as much as it is simply having the right perspective in being the catalyst for change. I stayed on TL over other websites for years because it was the only place that had an atmosphere that revolved around how much they loved what they did, as opposed to simply hating everything else and I hope we can keep that positive attitude going into the future.
It really makes a difference.
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United Kingdom14464 Posts
I can't be the only one who did a double take and read it as "dota says".
Also, totally agree, its not that we shouldn't discuss flaws, but we can't as a community drown in negativity. That will kill SC2, more than anything else.
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Thank you DoA for the post... agree wholeheartedly...
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ITs great to see how many people care about starcraft 2. Ppl are so eager and passionate to see a better game, they might get caught up in angry rants or discussions. But perhaps that is also what is nessecary to wake blizzard up (if they werent already). The downside of all this negativity around HoTs is that it kills the hype. Some part of the community is almost dreading HoTs instead of welcoming it...There is no sense of occaision (`like when sc2 first came out, I remember being glued to Day9's stream waiting for the beta to be released at midnight etc.)
The upside is, well that we can all be surprised when HoTs comes out. What if blizz actually delivers a game that is still balanced, has a better UI, and includes some of the things the community has wanted for almost 2 yrs now (stats, unranked ladder games etc.) What if things arent exaclt ylike the past? Perhaps blizz needs HoTs and the Void expansion to improve the game as much as BW did for Sc1. I for one, am willing to give them a chance to redeem themselves.
Keep the discussions rolling!
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On October 22 2012 02:21 Boonbag wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2012 02:06 m3rciless wrote:
I just want the pillars to come back.
Where is chill? Where is the old school, who know what this website was meant to be? Why are the forums filled with these garbage threads? Starcraft is so much bigger than it ever was, why are we all so unhappy. because it's boring to watch and repetitive
Oh sorry, are you talking about basically every sport ever?
edit: to clarify, what I meant to imply is that there's only really so much variance that can occur in a game.
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EPT
