I apologize in advance for how lengthy this blog is, i hope my writing style won't bore you to death half way through. If it did, you can make a personal claim and you get your money back.
Since i currently have a lot of time to think, i also thought about new projects that i could work on. After a few nights of thinking, i had a game development idea that could potentially be extremely successful - i'm talking "League of Legends"-like successful. From little to millions.
However, after going through all the steps neccessary to complete it, i calculated that i would need about 10 years to finish it by myself, so i discarded it at first. Now, it's not letting me sleep because i can't stop thinking about "That is a great idea, but how could i make it work?".
The idea is not too complex, everything has been done in the industry before - except, all the ideas are spread out in different games.
A little back story: The first MMO i really played for a long time was Guild Wars - not Guild Wars 2, i mean the good Guild Wars - which was a game that had one feature that really distinguished it from basically all other MMOs: It actually had great PvP.
After half a year of PvE, i first started playing GvGs with my guild. I will explain this "GvG"-thing later if anyone doesn't know what it is. For now, it will be enough to say "It's 8 vs 8 on a big map and if you kill the enemy Guild Lord that sits in a base, you win" - it's an extremely fun mode requiring good teamplay, communication and strategy. I hade a huge blast playing it and so i barely played other games for a little over 4 years. Almost every evening my Guild logged in, we discussed our team setup and went into combat against other Guilds, trying to get to the top of the ladder.
This is where the problems started: If someone had reallife obligations and couldn't log in, suddenly we were only 7 players and had to search half an hour for a replacement who also had all the skills and such unlocked for the class we needed and then someone else had to go, so we needed another replacement. This led to some frustrating evenings where we couldn't start for an hour or two until we finally had the whole team ready to go... oh, wait, no, someone had to go again because his mother was about to unplug the router...
These days i mostly play League of Legends because laddering in Starcraft 2 was too much stress for me after work, that "Find match" button is just too scary. Playing LoL is simple: You log in, you click play, the system finds you teammates that are probably around your skill level (well, we all know they are worse since we are all in ELO hell, but, well, let's not talk about that) and then you play other players and get stomp... uhm, defeat them in honorable combat. No "we need to find a healer, anyone got one on his friendlist?", no "sorry, dinner is ready, i have to go", ... log in, play, done.
A few days ago, i had a dream! Yes, literally. If we take Guild Wars 1 game mechanics and combine it with a LoL like matchmaking, it could create a very fun and very competitive game. The best of both worlds without the bad parts.
Let's talk about Guild Wars 1 GvGs for a while. This will be rather lengthy but it's cruicial to understand the idea: + Show Spoiler +
GvG is short for Guild vs Guild, basically "ranked team vs ranked team". 8 vs 8. Each Guild could chose their home map and you always played on the map of the lower ranked team. The maps weren't completely symmetric but close enough to be balanced. Every map had 2 ways to get into the opponents base though on certain maps there were different mechanics required to get into a base, for example on "Druid's Isle" you had to get a seed to a certain spot and then a bridge would grow from it.
In the base itself, there were a few guards that were easy enough to defeat so that you could theoretically clear a base on your own but also strong enough that it took enough time that defenders might notice you and send someone to kill you.
Unlike League of Legends, there are no minion waves that spawn anywhere, you get the initial base defenders and that's it. If one of them dies, he stays dead so you had to watch out for sneaky guys murdering everyone in your base while you were busy on the other side of the map.
This brings me to "Why doesn't everyone just stay in the base then?". Each map has a flag stand in the center and in each base, there is a point where your flag spawns. This is similar to capture the flag in games like Quake, except... well, you capture your own flag and bring it to the center, so... yeah, not actually that similar.
So, what's so great about having your flag on the central flag stand you ask? That is a game mechanic that is a little more complex. If you manage to have your flag on the flag stand for 2 minutes without the enemy being able to place his own flag, you got a morale boost. Yeah, in reallife, too, but it's mostly a game mechanic. Let's go a little more in-depth:
Morale in Guild Wars is a modifier for your health, if you die, you lose 15 morale which reduces your health by 15%. If you die again, it increases to 30%, then 45% and then 60%. Once it reaches 60%, you no longer respawn. Killing opponents reduces the penalty for every player of the team by 2%, so for every death in your team, you would have to wipe every enemy player to make up for it. That doesn't happen (often). This is why the flag is so important, if you hold it long enough, not only does it remove a big chunk of the penalty, it can also increase your health to up to 10% more than normal. The team that had the flag stand could afford to trade kills, the team that didn't... well, they got easier and easier to kill.
The morale boost also recharged all skills instantly, which for the most part wasn't a big deal because with very few exceptions, all skills had less than 30s cooldown anyways. It was however a big deal for one core skill that almost every player brought into the battle: The signet of ressurrection which was a single-use skill that could revive a teammate quickly. The only way to reuse it was to get a morale boost from the flag, otherwise it would stay unavailable after the first use.
Once a team pushed it's way through to the enemy guild lord and killed him, either by being sneaky and taking the backdoor in with a part of their team or by brute-forcing their way through the front door, the game was over.
What made the game so special was the design of the classes and the resulting teamplay. A damage dealer couldn't do damage as long as the enemy protector (protection monk) as alive to protect his target before he could make his first blow, so you needed the midline classes like Mesmer or Necromancer to remove or deny those enchantments or stack up debuffs that allowed your damage dealer to still do his job. And then the healer just fixed his target up again with a spell or two.
To actually break through and kill opponents, you had to put on pressure through constant target switching, applying conditions, draining their energy with spells, etc. that made the enemy healers and protectors run dry so they could no longer do their job efficiently. At that point the opposing team collapsed and you could get a series of kills that reduced the victims morale and made them easier to kill in the future.
Alternatively, you could force the opponent into situations that he was not prepared for. Examples for that are Spikes - which means everyone attacks a target at the same time in the hope to kill it before the enemy protector or healer could react - and split pushes - which means 1-3 players of your team split of from the main team and go into the enemy base through the backdoor, forcing the opponent to split his team, too, which his team composition might not be suited for.
The mechanics of the game were quite easy to grasp but mastering it was very hard. Basically, it was 20-30 minutes of constant action. No boring laning phase, no gold counter, no items to buy ingame, just pure combat. + Show Spoiler +
Until the Nightfall expansion came out and messed everything up.
Now to my idea with a little more detail: We take all those mechanics, the classes, the morale, the flag system, and combine it with a system where you don't have to search 2 hours for that last guy. You log in, it finds players of equal skill, you get 30 seconds to discuss your team composition, the highest ELO player on the weaker team can select the map, you then select your team setup in order of your ELO (blind pick), you pick your skills and item slots and then you just fight. For competitive play there can of course be ranked team vs ranked team battles but for the casuals, you don't have to worry about much. You also don't have to unlock champions and such, you have all classes and a core set of skills available from the start and you can unlock more skills by playing. All free-to-play.
How would this earn money without champions you could buy? Well, thats quite simple. How does Team Fortress 2 earn money? They sell stuff that makes you look cool... and hats. Players will pay more to look more awesome, which is where the money can come from. Guild Wars 1 had lots of different sets of armors that were all the same but some looked better than others and the fancier ones were quite hard to get so of course everyone wanted those. With my idea, you could get everything for free, but if you would want it to look cool, too, you would have to pay. Then of course there are the small boosts, like 50% faster experience gain to unlock new skills, etc.
Sounds awesome, doesn't it?
Now for the problems: I have no clue of 3D programming. I can do everything else but i don't have any idea of how to make it all look fancy. I could probably program that thing in 2D in a few month but who wants to play that in 2D? I could also teach myself the 3D stuff, but that would take about a year longer and still look ugly as hell. Since i also don't have any friends, i don't have anyone who could do the 3D stuff while i do the rest. That would take too long anyways, 2 people can't finish that project
I calculated a development time of about a year with 4-5 good programmers and 1-2 3D artists. Together with marketing stuff, starting a tournament to promote the game, hiring TotalBiscuit to cast it, etc. i calculated a cost of about 500k Euro for the 1 year development time. I thought about kickstarter, but "hiring people" is not exactly a good first deliverable.
I know if i had the people, i have the organizational skills to make it work. I know how to motivate people, i know how to develop projects and how to avoid feature creep. I know how to plan ahead and divide a project into manageable steps. I already have a 50 step roadmap with all the deliverables step by step with a "who does what?" for the development, i just lack the contacts. That is driving me mad!!
I would definitely participate in a project like this if I had the time ( studying for college ). How many hours do you need per programmer per week for a 1 year development time and how "good" a programmer has to be?
I would guess about 45-50 hours upwards per person per week and the programmers would have to have experience in work in a project environment(Communication, Development processes, Testing etc.). It's quite an ambitious task but can be done. The estimated costs might be a bit on the low end of the spectrum if you want people with experience. I might write a bit more after lunch.
On October 16 2012 18:09 CoughingHydra wrote: I would definitely participate in a project like this if I had the time ( studying for college ). How many hours do you need per programmer per week for a 1 year development time and how "good" a programmer has to be?
It's not really a project someone can do in his spare time. I calculated with 8h days and at least one programmer that has serious game development experience for the 3D stuff. Everything else can be done by junior programmers, networking is mostly trivial though time consuming (i have the full concept mapped out already), the team selection module can be made seperate from the game client itself (similar to LoL, just not in Adobe Air) so it's not too complex either and once the engine is working and people can move around on different maps and throw simple fireballs at each other, the remaining stuff is mostly scripting-like and doesn't require too much in-depth know-how. The engine itself is the cruicial part, which is why it requires someone with a lot of experience in that field, something i sadly don't possess.
I calculate with about 1 million in total costs but once the prototype stands, it should be possible to get additional funding (kickstarter, investors, publishers,...), but even getting a working and playable prototype requires a lot of time.
If you really want to do this, quit dreaming about people working 40-50h per week for you and make a quick 2D prototype first and see how the gameplay turns out. You don't need anything fancy to prove that your gameplay idea works out (which it may not). Or alternatively grab something like Unity and do a prototype using floating spheres as players. It's quite easy to get into and does not require any in-depth 3D knowledge.
I think you might be underestimating the costs. I would tend to be more conservative than you. 4-5 good programmers and 1-2 3D artists, that is 7 employees. 500k euror means max salary of 71k Euro.... Not sure how good of talent you can get for that pay, but good programmers where I am from will be a little more pricey. Especially for just a 1 year contract.
Then on top of salary, you would pay for benefits, office space, hardware, software, small business license, lawyers fees for copy right, trademark etc.
I think, if you are serious, you should do a little research on what exactly line by line your costs will be for 1 year. You should have a sheet where you can break it out line by line, just like a business.
I know someone who studies, like, graphical design, and he's doing animations and such. I think if you want to find 3D programmers you could search for universities that have programs that would involve such things and send them an e-mail offering this as like a bachelor project. I don't know if it would work, but oh well. And then you'd have a timeframe of a semester to write a mock-up together.
What kind of experience do you have that makes you think you can do something like this?
So far all you have told us you have go on is the idea of a matchmaking system and the fact that you enjoyed Guild Wars. Are you like one of those ace freelance programmers who shits innovation or do you have like 6 years of game design experience or something that you aren't explaining? You say you have no friends but you feel qualified to guide a team of 7 people over a yearlong development cycle of a completely untested and brand new game? Do you have any sort of financial backing or experience dealing with financial backing and assuring that those 7 other people don't get fucked? Are you actually planning on just copying GW? Do you have any appreciation of how difficult it is to not only actually make a game, but make a good one? If so I would love to see your other game projects.
I mean no offense here, maybe you just did a poor job of explaining this pitch (although thats not exactly a good sign either). But right now this reminds me of all those "I wanna be a progamer" blogs by some unknown kid who decides to drop out of college and start a gaming house with his buddies and make Code S within a year.
As a potential investor or contributor, what would attract me to this project? Everyone wants to make a fun ARPG with great matchmaking, this isn't some new breakthrough idea. What would make me decide to pay you to helm my project as opposed to any of the countless castoffs from huge gaming companies who actually directed aspects of hit games (Or just poaching a currently employed one)? Sadly the game industry is full of amazing talented (and experienced) people, and even they fail probably 80% of the time to produce something fun with staying power and functional monetization. And you aren't even just talking about a fun game. You mentioned tournaments with casters, so a competitive game or esport, which not only requires great gameplay, but huge complexity and depth, damn near perfect balance, and massive effort taken to be watchable by an outside audience. The number of even niche successful true competitive games in the last 5 years is probably under 30, and the amount that actually made money or attracted a viewership is a miniscule portion of that.
Basically this is a massively difficult project unless you plan on making a fun tech demo, and this post makes it seem like you don't really appreciate that.
What kind of experience do you have that makes you think you can do something like this?
So far all you have told us you have go on is the idea of a matchmaking system and the fact that you enjoyed Guild Wars. Are you like one of those ace freelance programmers who shits innovation or do you have like 6 years of game design experience or something that you aren't explaining? You say you have no friends but you feel qualified to guide a team of 7 people over a yearlong development cycle of a completely untested and brand new game? Do you have any sort of financial backing or experience dealing with financial backing and assuring that those 7 other people don't get fucked? Are you actually planning on just copying GW? Do you have any appreciation of how difficult it is to not only actually make a game, but make a good one? If so I would love to see your other game projects.
I mean no offense here, maybe you just did a poor job of explaining this pitch (although thats not exactly a good sign either). But right now this reminds me of all those "I wanna be a progamer" blogs by some unknown kid who decides to drop out of college and start a gaming house with his buddies and make Code S within a year.
As a potential investor or contributor, what would attract me to this project? Everyone wants to make a fun ARPG with great matchmaking, this isn't some new breakthrough idea. What would make me decide to pay you to helm my project as opposed to any of the countless castoffs from huge gaming companies who actually directed aspects of hit games (Or just poaching a currently employed one)? Sadly the game industry is full of amazing talented (and experienced) people, and even they fail probably 80% of the time to produce something fun with staying power and functional monetization. And you aren't even just talking about a fun game. You mentioned tournaments with casters, so a competitive game or esport, which not only requires great gameplay, but huge complexity and depth, damn near perfect balance, and massive effort taken to be watchable by an outside audience. The number of even niche successful true competitive games in the last 5 years is probably under 30, and the amount that actually made money or attracted a viewership is a miniscule portion of that.
Basically this is a massively difficult project unless you plan on making a fun tech demo, and this post makes it seem like you don't really appreciate that.
Listen to this man, imo. What he says rings of truth.
What kind of experience do you have that makes you think you can do something like this?
So far all you have told us you have go on is the idea of a matchmaking system and the fact that you enjoyed Guild Wars. Are you like one of those ace freelance programmers who shits innovation or do you have like 6 years of game design experience or something that you aren't explaining? You say you have no friends but you feel qualified to guide a team of 7 people over a yearlong development cycle of a completely untested and brand new game? Do you have any sort of financial backing or experience dealing with financial backing and assuring that those 7 other people don't get fucked? Are you actually planning on just copying GW? Do you have any appreciation of how difficult it is to not only actually make a game, but make a good one? If so I would love to see your other game projects.
I mean no offense here, maybe you just did a poor job of explaining this pitch (although thats not exactly a good sign either). But right now this reminds me of all those "I wanna be a progamer" blogs by some unknown kid who decides to drop out of college and start a gaming house with his buddies and make Code S within a year.
As a potential investor or contributor, what would attract me to this project? Everyone wants to make a fun ARPG with great matchmaking, this isn't some new breakthrough idea. What would make me decide to pay you to helm my project as opposed to any of the countless castoffs from huge gaming companies who actually directed aspects of hit games (Or just poaching a currently employed one)? Sadly the game industry is full of amazing talented (and experienced) people, and even they fail probably 80% of the time to produce something fun with staying power and functional monetization. And you aren't even just talking about a fun game. You mentioned tournaments with casters, so a competitive game or esport, which not only requires great gameplay, but huge complexity and depth, damn near perfect balance, and massive effort taken to be watchable by an outside audience. The number of even niche successful true competitive games in the last 5 years is probably under 30, and the amount that actually made money or attracted a viewership is a miniscule portion of that.
Basically this is a massively difficult project unless you plan on making a fun tech demo, and this post makes it seem like you don't really appreciate that.
So much negativity... The post was an idea that i already discarded as "not possible for me".
Yes, i am not a game developer. Writing games is a hobby of mine since 22 years when i wrote my first game on a C64 when i was 8 but i always preferred the "behind the scenes"-stuff, which is why i have only dabbled in 3D programming. I can spend hours writing networking code, creating a program architecture and all the code that actually does stuff but writing the actual user interface where people can actually see anything my program does is not what i'm good at and what i always avoided.
I led several projects - though not always in name - in my professional career, for which i had 1-4 people that reported to me. Those projects always were on schedule and worked better than those in other departments because i focussed on what i do best: solving problems, i.e. removing obstacles that were preventing the other employees from doing their job properly and keeping all the annoying stuff away from them. I know how to lead a team of developers and how to provide them with all the resources they need.
Like basically anyone creating a start-up, i don't have experience leading a company though. However, almost every single person in my family has his own company and i also do have contact to experienced managers, so while i definitely would run into some problems, i also know where to find solutions. A start-up is always a risk, both for the manager and the employees. I worked almost two years for a start-up that couldn't even pay me every second month, i've been there and i've seen the mistakes that many new start-ups make and know how to avoid a lot of them.
I definitely know the effort involved in developing such a game, as i said, i already created a roadmap where i have every single step in the development process, from the first "Move static object around on a simple plane with mouse and keyboard" to "Find and hire a freelancer for a soundtrack". The execution (i.e. bugs) of course would always depend on the programmers involved, though a lot of problems can be avoided by knowing all the things you want to have at the end without letting any features creep in that you didn't plan for in the early stages. This feature creep is what kills most projects but since i already have all the features defined and know how to say "no", that wouldn't have been a problem. The only thing that is not completely defined are classes and skills, which would most likely change a lot during alpha/beta/release.
The idea is not new, it's a simple hotkey based 8vs8 team deathmatch with an added objective. It is no revolution. It also doesn't exist yet eventhough with the current boom of competitive games, it is the perfect time for such a game.
It is a big project, yes. I know that. I also know that the budget and time i defined is comparatively small. I also know that it would have been possible. Maybe not for me, i'm not exactly an investors best friend, but for someone with the right contacts, it could be possible and i'm quite sure that the current market would allow such a project to actually succeed.
Use something like Unity http://unity3d.com/ if you don't want to deal with 3d programming. There are also several other development suites out there that will wrap up the UI stuff with varying levels of complexity and detail. You can make your game as a demo with basic 3d models or free open source models you find and who knows, if it's as fantastic as you think it will be perhaps you can get real funding.
Another possibility, though not a great one for actual end product is to use Starcraft 2 as an "engine" and make a demo map using the Starcraft 2 tools. Obviously it's not ideal but it could be a good start just to quickly hammer out some ideas and you have a bunch of models, ai, scripting built in already that you can toy with.
There are already games being made on this concept (MMO PvP but with machmaking and no actual PvE component), the first one which comes to mind is FORGE, which TB made a WTF Is... video about a while ago:
EPT![[image loading]](http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/d/d6/Druid%27s_Isle_map.jpg)
