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Hi all,
To put it plain and simple, I hate it when Korean Players win MLG's and DreakHacks and whatnot. You sort of always gonna know that its gonna be DRG, MMA, MVP, MKP, Taeja whose going to win and not players like Huk, IdrA, White-Ra, MaNa. Gone are the days when Foreigners could stand up to Koreans.
Is it the players fault that they can't keep up with Korean gamers rate of improvement? Maybe. But for me it sort of ruins it.
Maybe I'm old fashioned. But I think there should be a tournament exclusive for Foriegners so we can see our countries participate in a competition where they're automatically not going to lose (It would make me so happy to see MoonGlade or PiG to win something big).
But I think there's more to it than this. If players aren't winning big titles, they're forced to sell themselves out in order to bring their teams money + Show Spoiler + and its not right. These are highly skilled professional gamers, pouring their blood, sweat and tears into this game and to keep food in their stomachs and their bosses happy they're forced to advertise and rely on sponsors when they'd rather be independent.
Let me know what you guys think on this matter.
Cheers
 
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Obviously they're not "highly skilled" enough, otherwise they wouldn't have to advertise or rely on sponsors. I would argue they are "moderately" or "adeuqate" or "mediocre" skilled uniformly across the board with few exceptions. Such adjectives would bring a fairer tho dimmer shade of light to your description.
Last time I checked, the Olympics were more popular than the Paralympics. eSports has a limited audience in itself; we can't have a tournament that is handicapped watching sub-par play; it'll bring in a poor audience. Such a tournament exists btw, it's called WCG. It happens once a year. You can watch the American representative match it out against a pretty bad player from Saudi Arabia or something on SC2 in a "moderately" or "adeuqate" or "mediocre" fashion.
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Last time I checked foreigners had no problem taking home the odd tournament.
But hey, I'm sure all the 4 people who put nationality above skill will agreee with you!
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Its not the sub-par skill that concerns me. Australian people want to see Australian players doing decently in a Foreign event. Its a sense of patriotism.
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On October 12 2012 15:31 iKill wrote:
Last time I checked foreigners had no problem taking home the odd tournament.
But hey, I'm sure all the 4 people who put nationality above skill will agreee with you!
I'm not looking for people to agree with me. I'm sharing my opinions, its a blog
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On October 12 2012 15:35 TheKwas wrote:
Grow up.
Don't like it, don't read it.
Btw thanks for bump
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He has some merit to what he's saying. He's saying with Koreans winning all the tournaments, the scene is becoming a bit stale and dry with predictability. While some Koreans and their teams have a lifestyle supporting their progaming careers, prominent teams often struggle with motivation while balancing both a competent practice schedule as well as keep a head straight despite no recognition, opportunity for a better team or achievements to show.
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Increases the legitimacy of the competition by raising the bar so it forces players to up their standards to try and catch up.
If you guys were to send some of your NRL guys to play in foreign rugby leagues I'm sure the experience and competition would be appreciated. Sure it might be a one-sided beatdown, but learning from the best is well, the best way to get better I guess?
edit: Personally I would like to see Moonglade play WoW again. Good times lol :p (slightly offtopic)
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You're not the only way that thinks that way. TL just doesn't care because TL prefers the elite (TL is ELITIST? FOR SHAME!), and simply put, foreigners aren't elite. Koreans are. Too bad. If you have the money, you can fund a foreigners only tournament.
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I like seeing national / regional talents playing each other. It's pretty interesting, even it isn't the highest level of competition. So I'd agree with you... except that we just had WCS a few months ago, which is exactly what you are asking for. Now, if you want to say that there should be more such tournaments, then that's a different matter.
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You can't expect esports to run on a different mentality to real sports. How many people who play soccer or afl or rugby who pour their hearts out just to be told "sorry mate this guy is better were taking him instead"
Does it suck that this is worldwide? yea sure, but you cant change that. In the end it all comes down to which players can perform the best, and to get that you need to put in the time and hours.
I've given the opportunity to a number Australians including moonglade tgun and to lesser extent pinder (had family stuff) and pig (Pig was even scheduled to stay in the FXO house but then he had to change the time he would be in Korea so I couldn't keep a spot for him that long, thankfully he found a place at prime), but is it wrong for them to not want to move to Korea fulltime and leave their families or a higher paying job in their own sector? No its not. but you can't have your cake and eat it too.
There is WCS which is exactly what you are asking for, unfortunately outside of blizzard there is no viable way for companies to really get into a region specific event because the amount of money spent on WCS just isn't viable for stand alone companies.
Esports viewers are extremely small in the grand scheme of things because it is a global audience. people talk all the time of how many people we are getting compared to something but in reality your comparing a global event to something thats not. If you want more region specific events there needs to be more region specific viewers as well,
How many times do you hear the whole "SEA players are shit" mentality, even if it may or may not be true, because no sea player has placed well in any event since moonglade took 4th over a year ago( unless you count targa) is not the fault of the viewers or the companies looking to sponsor people its just how the world works.
So again we come full circle to my sport analogy, you may love that afl/soccer/rugby player from your school rep team, but in reality if he doesnt make the cut he will never make it to go pro.
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So in other words, you just want to see Stephano win everything??
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How is it a "big victory" when you don't even have the best players against you? I agree that too many Koreans at a foreign event can be bad-ish but then again, if it wasn't the case, i wouldn't even watch the whole thing. I don't care about the flag they are upholding, i just want the best games and the best players.
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Hidden racism at its best. You want to see non-Koreans win because they're too good? Instead of trying to restrict players based on their race, why don't you cheer on the foreigners working hard to win? Thats like saying Koreans should ban all European players from Korean soccer league because they're too good and its the K league....
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In my eyes, Starcraft has always been a game about skill, regardless of nationality. When BoxeR won an OSL, or when Grrrr won an OSL, I was glad because the most skilled player competed and kicked butt. I understand wanting foreigners to be represented and not being shut-out of tournaments, but if we truly value the skill-based assets of the game, the part of the game that doesn't care about who you are or where you're from, then I think we need to have everyone compete. Especially Koreans.
I can understand your viewpoint, and I certainly don't want a stagnation of the scene, and don't want players to have to go through extreme measures just to get sponsorship. But the spirit of competition demands that players keep up to whoever is on top, here Koreans. For me, it's solace enough to know that tournaments like WCS exist, and offer foreigners their own grounds to compete, while still giving opportunity for Korean players to show their stuff. It may just be we don't have enough tournaments offering the same.
This in mind, your post has given me a lot to think about (I've spent a few minutes just thinking after typing) it is an interesting, and volatile, state of affairs. This deserves a bit more thought on my part I believe, but currently I still stand that Koreans should still be well represented should they remain the best at the game, but foreigners do deserve a bit more spotlight than they get today.
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To put it plain and simple, I hate it when Korean Players win MLG's and DreakHacks and whatnot. You sort of always gonna know that its gonna be DRG, MMA, MVP, MKP, Taeja whose going to win and not players like Huk, IdrA, White-Ra, MaNa. Gone are the days when Foreigners could stand up to Koreans.
False. Stephano and Nerchio have winning records against Koreans. The rest of the top foreigners gravitate around the mid-30 to low 40 percent winrate.
Maybe I'm old fashioned. But I think there should be a tournament exclusive for Foriegners so we can see our countries participate in a competition where they're automatically not going to lose (It would make me so happy to see MoonGlade or PiG to win something big).
WCS just happened. There's also dozens of online tournaments every week featuring only foreigners. SEA players not winning anything big has nothing to do with Koreans as they wouldn't win any tournaments involving top Europeans either. Perhaps you ought to be complaining about the lack of big SEA only tournaments?
But I think there's more to it than this. If players aren't winning big titles, they're forced to sell themselves out in order to bring their teams money + Show Spoiler + and its not right. These are highly skilled professional gamers, pouring their blood, sweat and tears into this game and to keep food in their stomachs and their bosses happy they're forced to advertise and rely on sponsors when they'd rather be independent.
You do realize that what makes a tournament 'big' is foreigners beating good Koreans right? Koreans are the standard by which all SC2 players are measured to and nobody can be legitimately called elite until they have beaten good Koreans at the most prestigious tournaments consistently. It's funny you should mention EG because the very reason their top 4 foreigners Stephano, Huk, Thorzain and Idra are so marketable and carry so much name value is their success against Koreans. Before beating Koreans Stephano was just a ladder hero, Huk another North American who is only good compared to how bad the NA server is, Thorzain a nobody and Idra a whining nerd-rager. Essentially what you are saying is that you want foreigners to have all the fame, money and glory of being a top player without actually having to be a top player.
I would also like to inform you that e-sports money does not magically appear from nowhere. Progaming is not like pro sports where you can sell tickets for $100 a head and TV rights for millions of dollars. All progamers regardless of nationality or choice of video game depend on sponsors. Go read any one of the translated Korean interviews. You will notice the Korean is wearing a shirt dotted with sponsor logos and the interview will always end with the Korean thanking his team's sponsors. Is this what you call "independence?"
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And when Stephano, Nerchio, Lucifron starts winning everything, will you have US Only tournaments? What if Cali players are winning everything? Will you have East Coast only tournaments?
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Personally, I almost only watch gsl because I'm pretty much only interested in the best of the best. But I do get your sentiment. Just take football (soccer) for example. There are several classes in which teams compete, so even a lesser te has opportunity to shine in their respective league. If your the kind of viewer who has his own favorites that might not be the of the highest level I see how it can be frustrating. However, I also feel that excluding Koreans from tournament just so that the foreigners can have fun is a bit silly. I'd rather see some global league system implemented (like a global code s, a, and b. This way maybe guys like Kinglake could be the champs of their respective leagues.
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On October 12 2012 15:42 ghrur wrote:
You're not the only way that thinks that way. TL just doesn't care because TL prefers the elite (TL is ELITIST? FOR SHAME!), and simply put, foreigners aren't elite. Koreans are. Too bad. If you have the money, you can fund a foreigners only tournament.
Like TL did with TSL 1,2 :D
Sorry, had to 
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EPT
