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On October 12 2012 17:22 vthree wrote:
And when Stephano, Nerchio, Lucifron starts winning everything, will you have US Only tournaments? What if Cali players are winning everything? Will you have East Coast only tournaments?
It's acceptable to have region-specific competitions imo, since the scene and growth of players is different in each one. Of course, nobody will take them as seriously as global ones.
OP: watch some SEA tourneys or something.
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It would make me so happy to see MoonGlade or PiG to win something big
Well, you're Australian... so either hope that they practice as much as the best players, or be happy for tournaments like WCS Oceania.
There are occasional tournaments that feature one country only, but only having mediocre players means we're not going see the highest level of play... and once you've seen Koreans play, you pretty much know what subpar performance looks like (even from Koreans).
I'd rather have our foreigners rise to the level of Koreans than have most tournaments exclude the best players to help the weak. It's just like any other job- do what it takes to move up towards the top (unless you're fine with where you are now), or get weeded out.
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On October 12 2012 15:41 Torte de Lini wrote:
He has some merit to what he's saying. He's saying with Koreans winning all the tournaments, the scene is becoming a bit stale and dry with predictability. While some Koreans and their teams have a lifestyle supporting their progaming careers, prominent teams often struggle with motivation while balancing both a competent practice schedule as well as keep a head straight despite no recognition, opportunity for a better team or achievements to show.
I sort of agree. Whats the incentive for players outside Korea to try and develop a career when all the prize money is going to the same talent?
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This is racist. They do not win tournaments because they are korean. They win tournaments because they are the best players. I do not watch pro level games to see what the second highest tier of players does. That is what S-Class and A-class divisions are for. To showcase talent that is near the top but not quite at the top.
Sure, maybe even make a lower tier for players to compete in but don't disclude a fucking nationality. Especially considering that is the country that paved the way for competitive RTS when there was no following. Hey why don't we shit on them because they are too good? Oh ya, we dont' do that because we want to see good players winning instead of people we like winning.
If you want to see people you like win, make a gold league tournament with your buddies in it and give him some money.
I'll be watching the best of the best while you do that.
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WCS EU was one of the highest and most watched SC2 events last month and not a single Korean was playing. It was a field filled with players that speak our language and have stories to follow, brothers, rivals, players we know and talk to and that post on TL. People we can relate to and root for. Faces we are eager to see and hear speak.
All of this are things that a usual MLG or Dreamhack are always missing because Koreans we don't really know always win. Not saying the best players shouldn't be denied but there is an entire element of foreign Starcraft that can appeal to the viewer on a more emotional and deeper level.
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On October 12 2012 15:35 TheKwas wrote:
Grow up.
^This
You can't just ban Usain Bolt from the Olympics because you don't think anyone is faster then him. If the non-Koreans were good enough to take these tournaments then they would.
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On October 12 2012 23:21 shark. wrote:^This You can't just ban Usain Bolt from the Olympics because you don't think anyone is faster then him. If the non-Koreans were good enough to take these tournaments then they would.
The sprinting was a little boring to watch because it was so obvious that the Jamaicans would win. Call me old fashioned but i'd rather see less dark skinned people in the sprinting. you know?
LuckyFool actually makes a point that I don't find offensive. Personality is harder to get fromt the Korean players because they do not speak english and such. Still I don't find this that compelling. Players like Sea[shield] are eager to interact with non-korean fans. Violet when he was alive was posting on TL RIP <3. Why don't we learn korean if we want to interact with players so much? Take some responsibility.
Also, I love Forgg. He was telling idra to "shut up" on stream.. and I realize, hey i look up to this guy even though he doesn't speak english.
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On October 12 2012 22:54 meteorskunk wrote:
This is racist. They do not win tournaments because they are korean. They win tournaments because they are the best players. I do not watch pro level games to see what the second highest tier of players does. That is what S-Class and A-class divisions are for. To showcase talent that is near the top but not quite at the top.
Sure, maybe even make a lower tier for players to compete in but don't disclude a fucking nationality. Especially considering that is the country that paved the way for competitive RTS when there was no following. Hey why don't we shit on them because they are too good? Oh ya, we dont' do that because we want to see good players winning instead of people we like winning.
If you want to see people you like win, make a gold league tournament with your buddies in it and give him some money.
I'll be watching the best of the best while you do that.
This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the scene in Korea being the driving force behind creating players of an entirely different caliber.
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On October 13 2012 00:01 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 22:54 meteorskunk wrote:
This is racist. They do not win tournaments because they are korean. They win tournaments because they are the best players. I do not watch pro level games to see what the second highest tier of players does. That is what S-Class and A-class divisions are for. To showcase talent that is near the top but not quite at the top.
Sure, maybe even make a lower tier for players to compete in but don't disclude a fucking nationality. Especially considering that is the country that paved the way for competitive RTS when there was no following. Hey why don't we shit on them because they are too good? Oh ya, we dont' do that because we want to see good players winning instead of people we like winning.
If you want to see people you like win, make a gold league tournament with your buddies in it and give him some money.
I'll be watching the best of the best while you do that. This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the scene in Korea being the driving force behind creating players of an entirely different caliber.
IE an established scene that shares information with one another through emulation, an understanding of the work ethic needed to play at the highest level, and a widespread respect for RTS which results in a bigger talent pool. Nothing that powerful.
I dunno, I'm not one to say "they're better. Foreigners will never get there." I think foreigners need to be trying to reach that level. Is that so unrealistic? If they fail to make it to the highest level why do they deserve tournament prize money? How do you decide what is an unfair advantage based on your country of origin?
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Calgary25991 Posts
On October 12 2012 15:27 MrMcIntosh wrote:
Is it the players fault that they can't keep up with Korean gamers rate of improvement? Maybe.
What the fuck is this? Who else's fault could it possibly be? lol
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On October 13 2012 00:12 meteorskunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 00:01 Dfgj wrote:On October 12 2012 22:54 meteorskunk wrote:
This is racist. They do not win tournaments because they are korean. They win tournaments because they are the best players. I do not watch pro level games to see what the second highest tier of players does. That is what S-Class and A-class divisions are for. To showcase talent that is near the top but not quite at the top.
Sure, maybe even make a lower tier for players to compete in but don't disclude a fucking nationality. Especially considering that is the country that paved the way for competitive RTS when there was no following. Hey why don't we shit on them because they are too good? Oh ya, we dont' do that because we want to see good players winning instead of people we like winning.
If you want to see people you like win, make a gold league tournament with your buddies in it and give him some money.
I'll be watching the best of the best while you do that. This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the scene in Korea being the driving force behind creating players of an entirely different caliber. IE an established scene that shares information with one another through emulation, an understanding of the work ethic needed to play at the highest level, and a widespread respect for RTS which results in a bigger talent pool. Nothing that powerful. I dunno, I'm not one to say "they're better. Foreigners will never get there." I think foreigners need to be trying to reach that level. Is that so unrealistic? If they fail to make it to the highest level why do they deserve tournament prize money? How do you decide what is an unfair advantage based on your country of origin?
Different scenes produce different caliber of competitors in absolutely everything, and scenes having local competitions at a lower level than inter-scene competitions is common in everything too. Nobody gets uppity at a country having a national competition for its own population - it has less prestige than an international one, but it isn't racist. If a sponsor of said tournament wants to award X dollars to the best competitor in that region, then that's up to them.
Whether or not foreigners (the word in itself implying a gulf between the korean and nonkorean scenes) need to reach the korean level is a different discussion entirely.
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On October 13 2012 00:17 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On October 13 2012 00:12 meteorskunk wrote:On October 13 2012 00:01 Dfgj wrote:On October 12 2012 22:54 meteorskunk wrote:
This is racist. They do not win tournaments because they are korean. They win tournaments because they are the best players. I do not watch pro level games to see what the second highest tier of players does. That is what S-Class and A-class divisions are for. To showcase talent that is near the top but not quite at the top.
Sure, maybe even make a lower tier for players to compete in but don't disclude a fucking nationality. Especially considering that is the country that paved the way for competitive RTS when there was no following. Hey why don't we shit on them because they are too good? Oh ya, we dont' do that because we want to see good players winning instead of people we like winning.
If you want to see people you like win, make a gold league tournament with your buddies in it and give him some money.
I'll be watching the best of the best while you do that. This has nothing to do with race, it has to do with the scene in Korea being the driving force behind creating players of an entirely different caliber. IE an established scene that shares information with one another through emulation, an understanding of the work ethic needed to play at the highest level, and a widespread respect for RTS which results in a bigger talent pool. Nothing that powerful. I dunno, I'm not one to say "they're better. Foreigners will never get there." I think foreigners need to be trying to reach that level. Is that so unrealistic? If they fail to make it to the highest level why do they deserve tournament prize money? How do you decide what is an unfair advantage based on your country of origin? Different scenes produce different caliber of competitors in absolutely everything, and scenes having local competitions at a lower level than inter-scene competitions is common in everything too. Nobody gets uppity at a country having a national competition for its own population - it has less prestige than an international one, but it isn't racist. If a sponsor of said tournament wants to award X dollars to the best competitor in that region, then that's up to them. Whether or not foreigners (the word in itself implying a gulf between the korean and nonkorean scenes) need to reach the korean level is a different discussion entirely.
Ok, that is a good point. It would be exciting to watch the non-koreans battle for good prize money. To see the different games that would happen. Fun idea. I know I loved watching the TSL that NonY won in BW. To be honest with you, I'm not an expert starcraft spectator.
Mainly, I was attacking the tone of the OP, which to me, sounded like a child whining about things not going his way and trying to fix it by complaining about things. Instead of accepting that his players are not the best, he wants players to not come to tournaments? Players who work equally hard? That would be ridiculous.
Honestly, as good as some of the comments in this thread are, the OP is just too crappy to have any intelligent discussion. Not to mention I haven't read the threads that happened whent the exclusion of Koreans was a hot topic on this forum.
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Hong Kong9165 Posts
Protectionism doesn't work in any economy, even the economy of player skill in competitive gaming.
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Maybe Foreigners should get better. That'd be a better blog than this. 
As an aside, most BW fans had no qualms about Koreans winning all the time, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people who switched to SC2 feel the same way about wanting their Korean idols from BW kick ass.
Is it just you? Maybe.
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On October 12 2012 22:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Well, you're Australian... so either hope that they practice as much as the best players, or be happy for tournaments like WCS Oceania. There are occasional tournaments that feature one country only, but only having mediocre players means we're not going see the highest level of play... and once you've seen Koreans play, you pretty much know what subpar performance looks like (even from Koreans). I'd rather have our foreigners rise to the level of Koreans than have most tournaments exclude the best players to help the weak. It's just like any other job- do what it takes to move up towards the top (unless you're fine with where you are now), or get weeded out.
Although I agree that all NA or EU events are not the answer, I would also prefer that MLG and other leagues not go out of their way to get Korean players to attend. Especially with the Kespa players, who’s teams are pushing preferential treatment(seeds out of the open bracket, whole tournaments centered around them). This kind is the kind of stuff the community would eviscerate EG. Players like Flash could make it through the open bracket, just like MKP, Crank and other Korean players. I understand why Kespa is pushing to have them seeded into the groups stage and their plan makes perfect sense. I just don’t care for it and would prefer a system that didn’t so closely revolve around the business deals between both leagues.
I think NASL has struck a good medium when it comes to this issue. They have active participation on most levels and all their players qualified or are carryovers from last season. They aren’t trying to court Kespa or Korean pro teams as far as I know. I would rather leagues it’s own story line, rivalries and struggles speak for themselves.
In the end I care more about who is playing, rather than if it is "the highest level play". WCS EU was great and I enjoyed every minute.
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On October 12 2012 15:32 MrMcIntosh wrote:
Its not the sub-par skill that concerns me. Australian people want to see Australian players doing decently in a Foreign event. Its a sense of patriotism.
Yeah, but they don't bitch about how other nations are doing too well in the Olympics. They bitch about how Australian athletes suck balls and can't get nearly as high of a medal count, even in swimming.
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On October 13 2012 00:16 Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2012 15:27 MrMcIntosh wrote:
Is it the players fault that they can't keep up with Korean gamers rate of improvement? Maybe. What the fuck is this? Who else's fault could it possibly be? lol
No such thing as a free lunch and Torte the only reason you can say it's predictable is because there aren't as many landmines outside of Korea and even then let's look at the qualification processes inside and outside of Korea.
Remember how everyone used to talk about how volatile certain match-ups were let alone the game? Yeah, well the guys who seem to be wrecking house seem to have the best tournament results at the same time with only a few discrepancies.
Most recent example of this is Life, but it's gone on throughout the beginning of the game.
There's a lot of consistency there even with all the international tournaments and bush league shit.
Who would of thunk it!
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On October 12 2012 15:27 MrMcIntosh wrote:
Is it the players fault that they can't keep up with Korean gamers rate of improvement? Maybe.
LOL
Anyway, the best part is that if say, China produced elite sc2 players that beat koreans in major tournaments, blogs like this (foreigners only!) would exist. Why? Well... take a guess
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On October 12 2012 15:32 MrMcIntosh wrote:
Its not the sub-par skill that concerns me. Australian people want to see Australian players doing decently in a Foreign event. Its a sense of patriotism.
So because your country blows in sc2 you want to bar the koreans from tournaments.... I just had a genius idea for my country to win the next olympics, you'll never guess what it is.
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EPT
