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I don't know if I am or have ever actually been clinically depressed, or if i just go through bouts of feeling sorry for myself. But either way, during these episodes, everything seems to lose its luster. I took a year off of college due to social and emotional problems. Until that moment, I hadn't considered myself as a "sheltered" child while growing up. But I wasn't prepared for college, in more ways than one. I was able to stick true to my values, as I'm straight-edge. I didn't drink, I didn't do drugs, I didn't smoke. Ironically, that made me more of an outcast than if I had done those things, but I digress.
I did go back to college, I did graduate. And now, I still wonder "what for?" I'm working a dead-end job, I live with my parents (who I love, don't get me wrong), and I just feel lonely. A lot. Every once in awhile, I get feeling really down. A lot more recently. And I hate it, because here I sit, in a warm, comfortable home, with wireless internet, a laptop, way too much food (I'm kinda fat ;_;) and I'm so ridiculously privileged and I'm still getting down on myself.
Motivation comes and it goes. Happiness comes and it goes. I basically feel the same way. I'll do something, achieve something, and be happy about it, then later think "what did it really get me, besides a moment of feeling good? Now everyone has already forgotten about it except for me..."
I don't know man. I'm now starting to get back into one of my "motivated" periods. I'm exercising, writing a lot of music, writing in general, even doing better at SC (still in gold, but w/e). But even now, I know that in a few weeks, hell, maybe in a few days, I might lose it again.
And that sucks. People might say "well, suck it up, stop being such a bitch," but it's actually pretty hard when you don't have a reason for your motivation. Maybe I'm just going in circles. I think I am.
Basically, I can relate. Maybe you'll read this, maybe you won't, but others will. And to everyone, I hope you can keep your motivation, and therefore, your life and happiness, out of the dumps.
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I wanted to make an account just to reply to NonY's initial post. I'm not great at writing concise paragraphs, but I'll do my best.
I've been battling depression for almost 9 years at this point. The only time that I ever admitted to somebody that I suffered from it was when I was recovering from a surgery earlier this year, in which while I was under the influence of a ton of pain killers and awakening from my anesthetic, I had an emotional breakdown in front of my mother and my surgeon about it (completely unrelated to the surgery I was having). The level of severity of my depression has plateaued at this point, but I can also say that it's worse than ever.
The one thing major thing that I believe I've learned from my experience with depression is how little we, as humans, are in control of what we think and our emotions and thoughts. You may respond with "Mind over matter, always", but that's not quite what I mean. What I mean is, is that no matter feelings you feel at any moment, your brain is still just like a computer, and there are still chemical reactions that affect your ability to control or change your feelings and thoughts at any point. I think of people who are able to push themselves really far mentally and physically, or who are great motivational speakers and will say something about how they live each day like it's their last, or how they might as well die if they don't push the limits. I strongly believe that this mindset is more of a result of their current mental state than an initiation to change their internal state. These type of positive mental states just can't be achieved with any psychology or inspiration, from my experience. Depression, as I think of it, is more than just an alteration of mental state, but rather an entire alteration of your brains programming, which makes me baffled as to how it begins (it started for me when I was going through puberty, so maybe it's genetic?).
I've tried anti-depressants, but they never worked. I've been taking ADHD medication for just over a year (since my diagnosis), and oddly enough, it greatly improves my motivation for a short period, yet I still feel completely hopeless at the same time. I've never felt stranger in my life than I do when that medication is working in full force. I feel like I could talk to anybody about how to improve their life, yet, feel like I want to end my own life simultaneously. Confusing to say the least.
My point in this rant is that one could argue that "this isn't Tyler speaking". Sure, I guess, but I actually believe that anybody can be anybody at any point. What you consider to be "you" is almost irrelevant to me. You can be naturally quiet and reserved, but you could probably be normally outgoing with the correct alteration of chemicals in your brain. I want to say that Tyler probably isn't as in control of his feelings as you may speak. I saw somebody earlier post something about how was going to propose to his girlfriend even though he was depressed because he knew blah blah blah blah blah. You still feel purpose in proposing to your girlfriend? Hmm, maybe your depression is different from mine then, because in my depression, having a girlfriend or not really doesn't make a difference. In my depression, I don't "care" if I'm ever happy. What I 'want' in my depression is to continue to feel as little as possible. I have some deep reasons that ensure I'll never commit suicide, so hopefully I can just live this life while feeling as little as possible. "Purpose" feels more trivial than ever. I will start practicing something on my piano, screw up, have no real to keep going, and stop playing for the night while pausing for a short moment to try to remember why I started playing in the first place.
I often think of great composers and artists who had "blue periods" or "sad periods" and often painted pictures and composed music to reflect it. I find this amazing, seeing as my experience with depression has been, more than ever, deprived of any sensation at all. I see their paintings and think "wow... this is amazing... how the hell can you paint this while feel depressed? They must not feel depressed, they must feel sad or something", because for my depression, my world is smaller than ever. It's small whether I'm in my room, at a party, at a concert, or at a family dinner. I don't think I can ever write a song in this state. I can't think of anything original in this state. I feel almost nothing and can't think of anything outside of the current state I'm in. My life is like dried oatmeal; everything is dark grey, dark grey, dark grey, there's no change in color or shade at all. If I found out that my family was killed in a car accident, I might think "Oh no, this is the worst thing to have ever happened in my life. I feel like shit. Actually, to be honest, I don't feel any different than usual. I feel like shit everyday". It's very, very hard to admit that I probably wouldn't feel any different if something like that happened to my family, but honestly, everyday single day I feel the same way that I would if my family died.
My point in this is that I realize that for me, and probably for NonY, we are actually in the least amount of control of "changing" our current state than ever. NonY admitted that he believes nothing has a purpose, and that's how I feel, but I also know that there may have been one day, or one hour, or maybe just one minute in the last 5 years where if you asked him the same question about purpose in life that he would have had a different answer. But that time isn't now, and he probably isn't in a state where you are going to get an ounce of optimism or change in him. He may be able to look back in the next few months, or years, and think that his reactions to all of these things are really stupid, but he definitely can't do that now.... at least if he's anything like me he can't. Not while suffering from depression.
tl;dr..... just don't read it. It's too long, and I can't shorten anything from it.
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In English we say, "Practice makes perfect."
Anyone who has ever practiced anything knows that this is nonsense. Practice as we use it, is to repeat something. If someone is repeating something over, and over, then they can never be perfect as they are never improving. They can never respond to the challenge fully and adequately. They just make the same mistakes again and again. The statement is a conundrum as is.
However if you look at the etymology of the word "practice," it originates from the Greek word "praxis" which means TO ACT. This is interesting because it transforms the statement "practice makes perfect" into something different, and logical. The new meaning is "TO ACT is perfect" or "TO ACT, IS" or "perfection is in the action." Perfection is achieved in the action, as in the present, the now, no longer in the repetition.
When this makes sense to you, you will understand the reason for life.
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Tyler do you enjoy music? Does the "reduced emotions" bit apply to music as well? I go through episodes where I can't find motivation or meaning in anything but I've never lost my ability to empathize with music. You're a big elliott smith fan right? When I'm depressed he's usually one of the only artists I'll listen to. Maybe it's because when I'm in that state his music is the only type of music I can identify with but regardless of it making me feel perhaps even more upset, it lets me know that I still am capable of human emotions/feelings so I "enjoy" it.
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Can someone that suffers from clinical depression explain to me some things.Why don't you just kill yourself?
Tyler states there is no point to life,which I agree with.If you share that view and you are in a constant state of low mood,have no interests and pleasures in life,what is the point?Why not just end it?Are you too scared to do it?
Life without the feeling of joy,pleasure and interest,in my mind,is just torture.It's also not only affecting you but all of the people around you that do care,who you are dismissing because you are in this state.Do you stay because of the people that you are attached to so you feel a sense of responsibility to stay,or do you just stay attached to them because they help you with depression and it makes it tolerable?
But if the former is the case than you are just a emotional leech that couldn't function without those people,I have never been in a position where you have to live or constantly be around someone that is clinically depressed but I would imagine that it's a pretty shitty and thankless thing,to care about someone that doesn't.
Tyler for instance has a wife,did you marry her because you felt genuine need and joy to do so or just because it felt like she can alleviate your state? If yes does she still accomplish that?
There are people saying that you can't just take meds and make it all good,but it's a step if you want to change your state of mind right?If you refuse meds and just decide to move along with this torture than again why not just end yourself?
This is a 100% serious post btw and I'm not trolling.
I wish Tyler all the best,I watch his stream when ever I can and I don't even watch starcraft nowadays anymore.
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Life isn't about how good you have it. It's about rolling with the punches and still being about to get up in the morning.
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On October 09 2012 16:01 TheKefka wrote:
Can someone that suffers from clinical depression explain to me some things.Why don't you just kill yourself?
Tyler states there is no point to life,which I agree with.If you share that view and you are in a constant state of low mood,have no interests and pleasures in life,what is the point?Why not just end it?Are you too scared to do it?
Life without the feeling of joy,pleasure and interest,in my mind,is just torture.It's also not only affecting you but all of the people around you that do care,who you are dismissing because you are in this state.Do you stay because of the people that you are attached to so you feel a sense of responsibility to stay,or do you just stay attached to them because they help you with depression and it makes it tolerable?
But if the former is the case than you are just a emotional leech that couldn't function without those people,I have never been in a position where you have to live or constantly be around someone that is clinically depressed but I would imagine that it's a pretty shitty and thankless thing,to care about someone that doesn't.
Tyler for instance has a wife,did you marry her because you felt genuine need and joy to do so or just because it felt like she can alleviate your state? If yes does she still accomplish that?
There are people saying that you can't just take meds and make it all good,but it's a step if you want to change your state of mind right?If you refuse meds and just decide to move along with this torture than again why not just end yourself?
This is a 100% serious post btw and I'm not trolling.
I wish Tyler all the best,I watch his stream when ever I can and I don't even watch starcraft nowadays anymore.
So why don't you "just end it?"
I mean you agree that there's no point in living. Doesn't that just make you an emotional leech on everyone you know?
This is a 100% serious post btw and I'm not trolling.
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On October 09 2012 16:01 TheKefka wrote:
Can someone that suffers from clinical depression explain to me some things.Why don't you just kill yourself?
Tyler states there is no point to life,which I agree with.If you share that view and you are in a constant state of low mood,have no interests and pleasures in life,what is the point?Why not just end it?Are you too scared to do it?
Many due, hence suicides. The ones that don't have many different reasons not too...I can't speak for others, but it's incredibly hard to actually kill yourself. The guilt from the pain it would cause loved ones. Wanting to be happy, knowing how to get there, but unable to motivate yourself enough to do it.
On October 09 2012 16:01 TheKefka wrote:
There are people saying that you can't just take meds and make it all good,but it's a step if you want to change your state of mind right?If you refuse meds and just decide to move along with this torture than again why not just end yourself?
It's an irrational mindset. Everything feels so overwhelming, and hopeless. It drains every bit of energy and motivation you may have. It's really hard to explain.
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Probably the thousandth person to say this, but i suffer from BPD. Just because tyler has a very low day does not give anybody an excuse to all of a sudden call his character, his personality, or his team into questioning over shit that clearly is personal and being kept that way.
I can't stress how badly I want to see Nony shine. He really is a shining example of somebody overcoming obstacles to do something they love, and that shit's inspirational I'm sure to all of us in our own way. How could you not root for this handsome son of a bitch?
Nony Fighting.
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On October 09 2012 13:31 Liquid`NonY wrote:
There is no point to life. If you ask someone "why?", over and over, until the only thing left to explain is the common reason for doing anything at all, for living, for being happy, you will be met with irrationality. No one has ever given a good reason. Motivations get reduced to feelings, not reasons. All of our reasoning begins with premises of (1) feeling a will to survive and (2) feeling a desire to be happy. Rational justification for every act begins with "Assuming you want to live and be happy..."
Depression, in my experience, is the diminishment of these feelings. When you do something that should make you happy by all reasonable measures, you aren't happy. When you do something that should make you sad, you don't feel any worse. When you do nothing, you don't feel any different. A lack of those fundamental feelings is to blame.
There is no way to think yourself out of it because the solution is irrational. They are feelings that healthy humans have, nothing more than that. Willpower is your only tool here. You can irrationally will yourself to seek solutions. You can practice clever ways to coax those feelings back into existence. You can take medicine to promote those feelings. In any case those feelings will probably return, as depression is typically episodic, and you can start being happy again by doing what's good and doing what's right and being successful.
But the better you do the harder you'll fall when those feelings subside again and you're given another lesson about how all that "good" shit you did doesn't matter. One night when your happiness is in full swing, it'll just hit you. You wonder why you did any of it. And no matter what you do or think, your happiness is gone. Habits may carry you a while, but all motivation has vanished. You won't feel like pursuing your own happiness, but you'll feel a lot of other shit that's not so pleasant. You'll pretend nothing has changed, but it's just an act. You'll stretch your willpower to cover the void. If it's enough to bridge the gap, then congratulations on being functioning. If not, then welcome to the club.
P.S. I'm not suicidal. Don't worry about that. I've received a lot of messages from sufferers of depression, thanking me and wishing me well. Though I've responded to very few, I do feel a responsibility. And as I've been acting out this week, it worries me that someone may view my weakness as an excuse to indulge in their own, perhaps doing more damage to themselves than I'm doing to myself. I've willed myself to behave and focus for long enough to write this to remind you that our feelings are diminished, not gone. Even as I write this, I feel a spark, and I hope this reminder gives you one too.
Hello. First of all, I would like to congratulate you on discovering what seems to be an existential philosophy. However, I would like to ask that in the future you keep this to a more personal page. I am personally of the opinion that teamliquid is not exactly an appropriate place for you to be soapboxing your own personal problems, nor should it be a venue for you to discuss your philosophical leanings. This blog is disparaging to the teamliquid blog standard because it downplays a very serious topic. Thoughts of suicide and discussion of depression are not appropriate for the teamliquid blog format.
I have to question your motives when you say you feel "responsible" for other people who are depressed. Do you really? That seems like a big responsibility for someone who is depressed; and, are you actually making yourself out to be a posterboy for those who are depressed? I'm merely playing devil's advocate with these questions, however I think they emphasize my point about this blog perhaps downplaying the seriousness of what you've actually written in your post. My point being, teamliquid is a proud e-sports community, not e-therapist.com. Despite that, you should not feel threatened to make a "cry for help", which this post of yours may very well be.
Anyway, thanks for your time.
User was banned for this post.
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On October 09 2012 13:31 Liquid`NonY wrote:
There is no point to life. If you ask someone "why?", over and over, until the only thing left to explain is the common reason for doing anything at all, for living, for being happy, you will be met with irrationality. No one has ever given a good reason. Motivations get reduced to feelings, not reasons. All of our reasoning begins with premises of (1) feeling a will to survive and (2) feeling a desire to be happy. Rational justification for every act begins with "Assuming you want to live and be happy..."
Rationality involves coherence and logical consistency. It's completely possible to justify a belief or an action with emotions coherently and consistently. "Solving math problems is engaging and fun. I should pursue something if it's engaging and fun. I'm going to solve math problems." How would that be irrational? And in fact, emotion plays a large part in making sensible and rational decisions in everyday life. Without it to guide us through the infinite possibilities of decisions, actions and strategies that are presented to us, making even the tiniest decisions would be a mountain to climb (This is a central difficulty in A.I. research for instance). As was the case with "Elliot" a man who suffered brain damage to the part of his brain that helps regulate emotion. His intelligence was perfectly intact and he passed all the tests that assess neurological damage. But choosing where to eat and even the colour of his pen would take him hours.
That said there are plenty of pursuits and projects in life that are valuable and worthwhile. You can even make the argument that many of those things can be rationally justified. The problem with the question, "What's the meaning of life?" is that it's an unclear and nonsensical question. You wouldn't ask, "What is the meaning of house?" unless you were a non english speaker. I think what that question is really asking is a series of questions such as: "What makes life worth living?", "Is it worth living if we all die in the end anyway?", "Is there a primary purpose to living?" "Do I have to ground my activities in something "bigger" to make it meaningful? etc. With careful and serious consideration you can get an answer to such questions.
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On October 09 2012 16:08 Sinensis wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 16:01 TheKefka wrote:
Can someone that suffers from clinical depression explain to me some things.Why don't you just kill yourself?
Tyler states there is no point to life,which I agree with.If you share that view and you are in a constant state of low mood,have no interests and pleasures in life,what is the point?Why not just end it?Are you too scared to do it?
Life without the feeling of joy,pleasure and interest,in my mind,is just torture.It's also not only affecting you but all of the people around you that do care,who you are dismissing because you are in this state.Do you stay because of the people that you are attached to so you feel a sense of responsibility to stay,or do you just stay attached to them because they help you with depression and it makes it tolerable?
But if the former is the case than you are just a emotional leech that couldn't function without those people,I have never been in a position where you have to live or constantly be around someone that is clinically depressed but I would imagine that it's a pretty shitty and thankless thing,to care about someone that doesn't.
Tyler for instance has a wife,did you marry her because you felt genuine need and joy to do so or just because it felt like she can alleviate your state? If yes does she still accomplish that?
There are people saying that you can't just take meds and make it all good,but it's a step if you want to change your state of mind right?If you refuse meds and just decide to move along with this torture than again why not just end yourself?
This is a 100% serious post btw and I'm not trolling.
I wish Tyler all the best,I watch his stream when ever I can and I don't even watch starcraft nowadays anymore. So why don't you "just end it?" I mean you agree that there's no point in living. Doesn't that just make you an emotional leech on everyone you know? This is a 100% serious post btw and I'm not trolling.
Because I like living and I like experiencing emotions lol,I'm not religious nore do I believe I serve and kind of higher purpose as an individual,I just like to get up and see what happens.Do I think there is a purpose?No.Do I like it?Yes.Hence I never felt the need to kill myself.
Does it make me an emotional leech?Idk,I tend to think that I give pleasure and happiness back to the people that are involved with me in my life,so I guess they get something out of it and it isn't just a selfish one sided experience.
I personally don't have many close friends,I have a gf and a few people that care about me and I care about them.So it's a mutual experience.
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On October 09 2012 16:01 makedajuiceboxwhet wrote:
Life isn't about how good you have it. It's about rolling with the punches and still being about to get up in the morning.
I think this is a great post to make an example of somebody who doesn't understand depression at all.
The fact that you can say that means you don't suffer from it. This poster seems like a guy who maybe has felt bad, or even downright suicidal before, but hasn't felt depression. Depression isn't just feeling sad. Depression is a complete mental takeover. I remember when I was a kid and my grandfather died, or I got beat up, or my dog died... I remember that as a kid I was feeling absolutely shitty... sick to my insides. I remember (I don't actually remember how it feels, I just remember thinking this stuff) how I could say to myself "You know, this is terrible, but I have to be strong, I'm not going to let this take over my life, and I'm going to keep doing my best and try my hardest to live life the way I want to." I can't even begin to think this way now. I can say those words in my head as many times as I want now but they mean nothing. I'm not in control of changing how I feel.
Imagine if every time you had an orgasm you would out of nowhere just start laughing hysterically and uncontrollably for like 5 minutes. Your girlfriend may say "can you please stop doing that? It really ruins the mood.", but you may not actually be in control of changing it. Every time you cum, it just happens. There's no stopping it. Nothing you think of can make you stop laughing. You think of death and blood everywhere... you think of your 8 year old cousin being brutally murdered but you keep laughing and laughing and laughing. Depression is like that. There's pretty much nothing you can tell me or something I can tell myself or think to myself that will change how I act and think. Whether or whether not I do something is just completely down to circumstances or just how bad it is at that time.
You need to read this comic to get a better idea.
![[image loading]](http://www.akimbocomics.com/comic/2010-10-04-Eat_Shit_And_Die_164.jpg)
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Geez, I know all about major depression, but I cannot imagine being depressed and holding down a job that includes performance and the public eye. Looks like its time to make a decision.
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On October 09 2012 16:08 coL.Minigun wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 16:01 TheKefka wrote:
Can someone that suffers from clinical depression explain to me some things.Why don't you just kill yourself?
Tyler states there is no point to life,which I agree with.If you share that view and you are in a constant state of low mood,have no interests and pleasures in life,what is the point?Why not just end it?Are you too scared to do it? Many due, hence suicides. The ones that don't have many different reasons not too...I can't speak for others, but it's incredibly hard to actually kill yourself. The guilt from the pain it would cause loved ones. Wanting to be happy, knowing how to get there, but unable to motivate yourself enough to do it.
Yea I understand that.But the "The guilt from the pain it would cause loved ones" argument kinda doesn't hold ground when you cause pain either way just by being there.I mean as I said I have no idea how it is to be around a depressed person constantly but I imagine it's a pretty shitty thing to constantly feel your burden.
Obviously you cant measure the quantity of pain you cause,but constant pain builds up to a point where you either learn to tolerate it,but you are still in pain,or you just give in.
It's sounds to me like being in a bad relationship that you know it's going no where.It's hard to just end it,so you stay,but it doesn't make it better,only ending it and taking time to heal really makes things better.
Seems to me it just comes down to being scared.
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I recommend Thich Nhat Hanh's Peace Is Every Step.
I recommend "laughter yoga." (In which you get a bunch of people lying each with his head on another's stomach and laugh)+ Show Spoiler +
Doing god things for others brings a smile to my face.
You can have happiness through something as simple as breathing.
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Very good post. I read this and its like a script in my own life. The problem i felt with my depression is staying at home. Going out even tho I hate it, even tho I do not want to helps a lot. Even just getting by with the pain still lets me enjoy some time with friends. However I have distanced myself with so many of my good friends because of depression it is hard to go out anymore. Just one thing these feelings suck, it sucks more then physical pain because I believe I could take all of the physical and still be happy and move on. This pain is different and I would wish it on no person ever.
Good luck with yours Nony, all I keep telling myself is ... "Life has to get better at some point" everyday.
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What more reason to live than to find the reason to live?
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On October 09 2012 16:26 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2012 16:08 coL.Minigun wrote:On October 09 2012 16:01 TheKefka wrote:
Can someone that suffers from clinical depression explain to me some things.Why don't you just kill yourself?
Tyler states there is no point to life,which I agree with.If you share that view and you are in a constant state of low mood,have no interests and pleasures in life,what is the point?Why not just end it?Are you too scared to do it? Many due, hence suicides. The ones that don't have many different reasons not too...I can't speak for others, but it's incredibly hard to actually kill yourself. The guilt from the pain it would cause loved ones. Wanting to be happy, knowing how to get there, but unable to motivate yourself enough to do it. Yea I understand that.But the "The guilt from the pain it would cause loved ones" argument kinda doesn't hold ground when you cause pain either way just by being there.I mean as I said I have no idea how it is to be around a depressed person constantly but I imagine it's a pretty shitty thing to constantly feel your burden. Obviously you cant measure the quantity of pain you cause,but constant pain builds up to a point where you either learn to tolerate it,but you are still in pain,or you just give in. It's sounds to me like being in a bad relationship that you know it's going no where.It's hard to just end it,so you stay,but it doesn't make it better,only ending it and taking time to heal really makes things better.
It's usually no different than being around anyone else. No, you don't always cause others pain. It's like putting on a mask every day, every interaction, you smile act happy, while you are the furthest from it.
And if you have a friend who doesn't do that and instead of helping him you see him as a burden, then he probably wasn't your friend.
Seems to me it just comes down to being scared.
Then yes, you have no idea what it's like.
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