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Torchlight 2 - The Real Diablo 2 Successor?

Blogs > Treehead
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1 2 Next All
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
September 25 2012 01:19 GMT
#1
Torchlight 2 has been a good experience so far, and I can see definite potential for it to outshine others of its kind in the ARPG genre. It’s only been out a little bit, and so I want to avoid doing a full write up and render my opinion until I’ve had a bit more experience with the game - but there are a few things I wanted to point out in the early days of playing Torchlight 2. My hope is that, for others who (like me) were disappointed with Diablo 3, there is an option to play something which feels more like the spiritual successor to Diablo 2.

[image loading]
They may have come out around the same time. They may both be ARPGs. That's about where the similarities end.

Customization

Remember making decisions about where stat points go? Remember when you needed to know more about a character than its class to determine what it would do and how it would play? Remember creating awfully inefficient characters which you enjoyed because they did something amusing?

It looks like all the customizable glory of its ARPG predecessors is here in Torchlight 2. You pick your stat points. You pick what weapons your class should use and which you shouldn’t. You pick what skills you have access to – and how many points to invest in each of those skills.

I play a Berserker this time through, and he’s been running with primarily a shadow-oriented spec, with some complimentary buffs from other trees. But – I’ve used some of the ice abilities for a level or two and come to the conclusion that I could (and may) create another Berserker later on down the line which would focus on dealing elemental damage. That makes 2 different types of characters which seem like they’d be distinct and fun to play without even taking a close look at the third tree (which has some things on it which seem interesting and I’d have to experiment to know if they were great or awful) – and after having very minimal experience playing the game. And then of course I have a ton of ideas for characters that have a high likelihood to be terrible (but that I may end up building nonetheless).

And if that isn’t enough skill customization for you, you also can use general purpose spells that everyone has access to.

Aside from that, there’s gear decisions for you and your pet, as well as many types of socketables and enchantments to keep your gear from being too dull.

Difficulty

Torchlight 2 can be hard. It’s really quite hard, if you want it to be. I play on Veteran, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m going to have to work on my in-game knowledge for a bit before I’m able to play hardcore. You can die very, very early in the game if you’re not careful – and I haven’t even tried the highest difficulty setting. This sound like any game you’ve played before? It sure doesn’t sound like Diablo 3, does it?

Torchlight 2 can also be easy, though. When I played on Normal, it felt something like an appropriate-leveled Hell Difficulty barbarian in Diablo III. That is to say – I could die, but I probably wouldn’t. And I imagine if you set it on easy… well, I imagine it’s pretty easy.

It can be what you want it to. If you want something which is horribly difficult to master – I imagine the highest difficulty will give just about anyone problems. But if you want something which you can play casually while joking around with friends - it can be that, too. The fact that difficulty is adjustable solves the problem of catering either to exclusively casual or exclusively hardcore characters – though I’ll be honest, the increased difficulty is the real draw here for me. There are other games I can play casually, but it’s been a while since I had difficulty on the non-highest difficulty setting for a game.

[image loading]

Gameplay

I mentioned already that it’s hard – what I haven’t mentioned is that it’s the “right kind of hard”. It was said of Inferno difficulty early in the lifespan of Diablo 3 that it was the “wrong kind of hard”. That is to say – the skill cap was relatively low, the number of skills you can use was relatively low, the damage was incredibly high, and player characters were incredibly fragile. I don’t feel this way in Torchlight 2. As a berserker, I feel like I have ways of healing and escaping damage, and ways of tanking damage too. In my brief experience with other classes, I haven’t had too much difficulty keeping them alive and avoiding damage.

A big thing here is potions – they work on the old Diablo 2 model. You take damage, you drink potions. You take more damage than you can heal in potions, you die. All classes have access to potions so there’s no need for some cutesy panic button ability so that you don’t die at times when you should be taking continuous damage.

Another big thing is skill diversity. I mentioned already that there’s a lot of room for customization. What I haven’t mentioned is that within each build a lot of skills and spells will be useful. My berserker is in Act II (at level 30-ish) and already he has 3 short-length buffs to keep an eye on and 4 summons. And then there’s the attacks. Needless to say, I’m never at a loss for things to do even so early in the game. The experience is that much more engaging because I feel like I ought to be playing it faster and with more of an awareness of what’s going on in the game.

And then there's this:

[image loading]


Item Acquisition

You get items from drops and friends. That’s all. No Auction House. Excess gold can find more than enough usage through enchanters and gambling – among other things – but there’s no direct tie between gold and items. It’s a much more exciting experience, and you get none of this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354374
On this note, if you loved that loot wasn't shared in multiplayer D3, rejoice - you get the same thing here.

Statistical Complexity

Remember how easy figuring out gearing was in D3? Resist/ Vit/Main Stat well rolled on every piece – and that was all you had to know. It’s not quite so straightforward in Torchlight 2. Your choices often change in terms of optimality based on what skills you are using and how much your gear is lacking. There are also a TON of stats. There’s one for each resist, one for each stat, crit chance, crit damage, execute chance, elemental damage types, status effects, and I’m sure other things that I’ve forgotten to include. Depending on your setup, you may need only a few of these – or you might need all of them (I don’t see much that doesn’t seem to be of use to my Berserker).
Balance

Is the game balanced? I dunno. Probably not. But maybe that’s a good thing, because one thing the game is not is homogenous. Dex, Vitality, Focus and Strength all add differing amounts to each type of character – and while some skills are dependent off of high weapon damage, others are static based on level and elemental damage bonuses. That means that Strength, Focus, and Dexterity-based characters all take different amounts of bonus from their stats (both offensively and defensively) – but since when is that a bad thing? Do they all need to contribute to their character’s damage and survivability at exactly the same rate? I loved Diablo 2, and it wasn’t like this. I had fun with Titan Quest – same deal. The rules that Blizzard started applying to these types of games to balance them when WoW hit its stride really don’t apply here. It's not an MMO. Log onto Diablo 3 sometime (or don't) - you'll notice you don't have 50 people competing for your spot in your game.

[image loading]
Jeez, Diablo, you didn't have to be so blunt about it. I have people online, ok?


Sure, that means my Outlander might not get as far as my Berserker in Hardcore mode, but then it also means that the mechanics behind each of those characters get to be more distinct and interesting. In an ARPG, I personally find the latter to be much more important.

Conclusion

For those of you who quit D3 a while ago, or for those of you who are still playing but are wondering why you are bothering – Torchlight II offers a great and cheap alternative. There’s only a vague bit of story (i.e. some pit lord isn’t calling you names constantly, and you don't get to witness dramatic deaths of characters you didn't really care about to begin with), and the gameplay and mechanics seem rich and rewarding. I’m loving this game. Maybe it’s that it’s new (I’ll get back to you on that in a couple months). But for $20, I’m betting that I’m going to have my ARPG fix for at least several months – and if I’m lucky (and I can only hope I am) long enough for a new great ARPG to come out which ignores the direction that many of the ARPG games are moving these days. It comes highly recommended.

Just... close your eyes during cutscenes.

****
Parlortricks
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States111 Posts
September 25 2012 02:24 GMT
#2
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
September 25 2012 02:38 GMT
#3
Interesting blog, thanks for sharing After reading that, I'm glad I didn't play Diablo 3.

I've been playing on Veteran (hardcore) and I agree with you about the difficulty. Gotta love this game really, no fluff, legit hack n slash action, fair price tag.

My favorite thing so far in Torchlight 2 is the Charge mechanic. I also love the spell mechanic similar to Torchlight 1, which allows you to equip / unequip a handful of spell such as elemental protection, summon skeleton archers etc. I love the fact that your pet can equip them too ! I mean, a wolf who can summon zombies and whatnot? All in all, Really fun stuff.
o choro é livre
itsjustatank
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Hong Kong9152 Posts
September 25 2012 02:41 GMT
#4
I feel the same way. In many ways, I only bought D3 as a stopgap until Torchlight 2 finally released.
Photographer"nosotros estamos backamos" - setsuko
dartoo
Profile Joined May 2010
India2889 Posts
September 25 2012 03:04 GMT
#5
It's actually quite nice to play single player without lag. Atleast from here the lag is horrendous, for a arpg,especially on dh you can really tell.
R0YAL
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States1768 Posts
September 25 2012 03:09 GMT
#6
So far I like Torchlight 2 more than D3. The greatest obstacle will be the test of time. There are so many different ways to build a character that I think it has a greater potential to beat out D3 in the test of time area, it all depends on how Blizzard handles the expansion. The Blizzard of Old was immaculate at tweeking their games for the best, lets see if modern Blizzard can contend.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
September 25 2012 03:18 GMT
#7
On September 25 2012 11:24 Parlortricks wrote:
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.


I've looked at Path of Exile and Grim Dawn, and at face value they both look like they're good games. But since they're unreleased, I haven't looked at them closely enough to determine if they're better than Torchlight II. When they're released, I'll definitely watch for the feedback, but at the end of the day, the fact some of the D2 team is still at Runic makes me give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

That's why I say "spiritual successor" because some of the team is involved in the making of D2 and it's along the same spirit. I didn't say it was the best ARPG possible - and no doubt there will be better.
DRTnOOber
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand476 Posts
September 25 2012 04:14 GMT
#8
On September 25 2012 11:24 Parlortricks wrote:
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.

I completely agree - Path of Exile from what I've played in the closed beta is everything I could want from an ARPG. It's not as flash as Diablo 3, but it has a really nice skill system and hugely diverse paths for every character you make, plus it has one persistent world for all players (in towns anyway) which is pretty unique.

Aaaand it's being developed here in New Zealand so I have to support it

AAAaaaand it will be free to play when it comes out!
But I'm off creep... and so I slow down, what are hellions doing here? I don't belong here...
DRTnOOber
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
New Zealand476 Posts
September 25 2012 04:15 GMT
#9
On September 25 2012 12:18 Treehead wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 11:24 Parlortricks wrote:
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.


I've looked at Path of Exile and Grim Dawn, and at face value they both look like they're good games. But since they're unreleased, I haven't looked at them closely enough to determine if they're better than Torchlight II. When they're released, I'll definitely watch for the feedback, but at the end of the day, the fact some of the D2 team is still at Runic makes me give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.

That's why I say "spiritual successor" because some of the team is involved in the making of D2 and it's along the same spirit. I didn't say it was the best ARPG possible - and no doubt there will be better.

If you donate $10 USD to the project you can get a closed beta key and play Path of Exile right away.
But I'm off creep... and so I slow down, what are hellions doing here? I don't belong here...
javy_
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1677 Posts
September 25 2012 05:09 GMT
#10
meh, I'm gonna stick with D3.
♪~( ̄。 ̄)
FractalsOnFire
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1756 Posts
September 25 2012 07:47 GMT
#11
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.

PS I'm on Veteran.
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
September 25 2012 09:11 GMT
#12
Whats the picture supposed to be where it says "And then theres this:"

Cant see it T_T
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
TOCHMY
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden1692 Posts
September 25 2012 09:16 GMT
#13
On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.

PS I'm on Veteran.


Play on elite
Yoona <3 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Look! It's Totoro! ☉.☉☂
Incze
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Romania2058 Posts
September 25 2012 12:46 GMT
#14
Torchlight 2 is pretty awesome, but I'll wait until PoE and GD are released before giving my verdict
Religion: Buckethead
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-25 12:49:40
September 25 2012 12:48 GMT
#15
I do have to say though that blizzard still takes the prize for creating (more) memorable bestiary and chars.

Except for the running penises. In act 3 TL2 you get attacked by a lot of walking penises its really weird..
1yzarc1
Profile Joined May 2012
England19 Posts
September 25 2012 12:54 GMT
#16
WIth modding abilities i think that its almost inevitable that Torchlight 2 will be better than diablo 3 in the long run even if its not better on release
Treehead
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
999 Posts
September 25 2012 14:01 GMT
#17
On September 25 2012 18:11 TOCHMY wrote:
Whats the picture supposed to be where it says "And then theres this:"

Cant see it T_T


It's a checklist of all sorts of stuff Torchlight has that D3 doesn't, stuff like more than 11 hours of gameplay, original D2 devs... maybe the picture got taken down or something.

On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.

PS I'm on Veteran.


Meh, it's possible - I've only played a Berserker, and for me Veteran can be pretty challenging. Not everything is a challenge and I'm sure I'll need elite once I get max-levelled and geared, but still... the thought of playing this game on hardcore is exciting... to me at least.
EG.lectR
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States617 Posts
September 25 2012 15:10 GMT
#18
really enjoying it...probably the first game in a while that I've committed chunks of hours at a time to progress through
@colindeshong
CryMore
Profile Joined March 2010
United States497 Posts
September 25 2012 17:54 GMT
#19
One of my favorite parts is that you can have skill builds that don't rely at all on weapon damage. I'm playing an outlander where i am stacking +% pzn damage and my weapon has very low damage, but increased critical hit damage. It gives you a ton of option when it comes to picking a weapon instead of simply picking the higher damage one.
"What wins? 3-base Protoss or 2-base Zerg?" "1-base Terran"
FractalsOnFire
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1756 Posts
September 27 2012 14:49 GMT
#20
On September 25 2012 18:16 TOCHMY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.

PS I'm on Veteran.


Play on elite


And i did. Definitely more fun and challenging. Still relatively easy for normal creeps unless i get mobbed.

There was one level for the genie in act 2 + Show Spoiler +
where you have to stay within the circle of light. Fuck me i got RAPED HARD. Virtually impossible as i usually died within the first two waves. Had to decrease the difficulty down to veteran. My character needs space to move as i teleport to avoid damage and draw out mobs.
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