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Torchlight 2 has been a good experience so far, and I can see definite potential for it to outshine others of its kind in the ARPG genre. It’s only been out a little bit, and so I want to avoid doing a full write up and render my opinion until I’ve had a bit more experience with the game - but there are a few things I wanted to point out in the early days of playing Torchlight 2. My hope is that, for others who (like me) were disappointed with Diablo 3, there is an option to play something which feels more like the spiritual successor to Diablo 2.
![[image loading]](http://blogs-images.forbes.com/erikkain/files/2012/05/Infographic-for-Torchlight-2-vs.-Diablo-3.jpg)
They may have come out around the same time. They may both be ARPGs. That's about where the similarities end.
Customization
Remember making decisions about where stat points go? Remember when you needed to know more about a character than its class to determine what it would do and how it would play? Remember creating awfully inefficient characters which you enjoyed because they did something amusing?
It looks like all the customizable glory of its ARPG predecessors is here in Torchlight 2. You pick your stat points. You pick what weapons your class should use and which you shouldn’t. You pick what skills you have access to – and how many points to invest in each of those skills.
I play a Berserker this time through, and he’s been running with primarily a shadow-oriented spec, with some complimentary buffs from other trees. But – I’ve used some of the ice abilities for a level or two and come to the conclusion that I could (and may) create another Berserker later on down the line which would focus on dealing elemental damage. That makes 2 different types of characters which seem like they’d be distinct and fun to play without even taking a close look at the third tree (which has some things on it which seem interesting and I’d have to experiment to know if they were great or awful) – and after having very minimal experience playing the game. And then of course I have a ton of ideas for characters that have a high likelihood to be terrible (but that I may end up building nonetheless).
And if that isn’t enough skill customization for you, you also can use general purpose spells that everyone has access to.
Aside from that, there’s gear decisions for you and your pet, as well as many types of socketables and enchantments to keep your gear from being too dull.
Difficulty
Torchlight 2 can be hard. It’s really quite hard, if you want it to be. I play on Veteran, and I’ve come to the conclusion that I’m going to have to work on my in-game knowledge for a bit before I’m able to play hardcore. You can die very, very early in the game if you’re not careful – and I haven’t even tried the highest difficulty setting. This sound like any game you’ve played before? It sure doesn’t sound like Diablo 3, does it?
Torchlight 2 can also be easy, though. When I played on Normal, it felt something like an appropriate-leveled Hell Difficulty barbarian in Diablo III. That is to say – I could die, but I probably wouldn’t. And I imagine if you set it on easy… well, I imagine it’s pretty easy.
It can be what you want it to. If you want something which is horribly difficult to master – I imagine the highest difficulty will give just about anyone problems. But if you want something which you can play casually while joking around with friends - it can be that, too. The fact that difficulty is adjustable solves the problem of catering either to exclusively casual or exclusively hardcore characters – though I’ll be honest, the increased difficulty is the real draw here for me. There are other games I can play casually, but it’s been a while since I had difficulty on the non-highest difficulty setting for a game.
![[image loading]](http://zipmeme.com/uploads/generated/g1337979074421682502.jpg)
Gameplay
I mentioned already that it’s hard – what I haven’t mentioned is that it’s the “right kind of hard”. It was said of Inferno difficulty early in the lifespan of Diablo 3 that it was the “wrong kind of hard”. That is to say – the skill cap was relatively low, the number of skills you can use was relatively low, the damage was incredibly high, and player characters were incredibly fragile. I don’t feel this way in Torchlight 2. As a berserker, I feel like I have ways of healing and escaping damage, and ways of tanking damage too. In my brief experience with other classes, I haven’t had too much difficulty keeping them alive and avoiding damage.
A big thing here is potions – they work on the old Diablo 2 model. You take damage, you drink potions. You take more damage than you can heal in potions, you die. All classes have access to potions so there’s no need for some cutesy panic button ability so that you don’t die at times when you should be taking continuous damage.
Another big thing is skill diversity. I mentioned already that there’s a lot of room for customization. What I haven’t mentioned is that within each build a lot of skills and spells will be useful. My berserker is in Act II (at level 30-ish) and already he has 3 short-length buffs to keep an eye on and 4 summons. And then there’s the attacks. Needless to say, I’m never at a loss for things to do even so early in the game. The experience is that much more engaging because I feel like I ought to be playing it faster and with more of an awareness of what’s going on in the game.
And then there's this:
Item Acquisition
You get items from drops and friends. That’s all. No Auction House. Excess gold can find more than enough usage through enchanters and gambling – among other things – but there’s no direct tie between gold and items. It’s a much more exciting experience, and you get none of this:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354374
On this note, if you loved that loot wasn't shared in multiplayer D3, rejoice - you get the same thing here.
Statistical Complexity
Remember how easy figuring out gearing was in D3? Resist/ Vit/Main Stat well rolled on every piece – and that was all you had to know. It’s not quite so straightforward in Torchlight 2. Your choices often change in terms of optimality based on what skills you are using and how much your gear is lacking. There are also a TON of stats. There’s one for each resist, one for each stat, crit chance, crit damage, execute chance, elemental damage types, status effects, and I’m sure other things that I’ve forgotten to include. Depending on your setup, you may need only a few of these – or you might need all of them (I don’t see much that doesn’t seem to be of use to my Berserker).
Balance
Is the game balanced? I dunno. Probably not. But maybe that’s a good thing, because one thing the game is not is homogenous. Dex, Vitality, Focus and Strength all add differing amounts to each type of character – and while some skills are dependent off of high weapon damage, others are static based on level and elemental damage bonuses. That means that Strength, Focus, and Dexterity-based characters all take different amounts of bonus from their stats (both offensively and defensively) – but since when is that a bad thing? Do they all need to contribute to their character’s damage and survivability at exactly the same rate? I loved Diablo 2, and it wasn’t like this. I had fun with Titan Quest – same deal. The rules that Blizzard started applying to these types of games to balance them when WoW hit its stride really don’t apply here. It's not an MMO. Log onto Diablo 3 sometime (or don't) - you'll notice you don't have 50 people competing for your spot in your game.
![[image loading]](http://fireden.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/NoFriends.png)
Jeez, Diablo, you didn't have to be so blunt about it. I have people online, ok?
Sure, that means my Outlander might not get as far as my Berserker in Hardcore mode, but then it also means that the mechanics behind each of those characters get to be more distinct and interesting. In an ARPG, I personally find the latter to be much more important.
Conclusion
For those of you who quit D3 a while ago, or for those of you who are still playing but are wondering why you are bothering – Torchlight II offers a great and cheap alternative. There’s only a vague bit of story (i.e. some pit lord isn’t calling you names constantly, and you don't get to witness dramatic deaths of characters you didn't really care about to begin with), and the gameplay and mechanics seem rich and rewarding. I’m loving this game. Maybe it’s that it’s new (I’ll get back to you on that in a couple months). But for $20, I’m betting that I’m going to have my ARPG fix for at least several months – and if I’m lucky (and I can only hope I am) long enough for a new great ARPG to come out which ignores the direction that many of the ARPG games are moving these days. It comes highly recommended.
Just... close your eyes during cutscenes. 
 
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Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.
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Interesting blog, thanks for sharing After reading that, I'm glad I didn't play Diablo 3.
I've been playing on Veteran (hardcore) and I agree with you about the difficulty. Gotta love this game really, no fluff, legit hack n slash action, fair price tag.
My favorite thing so far in Torchlight 2 is the Charge mechanic. I also love the spell mechanic similar to Torchlight 1, which allows you to equip / unequip a handful of spell such as elemental protection, summon skeleton archers etc. I love the fact that your pet can equip them too ! I mean, a wolf who can summon zombies and whatnot? All in all, Really fun stuff.
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Hong Kong9154 Posts
I feel the same way. In many ways, I only bought D3 as a stopgap until Torchlight 2 finally released.
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It's actually quite nice to play single player without lag. Atleast from here the lag is horrendous, for a arpg,especially on dh you can really tell.
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So far I like Torchlight 2 more than D3. The greatest obstacle will be the test of time. There are so many different ways to build a character that I think it has a greater potential to beat out D3 in the test of time area, it all depends on how Blizzard handles the expansion. The Blizzard of Old was immaculate at tweeking their games for the best, lets see if modern Blizzard can contend.
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On September 25 2012 11:24 Parlortricks wrote:
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.
I've looked at Path of Exile and Grim Dawn, and at face value they both look like they're good games. But since they're unreleased, I haven't looked at them closely enough to determine if they're better than Torchlight II. When they're released, I'll definitely watch for the feedback, but at the end of the day, the fact some of the D2 team is still at Runic makes me give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being.
That's why I say "spiritual successor" because some of the team is involved in the making of D2 and it's along the same spirit. I didn't say it was the best ARPG possible - and no doubt there will be better.
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On September 25 2012 11:24 Parlortricks wrote:
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor.
I completely agree - Path of Exile from what I've played in the closed beta is everything I could want from an ARPG. It's not as flash as Diablo 3, but it has a really nice skill system and hugely diverse paths for every character you make, plus it has one persistent world for all players (in towns anyway) which is pretty unique.
Aaaand it's being developed here in New Zealand so I have to support it
AAAaaaand it will be free to play when it comes out!
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On September 25 2012 12:18 Treehead wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 11:24 Parlortricks wrote:
Path of Exile is also in contention. Take a look at that game and a few other unreleased ARPGs before you start calling who might be the true successor. I've looked at Path of Exile and Grim Dawn, and at face value they both look like they're good games. But since they're unreleased, I haven't looked at them closely enough to determine if they're better than Torchlight II. When they're released, I'll definitely watch for the feedback, but at the end of the day, the fact some of the D2 team is still at Runic makes me give them the benefit of the doubt for the time being. That's why I say "spiritual successor" because some of the team is involved in the making of D2 and it's along the same spirit. I didn't say it was the best ARPG possible - and no doubt there will be better.
If you donate $10 USD to the project you can get a closed beta key and play Path of Exile right away.
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meh, I'm gonna stick with D3.
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So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.
PS I'm on Veteran.
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Whats the picture supposed to be where it says "And then theres this:"
Cant see it T_T
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On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.
PS I'm on Veteran.
Play on elite
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Torchlight 2 is pretty awesome, but I'll wait until PoE and GD are released before giving my verdict
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I do have to say though that blizzard still takes the prize for creating (more) memorable bestiary and chars.
Except for the running penises. In act 3 TL2 you get attacked by a lot of walking penises its really weird..
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WIth modding abilities i think that its almost inevitable that Torchlight 2 will be better than diablo 3 in the long run even if its not better on release
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On September 25 2012 18:11 TOCHMY wrote:
Whats the picture supposed to be where it says "And then theres this:"
Cant see it T_T
It's a checklist of all sorts of stuff Torchlight has that D3 doesn't, stuff like more than 11 hours of gameplay, original D2 devs... maybe the picture got taken down or something.
On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.
PS I'm on Veteran.
Meh, it's possible - I've only played a Berserker, and for me Veteran can be pretty challenging. Not everything is a challenge and I'm sure I'll need elite once I get max-levelled and geared, but still... the thought of playing this game on hardcore is exciting... to me at least.
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really enjoying it...probably the first game in a while that I've committed chunks of hours at a time to progress through
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One of my favorite parts is that you can have skill builds that don't rely at all on weapon damage. I'm playing an outlander where i am stacking +% pzn damage and my weapon has very low damage, but increased critical hit damage. It gives you a ton of option when it comes to picking a weapon instead of simply picking the higher damage one.
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On September 25 2012 18:16 TOCHMY wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.
PS I'm on Veteran. Play on elite
And i did. Definitely more fun and challenging. Still relatively easy for normal creeps unless i get mobbed.
There was one level for the genie in act 2 + Show Spoiler +where you have to stay within the circle of light. Fuck me i got RAPED HARD. Virtually impossible as i usually died within the first two waves. Had to decrease the difficulty down to veteran. My character needs space to move as i teleport to avoid damage and draw out mobs.
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My big issue with the game is that it is (reportedly) already completely hacked/modded and dupes are easy to come by for anyone that one wants to do it. I know some people enjoy that in a game, but personally, I like to be involved in a "legit" economy (I know botting really can't be stopped in any of these games).
I think after a few hours, I would be too tempted to just completely mod the game and make a godly character. That is me, though, and I'm sure it can be fun going through alone or with a group of friends that you know want to play legit.
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The main problem I have with Torchlight 2 is that is is not as "snappy" at D3. All of the animinations and abilities feel really squishy and not as responsive as D3.
They are also two every different games. Torchlight 2 is opening itself up to being modded, while D3 is in a more locked down format. Modding can lead to cheats and other non-sense which D3 will avoid due to being locked down. Also, Blizzard has shown that they want a robust endgame for D3 and they have continued to add things to it. I think there is room in our hearts for both games.
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On September 28 2012 00:55 HardlyNever wrote:
My big issue with the game is that it is (reportedly) already completely hacked/modded and dupes are easy to come by for anyone that one wants to do it. I know some people enjoy that in a game, but personally, I like to be involved in a "legit" economy (I know botting really can't be stopped in any of these games).
I think after a few hours, I would be too tempted to just completely mod the game and make a godly character. That is me, though, and I'm sure it can be fun going through alone or with a group of friends that you know want to play legit.
This isn't an MMO. If you don't like people messing with the game, don't play with them. If you don't like dupes, don't use them. You aren't forced to be exposed to anyone you don't want to be exposed to.
I don't dupe, I don't hack and I don't play with people who do. Until you mentioned this, I didn't even realize it was an issue. I'm having fun playing - you don't *need* to be involved with these things one way or the other.
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I'm on my 3rd embermage because the first 2 didn't work out as polished as i wanted it to be. My goal was, or is, to make an Elementalist using skills from fire, frost and storm instead of focusing on one main skill tree. I'm just trying to tie the best skills together that increase each others damage exponentially as they are used in the right order(s).
I think this time around I'm going to get it right and not waste 1 skill point on anything that ends up not being used or is a "meh" skill that is occasionally used so you don't feel so bad having wasted 5 or more points on something that just didn't work out as well as another.
I any case this game is the shit. I love it and it's way more fun that D3. I can't wait for the mod community to get up and running full speed. Gonna be alot of fun.
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On September 28 2012 01:52 Plansix wrote:
The main problem I have with Torchlight 2 is that is is not as "snappy" at D3. All of the animinations and abilities feel really squishy and not as responsive as D3.
They are also two every different games. Torchlight 2 is opening itself up to being modded, while D3 is in a more locked down format. Modding can lead to cheats and other non-sense which D3 will avoid due to being locked down. Also, Blizzard has shown that they want a robust endgame for D3 and they have continued to add things to it. I think there is room in our hearts for both games.
Yeah blizz will add, and is adding 1.05 soon, more content to D3. However so much damage has been done due to the half ass job they did with the overall game. The one thing i can say they did perfect almost was the physics and combat. That's why it feels so much more responsive and realistic than TL2. However, they failed on every other front with all the exploits (even one now as i write this...you can dual wield 2handed weapons. Any weapon..even skorn.) Its fucking ridiculous how rigid D3 is even still 3 months after release.
Anyway I'm not going into a discourse on that epic failure. I say that to say this, TL2 did everything right on release. This game has so much addictive gameplay and replayability, and the best part is TL2 is open for so much expansion because of it's design to be fully moddable.
Having said that, we can expect to see some graphic overhauls and retextures, physics and responsiveness improvements, new area's, classes etc etc etc.
Hope it turns out great. NOTE: People in D3 cheat like hell. Ever heard of botting? That game is riddled with cheats and exploits it's ridiculous. It's your choice to cheat. If others do it it doesn't destroy or devalue the game.
Also, D3's 1 endgame feature is most unrewarding yet time consuming, dreadful farming grind I have ever experienced...700 hours inferno farming and never a killer drop because of the RMAH there is a hidden global factor at play in rolling good items which is why the loot is 99.9999999...% of the items are complete and utter shit.
Not so with TL2. Everything is fun and rewarding, and even the graphics have a charming appeal...it's like it's own signature look.
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On September 27 2012 23:49 FractalsOnFire wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 18:16 TOCHMY wrote:On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.
PS I'm on Veteran. Play on elite And i did. Definitely more fun and challenging. Still relatively easy for normal creeps unless i get mobbed. There was one level for the genie in act 2 + Show Spoiler +where you have to stay within the circle of light. Fuck me i got RAPED HARD. Virtually impossible as i usually died within the first two waves. Had to decrease the difficulty down to veteran. My character needs space to move as i teleport to avoid damage and draw out mobs.
Hrmph... Go try the Phase Beast challenges... and never miss a chest...fuk that.
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On October 01 2012 07:44 ParadigmDeez wrote:Show nested quote +On September 27 2012 23:49 FractalsOnFire wrote:On September 25 2012 18:16 TOCHMY wrote:On September 25 2012 16:47 FractalsOnFire wrote:
So far i've been enjoying Torchlight 2 but now with my mage killing everything so easily bar bosses and me being an idiot, it's starting to wear thin on me.
PS I'm on Veteran. Play on elite And i did. Definitely more fun and challenging. Still relatively easy for normal creeps unless i get mobbed. There was one level for the genie in act 2 + Show Spoiler +where you have to stay within the circle of light. Fuck me i got RAPED HARD. Virtually impossible as i usually died within the first two waves. Had to decrease the difficulty down to veteran. My character needs space to move as i teleport to avoid damage and draw out mobs. Hrmph... Go try the Phase Beast challenges... and never miss a chest...fuk that.
Which one? I've done the tar challenge, the spider challenge and one with a bunch of skeletons that was stupidly easy.
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After playing TL2 and PoE extensevily i tried to log into D3, and after 5 minutes i quit, what made me do this? Simple, my lvl 1 character(all of my 60lvl were long time dead on HC) was moving so slow i got irritated, i started to count seconds how long it takes it to reach inn from center of town. Then i had to cancel 2 dialogues, and i remembered why i don't enjoy playing this game as much, and i knew i would have to run normal, NM, Hell as a total useless timesink unlike it was in D2 or PoE when you can get powerful items(PoE has no restriction in currency drops, any currency item can drop at any time and some low lvl uniques are endgame worthy) and create your character (so leveling made a sense, it didnt auto-checklist my attributes).
Blizzard fucked up game dynamics so bad i dont even understand. ACTION RPG, with heavily capped movement speed, weapon speed, cut scenes after 100th playthrough (WTF?). Next time Blizz please dont bring RTS designers to make ARPGs 
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Yeah I completely agree with the OP . I currently have an Embermage who is lvl 31 right now and just complete all the genie challenge. At first, when I first try the second challenge, I got raped also, since I put every points in focus a few in dex. Then I went and do the other quest, lvl up a bit, put a few in vit and ta da, finally finished. I just love this game. This is the first time I've had so much fun since Diablo 2 Median.
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It wasn't even RTS designers, it was WoW designers.
Playing Torchlight 2 for 3 hours now and I can guarantee you its really fucking fun. The loot and quests are really rewarding. My biggest gripe with the game has to be the artstyle though, I'm a sucker for grim dark gothic themes and Torchlight 2 is basically more cartoony than Warcraft 3. The characters all look pretty much the same except for their pose, unlike what their character art depicts them as. That being said I feel like its way more fun than Diablo 2, but I don't like how ranged weapons have infinite ammo feels too gamey.
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On October 01 2012 16:41 bgx wrote:After playing TL2 and PoE extensevily i tried to log into D3, and after 5 minutes i quit, what made me do this? Simple, my lvl 1 character(all of my 60lvl were long time dead on HC) was moving so slow i got irritated, i started to count seconds how long it takes it to reach inn from center of town. Then i had to cancel 2 dialogues, and i remembered why i don't enjoy playing this game as much, and i knew i would have to run normal, NM, Hell as a total useless timesink unlike it was in D2 or PoE when you can get powerful items(PoE has no restriction in currency drops, any currency item can drop at any time and some low lvl uniques are endgame worthy) and create your character (so leveling made a sense, it didnt auto-checklist my attributes). Blizzard fucked up game dynamics so bad i dont even understand. ACTION RPG, with heavily capped movement speed, weapon speed, cut scenes after 100th playthrough (WTF?). Next time Blizz please dont bring RTS designers to make ARPGs
Y'know I personally never felt like I was out of combat too much in D3.
I do think that the the mindnumbing simplicity of Normal and Nightmare difficulty in D3 was completely underestimated by Blizzard. I don't think they got that one of the draws of D2 was that you could die if you weren't paying attention, even on normal difficulty. Haven't played PoE, but dying in TL2 is definitely possible (and even likely) on your first playthrough if you're playing on Veteran difficulty or higher. Personally that kind of life-or-death quick decision making is a big deal for me.
I love that in TL2 I often find myself at the end of a string of corpses, and when I stop to take a breather in town to sort through the loot I've picked up, I realize - right before I leave the town - that I actually don't remember the reason I'm out there killing stuff.
"Ok, I know I'm out here for... was it a sword? *Checks quest log * A cave, okay, so this cave should be over- what is that thing - oh god run, it'll kill me!"
(20 minutes later, at the other end of the zone...)
"Phew, that was intense... hey, I wonder what happened to that sword I was supposed to find out here..."
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EPT![[image loading]](http://static1.fjcdn.com/comments/Honestly+I+d+go+with+Torchlight+2+over+Diablo+3+_16b5bf4f5e2248cf08fa53218968e279.jpg)
