• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:20
CET 18:20
KST 02:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview1TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners11Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting12
Community News
[TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation10Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada4SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA8StarCraft, SC2, HotS, WC3, Returning to Blizzcon!45$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview [TLMC] Fall/Winter 2025 Ladder Map Rotation Mech is the composition that needs teleportation t Weekly Cups (Nov 3-9): Clem Conquers in Canada Craziest Micro Moments Of All Time?
Tourneys
RSL Revival: Season 3 Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BW General Discussion Terran 1:35 12 Gas Optimization BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO32 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO32 Group C - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta PvZ map balance How to stay on top of macro?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games? Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread EVE Corporation Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Dyadica Gospel – a Pulp No…
Hildegard
Coffee x Performance in Espo…
TrAiDoS
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1710 users

My Style of PvZ

Blogs > Mavvie
Post a Reply
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 19:51:46
September 19 2012 02:13 GMT
#1
Hey guys!

I feel like writing about how I play PvZ, and how I react to what I scout. I don't care for making a guide, especially as I'm too low a level really, but I'd like to know your thoughts on what I do! Top Diamond, but I've beaten masters Zergs at both ZvZ and PvZ; I know how to kill a Zerg

The opening
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard FFE. To clarify:
On maps with short rush distances (Yes, I'm looking at you, Ohana)
-15 nexus
-15 forge (resume probe production)
-17 pylon
-17 gateway

On regular maps (Daybreak, Cloud, etc)
-17 Nexus
-17 Forge
-17 Pylon (resume probe production)
-18 Gateway
-19 cannon
-20-22 double gas

Of course, 9 pylon -> scout to be safe vs 6 pools. On Entombed, if you don't scout him first then you can either throw down a 13 forge or have balls of steel like me and just 17 nexus anyway 8)

There's advantages to opening 13 forge every game. The best is that you can instantly win against hatch first, especially if he doesn't block his ramp. Take 2 probes and mass pylons -> mass cannons; his lings will be SO LATE that there will be nothing he can do. He actually won't be able to kill the cannons faster than you can make them, so it's actually a free win.


The Build
+ Show Spoiler +

I do a 4gate robo expand -> double gas twilight as a general midgame strategy.

I stay on the two gasses for a long time. I'm a bit torn on this part of the build. If my opening is good, I like to chrono out zealot/stalker and do some gateway pressure. This accomplishes three things:
1) The pressure, along with scouting no gas at natural, will often prompt an overreaction from Zerg. His counterswing is easily defended with a warp-in of four sentries or some zealot/sentry/immortal.
2) Establishes map control, so I can easily secure my third
3) Keeps me safer against 1 or 2 base all-ins.

As soon as you can afford it, throw down a robo. Should be around 6:30 off a Nexus first. I then throw down 3 more gateways, followed by a nexus+pylon. This can be tricky to do as you are also pressuring the Zerg with gateway units. Out of the robo, build TWO observers before starting immortals. The first one goes to his base to scout his tech choice, while the other will scout around your base, helping you split your army/react to mutas.

After throwing down 4 gates, start to warp in your third nexus. Immediately double gas and start a twilight council - blink and +2 are really important, because our goal is to hit a +3 colossus/stalker/sentry timing!


Scouting and Reacting
+ Show Spoiler +

Scouting is important all game long. Make sure that Zerg goes pool->hatch->hatch (3 hatch before gas basically), and continue to /aggressively/ probe scout to make sure he doesn't cancel anything. If a build catches you by surprise, you really fucked up. Probes, along with the zealot/stalkerstalker poke, should leave no surprises.

The first real scouting information you'll get in a standard game is with your observer. It should go straight to his main, then look at all his gas geysers, then return to find out what his lair tech choice is.

4 gas: Roach/ling all-in (honestly, Stephano-style roaches is really all-in). React by using careful sim-city at your third, and use that second observer to help split your army! Chrono out immortals like there's no tomorrow. If you keep your third, sentries, and immortals alive, you've basically won. You can never be too defensive with your forcefields. And sim-city. On a map like Ohana, you should create a bunch of chokes at your third using gateways.

6 gas: Some kind of lair play. It's imperative that you find out what his lair choice is, or else you're fucked.
Infestation pit: throw down colo tech and try to take a fourth using zealot/sentry/immortal, adding in some blink stalkers. I recommend non-stop chrono on your robo and try to push with 3 colossus around 14:00-15:00. If you secure your fourth, be really aggressive! Add in high templar, and feedback his infestors.

Mutas: Haha, good ol' mutas. All zergs hate them and all Protoss hate them even more. Fortunately, this build is set up /really/ well for anti-muta play. At my level, mutas hit around 12:00. By this time I can have 11 gateways of stalker production, blink, +2, and templar archives done. This is only if your observer scouts properly though. You should focus on walling off as much of your bases as you can, but do not limit movement between your bases. There's already guides written on how to play against mutas, so you should be familiar with it. You basically want a lot of gateways, blink stalkers, and ideally psi storm. If you are maxed with +3, archons, HT, zealots, and stalkers, you can't lose. Leave 1-2 HT in each mineral line, and warp in stalkers/cannons at home to prevent the basetrade. However, you don't need to attack until his hive finishes. Just turtle, try to expand, and soften his muta flock with your storms. Eventually, you can hit a pre-broodlord timing, or you can just take up to 5 bases and go archon/HT/carrier/mothership. Carriers have 12 range kind of.


Endgame strategies:
+ Show Spoiler +

There's two ways to end the game.
1) Hit a pre-broodlord timing with 3 colossi, +3, and a shitload of zealot/sentry/stalker/immortal. It doesn't matter what midgame he chose, this is your ideal goal. If he has less than 20 spines, you win for free. No joke. Watch out though, marines are good! (IT spam will DESTROY your army if he surrounds your army with the "egg-men". You can transition out of this timing if you take a fourth/fifth, and add on 4+ stargates + fleet bacon and HT tech and all that good lategame stuff.

2) Vortex/storm/archon/other awesome Protoss shit.
This is a lot harder to do. If you get an archon toilet off, you win. Not always. Generally, I recommend killing the Zerg through counterattacks and DT drops. You can even try carrier/mothership harass, a la Taeja vs a platinum zerg on stream. If you snipe his greater spire, you have up to 200 seconds to kill him. If you keep denying his expansions, you'll win no matter what. Aggressively trade stalkers/HT/archons for broodlords; he can't remax. It can't hurt to go up to 30+ gateways so you can instantly remax.

As Day[9] stated, if you can't beat broodlord/infestor....don't! Just run around his army and kill his base while he rages at you in chat


Thanks for reading, I'll be sure to add more content to this once I have time. I'm tired right now and will reply to comments/update this tomorrow. I have no replays, but I think I understand PvZ pretty well! There's just so much to convey that, holy shit, I think my hands will fall off before I've written half of what I want to.

*****
Getting back into sc2 O_o
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
September 19 2012 03:16 GMT
#2
this is generally what i do however i found some success on maps like ohana by going double robo and pushing at 4 collosus with 8 gates +2 attack and blink. Wil definatley try this out though seems well thought out thanks for the guide!
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
September 19 2012 03:18 GMT
#3
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13389 Posts
September 19 2012 03:23 GMT
#4
On September 19 2012 12:18 mizU wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?


There's a point in masters where all you play is diamonds and some masters. Once you regularly play people in masters who are close to rank 25+ I would peg it at mid masters. Its odd, but the difference between my play when I was in masters playing diamonds and when I was in masters never playing diamonds was pretty big. I do not yet play any GM level players so I would peg myself for example as mid masters IF I were to make any distinction at all.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
September 19 2012 03:27 GMT
#5
On September 19 2012 12:18 mizU wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?


Match making rating. Low masters play vs diamonds a lot. Mid masters play vs other masters only. High masters play vs grand masters a lot.
That's how I think of it, anyway.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
September 19 2012 19:50 GMT
#6
I'm about to edit out the mid masters part, because it's really not the goal of the discussion. I do agree that everyone uses the terms with ambiguity, and I guess I sort of did too lol. I remember beating a guy with ~900 points, >top 25. My MMR was that so that almosy every game was against a master league player; sc2gears plugin read 1950 (2000 is promo line) before it was patched. I then lost to every cheese in the game (yay new ladder season), and my mmr's increasing again. Idk, don't have much time to play. PvZ is ridiculously easy at my level though. Just aggressively scout all game and you'll be fine.

To answer your question: both points and MMR, but usually you can't get MMR so I go by points.
Getting back into sc2 O_o
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 7h 40m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
mouzHeroMarine 400
TKL 267
SteadfastSC 138
BRAT_OK 96
ProTech78
MindelVK 29
UpATreeSC 21
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3873
Sea 523
firebathero 462
Aegong 131
Soulkey 128
Dewaltoss 85
Dota 2
Gorgc4526
qojqva2485
singsing2038
Dendi923
Counter-Strike
oskar131
Other Games
hiko545
Lowko393
Hui .349
ceh9281
DeMusliM226
Fuzer 194
Liquid`VortiX162
Sick124
QueenE59
Trikslyr56
fpsfer 2
Organizations
Other Games
Algost 6
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hinosc 15
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1944
• WagamamaTV384
• masondota2254
• lizZardDota244
League of Legends
• Nemesis3044
• TFBlade827
Other Games
• Shiphtur203
Upcoming Events
PiGosaur Cup
7h 40m
RSL Revival
16h 40m
Classic vs Creator
Cure vs TriGGeR
Kung Fu Cup
18h 40m
GuMiho vs MaNa
herO vs ShoWTimE
Classic vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings
1d 16h
RSL Revival
1d 16h
herO vs Gerald
ByuN vs SHIN
Kung Fu Cup
1d 18h
Cure vs Reynor
IPSL
1d 23h
ZZZero vs rasowy
Napoleon vs KameZerg
BSL 21
2 days
Tarson vs Julia
Doodle vs OldBoy
eOnzErG vs WolFix
StRyKeR vs Aeternum
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs sOs
Maru vs Ryung
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
BSL 21
3 days
JDConan vs Semih
Dragon vs Dienmax
Tech vs NewOcean
TerrOr vs Artosis
IPSL
3 days
Dewalt vs WolFix
eOnzErG vs Bonyth
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Korean Royale
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-11-07
Stellar Fest: Constellation Cup
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
RSL Revival: Season 3
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual

Upcoming

SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.