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My Style of PvZ

Blogs > Mavvie
Post a Reply
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 19:51:46
September 19 2012 02:13 GMT
#1
Hey guys!

I feel like writing about how I play PvZ, and how I react to what I scout. I don't care for making a guide, especially as I'm too low a level really, but I'd like to know your thoughts on what I do! Top Diamond, but I've beaten masters Zergs at both ZvZ and PvZ; I know how to kill a Zerg

The opening
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard FFE. To clarify:
On maps with short rush distances (Yes, I'm looking at you, Ohana)
-15 nexus
-15 forge (resume probe production)
-17 pylon
-17 gateway

On regular maps (Daybreak, Cloud, etc)
-17 Nexus
-17 Forge
-17 Pylon (resume probe production)
-18 Gateway
-19 cannon
-20-22 double gas

Of course, 9 pylon -> scout to be safe vs 6 pools. On Entombed, if you don't scout him first then you can either throw down a 13 forge or have balls of steel like me and just 17 nexus anyway 8)

There's advantages to opening 13 forge every game. The best is that you can instantly win against hatch first, especially if he doesn't block his ramp. Take 2 probes and mass pylons -> mass cannons; his lings will be SO LATE that there will be nothing he can do. He actually won't be able to kill the cannons faster than you can make them, so it's actually a free win.


The Build
+ Show Spoiler +

I do a 4gate robo expand -> double gas twilight as a general midgame strategy.

I stay on the two gasses for a long time. I'm a bit torn on this part of the build. If my opening is good, I like to chrono out zealot/stalker and do some gateway pressure. This accomplishes three things:
1) The pressure, along with scouting no gas at natural, will often prompt an overreaction from Zerg. His counterswing is easily defended with a warp-in of four sentries or some zealot/sentry/immortal.
2) Establishes map control, so I can easily secure my third
3) Keeps me safer against 1 or 2 base all-ins.

As soon as you can afford it, throw down a robo. Should be around 6:30 off a Nexus first. I then throw down 3 more gateways, followed by a nexus+pylon. This can be tricky to do as you are also pressuring the Zerg with gateway units. Out of the robo, build TWO observers before starting immortals. The first one goes to his base to scout his tech choice, while the other will scout around your base, helping you split your army/react to mutas.

After throwing down 4 gates, start to warp in your third nexus. Immediately double gas and start a twilight council - blink and +2 are really important, because our goal is to hit a +3 colossus/stalker/sentry timing!


Scouting and Reacting
+ Show Spoiler +

Scouting is important all game long. Make sure that Zerg goes pool->hatch->hatch (3 hatch before gas basically), and continue to /aggressively/ probe scout to make sure he doesn't cancel anything. If a build catches you by surprise, you really fucked up. Probes, along with the zealot/stalkerstalker poke, should leave no surprises.

The first real scouting information you'll get in a standard game is with your observer. It should go straight to his main, then look at all his gas geysers, then return to find out what his lair tech choice is.

4 gas: Roach/ling all-in (honestly, Stephano-style roaches is really all-in). React by using careful sim-city at your third, and use that second observer to help split your army! Chrono out immortals like there's no tomorrow. If you keep your third, sentries, and immortals alive, you've basically won. You can never be too defensive with your forcefields. And sim-city. On a map like Ohana, you should create a bunch of chokes at your third using gateways.

6 gas: Some kind of lair play. It's imperative that you find out what his lair choice is, or else you're fucked.
Infestation pit: throw down colo tech and try to take a fourth using zealot/sentry/immortal, adding in some blink stalkers. I recommend non-stop chrono on your robo and try to push with 3 colossus around 14:00-15:00. If you secure your fourth, be really aggressive! Add in high templar, and feedback his infestors.

Mutas: Haha, good ol' mutas. All zergs hate them and all Protoss hate them even more. Fortunately, this build is set up /really/ well for anti-muta play. At my level, mutas hit around 12:00. By this time I can have 11 gateways of stalker production, blink, +2, and templar archives done. This is only if your observer scouts properly though. You should focus on walling off as much of your bases as you can, but do not limit movement between your bases. There's already guides written on how to play against mutas, so you should be familiar with it. You basically want a lot of gateways, blink stalkers, and ideally psi storm. If you are maxed with +3, archons, HT, zealots, and stalkers, you can't lose. Leave 1-2 HT in each mineral line, and warp in stalkers/cannons at home to prevent the basetrade. However, you don't need to attack until his hive finishes. Just turtle, try to expand, and soften his muta flock with your storms. Eventually, you can hit a pre-broodlord timing, or you can just take up to 5 bases and go archon/HT/carrier/mothership. Carriers have 12 range kind of.


Endgame strategies:
+ Show Spoiler +

There's two ways to end the game.
1) Hit a pre-broodlord timing with 3 colossi, +3, and a shitload of zealot/sentry/stalker/immortal. It doesn't matter what midgame he chose, this is your ideal goal. If he has less than 20 spines, you win for free. No joke. Watch out though, marines are good! (IT spam will DESTROY your army if he surrounds your army with the "egg-men". You can transition out of this timing if you take a fourth/fifth, and add on 4+ stargates + fleet bacon and HT tech and all that good lategame stuff.

2) Vortex/storm/archon/other awesome Protoss shit.
This is a lot harder to do. If you get an archon toilet off, you win. Not always. Generally, I recommend killing the Zerg through counterattacks and DT drops. You can even try carrier/mothership harass, a la Taeja vs a platinum zerg on stream. If you snipe his greater spire, you have up to 200 seconds to kill him. If you keep denying his expansions, you'll win no matter what. Aggressively trade stalkers/HT/archons for broodlords; he can't remax. It can't hurt to go up to 30+ gateways so you can instantly remax.

As Day[9] stated, if you can't beat broodlord/infestor....don't! Just run around his army and kill his base while he rages at you in chat


Thanks for reading, I'll be sure to add more content to this once I have time. I'm tired right now and will reply to comments/update this tomorrow. I have no replays, but I think I understand PvZ pretty well! There's just so much to convey that, holy shit, I think my hands will fall off before I've written half of what I want to.

*****
Getting back into sc2 O_o
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
September 19 2012 03:16 GMT
#2
this is generally what i do however i found some success on maps like ohana by going double robo and pushing at 4 collosus with 8 gates +2 attack and blink. Wil definatley try this out though seems well thought out thanks for the guide!
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
September 19 2012 03:18 GMT
#3
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13431 Posts
September 19 2012 03:23 GMT
#4
On September 19 2012 12:18 mizU wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?


There's a point in masters where all you play is diamonds and some masters. Once you regularly play people in masters who are close to rank 25+ I would peg it at mid masters. Its odd, but the difference between my play when I was in masters playing diamonds and when I was in masters never playing diamonds was pretty big. I do not yet play any GM level players so I would peg myself for example as mid masters IF I were to make any distinction at all.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
September 19 2012 03:27 GMT
#5
On September 19 2012 12:18 mizU wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?


Match making rating. Low masters play vs diamonds a lot. Mid masters play vs other masters only. High masters play vs grand masters a lot.
That's how I think of it, anyway.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
September 19 2012 19:50 GMT
#6
I'm about to edit out the mid masters part, because it's really not the goal of the discussion. I do agree that everyone uses the terms with ambiguity, and I guess I sort of did too lol. I remember beating a guy with ~900 points, >top 25. My MMR was that so that almosy every game was against a master league player; sc2gears plugin read 1950 (2000 is promo line) before it was patched. I then lost to every cheese in the game (yay new ladder season), and my mmr's increasing again. Idk, don't have much time to play. PvZ is ridiculously easy at my level though. Just aggressively scout all game and you'll be fine.

To answer your question: both points and MMR, but usually you can't get MMR so I go by points.
Getting back into sc2 O_o
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