• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 00:40
CEST 06:40
KST 13:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview8[ASL21] Finals Preview: Two Legacies21
Community News
ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo16Weekly Cups (June 8-14): Clem and Solar double, PTR tested0RSL: S6 Finals played at BlizzCon 202611Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)10[BSL22] Non-Korean Championship from 13 to 28 June4
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft II 5.0.16 PTR Patch Notes may 26th Daily SC2 Player Grid - feedback wanted J188 – Nhà Cái Cá Cược Trực Tuyến Đẳng Cấp Châu Á Code S Season 2 (2026) - RO8 Preview TL Poll: How do you feel about the 5.0.16 PTR balance changes?
Tourneys
GSL CK #4 20-21th June Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Crank Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 530 One For All The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 529 Opportunities Unleashed Mutation # 528 Infection Detected
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Battle cruiser feet vs Carrier fleet Fact based Zerg Upgrade Tier List vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Data needed
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Relatively freeroll strategies Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia {D-2} Late to making 20.06.2026 memorable [p]94718
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread [H]Internet/Gaming Cafe Tips and Tricks The Games Industry And ATVI UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club! The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread Facing Challenges in Mobile App Development
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How To Predict Tilt in Espor…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
Why RTS gamers make better f…
gosubay
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 8336 users

My Style of PvZ

Blogs > Mavvie
Post a Reply
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-19 19:51:46
September 19 2012 02:13 GMT
#1
Hey guys!

I feel like writing about how I play PvZ, and how I react to what I scout. I don't care for making a guide, especially as I'm too low a level really, but I'd like to know your thoughts on what I do! Top Diamond, but I've beaten masters Zergs at both ZvZ and PvZ; I know how to kill a Zerg

The opening
+ Show Spoiler +

Standard FFE. To clarify:
On maps with short rush distances (Yes, I'm looking at you, Ohana)
-15 nexus
-15 forge (resume probe production)
-17 pylon
-17 gateway

On regular maps (Daybreak, Cloud, etc)
-17 Nexus
-17 Forge
-17 Pylon (resume probe production)
-18 Gateway
-19 cannon
-20-22 double gas

Of course, 9 pylon -> scout to be safe vs 6 pools. On Entombed, if you don't scout him first then you can either throw down a 13 forge or have balls of steel like me and just 17 nexus anyway 8)

There's advantages to opening 13 forge every game. The best is that you can instantly win against hatch first, especially if he doesn't block his ramp. Take 2 probes and mass pylons -> mass cannons; his lings will be SO LATE that there will be nothing he can do. He actually won't be able to kill the cannons faster than you can make them, so it's actually a free win.


The Build
+ Show Spoiler +

I do a 4gate robo expand -> double gas twilight as a general midgame strategy.

I stay on the two gasses for a long time. I'm a bit torn on this part of the build. If my opening is good, I like to chrono out zealot/stalker and do some gateway pressure. This accomplishes three things:
1) The pressure, along with scouting no gas at natural, will often prompt an overreaction from Zerg. His counterswing is easily defended with a warp-in of four sentries or some zealot/sentry/immortal.
2) Establishes map control, so I can easily secure my third
3) Keeps me safer against 1 or 2 base all-ins.

As soon as you can afford it, throw down a robo. Should be around 6:30 off a Nexus first. I then throw down 3 more gateways, followed by a nexus+pylon. This can be tricky to do as you are also pressuring the Zerg with gateway units. Out of the robo, build TWO observers before starting immortals. The first one goes to his base to scout his tech choice, while the other will scout around your base, helping you split your army/react to mutas.

After throwing down 4 gates, start to warp in your third nexus. Immediately double gas and start a twilight council - blink and +2 are really important, because our goal is to hit a +3 colossus/stalker/sentry timing!


Scouting and Reacting
+ Show Spoiler +

Scouting is important all game long. Make sure that Zerg goes pool->hatch->hatch (3 hatch before gas basically), and continue to /aggressively/ probe scout to make sure he doesn't cancel anything. If a build catches you by surprise, you really fucked up. Probes, along with the zealot/stalkerstalker poke, should leave no surprises.

The first real scouting information you'll get in a standard game is with your observer. It should go straight to his main, then look at all his gas geysers, then return to find out what his lair tech choice is.

4 gas: Roach/ling all-in (honestly, Stephano-style roaches is really all-in). React by using careful sim-city at your third, and use that second observer to help split your army! Chrono out immortals like there's no tomorrow. If you keep your third, sentries, and immortals alive, you've basically won. You can never be too defensive with your forcefields. And sim-city. On a map like Ohana, you should create a bunch of chokes at your third using gateways.

6 gas: Some kind of lair play. It's imperative that you find out what his lair choice is, or else you're fucked.
Infestation pit: throw down colo tech and try to take a fourth using zealot/sentry/immortal, adding in some blink stalkers. I recommend non-stop chrono on your robo and try to push with 3 colossus around 14:00-15:00. If you secure your fourth, be really aggressive! Add in high templar, and feedback his infestors.

Mutas: Haha, good ol' mutas. All zergs hate them and all Protoss hate them even more. Fortunately, this build is set up /really/ well for anti-muta play. At my level, mutas hit around 12:00. By this time I can have 11 gateways of stalker production, blink, +2, and templar archives done. This is only if your observer scouts properly though. You should focus on walling off as much of your bases as you can, but do not limit movement between your bases. There's already guides written on how to play against mutas, so you should be familiar with it. You basically want a lot of gateways, blink stalkers, and ideally psi storm. If you are maxed with +3, archons, HT, zealots, and stalkers, you can't lose. Leave 1-2 HT in each mineral line, and warp in stalkers/cannons at home to prevent the basetrade. However, you don't need to attack until his hive finishes. Just turtle, try to expand, and soften his muta flock with your storms. Eventually, you can hit a pre-broodlord timing, or you can just take up to 5 bases and go archon/HT/carrier/mothership. Carriers have 12 range kind of.


Endgame strategies:
+ Show Spoiler +

There's two ways to end the game.
1) Hit a pre-broodlord timing with 3 colossi, +3, and a shitload of zealot/sentry/stalker/immortal. It doesn't matter what midgame he chose, this is your ideal goal. If he has less than 20 spines, you win for free. No joke. Watch out though, marines are good! (IT spam will DESTROY your army if he surrounds your army with the "egg-men". You can transition out of this timing if you take a fourth/fifth, and add on 4+ stargates + fleet bacon and HT tech and all that good lategame stuff.

2) Vortex/storm/archon/other awesome Protoss shit.
This is a lot harder to do. If you get an archon toilet off, you win. Not always. Generally, I recommend killing the Zerg through counterattacks and DT drops. You can even try carrier/mothership harass, a la Taeja vs a platinum zerg on stream. If you snipe his greater spire, you have up to 200 seconds to kill him. If you keep denying his expansions, you'll win no matter what. Aggressively trade stalkers/HT/archons for broodlords; he can't remax. It can't hurt to go up to 30+ gateways so you can instantly remax.

As Day[9] stated, if you can't beat broodlord/infestor....don't! Just run around his army and kill his base while he rages at you in chat


Thanks for reading, I'll be sure to add more content to this once I have time. I'm tired right now and will reply to comments/update this tomorrow. I have no replays, but I think I understand PvZ pretty well! There's just so much to convey that, holy shit, I think my hands will fall off before I've written half of what I want to.

*****
Getting back into sc2 O_o
P7GAB
Profile Joined June 2012
Canada486 Posts
September 19 2012 03:16 GMT
#2
this is generally what i do however i found some success on maps like ohana by going double robo and pushing at 4 collosus with 8 gates +2 attack and blink. Wil definatley try this out though seems well thought out thanks for the guide!
mizU
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States12125 Posts
September 19 2012 03:18 GMT
#3
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?
if happy ever afters did exist <3 @watamizu_
ZeromuS
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada13408 Posts
September 19 2012 03:23 GMT
#4
On September 19 2012 12:18 mizU wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?


There's a point in masters where all you play is diamonds and some masters. Once you regularly play people in masters who are close to rank 25+ I would peg it at mid masters. Its odd, but the difference between my play when I was in masters playing diamonds and when I was in masters never playing diamonds was pretty big. I do not yet play any GM level players so I would peg myself for example as mid masters IF I were to make any distinction at all.
StrategyRTS forever | @ZeromuS_plays | www.twitch.tv/Zeromus_
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
September 19 2012 03:27 GMT
#5
On September 19 2012 12:18 mizU wrote:
I'm not trying to be a dick here, in just curious because I see this a lot.
In your mind, what defines a mid master from low or high? Points?


Match making rating. Low masters play vs diamonds a lot. Mid masters play vs other masters only. High masters play vs grand masters a lot.
That's how I think of it, anyway.
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Mavvie
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
Canada923 Posts
September 19 2012 19:50 GMT
#6
I'm about to edit out the mid masters part, because it's really not the goal of the discussion. I do agree that everyone uses the terms with ambiguity, and I guess I sort of did too lol. I remember beating a guy with ~900 points, >top 25. My MMR was that so that almosy every game was against a master league player; sc2gears plugin read 1950 (2000 is promo line) before it was patched. I then lost to every cheese in the game (yay new ladder season), and my mmr's increasing again. Idk, don't have much time to play. PvZ is ridiculously easy at my level though. Just aggressively scout all game and you'll be fine.

To answer your question: both points and MMR, but usually you can't get MMR so I go by points.
Getting back into sc2 O_o
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 6h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 191
StarCraft: Brood War
Mind 201
NaDa 49
Noble 18
Icarus 6
Dota 2
LuMiX0
League of Legends
JimRising 662
Counter-Strike
summit1g11418
Other Games
WinterStarcraft633
ViBE177
Nina42
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream3112
Other Games
gamesdonequick1135
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH159
• practicex 13
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 31
• Diggity2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Lourlo1302
• Stunt359
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Spring Champion…
6h 20m
GSL
7h 20m
Maru vs Reynor
Lambo vs Solar
IPSL
11h 20m
Hawk vs Julia
Patches Events
12h 20m
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
14h 20m
Dewalt vs Messiah
Bonyth vs Mihu
TerrOr vs XuanXuan
eOnzErG vs Messiah
Jaystar vs Mihu
Dewalt vs XuanXuan
Bonyth vs TerrOr
Replay Cast
19h 20m
WardiTV Weekly
1d 6h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 11h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Douyu Cup 2020
4 days
Oliveira vs Trap
Jieshi vs XY
soO vs FanTaSy
TY vs Coffee
Douyu Cup 2020
5 days
Neeb vs Impact
MacSed vs Cyan
Scarlett vs Kelazhur
INnoVation vs Dear
Douyu Cup 2020
6 days
Maestros of the Game
6 days
herO vs Classic
Maru vs Serral
BSL22 NKC (BSL vs China)
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-06-19
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Heroes Pulsing #2

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
CSCL: Masked Kings S4
YSL S3
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSL Season 21: Qualifier 1
SCTL 2026 Spring
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
Murky Cup 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026

Upcoming

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
HSC XXIX
Douyu Cup 2026
BCC 2026
Light HT
Heroes Pulsing #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.