• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 20:00
CET 01:00
KST 09:00
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros3[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win52025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" DreamHack Open 2013 revealed
Tourneys
Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $3,500 WardiTV Korean Royale S4
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ladder Map Matchup Stats
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
KPDH "Golden" as Squid Game…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1571 users

[HotS] The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - Page 4

Blogs > Plexa
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
rotinegg
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
United States1719 Posts
September 06 2012 09:06 GMT
#61
chances of getting HotS went from 0 to -1, not because the game looks terrible but largely due to how little certain units the large majority of fans thought would be boring/gimmicky have changed.

thanks for the great write-up, 5 stars. no stars for you blizzard.
Translator
MCDayC
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom14464 Posts
September 06 2012 09:15 GMT
#62
Ah, so you'd agree that the widow mine at least has potential in its current form, but just doesn't feel substantial enough right now?
So basically the inverse of the war hound?
VERY FRAGILE, LIKE A BABY PANDA EGG
DougJDempsey
Profile Joined April 2010
747 Posts
September 06 2012 09:37 GMT
#63
by your description of the oracle i take it you now know how terrans feel when people ask them to get ravens?(takes forever to get energy and cost 200 gas)
i agree with your points on the tempest tho, it gets horribly crushed by vikings when the costs are equal when carriers would have a much better chance trading efficently with them.
Sapphire.lux
Profile Joined July 2010
Romania2620 Posts
September 06 2012 09:43 GMT
#64
Agree with everything apart from the mine being "bad". It might not be balanced in the right way right now, but the design is great. IMO it costs to much and is to supply heavy but this is easy to fix, if they want to.

Mech looks like shit at this point. The worhoud is not a SC unit let alone a mech unit...like rotinegg said though, Blizzard will not make any major changes, like they've proved it in WOL with the Colossus, no matter how big the community outcry.

Unless something extraordinary happens like Blizzard listnening to the community, HOTS is not for me.
Head Coach Park: "They should buff tanks!"
B.I.G.
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
3251 Posts
September 06 2012 09:48 GMT
#65
So just to be clear, tempest completely replaces carrier? No tempest AND carrier?
marttorn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
Norway5211 Posts
September 06 2012 09:55 GMT
#66
I wasn't particularly planning on playing HotS before, but this solidified my decision. Thanks for the great write-up Plexa.
memes are a dish best served dank
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
September 06 2012 10:06 GMT
#67
Right from the get-go I was skeptical about the Oracle. That stupid line: "There's fifty ways for a worker to die in SC2, we have a unit that doesn't kill them but still can harass". Didn't sit well with me from the beginning. From what I've seen it's completely useless, good blog.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Isualin
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany1903 Posts
September 06 2012 10:09 GMT
#68
i absolutely agree on tempest. the almighty protoss, the f***ing firstborn cant have tempest as their flagship. they really should have worked on carrier
| INnoVation | The literal god TY | ByuNjwa | LRSL when? |
Paljas
Profile Joined October 2011
Germany6926 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 14:03:44
September 06 2012 10:47 GMT
#69
the problem with the worker count thing is not that is makes the game easier but that it
1. looks ugly, and
2. this is only the first step. it wont stop. the full screen will be filled with stupid tabs and numbers.
oh, you dont know how many units you are producing right now? every player has a production tab on his screen. you want to know how many stalkers and zealots you have? you dont have to count anymore, your unit count will be shown right in the middle of your scrren. whats your income? its shown at the top right of your screen. you want to know your amount of production facilities? never count again, the last free screen fill be filled by this number.

thats the future, the whole game will just be numbers.
TL+ Member
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-06 11:03:12
September 06 2012 10:58 GMT
#70
I'm quite sure I won't get the game when it comes out.
Pretty sure as well that If they don't do a complete rework of protoss in the last expansion,the game is going to die within that year.
Cackle™
guN-viCe
Profile Joined March 2010
United States687 Posts
September 06 2012 11:10 GMT
#71
I saw ForGG using mines effectively.

He rushed with some MM early game and was planting mines at the opponents ramp while getting free shots on the nexus. He would run the mines right next to the protoss units and detonate them. Both him and his opponent were lol'ing at how much damage the mines were doing.

IMO, swarm host is lame. I don't understand how people like it so much. Seems hard to balance and is yawn-worthy.
Never give up, never surrender!!! ~~ Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence -Sagan
Greem
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
730 Posts
September 06 2012 11:33 GMT
#72
Nice inside look into beta, i've been watching streams since i dont have any beta, and observing stuff tells me the same story.

ould a lurker be better? Yes, it would. The reason for that isn't that I'm a BW elitist, rather that the swarm host loses its utility in longer games. While I can't speak for ZvT, in ZvP once the Colossus count gets sufficiently high there is nothing that 123123123 swarm hosts can do because locusts just get vaporized in an instant. Then since the hosts are still on cool down, its just a matter of time before they are killed off. Lurkers have prolonged utility because they don't rely on a weak proxy to do damage, their spines aren't going anywhere until the lurker is killed whereas if the locusts die then the host is just waiting to die. Moreover, lurkers fulfill a defensive role significantly better than swarm hosts, which a more of an aggressive unit.


I agree, while swarm host is nice in mid game, it adds nothing to late game. I really hope, they put lurkers back. Zerg needs the defense they provide , and more late game utility .

youtube.com/N0rthernL1ght
Insurrectionist
Profile Joined February 2011
Norway141 Posts
September 06 2012 11:36 GMT
#73
Watching streams, I've found the #1 reason why I think Warhounds are great against immortals - they can kite them. Warhounds are SIGNIFICANTLY faster than immortals, and haywire missiles are basically tailor-made for kiting, with a long CD (for an attack) and high damage. I especially remember watching Gretorp playing chargelot/archon/immortal against Drewbie on NASL's channel - during mid-game engagements, Gretorp's immortals didn't get to fire at all, while his zealots only got hits in when charging (still slower than warhounds with charge upgrade) and the archons didn't get shots off either since the zealots blocked them. And once the zealots died and it was time to retreat, the immortals got completely demolished since they're so much slower than warhounds. In a straight up a-move vs a-move the immortal might do fine, but if there's any room to kite, warhounds seem really good against them.


Also, I saw a lot of protoss loving energize early-game, being able to chrono both probes and any and all upgrades continuously, and still having some energy spare for production in emergency situations.
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19295 Posts
September 06 2012 12:04 GMT
#74
Great write up.

Did you forget to talk about Battlecruiser boost or was that taken out?
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33470 Posts
September 06 2012 12:34 GMT
#75
widow mine seems like something to wait on

it's a very APM intensive unit with a lot of versatility

people used to think vultures suck for like two years, I think we'll be learning a lot more about these mines with time.
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
OptimusYale
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)1005 Posts
September 06 2012 12:35 GMT
#76
Idea for the Dark shrine, have it open up another unit in a different building, and allow it to research amulet for templar. I mean, that would make the building useful at least
Superouman
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
France2195 Posts
September 06 2012 13:12 GMT
#77
ZvZ swarm host wars, i love dem
Search "[SO]" on B.net to find all my maps ||| Cloud Kingdom / Turbo Cruise '84 / Bone Temple / Eternal Empire / Zen / Purity and Industry / Golden Wall / Fortitude / Beckett Industries / Waterfall
Saechiis
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Netherlands4989 Posts
September 06 2012 13:23 GMT
#78
Only thing I really disagree with is the speed hydra, it seemed to really make the hydra much more of an interesting hit and run unit (I saw Ret and Sheth use them quite succesfully vs Protoss). In combination with Vipers they might even deal with Colossi okay.
I think esports is pretty nice.
DKR
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom622 Posts
September 06 2012 14:00 GMT
#79
I'd like to see the carrier retained in some form, It feels like it needs something to happen to the other races to make it work. BC is great against siege lines, end game Z and end game P with ghosts; it's a unit which has really thrived in the latter parts of WoL. Could the carrier do the same? maybe... I mean if T meched then the Carrier could potentially be awesome.
"1 base. Cheese man." - MKP. "[MVP] is not stylistic, his style is winning, which is the style you want to have." - Artosis
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
September 06 2012 14:24 GMT
#80
Agree with all except the widow mine, I would put that in the good section. It is easily the most fun unit, has massive utility, and with creativity they can do anything. Like putting them behind mineral patches on the high ground: they leap to the workers to harass from above. or defending YOUR mineral line from things like muta harass.
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
23:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D1
BASILISK vs Shopify Rebellion
Team Liquid vs Team Falcon
CranKy Ducklings128
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SpeCial 99
CosmosSc2 44
Nina 28
StarCraft: Brood War
Barracks 3718
Artosis 702
NaDa 22
Dota 2
monkeys_forever460
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe132
Other Games
summit1g7963
tarik_tv4997
Grubby2685
Day[9].tv410
C9.Mang0306
Liquid`Hasu206
Pyrionflax164
Maynarde132
JuggernautJason35
Mew2King34
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 21 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• RyuSc2 68
• Hupsaiya 48
• davetesta13
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• mYiSmile137
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21711
League of Legends
• Doublelift3362
Other Games
• imaqtpie926
• Scarra872
• Day9tv410
• WagamamaTV328
• Shiphtur126
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
9h 1m
WardiTV Invitational
12h 1m
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
Epic.LAN
12h 1m
CrankTV Team League
13h 1m
BASILISK vs Team Liquid
Epic.LAN
1d 12h
BSL Team A[vengers]
1d 14h
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
1d 19h
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.