EPT[HotS] The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - Page 7
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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ShiroKaisen
United States1082 Posts
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:25 Ideas wrote: now terran uses a boring "mech" ball instead that functions exactly the same as a bio-ball but is slightly slower and has slightly more health. this is only blizzard fault | ||
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Kal_rA
United States2925 Posts
On September 06 2012 13:03 heyoka wrote: Okay after reading this I will concede that the worker count thing is okay. But I still think it is ugly as all hell. They should put it on the bottom like where you could see the number of workers on gas before. Def ugly. Makes game cluttered. No where as ugly as the warhound though hahha | ||
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coZy
United States65 Posts
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YODA_
593 Posts
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Asturas
Finland587 Posts
Just one thing I do not agree with: On September 06 2012 12:34 Plexa wrote: The result is that immortals suck against mech. Blizzard, please fix this. No Blizzard, don't you dare "fixing"/changing it! Finally it is possible to play mech vs P. Ever since Thors have energy and therefor it can be killed/weakened with Feedback, playing mech was very... suicidal? I do agree that Warhounds are at the moment overpowered but for the love of... please let us play vs P with something else then MMMG all day long. Let us play mech! Warhound cannot be killed with Feedback and by Immortals - I love it! | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
So far, the battle hellion seems like a retarded idea. Like you said, it's boring. But that 'boring' thing far outweighs the positives. Battle Hellion + Warhound is making Mech into Bio, but minus all the good stuff about bio (IE, drops, splits, awesome kiting, etc.) Meanwhile, I really like the energize ability. It's a new macro mechanic that involves thought. Not only does it increase the mechanical skillcap, it allows for lots of cool plays that we haven't even thought of yet. imagine a storm timing attack based off the energize timing on the templar, or something. Like you, I really love the swarm host. I think it provides a lot of aggressive potential to mid game zerg. It'll make vZ games way more fun, helping to remove the garbage infestor broodlord style that all Z games end up reaching. I'm very unhappy with the display things/ez mode, but I'm hesitant to discuss it because Blizz has said that chances are they're not going into the game. I like the oracle's detection/scouting, helps you delay robo a bit longer, while i feel entomb is just gimmicky. Like others have said, you shouldn't make units with such pre planned niches Hydra speed seems awesome. Hydras do such great dps, now with speed, you'll be able to use them more micro intensively, almost like marines, but not as multipurpose Widow mine seems legit tbh. Maybe buff the splash and nerf the single target, but then it seems a bit like a giant burrowed baneling. I'm definitely a fan though, I feel like it's a move towards smart, positional play Also tempest is dumb the rest I pretty much agree with you | ||
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UndoneJin
United States438 Posts
Great writeup, +1  | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 07 2012 06:32 aRyuujin wrote: And then you realise that 'storm timing attacks' don't exist because of their incredible cost. It's a super niche spell that won't see competitive use outside of maybe 1 or 2 games (out of 1000s). Meanwhile, I really like the energize ability. It's a new macro mechanic that involves thought. Not only does it increase the mechanical skillcap, it allows for lots of cool plays that we haven't even thought of yet. imagine a storm timing attack based off the energize timing on the templar, or something. Hydra speed seems awesome. Hydras do such great dps, now with speed, you'll be able to use them more micro intensively, almost like marines, but not as multipurpose But you're essentially getting an upgrade for expensive marines at hive tech. It's far too late. Maybe if you pushed it to lair tech it would be a lot better. Push the swarm host to hive tech and give hydras speed, but buff hosts in return. I could be down for that.Widow mine seems legit tbh. Maybe buff the splash and nerf the single target, but then it seems a bit like a giant burrowed baneling. I'm definitely a fan though, I feel like it's a move towards smart, positional play I'll be writing up some BRs today which illustrate that no, widow mines actually suck atm. Had a game against white-ra earlier using a purifier timing push, worked amazingly well. Doesn't bode well for the moving mothership core. | ||
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archonOOid
1983 Posts
Energize is just a gimmick ability. There isn't any real utility for it. Chrage a nexus? This quote triggered me to write this post aside from an otherwise great OP i felt quote had some flaws. First off the initial spelling mistake takes away your sincerity and the content seems so dismissive. After watching several protoss streams I've noticed that energize does have utility. Powering the under powered oracle's entomb ability to regain energy and continue the harassment even more. It should work with phoenix too but I've never seen it and so it's only theorycrafting. One thing that it's really useful is against terran when your warping a couple of high templars to instant cause terror over the terran army with storms. | ||
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FortuneSyn
1826 Posts
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Skyro
United States1823 Posts
On September 06 2012 13:50 Plexa wrote: Yeah I get that, but to be that seems like a bad design decision. But it was the same way in BW with no detection on the stargate, yet BW is universally loved. The real problem isn't the lack of detection, it is that stargate units are badly designed in general. The only time a stargate opening is seen in pro level play is simply used as a transition in PvZ, but really that has more to do with zerg's horrendous lack of AA early game than anything else. IMO the Phoenix should be the de-facto air-to-air unit, and the VR should be air-to-ground. I think the Oracle, when looking at it in a vacuum seems pretty good, but on the stargate? Phoenix can already harass and scout pretty well. I think they should really look at fleshing out the Stargate to give Protoss some more options in the mid and late game. | ||
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Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On September 07 2012 07:29 archonOOid wrote: This quote triggered me to write this post aside from an otherwise great OP i felt quote had some flaws. First off the initial spelling mistake takes away your sincerity and the content seems so dismissive. After watching several protoss streams I've noticed that energize does have utility. Powering the under powered oracle's entomb ability to regain energy and continue the harassment even more. It should work with phoenix too but I've never seen it and so it's only theorycrafting. One thing that it's really useful is against terran when your warping a couple of high templars to instant cause terror over the terran army with storms. Yes energize/entomb combo works but its not really effective. Oracles are too expensive to justify it's spell The entomb/energize combo at lower levels will be really powerful, but at higher levels its just an annoyance. If you're not killing workers you're not doing any meaningful damage, its just a stall. On September 07 2012 07:30 FortuneSyn wrote: You are way too confident in your own conclusions. The beta has barely been out for 2 days. Look for the positive not the negative. Good things are good, and have been stated as such. Bad things are bad and need attention. It's a beta, and the quicker we get rid of the stupid stuff the better (else it'll make it through to release.. and honestly it looks like most of this stuff will go through unless there is a large vocal reaction). On September 07 2012 07:43 Skyro wrote: I don't understand your train of thought on why Entomb is hard to balance. Why would reducing the cost of Oracles be imbalanced? Hellions are dirt cheap. They are great at harassment. Harassment that is potentially game ending, as seen numerous times on the pro level. But it was the same way in BW with no detection on the stargate, yet BW is universally loved. The real problem isn't the lack of detection, it is that stargate units are badly designed in general. The only time a stargate opening is seen in pro level play is simply used as a transition in PvZ, but really that has more to do with zerg's horrendous lack of AA early game than anything else. IMO the Phoenix should be the de-facto air-to-air unit, and the VR should be air-to-ground. I think the Oracle, when looking at it in a vacuum seems pretty good, but on the stargate? Phoenix can already harass and scout pretty well. I think they should really look at fleshing out the Stargate to give Protoss some more options in the mid and late game. Hellions kill workers, oracles disrupt mining. That's the fundamental difference, and the reason oracles are hard to balance. But yeah, Stargate units REALLY suck. I really want the VR/Tempest to go (phoenix is okay in my book) and get some real air units in there. | ||
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DRTnOOber
New Zealand476 Posts
On September 07 2012 05:59 red4ce wrote: I'm still intrigued about the tempest but unfortunately of the few streams I've watched so far I have yet to see it being used. Aside from harassment, has it been used for other purposes like defending your own bases or sieging enemy bases? Does it synergize well with the protoss deathball? I feel like the range on the Tempest is so extreme for a Starcraft game that somebody out there can come up with a neat role for the Tempest that no other unit can replicate. In PvZ late game the only answer to Brood Lords is getting a good vortex off with a Mothership. I think the Tempest could be re-worked solely as an anti-Brood Lord weapon because vortex is very hit-or-miss, and a good Zerg player will neural your Mothership half the time anyway. | ||
FlaShFTW
United States10187 Posts
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DRTnOOber
New Zealand476 Posts
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
I really like the work that went into this, I can really tell that you spent quite a bit of time on this. | ||
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Sajiki
Germany522 Posts
i didnt expect anything else but i hoped for more  | ||
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remember87
Sweden144 Posts
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