EPTIt's really sad when we see Blizzard dumbdown the abilities and new units to the point they act so similarly to their Brood War counterparts. -_-
It's almost, keyword here is almost, as if they were repackaging Brood War.
[HotS] The Good, the Bad and the Ugly - Page 5
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
It's really sad when we see Blizzard dumbdown the abilities and new units to the point they act so similarly to their Brood War counterparts. -_- It's almost, keyword here is almost, as if they were repackaging Brood War. | ||
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Code
Canada634 Posts
1) typo on "Neutral"  2) I would put the Widow Mine as neutral for now. I think we will see it used a lot more efficiently as players experiment with them more. (side note: has anyone tried to drop Widow Mines into a mineral line? Even if they react before it burrows it will force detection before you can send your workers back.....or sacrifice one or two to detonate them? just thinking outloud here) 3) I would put the Viper in the good category. Abduct is really strong vs mech if you go roach/viper and its great vs Collosis as you said. The other abilities have potential. I dont mind the energy drain spell, with a little attention you can drain from a Hatch/Extractor and if you have extra Queens available you can transfuse if the HP gets too low/you need more energy I also watched Sheth use Blinding Cloud in ZvZ to hold a ramp with ling/ultra vs roaches so maybe there is potential for more uses than ZvT (although the enemy did keep A-moving up the ramp for some reason..) Good read Plexa! | ||
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Ideas
United States8141 Posts
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
i am atm happy about automining because i get a big lag at the start of every game ^^ protoss being so awful in hots might actually turn me away from SC2 altogether  | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
To me, gimmicks are often pretty cool. How gimmicky are hydras, roaches, marauders, corruptors or zealots? And how many people consider these units to be cool? Exactly. Units with just different values on hp/damage/speed/attack speed but nothing which make them stand out are pretty boring. On the other hand, consider Tanks ("gimmicky" range, siege mode, terrible without) Banelings (bane bombs, bane rain, or just blowing up an army of marines in seconds) Phoenix (cant do much of anything without their "gimmicky" lift) Ghost (nukes are like the definition of gimmicky, emp maybe too) Templers (storm) Hellions (super fast and super good at killing workers, bad at most other things) Are these units interesting and cool? I think most players would say yes. I think it becomes a much more interesting game with more gimmicks. All races should have their unique and (without context) overpowered abilities but together they should be attempted to be balanced. Take a moment to consider what the community would have thought if Blizzard decided to add flying buildings to Terran today and that before in both SC1 and SC2 it wouldnt have existed. How would the community react to that? Wouldnt that be an awfully gimmicky addition according to people? It probably would. Yet since its been there forever, we're absolutely fine with it, even though its gimmicky. I think we should give the Tempest some time. Its gimmicky, and thats good. It has the chance to create very unique and interesting situations as an air siege unit, just as tanks do as a ground siege unit. On topic of the warhound I dont have much of an opinion, but even though its boring (agreed) it might be a needed role for mech to work out. We'll see. | ||
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Zanno
United States1484 Posts
On September 07 2012 00:51 Kreb wrote: I find it a bit funny you complain about the Warhound being boring and the next sentence about Tempest being gimmicky. So what do you want exactly? It's not complicated The warhound has no interesting abilities and is too useful = boring The tempest has interesting abilities but is not useful = gimmicky | ||
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Condor Hero
United States2931 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:32 Zanno wrote: It's not complicated The warhound has no interesting abilities and is too useful = boring The tempest has interesting abilities but is not useful = gimmicky Tempest doesn't even have interesting abilities, it's just got massive fucking range. I'll be damned if a Protoss ever makes one of those unless he's up like 3 bases and was going to win anyways. | ||
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pigmanbear
Angola2010 Posts
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XXXSmOke
United States1333 Posts
On September 06 2012 13:37 Ideas wrote: people have complained about the warhound being boring for over a year and blizzard hasn't done shit to make it cooler. I think most of these units show that they are more interested in making units that look cool aesthetically instead of actually creating cool new gameplay mechanics. Judging by how blizzard handled the beta for WoL (only changing things to "balance" the game, no changes to make the game more interesting) I doubt there will be any real changes to the game beyond some balance stuff at this point. I was hoping HoTS would make SC2 more appealing to me but a lot of these units are just dumb (swarm host seems like the only neat unit to me). how fuck do you spend 2 years working on new units, taking in everything we learned about why some units in SC2/BW are boring and why some units in SC2/BW are exciting and then come up with the fucking warhound? btw the detection for oracle does overlap with observers but I think that's what blizzard wanted. they wanted it to be safer to go stargate before robo. Think about it this way though, maybe the warhound isnt supposed to be interesting instead its the unit that Terran needs to be able to mech, and if T can start meching in TvP than that MU will be 102019029301239x more interesting than the current meta game. Obviously the warhound is way to strong now, but once its nerfed a bit it should be able to help Terrans go mech which will make the game more interesting. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:34 pigmanbear wrote: Hehe so now Blizzard's even making workers auto-mine from the start of the game? They should issue a reasonable move command to your first overlord too I think Soon they will add tick a button on your gates to allow them to autoproduce units whenever a gate is idle.... and then in the last LotV patch they will remove minerals and gas altogether, requiring you to capture and maintain resource towers. | ||
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RaZorwire
Sweden718 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:45 XXXSmOke wrote: Think about it this way though, maybe the warhound isnt supposed to be interesting instead its the unit that Terran needs to be able to mech, and if T can start meching in TvP than that MU will be 102019029301239x more interesting than the current meta game. Obviously the warhound is way to strong now, but once its nerfed a bit it should be able to help Terrans go mech which will make the game more interesting. I think they're going about making mech viable the wrong way though. Optimally, imo, mech and bio would have different strengths and weaknesses; mech being slower but more powerful with bio being weaker but more mobile. Right now, with the Battle Hellion and the Warhound, they are making mech very mobile, seemingly eliminating the nead for slow, positional play with tanks. I'm happy Blizzard are trying to make Factory-play more viable, but the mech we are getting with the new HOTS-units is not as different from going bio as it could (and imo should) be. | ||
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Ideas
United States8141 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:50 RaZorwire wrote: I think they're going about making mech viable the wrong way though. Optimally, imo, mech and bio would have different strengths and weaknesses; mech being slower but more powerful with bio being weaker but more mobile. Right now, with the Battle Hellion and the Warhound, they are making mech very mobile, seemingly eliminating the nead for slow, positional play with tanks. I'm happy Blizzard are trying to make Factory-play more viable, but the mech we are getting with the new HOTS-units is not as different from going bio as it could (and imo should) be. exactly. the warhound is boring because it functions exactly the same as bio units (except even slower/beefier). what's the point of making "mech" viable if you're just doing that by making it exactly the same as having a bio army? | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
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Kaeru
Sweden552 Posts
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FATJESUSONABIKE
184 Posts
On September 07 2012 01:45 XXXSmOke wrote: Think about it this way though, maybe the warhound isnt supposed to be interesting instead its the unit that Terran needs to be able to mech, and if T can start meching in TvP than that MU will be 102019029301239x more interesting than the current meta game. Obviously the warhound is way to strong now, but once its nerfed a bit it should be able to help Terrans go mech which will make the game more interesting. you don't understand anything. think again. | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
What are these guys doing here? Well, immortals suck vs mech. And if there were an anti-mech unit you'd expect it to be immortals. In particular, Warhounds stomp all over immortals which makes no sense what so ever. Upon closer examination I realised that the haywire missile does 30 damage across three rockets - i.e. 10 damage each rocket which isn't sufficient to trigger the immortals hardened shield. The result? Warhounds crush immortals. ... what? I'm trying to think like Blizzard, but I just can't make the logic work. OK, it's 2007. I look at Siege Tanks and I hate this unit. But, rather than taking it out of the game, I'm instead going to give the Protoss a unit who's primary designed purpose is to hose Siege Tanks. And to hose them so hard that nobody will ever even consider building STs in TvP again. Alright, fine. It's 2012, and our plan is a success: no Terran player ever goes Mech in TvP. But now, for some reason, we want Terran players to go Mech against Protoss. OK, so, rather than removing the unit we put in for the sole purpose of hosing Mech, we'll just give Terran a unit who's primary designed purpose is to hose the unit we made to hose Mech. And thus... what have we accomplished? Terrans can use Siege Tanks, but only if they're accompanied by I just don't understand this. If Blizzard doesn't like Siege Tanks so much that they'll design a unit who's whole purpose is to kill them, why not just remove them? | ||
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Endymion
United States3701 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:31 NicolBolas wrote: ... what? I'm trying to think like Blizzard, but I just can't make the logic work. OK, it's 2007. I look at Siege Tanks and I hate this unit. But, rather than taking it out of the game, I'm instead going to give the Protoss a unit who's primary designed purpose is to hose Siege Tanks. And to hose them so hard that nobody will ever even consider building STs in TvP again. Alright, fine. It's 2012, and our plan is a success: no Terran player ever goes Mech in TvP. But now, for some reason, we want Terran players to go Mech against Protoss. OK, so, rather than removing the unit we put in for the sole purpose of hosing Mech, we'll just give Terran a unit who's primary designed purpose is to hose the unit we made to hose Mech. And thus... what have we accomplished? Terrans can use Siege Tanks, but only if they're accompanied by I just don't understand this. If Blizzard doesn't like Siege Tanks so much that they'll design a unit who's whole purpose is to kill them, why not just remove them? they don't want to be accused of defaulting to that BW TvP looked like | ||
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NicolBolas
United States1388 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:37 Endymion wrote: they don't want to be accused of defaulting to that BW TvP looked like They could do that by removing Siege Tanks; that's my point. They clearly don't like them, so take them out already and replace it with something they do like. Blizzard should stop building around units that they don't want in the game. | ||
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fabiano
Brazil4644 Posts
On September 07 2012 02:45 NicolBolas wrote: They could do that by removing Siege Tanks; that's my point. They clearly don't like them, so take them out already and replace it with something they do like. Blizzard should stop building around units that they don't want in the game. 1) Tanks are the identity of Terran. 2) They are the perfect example of great unit design, the option of removing tanks should never be considered. 3) If Blizzard takes out the tank, there is no hope for mech play because you can't get a mech-ier unit than the tank. 4) The tank has been fucked by Blizzard since Beta, through direct nerfs and indirect means like horribly designed units such as the immortal. | ||
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Burns
United States2300 Posts
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