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On September 02 2012 04:37 Soda wrote:
Just pay with cash, it's safer that way because it's harder to overspend.
I think your username is aptly chosen for this thread, lol. 
I can't remember a place that I've gone to, bar or otherwise (less of the bars though, haha), where there wasn't a spot on the receipt to put a tip under the total. I usually do around 10-20% wherever I go, usually closest to 15%. Granted, I dunno how much you want to think about simple arithmetic when you're drunk, lol.
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On September 02 2012 05:12 Kevin_Sorbo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 04:48 divito wrote:
I don't know of any bar/pub/restaurant in Canada (at least in the areas I've frequented in a few cities) that have minimums for debit/credit use.
A minimum/surcharge is more common in convenience stores, the one-offs that aren't like the chains, where they have debit/credit surcharges because they're not as busy to justify paying their own fees outright. You don't find out about this until you're at the cash.
If this bar isn't very popular, it's possible why they're trying to impose minimums. Or it could just be a selfish tactic. I found it was a popular policy in convenience stores at least. Province of Quebec here. A guy from a convenience store told me once that he wasnt accepting visa because they were charging fees to his store. I told him to go fuck himself kindly, and that he would not hand over the fees to me by forcing me to use a debit card that im being charged for using... left, bought my shit somewhere else, never went back there. thats how you deal with a merchant that you perceive as unfair to the customer. ( aka dark forces of greed )
He probably doesn't know it (the "0.50" fee usually doesn't come up unless its asking for a tip) but yeah, in Canada especially it is VERY common to have a debit/credit fee from the Card companies.
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There are minimums when paying by card because the payement processor takes a commission. But in general they are (and have to be) displayed clearly.
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On September 02 2012 04:35 ElvisWayCool wrote:
It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
Ask the host/bartender next time you go somewhere if there's a drink/dollar minimum. It's better to be safe than sorry.
EDIT: I bet 98% of the people in the bar knew about the minimum prior to going there.
Nope, this is not how contract law works (Which his how the western capitalist system functions).
Stipulations on contracts (such as a minimum order on a purchase) have to be confirmed before you follow through on the contract. Giving a price for a beverage, then serving the beverage at that price, is a complete contract. If you haven't stipulated any other specificities (a sign would suffice) then they must accept the unwritten terms of the agreement (which were, this drink costs this much).
That being said, they don't have to accept debit or credit card unless a sign specifically says they do.
"If you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault" ... I'll remember that if you ever come to my house. There's an unwritten rule that I then own your soul and all your assets, and you are then indentured to me ... wait, no, that's not how it works.
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On September 02 2012 05:19 MrCon wrote:
There are minimums when paying by card because the payement processor takes a commission. But in general they are (and have to be) displayed clearly.
and are extremely cheap
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You should try going for a drink in the wrong bars in Instanbul...makes this sound like Disneyland. I agree with you on the principle, just don't pay next time. Make a scene, whatever you can. Let the cops come. Only pay for what you ordered, ultimately you could agree on a dollar surcharge fro using your creditcard or something.
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I have never been to a bar where the minimum wasn't hanging on the wall behind the register. It was probably up there somewhere.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51481 Posts
Minimun of $15 for a tab :S
Must be American thing? In England the only time you get a bar tab though is when your in a resturant more than a pub though. As we seem to just pay for drinks on the spot in "rounds" as im sure you do if your with mates.
Strange though, and im sure you should go back when it's quieter and have words with managment because that is quite disturbing how they made you pay another $10 when you only had one drink!
On September 02 2012 05:22 NeMeSiS3 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 05:19 MrCon wrote:
There are minimums when paying by card because the payement processor takes a commission. But in general they are (and have to be) displayed clearly. and are extremely cheap
In England it is done on a % of the transactions per month i think. We have recently renewed our "card terminals" with our bank and they have cut costs of it, they take a % but i can't remember how much it is. Im sure it close to 5% though.
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man up and stop being cheap, you dont go to a bar to spend only 5 bucks
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On September 02 2012 05:23 All.In wrote:
I have never been to a bar where the minimum wasn't hanging on the wall behind the register. It was probably up there somewhere.
I asked both bartenders working at the moment, about it being posted anywhere(whether that be on a sign or noted on the menu) both agreed it was not posted anywhere. But meh, they could be wrong. Assuming would be just as bad as I assuming it is some form of law/common courtesy to inform patrons of a minimum before a purchase/transaction.
I understand the reason for minimums, and am completely fine with them. I am simply upset about not being informed in the first place.
As others have suggested, I will not be going back.
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On September 02 2012 05:28 Mazzi wrote:
man up and stop being cheap, you dont go to a bar to spend only 5 bucks
Would you say the same if that minimum would have been $50 or $100 dollars without prior notice?
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Where was this bar? Atlanta? And what kind of bar was it? This sounds like a shady, strip-club-esque tactic to me.
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On September 02 2012 04:35 ElvisWayCool wrote:
It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
Ask the host/bartender next time you go somewhere if there's a drink/dollar minimum. It's better to be safe than sorry.
EDIT: I bet 98% of the people in the bar knew about the minimum prior to going there.
Anyone from the US confirm whether this is totally accurate? In the UK I've literally never come across a minimum service charge that wasn't clearly mentioned by the counter.
Seems really stupid to put the responsibilty on the customer when one sign would do the job, especially in a bar.
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why run a tab if you're gonna have 1 drink and leave
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If you weren't informed before the purchase, you could have walked right out.
Good luck.
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On September 02 2012 04:49 NeMeSiS3 wrote:
The reason "minimums" exist regarding cards is becasue card companies charge businesses for each swipe but the general toll is approximately 50cents (this can vary, debit machines in Canada that I go to usually have a dollar/2 dollar value when at the ATM)
15 dollars is absolutely ridiculous and you could have simply just not paid and left the bar if you wanted to (but you'd have been blacklisted from it).
If you didn't have the 5.00 to pay the drink, you simply write up your information leave it there and then bring the money in the next day, there is no way a "15.00" minimum fee would stand in small claims court nor would the bartender even bother to attend it.
this, most places usually have it at 5.00 minimum, 15 is really high.
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On September 02 2012 04:35 ElvisWayCool wrote:
It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
No, it's not like that at all.
Unfortunately, there is probably some small print in some obscure corner of the bar that reads that you 'agree' to their terms by making any purchases.
You might be able to legally challenge that you can't consent to something you're unaware about (and that you're unaware because of their negligence in prominently displaying/informing a customer ahead of time), but it the cost to do so is prohibitive. That's where class actions come into play, but you still aren't gonna be able to do that on a local bar.
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On September 02 2012 05:50 Kasu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 04:35 ElvisWayCool wrote:
It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
Ask the host/bartender next time you go somewhere if there's a drink/dollar minimum. It's better to be safe than sorry.
EDIT: I bet 98% of the people in the bar knew about the minimum prior to going there. Anyone from the US confirm whether this is totally accurate? In the UK I've literally never come across a minimum service charge that wasn't clearly mentioned by the counter. Seems really stupid to put the responsibilty on the customer when one sign would do the job, especially in a bar.
Well, the US is a big place, and there might be, for all I know, regional differences in play. I can say that, as far as the states that I've lived in (Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia) and the bars that I've been to, I have never run into a tab minimum, much less one that was mentioned only after the fact.
In my experience, you see credit card minimum charges as convenience stores and whatnot, but they are always spelled out in writing and relatively small (like under $5).
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$15 is unreasonably high, a standerd fee to them is ~3% +$1 per transaction. how can they take your card to start a tab and not tell you that there is a minimum? seems to me they are either really stupid or trying to gouge you.
On September 02 2012 05:25 Pandemona wrote:
Minimun of $15 for a tab :S
Must be American thing? In England the only time you get a bar tab though is when your in a resturant more than a pub though. As we seem to just pay for drinks on the spot in "rounds" as im sure you do if your with mates.
Strange though, and im sure you should go back when it's quieter and have words with managment because that is quite disturbing how they made you pay another $10 when you only had one drink!
In England it is done on a % of the transactions per month i think. We have recently renewed our "card terminals" with our bank and they have cut costs of it, they take a % but i can't remember how much it is. Im sure it close to 5% though.
its common practice for most bars to start a tab if you try to pay for a round with a cc. as soon as you hand over your card they assume your starting a tab. most likely to cut down on the cost to them, as in america, merchants pay fees per transaction plus % of the total. so if they can swipe your card once instead of 5 or 6 times its saving them $5 or $6.
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On September 02 2012 05:50 Kasu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2012 04:35 ElvisWayCool wrote:
It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
Ask the host/bartender next time you go somewhere if there's a drink/dollar minimum. It's better to be safe than sorry.
EDIT: I bet 98% of the people in the bar knew about the minimum prior to going there. Anyone from the US confirm whether this is totally accurate? In the UK I've literally never come across a minimum service charge that wasn't clearly mentioned by the counter. Seems really stupid to put the responsibilty on the customer when one sign would do the job, especially in a bar.
It's kind of true. If you were to be taken to court for charges to be pressed (like speeding tickets, rape etc) and tried to claim that you didn't know what the speed limit was, or that you were retarded and didn't know rape was bad they would tell you that ignorance of the law does not acquit you, and you would be charged as though you had confessed to the crime. In a scenario like this though, where it is a dispute between a non-governmental agency and a citizen I don't believe that would hold true. There are numerous precedents (with more and more being ruled on weekly it seems) that states customers must be aware of charges and terms before being held to them. Like others have said, $5-10 isn't a big deal, but I believe that if the OP had simply sat down and called the cops, when they showed up they likely would have told the bartenders they could either run the card or they would take it back and give it to OP.
On September 02 2012 05:53 MrRicewife wrote:
If you weren't informed before the purchase, you could have walked right out.
Good luck.
He said they had his card and wouldn't return it unless he met the minimum. Most places that you open a tab on will keep your card so you don't just walk out.
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