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I am unaware of the Laws concerning this and do not know where to look to find them. Therefore I am reaching out, to ask and possibly start a discussion.
Basically, is it legal to have a minimum purchase requirement when you use either a Debit or Credit card. If it is, is there any precedence that requires that minimum fee to be informed to the purchaser before hand or posted somewhere.
Last night, I went to a bar and purchased a drink for $5.00 which I payed for with my card. I wanted to close out, however was then informed that there is a $15.00 minimum. I thought that was ridiculous and the bar tender simply replied why don't you buy one for your friends or have another one. My issue is what stops them from having a $20.00, $50.00, or $100.00 minimum that they just tell you after the fact.
Yes the price wasn't that much, but I believe it is the principle of the thing. If they would have just told me of the minimum in the first place and not sprung it on me, I would not be opposed to going back as I am now.
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You say the price wasn't that much, but through my rereading I can't tell if you actually mean that there really wasn't a $15 minimum and that it was less than that. I'll assume that it was $15.
That's ridiculous!
Edit: I don't drink so can't help you here, maybe someone else can.
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There's no law, but they can just deny you service.
It goes back to the minimum, it's circular.
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And the term you're looking for is violation of a merchant's agreement.
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Usually minimums are for debit or credit cards, like your said. Cards aren't free and businesses end up paying a small fee each time they're used. Did they also deny your cash too?
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I purchased a beer for $5.00. I wanted to leave so I asked for my tab. I was then informed that the bar had a $15.00 minimum on all Credit/Debit card transactions after my order of my first drink. So I had to add an extra $10.00 onto my tab, before I could close out and receive my card back.
No there was no minimum on cash orders. Again my complaint is mostly about being told about the minimum for cards after the fact. If they would have said such before my original order, I would not be as upset or at all. Because then it is my conscious choice to take on that extra $10.00 cost.
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I cant believe this is the first time you have ran into this situation. Did you just turn 21?
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It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
Ask the host/bartender next time you go somewhere if there's a drink/dollar minimum. It's better to be safe than sorry.
EDIT: I bet 98% of the people in the bar knew about the minimum prior to going there.
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On September 02 2012 04:31 Atlantian wrote:
I purchased a beer for $5.00. I wanted to leave so I asked for my tab. I was then informed that the bar had a $15.00 minimum on all Credit/Debit card transactions after my order of my first drink. So I had to add an extra $10.00 onto my tab, before I could close out and receive my card back.
Pretty sure they have to tell you that before you use your credit/debit card. Call up the owner of the bar and file a complaint. You might get a couple free drinks for compensation even.
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Just pay with cash, it's safer that way because it's harder to overspend.
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Ha, no I did not just turn 21, and have run into minimums plenty of times before. But again, this is the first time I was at a place that did not tell you or post their minimum policy. I am just taking offense to not being told before hand. I am fine with paying a minimum when I know there is one in the first place.
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This is pretty standard but usually minimum order is more like 5 dollars to keep people from ordering a 1 dollar special drink/shot and using their card that way. The vendor has to pay for every credit card transaction they do, and it isn't worth it to the business to be paying that fee for 1 dollar tabs.
Anyway easy way around this is carry cash just in case. Some bars are cash only too and require you to pay extremely high fees to use ATMs I have seen 15-20 dollar charges for ATMs.
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First, always have some sort of cash on hand just in case. Second, according the US rulings a business has the right to choose payment methods.
You may have a case to get your money back if they failed to provide adequate communication of their policy.
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On September 02 2012 04:35 ElvisWayCool wrote:
It's kind of like the law: if you're ignorant of the rules, it's your fault.
Ask the host/bartender next time you go somewhere if there's a drink/dollar minimum. It's better to be safe than sorry.
EDIT: I bet 98% of the people in the bar knew about the minimum prior to going there.
What Torte de lini said was correct though. It's a made up rule that establishments use to avoid paying the 2.75% service charge or whatever number they negotiated.
To the other guy, going to their boss probably won't help. Chances are the owner is the one wanting to have a minimum so that he can not report some/most cash income to the IRS and avoid the 2.75% expense incurred from accepting credit cards.
You can tell the bartender or whoever is charging you that they have no right to do that, alternatively you could also call up visa or whatever card you used and report them, chances are they get hit with a fine and you get your money back since they are, as torte de lini said, violating their agreement.
A company like Visa won't be happy that one of their customers was shafted and they lost money because a bar decided to create their own minimum to avoid giving them money that was agreed they would get.
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United States24673 Posts
It is normal for restaurants (especially pizza places I've found) to have minimums on credit cards. Normally this isn't a problem because you haven't consumed the food/drink yet when you try to pay. They will inform you of the minimum and you can adjust your order, pay the extra, or walk away from the products.
In the case of a tab (usually a bar) this sucks because you have already consumed the drink and now owe them money. If you don't have cash they kinda have you by the 'balls.'
On the other hand, I don't agree with the 'minimum purchase' at all. How about, for purchases less than X (15 for example) you pay an extra 1-2 dollar convenience fee? If you buy a 5 dollar item, the 10 dollar gap to meet the minimum is unnecessarily large to cover the CC expenses.
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On September 02 2012 04:44 Thenerf wrote:
First, always have some sort of cash on hand just in case. Second, according the US rulings a business has the right to choose payment methods.
You may have a case to get your money back if they failed to provide adequate communication of their policy.
They can choose payment methods like declining to accept American Express cards which many businesses do, however once you agree to accept AE/Visa, whatever you need to abide to the terms they agreed upon, IE: If you say you accept the tender, then you accept it regardless of number.
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I don't know of any bar/pub/restaurant in Canada (at least in the areas I've frequented in a few cities) that have minimums for debit/credit use.
A minimum/surcharge is more common in convenience stores, the one-offs that aren't like the chains, where they have debit/credit surcharges because they're not as busy to justify paying their own fees outright. You don't find out about this until you're at the cash.
If this bar isn't very popular, it's possible why they're trying to impose minimums. Or it could just be a selfish tactic.
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The reason "minimums" exist regarding cards is becasue card companies charge businesses for each swipe but the general toll is approximately 50cents (this can vary, debit machines in Canada that I go to usually have a dollar/2 dollar value when at the ATM)
15 dollars is absolutely ridiculous and you could have simply just not paid and left the bar if you wanted to (but you'd have been blacklisted from it).
If you didn't have the 5.00 to pay the drink, you simply write up your information leave it there and then bring the money in the next day, there is no way a "15.00" minimum fee would stand in small claims court nor would the bartender even bother to attend it.
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On September 02 2012 04:37 Soda wrote:
Just pay with cash, it's safer that way because it's harder to overspend.
Words of wisdom!
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On September 02 2012 04:48 divito wrote:
I don't know of any bar/pub/restaurant in Canada (at least in the areas I've frequented in a few cities) that have minimums for debit/credit use.
A minimum/surcharge is more common in convenience stores, the one-offs that aren't like the chains, where they have debit/credit surcharges because they're not as busy to justify paying their own fees outright. You don't find out about this until you're at the cash.
If this bar isn't very popular, it's possible why they're trying to impose minimums. Or it could just be a selfish tactic.
I found it was a popular policy in convenience stores at least. Province of Quebec here.
A guy from a convenience store told me once that he wasnt accepting visa because they were charging fees to his store. I told him to go fuck himself kindly, and that he would not hand over the fees to me by forcing me to use a debit card that im being charged for using...
left, bought my shit somewhere else, never went back there.
thats how you deal with a merchant that you perceive as unfair to the customer. ( aka dark forces of greed )
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EPT
