• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:25
CEST 16:25
KST 23:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?92Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!45Weekly Cups (August 17-23): Zerg dominate the week6
StarCraft 2
General
Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) SC4ALL: II Winner Will Earn a Spot at HSC 30! Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over September World Ranking: herO leads, Serral climbs
Tourneys
2026 GSTL Announcement Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly SC2 INu's Battles#20 [BO.9]
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? Pros React To: Calm's Big Brain Play Vs Mini New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery! [ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro24 Group F [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Brood War in Budapest ! WORTEX 2026 BW Finals
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Replay Review Process - What do you do? Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Artificial Intelligence Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
F* the Children and Get Off …
TrAiDoS
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
Regacy Esports: The Bh…
regacyesports
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7082 users

Why should I play ladder any more? - Page 2

Blogs > graNite
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 All
pestilenz
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Denmark379 Posts
July 16 2012 17:59 GMT
#21
I do not like balance whining...

But if you really want some new approach to the game then I suggest that you switch race and start over.
You can attack with this?!
sieksdekciw
Profile Joined April 2012
240 Posts
July 16 2012 18:16 GMT
#22
On July 16 2012 20:46 graNite wrote:
Why should I play ladder any more?

Dear TL community, please tell me why I should play the 1v1 ladder any more. I am a terran player at the Master league and currently I see no point in playing 1v1 ladder.

Where I am now:
Currently I am playing a lot of 2v2s with friends, just for fun. I am watching many tournaments, because I like SC2.

The story so far:
+ Show Spoiler +
I started SC2 as my first RTS with its release, started in Bronze league and fought my way up to Masters. I played Terran from the first game because I knew it was the right race to play.
I did massive 1v1 sessions with average 8 games per day over one and a half years, and I liked it a lot. Recently, with the last change that have been made to the game, I lost the fun playing 1v1 to compete with others.


TvT
+ Show Spoiler +
I always liked it and like it now, too. Even when there was the time of tankchess, I liked the positional battles. Like in every other matchup too, the metagame trend is going towards more bio and less tanks to be more aggressive, because, most of the times, you can not win a highlevel game with defense only.
Nothing more can be said about a mirror matchup because when both players start with the same conditions, the game is fair.


TvP
+ Show Spoiler +
I bought SC2 because I liked the idea of micro and macro, and TvP is so much micro (on the Terran side at least; I don’t want to take anything away from Protosses, but in the late game, they have to micro so much less than the terran players.)
The TvP matchup is one of the fairest (non-mirror) matchups in my opinion, until it goes to the lategame. The Terran reward for microing perfectly all day is staying alive until the next warpin.
I loved this matchup so much because of the amount of micro I could do in the midgame, but nowadays the Protoss just turtles and a-moves his deathball. A few storms here and there, maybe some feedbacks, but these actions are the only ones you can call micro. Colossi don’t need to be microed, Zealots can not be microed.

The Terran has to focus the Colossi with his Vikings, stim and then micro the bioball against Zealots and storm, while dropping perfect EMPs. If one of these things is not perfect, you lose the game because the Zealots connect and deal too much damage; or the Collossi stay alive and deal too much damage; or the Templars stay alive and full of energy and storm everything, even your medivacs; and without them you can not kite the Zealots. Kiting is a central point in TvP because Zealots deal too much damage to your biounits and THEY JUST DO NOT DIE. when they are fully upgraded, they don’t care about EMPs or kiting, the only thing you can do is building Marines. Sadly, protosses do not only build zealots but units with splash damage, too, and everything kills marines so fast that you can not use marines to deal with zealots specifically without microing as if you had 17 hands. At this point, please remember I am a casual player and not a pro player, so I have only 2 hands.

Zealot warpins or runbys are so strong that I have to bring my entire army back for defense because I can’t micro my new units because I have more important things to do like microing my main army or macroing.

The army you build up as a Terran player is not scary at all: there is nothing Protoss has to react to: Terran has to react to Colossi with Vikings, to Templars with Ghosts. What has Terran that Protoss has to react to?

As the game goes to the lategame, the game becomes unfair for the Terran player. Blizzard knows that and says “you have to do damage in the midgame to stay even”. That is the same statement as mine, but said more nicely to not reveal the unfairness.


TvZ
+ Show Spoiler +

At the moment, I just allin every game and it works 80% of the time because that allin is so strong (One Barracks, two Factories, maybe I will make a guide someday) and Zerg players are greedier than ever with the recent changes.

I love the micro involved, that’s why i do it. Moreover, Blizzard wants us to allin:
Terran has no good lategame army except the “Skyterran” in the superlategame with Raven-Battlecruiser-Viking, which can be killed in seconds by chain fungal and is very hard to transition to because you have too few Starports and no upgrades for it. Other than that, the current metagame trend goes towards less Tanks, bio play is getting more popular: you need less upgrades, you are more mobile and you can replace your army faster when everything died because of chain fungal.
Tanks are getting replaced because it is easier to split your bio against marines than getting tanks in a good position to kill banelings and infestors, and here is why:

The maps are really big; with the recent queen change, the Zerg player gets more queens earlier on, therefore has more creep and because of the creep on the map the terran push is way slower and gets shut down more easily when he has Tanks. Tanks need to be sieged when the attack comes because the first seconds of a fight are the deciding point: when there are too many lings after the first few hits the terran just gets surrounded and killed.

I don’t say it is currently impossible to beat a zerg, but it is very hard when you want to do it after the midgame mark.

Infestors are also too strong: their “counter”, Ghosts, got nerfed so hard that not even pro players use them in this matchup any more. In my opinion, the Ghost or the Raven should always play a role in a Terran matchup because they are the only Terran spellcasters; but the Ghost is too slow and its range and EMP radius too small to do something against Infestors. Moreover, if you have energy left after you used your main spell as a Zerg player (fungal) you can use the rest of the energy for Infested Terrans. I like that idea, but as a Terran player, the spell you can use after EMP is snipe which deals 25 damage ( to Not-Infestor units). 2 snipes for a zergling seem more than unfair; it should be rewarding to be used on the big units like Broodlords and Ultralisks again, because that would be a good way to deal with the techswitches. And two snipes for a single Infestor is just too much, even Protoss has a better way to deal with them (just a single feedback).

When Ghosts were used in TvZ lategame, Zerg players said is was unfair that Terran can kill everything with them and I had to laugh; Terran is not the reactionary race. Terran can not techswitch as easy as Zerg can do and Terran needs extra upgrades for its lategame units.

The infestor can kill everything (like the Ghost did), too, and even better. It has area damage, detection, can burrow and - the unfairest attribute in the game - chain fungal: when you make one small mistake, you can be fungaled to death. Medivacs can not escape, Marine groups can not escape while not even being able to shoot at the Infestors at all and even Ghosts get detected and fungaled to death. Tanks also can not siege nor run away.

Again, like in TvP, the game becomes unfair when it goes to the lategame and “Terran did no damage in the midgame to stay even.”

You can not use a progamer as an example how to play, because it is a completly different game they play: much more apm they can use, specific timed builds strike at a timing and preparation to snipe a certain player on a certain map are things I can not use as a casual player on the ladder.


With all this unfairness, why should I be playing the ladder to compete any more? The game is unfair when you are a Terran player and I don’t want to start a game I lost at the race selection screen!



Thanks for reading; please no balance discussion unless you are directly answering my problems with the balance or proving me wrong.

agreed 100% with everything

On the bright side, when they nerf zerg and toss, you would jump one league, and all of them will get demoted, so keep playing.
ShivaN
Profile Joined January 2007
United States933 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 18:53:20
July 16 2012 18:37 GMT
#23
On July 16 2012 23:36 jeeeeohn wrote:
Stop playing if you're not enjoying the game. I'm curious to know why this is always a crisis. How has Starcraft 2 hardwired us to keep playing so thoroughly that the idea of quitting becomes this blasphemous heresy?

Uh maybe it's because people don't WANT to quit, but rather are feeling forced to due to Blizzard's awesome idea of "asymmetrical" balance. I played BW for over 10 years and have played SC2 since day 1 of beta, playing Terran only all these years, and I'm in the exact same boat as him, as I'm sure many many other Terrans are. I quit totally after the last patch, not because I really wanted too, but just how unfun 2/3 of the matchups are to play imo. It's too disheartening to play this game in it's current form if you're not top Korean-level players.
_mmK
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden10 Posts
July 16 2012 20:04 GMT
#24
On July 17 2012 03:37 ShivaN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 23:36 jeeeeohn wrote:
Stop playing if you're not enjoying the game. I'm curious to know why this is always a crisis. How has Starcraft 2 hardwired us to keep playing so thoroughly that the idea of quitting becomes this blasphemous heresy?

Uh maybe it's because people don't WANT to quit, but rather are feeling forced to due to Blizzard's awesome idea of "asymmetrical" balance. I played BW for over 10 years and have played SC2 since day 1 of beta, playing Terran only all these years, and I'm in the exact same boat as him, as I'm sure many many other Terrans are. I quit totally after the last patch, not because I really wanted too, but just how unfun 2/3 of the matchups are to play imo. It's too disheartening to play this game in it's current form if you're not top Korean-level players.


I totally agree with you though I have spent soooooo many hours into this game and I love but yeah, it feels like blizz is pushing me away from terran. And the other races are just plain boring for me sooo it's 2v2's for me if any. And when I watch tournaments I root for terran but when terran is not seen that often it get's boring to watch, like watching a fotboll game between two teams who you don't know anything about and you just meh... it's the same feeling.
Xyik
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
Canada728 Posts
July 16 2012 20:19 GMT
#25
Good, I don't want to play PvT anymore either.
graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
July 16 2012 21:01 GMT
#26
So funny how few people actually read my text and respond accordingly to my question for a reason to or not to play any more.

I don't want to start a thread about balance, I didn't want to whine, I just wanted to tell you all my feelings about the current state of Terran and why I don't enjoy playing 1v1 at the moment.

To do that, I needed to point out my view of the balance, of course, but just to give you an idea how it got that way, not to whine and cry "omg my marines need more health!!" ...

You guys should not respond to a thread when you have nothing to contribute.

---

Thanks for all the good responses, but waiting for HOTS is not a valid option, because I want to play now and nobody says it will be fair when HOTS comes out. On the other side, I don't think Blizzard will patch balance until then although they know the balance problems (for example with the lategame zealots).
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
July 16 2012 21:49 GMT
#27
On July 17 2012 06:01 graNite wrote:
So funny how few people actually read my text and respond accordingly to my question for a reason to or not to play any more.

I don't want to start a thread about balance, I didn't want to whine, I just wanted to tell you all my feelings about the current state of Terran and why I don't enjoy playing 1v1 at the moment.

To do that, I needed to point out my view of the balance, of course, but just to give you an idea how it got that way, not to whine and cry "omg my marines need more health!!" ...

You guys should not respond to a thread when you have nothing to contribute.

---

Thanks for all the good responses, but waiting for HOTS is not a valid option, because I want to play now and nobody says it will be fair when HOTS comes out. On the other side, I don't think Blizzard will patch balance until then although they know the balance problems (for example with the lategame zealots).

ya, if I had your 80% winrate against Zerg early game I would scream unfair as well. Must be hard.
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
July 16 2012 22:01 GMT
#28
On July 17 2012 06:49 Integra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 17 2012 06:01 graNite wrote:
So funny how few people actually read my text and respond accordingly to my question for a reason to or not to play any more.

I don't want to start a thread about balance, I didn't want to whine, I just wanted to tell you all my feelings about the current state of Terran and why I don't enjoy playing 1v1 at the moment.

To do that, I needed to point out my view of the balance, of course, but just to give you an idea how it got that way, not to whine and cry "omg my marines need more health!!" ...

You guys should not respond to a thread when you have nothing to contribute.

---

Thanks for all the good responses, but waiting for HOTS is not a valid option, because I want to play now and nobody says it will be fair when HOTS comes out. On the other side, I don't think Blizzard will patch balance until then although they know the balance problems (for example with the lategame zealots).

ya, if I had your 80% winrate against Zerg early game I would scream unfair as well. Must be hard.

Winrate has nothing to do with having fun
Platinum Support GOD
Zombo Joe
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada850 Posts
July 16 2012 23:28 GMT
#29
On July 17 2012 03:37 ShivaN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 23:36 jeeeeohn wrote:
Stop playing if you're not enjoying the game. I'm curious to know why this is always a crisis. How has Starcraft 2 hardwired us to keep playing so thoroughly that the idea of quitting becomes this blasphemous heresy?

Uh maybe it's because people don't WANT to quit, but rather are feeling forced to due to Blizzard's awesome idea of "asymmetrical" balance. I played BW for over 10 years and have played SC2 since day 1 of beta, playing Terran only all these years, and I'm in the exact same boat as him, as I'm sure many many other Terrans are. I quit totally after the last patch, not because I really wanted too, but just how unfun 2/3 of the matchups are to play imo. It's too disheartening to play this game in it's current form if you're not top Korean-level players.


Exact same fucking deal with me. Its just no fun anymore to lose to awful players because I made 1 mistake that ended the game while they can make several and be fine. Shit ain't fair.
I am Terranfying.
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
July 17 2012 00:00 GMT
#30
On July 16 2012 21:44 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 21:30 PuddingTiger wrote:
yeah this is just one big balance whine. also check out the data here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786

In masters and above the game is very closely balanced. There is never more than a 60/40 split during any timing window in any matchup. Yes, you will lose a few more games in late game TvP, but it will be 40/60 split, not like you will lose every game. If you really can't deal with losing 1/10 late game TvPs/TvZs that you would otherwise have won had the game been perfecftly balanced, you can't really claim to have much passion for the game anyway. If you are worrying about the game being unfair rather than just doing your best and trying to improve then you will probably lose more.

If you really want to be given a reason to play the game rather than just vent your anger over balance issues? Consider the fact that perhaps your anger at losing is making the game feel more unfair than it acutally is. It is easier to whine about balance rather than accept you got outplayed and try to improve, which, most of the time, is what will have happened.


60/40 is ridiculously imbalanced.


By the standards we're used to, maybe.

Even an overall 60/40 split implies that the top players of a race are capable of consistently beating lesser and mid-tier players, but will have difficulties when facing players on their level or slightly below it, so it's hardly the end of the world. A 60/40 split for specific points and situations in the game shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is.
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
July 17 2012 16:29 GMT
#31
On July 17 2012 09:00 Talin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 21:44 SnowFantasy wrote:
On July 16 2012 21:30 PuddingTiger wrote:
yeah this is just one big balance whine. also check out the data here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786

In masters and above the game is very closely balanced. There is never more than a 60/40 split during any timing window in any matchup. Yes, you will lose a few more games in late game TvP, but it will be 40/60 split, not like you will lose every game. If you really can't deal with losing 1/10 late game TvPs/TvZs that you would otherwise have won had the game been perfecftly balanced, you can't really claim to have much passion for the game anyway. If you are worrying about the game being unfair rather than just doing your best and trying to improve then you will probably lose more.

If you really want to be given a reason to play the game rather than just vent your anger over balance issues? Consider the fact that perhaps your anger at losing is making the game feel more unfair than it acutally is. It is easier to whine about balance rather than accept you got outplayed and try to improve, which, most of the time, is what will have happened.


60/40 is ridiculously imbalanced.


By the standards we're used to, maybe.

Even an overall 60/40 split implies that the top players of a race are capable of consistently beating lesser and mid-tier players, but will have difficulties when facing players on their level or slightly below it, so it's hardly the end of the world. A 60/40 split for specific points and situations in the game shouldn't be as big of a deal as it is.


Well it sure can be annoying when you're on the 40% side of things.

Besides that, numbers only mean so much. What is actually very annoying is the actual gameplay : having to resort to cheese / constantly harass or pray for a mistake of your opponent to hope for a win, in other words, feeling always behind and compelled to be very active to stand a chance.
Resistance ain't futile
9-BiT
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States1089 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-17 17:01:56
July 17 2012 16:53 GMT
#32
Hahaha good troll post. Wait, what? First off, balance whining. Secondly, asking us for permission to stop playing ladder (he really just wants to bitch). And then you have a 80% win rate and tvz and want to nerf zerg? Ahahahahaha, you're funny, you

EDIT:
All you guys bitching about how you are losing to people worse than you, stop thinking that. If you want to improve, just say that if you lose to someone, they are better than you, whether or not they are.
And if the game isn't fun, don't play it. With HOTS right around the corner you guys can start playing again, or just play 2s or something
kwark_uk: @father_sc learn to play maybe?
Prev 1 2 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Weekly
11:00
#103
IntoTheiNu 1264
WardiTV988
OGKoka 305
Rex147
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Serral 505
Lowko458
OGKoka 305
Rex 147
SHIN 41
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 8167
Bisu 3509
Shuttle 1970
Mini 489
Light 257
Zeus 211
Soulkey 182
Stork 178
Snow 133
Hyun 107
[ Show more ]
hero 87
Yoon 85
Sea.KH 84
Barracks 84
ToSsGirL 83
PianO 51
Mong 46
Sharp 43
NotJumperer 25
Free 22
soO 22
JYJ 22
Shine 21
SilentControl 14
Terrorterran 14
Sacsri 13
scan(afreeca) 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 6
Dota 2
qojqva3389
Dendi1728
syndereN427
BananaSlamJamma308
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss1655
kRYSTAL_271
Other Games
singsing2048
hiko840
B2W.Neo830
crisheroes482
Happy272
Liquid`VortiX240
Hui .164
Liquid`RaSZi160
ArmadaUGS74
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV74
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 7
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• mYiSmile17
• Gemini_19 4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV552
League of Legends
• Nemesis1949
Upcoming Events
Monday Night Weeklies
1h 36m
Afreeca Starleague
19h 36m
Leta vs ggaemo
Jaedong vs Queen
GSL
20h 36m
PiGosaur Cup
1d 9h
Kung Fu Cup
1d 20h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
KCM Race Survival
2 days
Escore
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
[ Show More ]
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
6 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
WardiTV Weekly
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-02
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
Esports World Cup 2026: LCQ
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.