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Why should I play ladder any more?

Blogs > graNite
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graNite
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Germany4434 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-16 11:46:34
July 16 2012 11:46 GMT
#1
Why should I play ladder any more?

Dear TL community, please tell me why I should play the 1v1 ladder any more. I am a terran player at the Master league and currently I see no point in playing 1v1 ladder.

Where I am now:
Currently I am playing a lot of 2v2s with friends, just for fun. I am watching many tournaments, because I like SC2.

The story so far:
+ Show Spoiler +
I started SC2 as my first RTS with its release, started in Bronze league and fought my way up to Masters. I played Terran from the first game because I knew it was the right race to play.
I did massive 1v1 sessions with average 8 games per day over one and a half years, and I liked it a lot. Recently, with the last change that have been made to the game, I lost the fun playing 1v1 to compete with others.


TvT
+ Show Spoiler +
I always liked it and like it now, too. Even when there was the time of tankchess, I liked the positional battles. Like in every other matchup too, the metagame trend is going towards more bio and less tanks to be more aggressive, because, most of the times, you can not win a highlevel game with defense only.
Nothing more can be said about a mirror matchup because when both players start with the same conditions, the game is fair.


TvP
+ Show Spoiler +
I bought SC2 because I liked the idea of micro and macro, and TvP is so much micro (on the Terran side at least; I don’t want to take anything away from Protosses, but in the late game, they have to micro so much less than the terran players.)
The TvP matchup is one of the fairest (non-mirror) matchups in my opinion, until it goes to the lategame. The Terran reward for microing perfectly all day is staying alive until the next warpin.
I loved this matchup so much because of the amount of micro I could do in the midgame, but nowadays the Protoss just turtles and a-moves his deathball. A few storms here and there, maybe some feedbacks, but these actions are the only ones you can call micro. Colossi don’t need to be microed, Zealots can not be microed.

The Terran has to focus the Colossi with his Vikings, stim and then micro the bioball against Zealots and storm, while dropping perfect EMPs. If one of these things is not perfect, you lose the game because the Zealots connect and deal too much damage; or the Collossi stay alive and deal too much damage; or the Templars stay alive and full of energy and storm everything, even your medivacs; and without them you can not kite the Zealots. Kiting is a central point in TvP because Zealots deal too much damage to your biounits and THEY JUST DO NOT DIE. when they are fully upgraded, they don’t care about EMPs or kiting, the only thing you can do is building Marines. Sadly, protosses do not only build zealots but units with splash damage, too, and everything kills marines so fast that you can not use marines to deal with zealots specifically without microing as if you had 17 hands. At this point, please remember I am a casual player and not a pro player, so I have only 2 hands.

Zealot warpins or runbys are so strong that I have to bring my entire army back for defense because I can’t micro my new units because I have more important things to do like microing my main army or macroing.

The army you build up as a Terran player is not scary at all: there is nothing Protoss has to react to: Terran has to react to Colossi with Vikings, to Templars with Ghosts. What has Terran that Protoss has to react to?

As the game goes to the lategame, the game becomes unfair for the Terran player. Blizzard knows that and says “you have to do damage in the midgame to stay even”. That is the same statement as mine, but said more nicely to not reveal the unfairness.


TvZ
+ Show Spoiler +

At the moment, I just allin every game and it works 80% of the time because that allin is so strong (One Barracks, two Factories, maybe I will make a guide someday) and Zerg players are greedier than ever with the recent changes.

I love the micro involved, that’s why i do it. Moreover, Blizzard wants us to allin:
Terran has no good lategame army except the “Skyterran” in the superlategame with Raven-Battlecruiser-Viking, which can be killed in seconds by chain fungal and is very hard to transition to because you have too few Starports and no upgrades for it. Other than that, the current metagame trend goes towards less Tanks, bio play is getting more popular: you need less upgrades, you are more mobile and you can replace your army faster when everything died because of chain fungal.
Tanks are getting replaced because it is easier to split your bio against marines than getting tanks in a good position to kill banelings and infestors, and here is why:

The maps are really big; with the recent queen change, the Zerg player gets more queens earlier on, therefore has more creep and because of the creep on the map the terran push is way slower and gets shut down more easily when he has Tanks. Tanks need to be sieged when the attack comes because the first seconds of a fight are the deciding point: when there are too many lings after the first few hits the terran just gets surrounded and killed.

I don’t say it is currently impossible to beat a zerg, but it is very hard when you want to do it after the midgame mark.

Infestors are also too strong: their “counter”, Ghosts, got nerfed so hard that not even pro players use them in this matchup any more. In my opinion, the Ghost or the Raven should always play a role in a Terran matchup because they are the only Terran spellcasters; but the Ghost is too slow and its range and EMP radius too small to do something against Infestors. Moreover, if you have energy left after you used your main spell as a Zerg player (fungal) you can use the rest of the energy for Infested Terrans. I like that idea, but as a Terran player, the spell you can use after EMP is snipe which deals 25 damage ( to Not-Infestor units). 2 snipes for a zergling seem more than unfair; it should be rewarding to be used on the big units like Broodlords and Ultralisks again, because that would be a good way to deal with the techswitches. And two snipes for a single Infestor is just too much, even Protoss has a better way to deal with them (just a single feedback).

When Ghosts were used in TvZ lategame, Zerg players said is was unfair that Terran can kill everything with them and I had to laugh; Terran is not the reactionary race. Terran can not techswitch as easy as Zerg can do and Terran needs extra upgrades for its lategame units.

The infestor can kill everything (like the Ghost did), too, and even better. It has area damage, detection, can burrow and - the unfairest attribute in the game - chain fungal: when you make one small mistake, you can be fungaled to death. Medivacs can not escape, Marine groups can not escape while not even being able to shoot at the Infestors at all and even Ghosts get detected and fungaled to death. Tanks also can not siege nor run away.

Again, like in TvP, the game becomes unfair when it goes to the lategame and “Terran did no damage in the midgame to stay even.”

You can not use a progamer as an example how to play, because it is a completly different game they play: much more apm they can use, specific timed builds strike at a timing and preparation to snipe a certain player on a certain map are things I can not use as a casual player on the ladder.


With all this unfairness, why should I be playing the ladder to compete any more? The game is unfair when you are a Terran player and I don’t want to start a game I lost at the race selection screen!



Thanks for reading; please no balance discussion unless you are directly answering my problems with the balance or proving me wrong.

*
"Oink oink, bitches" - Tasteless on Pigbaby winning a map against Flash
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32274 Posts
July 16 2012 11:59 GMT
#2
Balance whines are not fun at all :/
Moderator<:3-/-<
Feiya
Profile Joined September 2010
Germany42 Posts
July 16 2012 12:05 GMT
#3
so currently you are masters. Terran seems underpowered to you, but guess what. HOTS is coming. So many terrans are crying about their race right now, but the only ones who should really be bothered by this are the Pro Ts imo. The usual masters Terran should just forget balance for a few months and enjoy his mechanics and micro in HOTS rather than stop playing at all and coming back to HOTS just to find out all them diamonds took ur masters spot.
PuddingTiger
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom62 Posts
July 16 2012 12:30 GMT
#4
yeah this is just one big balance whine. also check out the data here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786

In masters and above the game is very closely balanced. There is never more than a 60/40 split during any timing window in any matchup. Yes, you will lose a few more games in late game TvP, but it will be 40/60 split, not like you will lose every game. If you really can't deal with losing 1/10 late game TvPs/TvZs that you would otherwise have won had the game been perfecftly balanced, you can't really claim to have much passion for the game anyway. If you are worrying about the game being unfair rather than just doing your best and trying to improve then you will probably lose more.

If you really want to be given a reason to play the game rather than just vent your anger over balance issues? Consider the fact that perhaps your anger at losing is making the game feel more unfair than it acutally is. It is easier to whine about balance rather than accept you got outplayed and try to improve, which, most of the time, is what will have happened.
Flip9
Profile Joined June 2012
Germany151 Posts
July 16 2012 12:40 GMT
#5
What is it with this threads... If you dont see a reason to play 1v1 then dont play it. Simple as that.
SnowFantasy
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
4173 Posts
July 16 2012 12:44 GMT
#6
On July 16 2012 21:30 PuddingTiger wrote:
yeah this is just one big balance whine. also check out the data here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786

In masters and above the game is very closely balanced. There is never more than a 60/40 split during any timing window in any matchup. Yes, you will lose a few more games in late game TvP, but it will be 40/60 split, not like you will lose every game. If you really can't deal with losing 1/10 late game TvPs/TvZs that you would otherwise have won had the game been perfecftly balanced, you can't really claim to have much passion for the game anyway. If you are worrying about the game being unfair rather than just doing your best and trying to improve then you will probably lose more.

If you really want to be given a reason to play the game rather than just vent your anger over balance issues? Consider the fact that perhaps your anger at losing is making the game feel more unfair than it acutally is. It is easier to whine about balance rather than accept you got outplayed and try to improve, which, most of the time, is what will have happened.


60/40 is ridiculously imbalanced.
eu.exodus
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
South Africa1186 Posts
July 16 2012 12:49 GMT
#7
dont bitch about it. if you think its really that bad, just quit. your opinion is your own.

You dont need anyone's permission.
6 poll is a good skill toi have
Murlox
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France1699 Posts
July 16 2012 12:55 GMT
#8
On July 16 2012 21:05 Feiya wrote:
so currently you are masters. Terran seems underpowered to you, but guess what. HOTS is coming. So many terrans are crying about their race right now, but the only ones who should really be bothered by this are the Pro Ts imo.


wtf... These sort of comments are getting very old now.

Why can't anyone enjoy the game at any level? The game is not designed only for pro gamers to have fun, I doubt they actually seek fun anyway.

The man has every right to express his despair about playing Terran. And be bothered by the frustration that is non-GM Korean level late game in TvP TvZ.


OT : I agree with what you say in TvP, TvZ. It really feels that Terran has a death clock ticking against them in both those matchups, therefore can not chose to just sit and wait for divine intervention T3, while the other races seem to have that luxury, which is unfair.

Beyond that, MMM in every matchup is simply plain boring.

I don't have a solution. Custom Games...
Resistance ain't futile
HeeroFX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States2704 Posts
July 16 2012 13:06 GMT
#9
I play Terran as well, I just play for fun, I figured there is no point in worrying about the fact Terran is weak right now. I just find ways to play the game I want to play. I do get frustrated, when I lose sometimes, but then I go and play something else/do something else. I figure HOTS beta is coming sometime, and I want to get that Nova icon (only like 15 more wins away!) Once I have that I might go for team icons or play another race(and wreck my league standing lololol blizzard, need unranked games thanks) Either way don't get stressed about it just play and have fun, you aren't stephano getting $30,000 on the weekend for playing the game, so yeah no pressure just ladder when you want too who knows maybe this mindset will make it more fun for you?

P.S custom games are fun there are so many creative ones out there, that are easy and fun.
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32049 Posts
July 16 2012 13:23 GMT
#10
abusing the word metagame, balance whining... why should I read blogs anymore 1/5

PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
July 16 2012 13:25 GMT
#11
please no balance discussion

rofl

okay then.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21965 Posts
July 16 2012 14:08 GMT
#12
I know what you mean, T is my fav race, but I prefer playing random at the risk of remaining in a lower league than going competitive by picking a race that feels so weak at times that you lose the fun of playing.

I'm kinda torn on the ghost.
+ Show Spoiler +
I remember playing a custom ZvT vs a masters Terran on Shakuras.
He was playing in a way that didn't aim for a quick win, me being diamond he could have achieved that pretty fast if he wanted. Instead he just took as many bases as possible and started turtling on the standard stuff for lategame at that time: MMM, tank, ghosts. 2 PF in the middle, 1 for each choke @ the xel'nagas.

I tech switched like 5 times from ultras to bl and viceversa, and all he did to defend it was to snipe both of them with ghosts staying around the pfs. I kinda ran out of stamina at the point he started sending his bio to kill me. The remaining efficient comp was infestor ling bling, when he was at my nat I gg'd.


I think Blizzard simply didn't like the fact that ghosts could replace both marauders and vikings at just a slightly higher cost.
And I think they were right with it.
Now you have to snipe infestors and EMP protoss units, but you can barely use ghosts against anything else except for nuke harass.

TvP I don't see a problem in EMPing. It's just that the low mobility and the clunky animations of the ghosts in TvZ let you kill at best one infestor before the ghosts get chopped down by lings, but I've already asked about this in the Terran help me thread :> .

Yes, I find both the ghost nerf and the queen buff ok. But I think a good solution to the queen problem would be to allow only two queens per finished hatchery. That way a z can have 1 queen for injects and 1 for creepspread/def/heal per expansion, but can't use them for early game defensive purposes only.

For the ghost, I wish they had higher movement speed and instant spells.


If you like my idea, send it to Blizzard cause I'm too lazy.
Maggost
Profile Joined August 2011
Venezuela296 Posts
July 16 2012 14:20 GMT
#13
On July 16 2012 20:46 graNite wrote:
Dear TL community, please tell me why I should play the 1v1 ladder any more. I am a terran player at the Master league and currently I see no point in playing 1v1 ladder.


Congratz on get to Masters, but hey, i started from Bronze since season 1 and i am in gold (zerg) and i still thinking on playing ladder even i lose more than winning.
Quote
Smancer
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States379 Posts
July 16 2012 14:27 GMT
#14
I just allin every game and it works 80% of the time


So you can achieve an 80% win rate versus Zerg, yet they are overpowered? Sounds to me like Zerg needs a buff to deal with this.
A good way to threaten somebody is to light a stick of dynamite. Then you call the guy and hold the burning fuse up to the phone. "Hear that?" you say. "That's dynamite, baby."
jeeeeohn
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States1343 Posts
July 16 2012 14:36 GMT
#15
Stop playing if you're not enjoying the game. I'm curious to know why this is always a crisis. How has Starcraft 2 hardwired us to keep playing so thoroughly that the idea of quitting becomes this blasphemous heresy?
If you can't jam with the best, then you have to slam with the rest.
Integra
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Sweden5626 Posts
July 16 2012 14:42 GMT
#16
This is why Terran deserves all the nerfs they get. "I ONLY GET 80% WIN RATE EARLY GAME, THEREFOR ZERG OP"
"Dark Pleasure" | | I survived the Locust war of May 3, 2014
PuddingTiger
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom62 Posts
July 16 2012 16:10 GMT
#17
On July 16 2012 21:44 SnowFantasy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 16 2012 21:30 PuddingTiger wrote:
yeah this is just one big balance whine. also check out the data here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351786

In masters and above the game is very closely balanced. There is never more than a 60/40 split during any timing window in any matchup. Yes, you will lose a few more games in late game TvP, but it will be 40/60 split, not like you will lose every game. If you really can't deal with losing 1/10 late game TvPs/TvZs that you would otherwise have won had the game been perfecftly balanced, you can't really claim to have much passion for the game anyway. If you are worrying about the game being unfair rather than just doing your best and trying to improve then you will probably lose more.

If you really want to be given a reason to play the game rather than just vent your anger over balance issues? Consider the fact that perhaps your anger at losing is making the game feel more unfair than it acutally is. It is easier to whine about balance rather than accept you got outplayed and try to improve, which, most of the time, is what will have happened.


60/40 is ridiculously imbalanced.


I'd say its problematic rather than ridiculous - can you really say that having a 10% worse winrate vP in long games is ridiculous? And remember that is just one particular time window - late game rather than very late game (35 mins+) where T actually does better than P. I'm not saying that it's ok - I would prefer a game that was balanced the whole way through too, but I hardly think it's something that should stop someone playing.
Embir
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland567 Posts
July 16 2012 16:22 GMT
#18
Man Im totally with you on this subject. I am playing Terran too and vP and vZ are horrendous ATM. It so discouraging knowing that Toss and Zerg can safely turtle up and completely destroy you in the lategame, when you furiously APM your heart out, playing against the clock. Game is fucked up at the moment. It is damn shame, I thought I would play more than those 2 years...
MattBarry
Profile Joined March 2011
United States4006 Posts
July 16 2012 17:48 GMT
#19
You shouldn't, video games are to have fun. Clearly, if you're not having fun you need to stop playing. Try different RTSs like Brood War or C&C: Generals.
Platinum Support GOD
_mmK
Profile Joined May 2012
Sweden10 Posts
July 16 2012 17:53 GMT
#20
On July 16 2012 23:27 Smancer wrote:
Show nested quote +
I just allin every game and it works 80% of the time


So you can achieve an 80% win rate versus Zerg, yet they are overpowered? Sounds to me like Zerg needs a buff to deal with this.


Ohhh god, really did you even read the op. He allins every TvZ and has found a good allin for the metagame, he wins casue zergs are so gready right now and you suggest zergs need a buff so they can defend an allin no problem while being really gready... ooohhh wait, you're problably a troll and I just fell for it, gg wp then... wp..
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