Disclaimer - I'm not an "achievement collector" (I do like to try to 100% single player games though). In fact I didn't bother with SC2 collector's edition, Blizzcon tickets (For the exclusive portrait + decal), or even DIII collector's edition.
*They don't have to played or downloaded DIII at all to receive it.
Now I'm sure other companies have done it before (Maybe Valve with TF2? Though was the beta closed or open?) but IMO I think companies shouldn't unless there:
1. There is a warning (in this case, there wasn't). Unlike other "Feat of Strength" (AFAIK, never play WoW), there wasn't any warning. (Also the "Hot Shot achievement can be earned in SC2 by waiting a season which resets your MMR.)
2. A way to obtain it that isn't solely determined by random number generator (or refreshing the twitter page every 5 seconds).
OR
3. They're used to it or it's a big part of the game already that only a select few get special stuff (basically most MMOs).
(In fact I think some people actually protested the golden wrench thing in TF2. A few people with the wrenches even destroyed it to protest against Valve or something. I do remember it being unfair and there was a known way to actually cheat it.)
(In return I think Valve added the Trophy weapon which does the same thing but better since all classes can use it. It was rewarded from doing a video contest rather than mostly chance; of course sadly you can't show that you're a hispter nerd with that.)
"They are exclusive to the launch event, yes. So years from now someone will say "ware u giet dat sygyl?" you can say "QUIET HEATHEN! This sigil was bestoweth upon thy banner by the launch site." and they'll be all like "oooooh... wuz thattt?" and then you slay them and take their ear."
Also this video (someone posted and it matches):
Anyway, I have experienced how fun it can be + I noticed a lot like to collect it even here in TL (of course mainly in the single player forums). In cases like that, I can understand how people will feel really bad missing out on something.
I'm not sure about WoW but (besides WoW as it hasn't been done in SC2... yet) this was the only time they offered an achievement or feat of strength that is completely due to the Random Number Generator "and" that players can't try to influence (so it's not like trying to get a drop from a monster, you can't influence it).
Not only that, players didn't know ahead of time either (like other "Feat of Strength").
For the Blizzcon achievements (starting with 2010 or maybe it was 2009), even if you couldn't get a ticket, if you bought the weekend viewership on the Blizzard site, you'd get the portrait + decal too.
The Collector's Editions aren't too limited and with advance planning, one can obtain them (Even for the D3 collector's edition which had times where it stayed on sale for a week a while).
I can understand how this would upset people who like to (try) to get 100% ("true 100%" which includes FoS or bonus stuff) on a game.
I mean sure it's fine to make an exclusive FoS called *"SC2 Bonjwa" and only an SC2 Bonjwa can get it. People who try to get 100% won't mind because you can say people who get it earned it (or at least wasn't just some RNG).
*They should really make a FoS like that actually... then reward it to Nestea (because I know Dustin Browder is a big fan of Nestea) then outrage (on these very forums) occur because Blizzard wrongly defines a bonjwa. Then the next SotG will be spent discussing this very thing.
Anyway, Diablo III is a whole different story. People who even like RPGs are probably more likely the ones who like to collect stuff (which includes achievements + FoS). And doing this where only a random number selected people get it is being insensitive to those who well like to collect stuff.
SC2, no one really cares about achievements (hence why SC2 collector's edition are still being sold at about the same price since it came out).D3 is different of course (CE sold out + the game being an item collecting game).
Honestly I thought the Diablo III class sigil prelaunch thing was unfair too. Sure people who'd check the website daily would get it but I'm sure there are plenty of people (who may be big Diablo fans but may not have time to check the site or may just simply want to avoid all D3 related news) who probably missed out on it (and unfortunately they'd have no way of providing evidence that they're hipster nerds to others).
Basically, the point of the blog is to defend those who were unhappy with Blizzard's decision (where the typical response is "¯\_(ツ)_/¯" or "umad" on b.net forums).
What Blizzard should have done? Either not reward it at all "OR" provide a warning + provide it to open beta testers (those who actually downloaded it) and closed beta testers.
Of course you can say in a "perfect world" (where people aren't complaining of first world's probelm all the time), people would get over it... but... [Artosis Voice] NO!!! In a perfect world there would be no first world's problems in the first place >.>.
Anyway, thanks Blizzard for introducing a first world's problem!
In all seriousness though, there were much better ways for Blizzard to reward that FoS.
Disclaimer (again) - I don't care about the FoS and merely just wanted to post this to provide some insight to why I think Blizzard should have done something else with that FoS.
On May 10 2012 16:12 Goldfish wrote: Honestly I thought the Diablo III class sigil prelaunch thing was unfair too. Sure people who'd check the website daily would get it but I'm sure there are plenty of people (who may be big Diablo fans but may not have time to check the site or may just simply want to avoid all D3 related news) who probably missed out on it (and unfortunately they'd have no way of providing evidence that they're hipster nerds to others).
You can still claim all of those until 18th May. I didn't pick up any till tomorrow when I got all of them.
Although they're almost as pointless as the Feat of Strength but something to fuel ones obsession while waiting the launch I suppose.
Couldn't care less on either case really, if they gave the best item in the game for people that got beta invite maybe then.
I love achievement hunting, and I must admit that I think it's really stupid to give out a feat of strength based on randomness rather than player dedication, but it's still just a FoS, not an actual achievement, so I guess I'm okay with this. Won't really make a difference in the long run.
I think you're confusing the point of FoS with achievements. In WoW, FoS were used as achievements which were not available to everyone. For example, if a patch rendered an existing acievement impossible to get, it would be converted to a Feat of Strength. That's basically the whole reason for distinguishing between feats and achievements; feats don't have to be obtainable at all times or for everybody, whereas achievements do.
I have to agree with HaXXspetten for the most part. I'm a pretty big achievement whore. Mainly for Xbox 360, WoW and Sc2. And I love trying to get them all. FoS do still have a lot of value to me though. Mosly in WoW, achievements say "Hey, I completed this. Pretty awesome right?" but the FoS say "Well I actually got these achievements back in the day when they were available". They also are a reminder of awesome moments I experienced in the past.
This Diablo FoS kinda says that aswell. But unlike every other FoS this achievement is completely random. Most FoS where actually available to everyone. But they later became unavailable. And some like the FoS for Sc2 when you got the Cataclysm CE where availabkle aswell but it depended on whether you wanted to spend more money on a CE version.
For this one you had to be lucky to get into the closed beta. The players themselves didn't have any input to increase there chances of getting it. I believe this is what makes most of the people mad. Personally I don't really like it either but I can make due without it. Would be nice if Blizzard decided to do what the OP suggested though.
When they label something as a FoS they're basically saying "don't expect to get this." I tried so many times to get my Zulian Tiger (http://www.wowhead.com/achievement=880), but it was a low drop rate, you could only try it once every 3 days, AND they eventually took it out of the game. It never really bothered me when I saw other people riding around on one though, since I knew it was just RNG.
There were contest to get a beta key, iirc if you bought a blizzcon ticket or went to blizzcon you got a d3 beta key as well. It's not completely random when you've had chances.
I think it's really dumb. Feat of strength is just an achivement, but with the added "Fuck you" that you can't actually get it, so it has a different name to soften the blow. The fact that the blow has to be softened is what proves it's a retarded concept. Achivements are decently useless as is, adding in a "different kind of achivement" which just pisses people of is beyond stupid. It was dumb in WoW but at least you generally could work to get it, where as this one in D3 is just ridiculous, people are pissed enough that they weren't invited to the beta even though they signed up for it immediately, especially since almost no keys went out outside of NA... now they want to add an extra insult to injury.
I don't know what blizzard are thinking, 99% of the people who get this FoS won't give a shit but it will piss a ton of people off.
On May 10 2012 18:41 Shockk wrote: The amount of artificial outrage this non-issue has sparked on the various D3 boards and communities is ridiculous.
I agree. I have a feeling it's only a big deal because of the whole "one week till release so there is nothing else to talk about" problem. If they had just put it in the game without announcing it, nobody would give a shit because they're all happy playing D3.
Honestly I thought the Diablo III class sigil prelaunch thing was unfair too. Sure people who'd check the website daily would get it but I'm sure there are plenty of people (who may be big Diablo fans but may not have time to check the site or may just simply want to avoid all D3 related news) who probably missed out on it (and unfortunately they'd have no way of providing evidence that they're hipster nerds to others).
I'm one of those people who purposely avoids any news about games, so I had never heard of this. I went and did the things on that site and unlocked whatever it is I unlocked. So thanks, I guess, lol.
It's not really the FoS that bugs me. It's the in-game sigil and knowing how bad I wanted it beta, now they give beta users an exclusive thing. It's just kind of a slap in the face imo. I think the reveal thing though, was pretty fair. Everyone had the chance to get them and each must have been up for like a week or so. Beta however is random chance.. What about open beta people? I just don't like how this was handled
I found the achievement "dedicated fan" in SC2 kinda annoying, since you got it from buying the collectors edition. Not that it matters much but a lot of people (like me) have been playing blizzard games since the last millenium, yet some dickface that pays 30 euros (or something) more for his disc is suddenly a dedicated fan..
On May 10 2012 19:22 Firepaw292 wrote: It's not really the FoS that bugs me. It's the in-game sigil and knowing how bad I wanted it beta, now they give beta users an exclusive thing. It's just kind of a slap in the face imo. I think the reveal thing though, was pretty fair. Everyone had the chance to get them and each must have been up for like a week or so. Beta however is random chance.. What about open beta people? I just don't like how this was handled
Exactly how I feel. It sucked so much never getting in to the closed beta, and then to be like "oh and here's an exclusive sigil you can't get for not being allowed to play" is just like a serious middle finger. I checked my email every day for months in the hope I'd get in to beta. The FoS is nice but ultimately meaningless so fine do that (still wrong IMO, but it's alright) but to give an additional in game reward is screwed up.
If it included Open Beta that would be more reasonable because then literally everyone had the same chance, but this is just wrong.
i'm happy that there is an achievement for the people who got chosen into beta. sadly, we didn't have that for sc2, but maybe because it was their first public beta and it just wasn't long enough )(like 3,5 months in total?). D3 beta was 7 months
i'm in the beta since December and am happy for this feat of strength =)
I honestly was laughing my ass off reading that whole thread. So many people whining over something that first off appears in a video game, and second off doesn't even DO anything in that video game! Some people are really out of touch of reality...
On May 10 2012 22:22 Zach426 wrote: I honestly was laughing my ass off reading that whole thread. So many people whining over something that first off appears in a video game, and second off doesn't even DO anything in that video game! Some people are really out of touch of reality...
Weird argument. Other people were lucky enough to get to play the beta way longer than the rest of us... and now Blizzard wants to give them extra things in the game?
You have to have a really wierd sense of "reality" if you don't see how this is dumb as shit.
1 - You can still get 100% achievements, feat of strength don't count towards progress 2 - Look at SC2 feat of strength; there are some pretty exclusive ones. No one cried about them.
-Buy Blizzcon ticket -Buy CE -Buy WoW cataclysm CE
It's just something they add to your account to say : Hey, you were in the beta or in this event!
3 - There will be a buy the CE FoS as well, no one crying about that one.
This is the most ridiculous thing to get angry about I've ever heard of. "First world problem" doesn't even cut it here. Find a new reason to hate on Blizzard.
On May 10 2012 16:12 Goldfish wrote: Honestly I thought the Diablo III class sigil prelaunch thing was unfair too. Sure people who'd check the website daily would get it but I'm sure there are plenty of people (who may be big Diablo fans but may not have time to check the site or may just simply want to avoid all D3 related news) who probably missed out on it (and unfortunately they'd have no way of providing evidence that they're hipster nerds to others).
You can still claim all of those until 18th May. I didn't pick up any till tomorrow when I got all of them.
Although they're almost as pointless as the Feat of Strength but something to fuel ones obsession while waiting the launch I suppose.
Couldn't care less on either case really, if they gave the best item in the game for people that got beta invite maybe then.
Exactly, they basically update the normal B.net site too every week with a class update. It's on every fansite. I mean if you've missed the whole reveal site you probably don't really care that much. Most of my friends also don't care much at all for the sigils when I tell them about them.
I also think it's kinda unfair to give players who are already blessed with the beta another extra. But just a sigil isn't the end of the world. Just a way to show that you were in beta, nothing else. And like every feat of strength, it isn't included in the 100%, so it won't even be listed anywhere, but under the FoS tab.
On May 10 2012 23:50 Kurr wrote: 1 - You can still get 100% achievements, feat of strength don't count towards progress 2 - Look at SC2 feat of strength; there are some pretty exclusive ones. No one cried about them.
-Buy Blizzcon ticket -Buy CE -Buy WoW cataclysm CE
It's just something they add to your account to say : Hey, you were in the beta or in this event!
3 - There will be a buy the CE FoS as well, no one crying about that one.
This is the most ridiculous thing to get angry about I've ever heard of. "First world problem" doesn't even cut it here. Find a new reason to hate on Blizzard.
Difference being that you can buy the CE to get the FoS, and CEs almost always give out things in-game, cosmetic stuff. I don't mind people paying more for the game getting something cute. But tons of people wanted that beta badly and didn't get it and now they won't get that FoS either.
It doesn't matter how useless the FoS is, it's an issue of principle, you don't kick your own fans in their balls.
On May 10 2012 23:50 Kurr wrote: 1 - You can still get 100% achievements, feat of strength don't count towards progress 2 - Look at SC2 feat of strength; there are some pretty exclusive ones. No one cried about them.
-Buy Blizzcon ticket -Buy CE -Buy WoW cataclysm CE
It's just something they add to your account to say : Hey, you were in the beta or in this event!
3 - There will be a buy the CE FoS as well, no one crying about that one.
This is the most ridiculous thing to get angry about I've ever heard of. "First world problem" doesn't even cut it here. Find a new reason to hate on Blizzard.
Difference being that you can buy the CE to get the FoS, and CEs almost always give out things in-game, cosmetic stuff. I don't mind people paying more for the game getting something cute. But tons of people wanted that beta badly and didn't get it and now they won't get that FoS either.
It doesn't matter how useless the FoS is, it's an issue of principle, you don't kick your own fans in their balls.
So you must hate the Blizzcon one too right? Those get sold out immediatly so it's unfair to give people a feat of strength when they were lucky enough to go to Blizzcon!
That thread was pretty insane lol but even I understand the bitterness for some people who went to extremes and got nothing and now miss out on a lil more. Would of been better for Blizz to do this after the game came out i think.
Well, i get it because i am better then you ofcourse! But seriously, its a title, based on some random crap. Not like you have defeated Inferno with your feet or something, it shows nothing and tells nothing.
On May 10 2012 22:22 Zach426 wrote: I honestly was laughing my ass off reading that whole thread. So many people whining over something that first off appears in a video game, and second off doesn't even DO anything in that video game! Some people are really out of touch of reality...
Weird argument. Other people were lucky enough to get to play the beta way longer than the rest of us... and now Blizzard wants to give them extra things in the game?
You have to have a really wierd sense of "reality" if you don't see how this is dumb as shit.
LOL you sir, who is bent out of shape over some pixelated title on a video game, are the one who has lost his touch with reality. I really feel bad for you bud.
On May 10 2012 18:41 Shockk wrote: The amount of artificial outrage this non-issue has sparked on the various D3 boards and communities is ridiculous.
I agree. The fact that some people are getting their panties in a twist over a feat of strength is mindblowing. Or, perhaps not mindblowing, since one would expect bnet forum denizens to complain about everything, but this is a little extreme even by those standards. The only people who should be complaining are an incredibly small (I pray) group who value achievements over gameplay, and the FoS doesn't even count on any official achievement list. IT MAKES NO SENSE.
It's perfectly fine for Blizz to give a little pat on the back to their beta testers IMO. They had the opportunity to test it, so props to them, they get a worthless extra title, it's not like it even offers an in-game advantage.
On May 10 2012 18:41 Shockk wrote: The amount of artificial outrage this non-issue has sparked on the various D3 boards and communities is ridiculous.
I agree. The fact that some people are getting their panties in a twist over a feat of strength is mindblowing. Or, perhaps not mindblowing, since one would expect bnet forum denizens to complain about everything, but this is a little extreme even by those standards. The only people who should be complaining are an incredibly small (I pray) group who value achievements over gameplay, and the FoS doesn't even count on any official achievement list. IT MAKES NO SENSE.
It's perfectly fine for Blizz to give a little pat on the back to their beta testers IMO. They had the opportunity to test it, so props to them, they get a worthless extra title, it's not like it even offers an in-game advantage.
It is a banner sigil and a feat of strength. I think it's kinda messed up for Blizzard to basically say "Hey, remember that beta you really wanted to get in on for the last year and couldn't? Well those that did get lucky also get something else you can't have for getting to play our game early too, even if they never even did anything!" but some of the comments on it on B.Net you would think it's the end of the world.
I cancelled my CE of ME3 over the way they handled their DLC, in this case it's maybe worth a "well that sucks...".
On May 10 2012 18:41 Shockk wrote: The amount of artificial outrage this non-issue has sparked on the various D3 boards and communities is ridiculous.
I agree. The fact that some people are getting their panties in a twist over a feat of strength is mindblowing. Or, perhaps not mindblowing, since one would expect bnet forum denizens to complain about everything, but this is a little extreme even by those standards. The only people who should be complaining are an incredibly small (I pray) group who value achievements over gameplay, and the FoS doesn't even count on any official achievement list. IT MAKES NO SENSE.
It's perfectly fine for Blizz to give a little pat on the back to their beta testers IMO. They had the opportunity to test it, so props to them, they get a worthless extra title, it's not like it even offers an in-game advantage.
It is a banner sigil and a feat of strength. I think it's kinda messed up for Blizzard to basically say "Hey, remember that beta you really wanted to get in on for the last year and couldn't? Well those that did get lucky also get something else you can't have for getting to play our game early too, even if they never even did anything!" but some of the comments on it on B.Net you would think it's the end of the world.
I cancelled my CE of ME3 over the way they handled their DLC, in this case it's maybe worth a "well that sucks...".
I think it's a matter of how much emotional investment you had in getting the beta. I beta-tested HoN for a fairly long period before it came out, I bought the game before it was released, and when it went F2P I got super-nice benefits because I was in it (relatively) early and helped the devs test their game. The companies don't give stuff to their beta testers as "fuck you" to people who weren't beta testers, and it's really really small-minded and idiotic to think of it that way. If anyone had reason to get mad at anybody, it was the people who came in to HoN after it went F2P but didn't have legacy accounts. But even when I played HoN after the switch, nobody went "OMG HE WAS A BETA TESTER FUCK S2," even though I technically had a huge advantage over some of them because I could pick any hero while they couldn't. There was nowhere near as much outrage because most people thought it was fair for the beta testers to be rewarded in some way, especially those who had put money down on the game.
Now here's what different with the D3 beta crap. In HoN what happened was ok because we had put money down on the game while it was in development and stuff, so we got to keep our all the benefits of our old-style legacy accounts. In D3 beta, there were no benefits, there was no change of business model, nobody who was in the beta inherits any game-altering abilities or significant way of putting themselves ahead of someone who was not in the beta. All they get is a cosmetic bonus because they helped test the game as it went through content changes/adjustments. That's it. And people have the gall to be outraged over that? All this rage over a cosmetic change whose only significance is distinguishing beta testers from non-beta testers? That's fucking retarded.
On May 10 2012 23:50 Kurr wrote: 1 - You can still get 100% achievements, feat of strength don't count towards progress 2 - Look at SC2 feat of strength; there are some pretty exclusive ones. No one cried about them.
-Buy Blizzcon ticket -Buy CE -Buy WoW cataclysm CE
It's just something they add to your account to say : Hey, you were in the beta or in this event!
3 - There will be a buy the CE FoS as well, no one crying about that one.
This is the most ridiculous thing to get angry about I've ever heard of. "First world problem" doesn't even cut it here. Find a new reason to hate on Blizzard.
Difference being that you can buy the CE to get the FoS, and CEs almost always give out things in-game, cosmetic stuff. I don't mind people paying more for the game getting something cute. But tons of people wanted that beta badly and didn't get it and now they won't get that FoS either.
It doesn't matter how useless the FoS is, it's an issue of principle, you don't kick your own fans in their balls.
So you must hate the Blizzcon one too right? Those get sold out immediatly so it's unfair to give people a feat of strength when they were lucky enough to go to Blizzcon!
about those sigils, i thought you would have to send a picture of yourself dressed as the chaaracter to get the sigil? you don't have to??? and you can still caim them till 18th may?? tell me how^^
edit: found out how! just create a banner and submit! nice, you can get them all now, no need to wait for specific days/weeks to create a certain characters banner. claim your sigil until the 18th May or it will be too late! =)
On May 10 2012 18:41 Shockk wrote: The amount of artificial outrage this non-issue has sparked on the various D3 boards and communities is ridiculous.
I agree. The fact that some people are getting their panties in a twist over a feat of strength is mindblowing. Or, perhaps not mindblowing, since one would expect bnet forum denizens to complain about everything, but this is a little extreme even by those standards. The only people who should be complaining are an incredibly small (I pray) group who value achievements over gameplay, and the FoS doesn't even count on any official achievement list. IT MAKES NO SENSE.
It's perfectly fine for Blizz to give a little pat on the back to their beta testers IMO. They had the opportunity to test it, so props to them, they get a worthless extra title, it's not like it even offers an in-game advantage.
It sucks to play WoW, want to collect everything there is to the game, and find out theres a ton of stuff you can never get because they decided to make it exclusive years before you even started. D3 was a fresh start for collectors, and they start it off by shitting on everyone who didn't get randomly picked to beta test (play d3 exclusively for free). It burns a hole in my heart having to see that and knowing that as stupid as I am to continue completing the game, it'll forever be incomplete.
EPT
