|
Among other racist insults.
This blog is of course motivated by the recent Destiny and Orb drama, but aims towards a more general question that has been running through my head.
Let me state a few things before you reply :
- I believe that xenophobia and consequently racism are very common at diverse degrees (if you disagree with me, see WWII, the war in Serbia, the war in Armenia, MLK, the stoning of Italian and Spanish immigrants in France at the beginning of the 20th century, and every crisis where people show their true faces).
- I don't care that much about Destiny and Orb so please don't bring them up in this thread.
- I don't see many people using racial insults around me, and almost never in an offensive way.
As I started playing SC2, one thing that I found very odd is the fact that people would call me "nigger" when they BMed. I wondered, is this an American thing, a remain of what was once a racial war?
Some others called me a faggot, and this I understood better. To be completely honest, I'm slightly homophobic myself - and I admit it without shame, because there's nothing I can do about it - and while I've always been respectful to the gay community and fully support gay marriage and adoption, I understand the "feminine" stereotype. To call someone a "faggot" is to say that they are "lame" because they don't "have balls". It's the same in France, people use the word "pédé" (pronounced "paeday") to mock on someone's lack of courage and bravery. This is of course unfounded but we can at least see where it originates from.
French people also have their own racial obsessions : mainly Arabs, and Blacks to a lesser extent. But there is no common insult that sprouts from this hate. If I play someone online and he's pissed, he won't call me an "Arab" because, well, he has no reson to assume I'm one.
In this case, the existing insult would be "dirty Arab" ("'sale arabe") and is already a strong one. Not only that, but it's directed only towards people from the Makhreb. You simply don't call a white person a "dirty Arab". This means that the term "Arab" holds no pejorative meaning in itself, as the insult is only directed towards the presence of these people on "white territory". To make it offensive, you even have to add the word "dirty" before.
This is why I don't understand how people can call me "nigger" on the ladder. What is the stereotypical idea behind it? What traits are black people supposed to have that are embodied in the N word?
From what I seem to understand, the idea of the word "nigger" is inferiority. Then how is it OK to use it everyday? Doesn't it express the sincere belief that black people are in fact inferior?
N-word users, or others, enlighten me.
  
|
only ignorant people use "nigger" to bm other people on the ladder. trying to understand their rationality behind using the word is an exercise in futility.
|
Well, what interests me more is the meaning behind it. Some people have defended the use of the word "nigger" because they claim they're angry and they don't "mean" it, but mean what? How is that word supposed to be offensive? You don't run around calling people "lamps", because being called a lamp is not particularly offensive. So what's the idea begind the N word? And if someone gives it such a meaning, doesn't it actually mean that they kind of think it's true?
I mean, I don't call people "black" as an insult, because that word is neutral for me. If it wasn't then it would mean I have a strong opinion about blacks in general, no?
|
Even African American people call there own race the "N" word, it shouldn't even be considered a "Bad word" if anything it is nothing but a type of slang.
|
I'm from australia and we dont have many black people here.
I use the word nigger because its just another word in my offensive word dictionary. I throw in Arab, Jew, dumb Asian, fag, and anything else that comes to mind. They are all equal in my books.
I would never call a black person a nigger, unless he was my friend, and the same goes to the rest of them. My grandpa is Chinese, and I went to a school that was 70% Jewish kids. I couldn't be any less racist, but the words are good fun to use.
|
"Nigger" (I feel dirty just saying the word) is used, like so so many insults (at least in the American language) outside of context. The person calling you the N word on the internet does not actually think (I assume) that you are black. No more than someone calling you retarded thinks you suffer from a mental deficiency.
Insults like this one have become generic. There is no longer a specific meaning behind them. They are a general cathartic displayal of hate, anger, and frustration, without any explicit meaning behind them.
This has been true since childhood (ok, at least my childhood, I don't know exactly when this phenomenon began). I remember a conversation with my Dad when I was little (maybe 8?). I had a tendency to fixate on a certain insult and use it in all situations of frustration regardless of its direct applicability. At the time I had fixated on "idiot," and I directed it at my dad. He's not an idiot. He asked me why I called him that. I explained my above tendency to fixate on one insult at a time, and progress gradually to another. He asked me what was next. I said "jerk." He told me not to say that, and the conversation was over.
But it made me think. I was picking these insults so arbitrarily. They had lost any meaning beyond expressing the fact that I was upset about something. Anyways, just a little tangent that your blog reminded me of.
What I say is: let's go back to insulting each other meaningfully!!!
|
On May 02 2012 11:56 Sc2Corpse wrote:
Even African American people call there own race the "N" word, it shouldn't even be considered a "Bad word" if anything it is nothing but a type of slang.
But then why is an angry kid calling me a "nigger"? Isn't he trying to insult me?
Really, if it's just a random word then I don't see why people use it when they rage, with an aggressive attitude.
|
On May 02 2012 11:44 Kukaracha wrote:
Well, what interests me more is the meaning behind it. Some people have defended the use of the word "nigger" because they claim they're angry and they don't "mean" it, but mean what? How is that word supposed to be offensive? You don't run around calling people "lamps", because being called a lamp is not particularly offensive. So what's the idea begind the N word? And if someone gives it such a meaning, doesn't it actually mean that they kind of think it's true?
I mean, I don't call people "black" as an insult, because that word is neutral for me. If it wasn't then it would mean I have a strong opinion about blacks in general, no?
it is a derogatory term for black people; the word itself means black. when people use it and say they dont intend to use it derogatorily, they are just stupid because its by definition derogatory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger
|
I'd also like someone to explain how "gook" is more socially acceptable or less generally offensive than the N word. People like to talk about racism a lot, but you know what? This is what I call racism. We can all agree that racial slurs shouldn't be used like this or at all but why on earth is the N word worse? Or "gook" okay? In games they're just stupid terms used by careless people who can't think of anything more creative to say, which is pretty pathetic. But I'm a bit miffed that people are having a stronger reaction to Orb than Destiny when they've both done comparably reaction-inducing behavior. It all comes down to goddamn popularity. If Orb had a fan base Destiny's size then he might still be casting for EG. Regardless, don't you just wish that everyone who's ever had thoughts about racism or racist remarks would stay on the same page and not be against Orb but indifferent to Destiny because everyone loves the super-funny comedy man Destiny? I've got nothing against him, he's a great guy but the real problem lies in the community. And popularity is quite the influence.
|
Nigger these days is used as a more powerful version of faggot, I think. Probably because everyone's panties get up in a bunch everytime someone says it.
Also, over time, insults and their meaning get "diluted" due to continued exposure, so new insults and creative insults are necessary in order to trash talk.
|
On May 02 2012 12:00 Kukaracha wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 11:56 Sc2Corpse wrote:
Even African American people call there own race the "N" word, it shouldn't even be considered a "Bad word" if anything it is nothing but a type of slang. But then why is an angry kid calling me a "nigger"? Isn't he trying to insult me? Really, if it's just a random word then I don't see why people use it when they rage, with an aggressive attitude.
It has to do with the power of the word in the english language, there is no other word as strong. The only one that comes close is 'cunt.' You might have to be american to understand this, because its kinda an abstract thing that you cant really put into words.
|
On May 02 2012 11:58 run.at.me wrote:
I'm from australia and we dont have many black people here.
I use the word nigger because its just another word in my offensive word dictionary. I throw in Arab, Jew, dumb Asian, fag, and anything else that comes to mind. They are all equal in my books.
I would never call a black person a nigger, unless he was my friend, and the same goes to the rest of them. My grandpa is Chinese, and I went to a school that was 70% Jewish kids. I couldn't be any less racist, but the words are good fun to use.
Do you ever use any derogatory terms for white people from your offensive dictionary? I always thought it's weird how people often use derogatory terms for other races to insult other white people even if they are white themselves. Why not instead use derogatory terms for white people. Oh wait I forgot white people have no flaws so there is no way someone could feel insulted by being called something associated with being white, also as we have learned modern day white people are never racist so long they as don't admit to being one.
+ Show Spoiler + Open racism, makes it easier to tell who is actually racist. instead today a lot of people feel entitled to say nigger faggot gook but then as long as you say " its just words im not actually racist" people are actually expected to believe you or else because of the extremists on the opposite end of the spectrum you are considered to be trying to restrict their free speech and are labeling anyone who uses those words as some mega racist. -_-
|
On May 02 2012 12:11 Areon wrote:
I'd also like someone to explain how "gook" is more socially acceptable or less generally offensive than the N word. People like to talk about racism a lot, but you know what? This is what I call racism. We can all agree that racial slurs shouldn't be used like this or at all but why on earth is the N word worse? Or "gook" okay? In games they're just stupid terms used by careless people who can't think of anything more creative to say, which is pretty pathetic. But I'm a bit miffed that people are having a stronger reaction to Orb than Destiny when they've both done comparably reaction-inducing behavior. It all comes down to goddamn popularity. If Orb had a fan base Destiny's size then he might still be casting for EG. Regardless, don't you just wish that everyone who's ever had thoughts about racism or racist remarks would stay on the same page and not be against Orb but indifferent to Destiny because everyone loves the super-funny comedy man Destiny? I've got nothing against him, he's a great guy but the real problem lies in the community. And popularity is quite the influence.
Please, this isn't about Destiny and Orb. Wether it's "nigger" or "gook", I simply want to know how people justify their use of these words.
And to those who believe they are just insults like any other, then how come you don't call people white? And doesn't the term nigger, for example, perpetrate through common vocabulary a certain idea of black people, instead of "diluting" it?
French people used to call Germans "boches" as an insult. When the two countries came to a peaceful cohabitation, that word disappeared. It didn't proliferate until it became normal, because when can it ever be normal to have an insult directed towards the essence of who you are?
On May 02 2012 12:14 Nibbler89 wrote:
people are never racist so long they as don't admit to being one.
Also, this. Many people get out of this by saying "hey, we're not racist!" But to be honest, it just seems too easy, and I don't see many people willing to admit this sort of things in public.
|
Nigger has degraded into just another worthless demeaning word ever since rap embraced it.
|
Also, this. Many people get out of this by saying "hey, we're not racist!" But to be honest, it just seems too easy, and I don't see many people willing to admit this sort of things in public
The reason it's ridiculous is because everyone is pretty much a racist, everyone generalizes to some degree it just depends on how extreme your actions because of it are that determine whether you're an asshole or not. It doesn't have be as extreme as violence or even using racial slurs, it can be as simple as subconsciously feeling more comfortable approaching a person of your own race to make friends as opposed to another. It doesn't have to mean you are a card carrying nazi, just that it's there as part of who we are. If you are aware of it, you can catch yourself doing it and change it.
The most dangerous racists are the ones that are so ignorant they think they are 100% unbiased towards their own race/nationality. Because they are the ones that can't recognize when they are being biased because they think their bias doesn't exist. It's like a bronze player who thinks he's GM, in his mind he isn't making any mistakes.
If they are using derogatory language and say "i am 100% not racist" you pretty much know they are either lying or an idiot.
|
On May 02 2012 11:56 Sc2Corpse wrote:
Even African American people call there own race the "N" word, it shouldn't even be considered a "Bad word" if anything it is nothing but a type of slang.
Are you kidding me? Even though some black people call each other the "N" word, doesn't mean it doesn't hurt them in some way. Based upon the one black person whom I have talked to about this, someone saying the word who isn't black in a negative way is very harmful, and they still felt a bit of a shock when their brother started using the word regularly in his rap music, but he stopped because apparently it didn't feel right to him. The word still has an overwhelmingly large amount of power, which I personally don't understand because I am not black. It is not nothing but a type of slang.
|
Alright, I will answer your question op.
I'm sure you know what slavery is. In America during that time, the slaves were usually referred to as "N-----" by the white community. So when you call someone that word, you literally are saying that you believe the country should go back to the slave times. You also say that the other person should be a slave, and is inferior in every way possible, that their whole race is inferior, and their sole existence is to serve the whites.
In the middle of the 20th century, the black people in america began to gain some of the rights that the whites had, and achieve their dream of equality. As you can imagine, there were many people who did not like this, and reverted back to the N-word to show how they felt; that the blacks were made to be slaves, and they did not deserve those rights. That was about 60 years ago.
Now, only the people who lived during that time, and a small amount of others, know what that word really means. The younger generations don't realize what exactly comes along with the N-word, just that the word is terrible and should never be used. Because of this, it is used as a cuss word is today. The people you hear say that think it is on the same level as "ass-hole", "faggot", or any other word like that, but it isn't. It is the most powerful word that I personally know. There is no other that matches the terrible, true meaning of that word.
To compare:
When the word "gook" came around, I'm pretty sure it was during the Korean war. The American soldiers in Korea during that time (1970's maybe?) mistakenly heard the natives referring to themselves as the "Han-guk", and so began to call the people this. The term was used to generalize the population, and became offensive.
"g---" = four years or so during the war, began as a misunderstanding
"n-----" = 200 years of the struggle of black people
Makes sense yet?
I think there are two reasons that you see many black people calling each other the n word. The first is that the majority of us also don't understand how powerful the word is, but say it to each other because their parents and mentors did. All they know is to fight anyone that isn't black that says it.
The older generations used it against each other to keep themselves in line. There is a movie with morgan freeman in it that is set in the civil war. He was the highest ranking officer, the only officer, in a regiment of blacks. One character of his seemingly forgets his place, and tries to start a revolt against the white leaders. As much as morgan freeman's character wants to revolt, he knows that doing so will have terrible consequences. He then calls the soldier the n word so that he will remember where he is, what had happened, and what will happen. The soldier quickly steps back in line. This is the best example I can give on the whole "black people calling other black people the n word" issue. Like I said though, in today's times it's just because they don't know any better.
I hope that helps the o.p. and anyone else who wants to know, and sorry if the grammar is bad or if any of the facts are incorrect.
|
On May 02 2012 12:14 Nibbler89 wrote:Show nested quote +On May 02 2012 11:58 run.at.me wrote:
I'm from australia and we dont have many black people here.
I use the word nigger because its just another word in my offensive word dictionary. I throw in Arab, Jew, dumb Asian, fag, and anything else that comes to mind. They are all equal in my books.
I would never call a black person a nigger, unless he was my friend, and the same goes to the rest of them. My grandpa is Chinese, and I went to a school that was 70% Jewish kids. I couldn't be any less racist, but the words are good fun to use. Do you ever use any derogatory terms for white people from your offensive dictionary? I always thought it's weird how people often use derogatory terms for other races to insult other white people even if they are white themselves. Why not instead use derogatory terms for white people. Oh wait I forgot white people have no flaws so there is no way someone could feel insulted by being called something associated with being white, also as we have learned modern day white people are never racist so long they as don't admit to being one. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU28Pv26nNQ I miss open racism, makes it easier to tell who is actually racist, instead of everyone feeling entitled to say nigger faggot gook but then as long as you say " its just words im not actually racist" and people are actually expected to believe you or else because of the extremists on the opposite end of the spectrum you are considered to be trying to restrict their free speech and are labeling anyone who uses those words as some mega racist. -_-
Well, to be clear I don't use any of those words to genuinely insult anyone. Because never have I found someone's race a reason to insult them..
I have plenty of white slang, but i only use them when they are somewhat true, which is kind of unusual. Usually it's just jokes with friends tho, if they are acting like a 'bogan' or redneck Americans use.
|
On May 02 2012 13:11 hoot00 wrote:
Alright, I will answer your question op.
I'm sure you know what slavery is. In America during that time, the slaves were usually referred to as "N-----" by the white community. So when you call someone that word, you literally are saying that you believe the country should go back to the slave times. You also say that the other person should be a slave, and is inferior in every way possible, that their whole race is inferior, and their sole existence is to serve the whites.
In the middle of the 20th century, the black people in america began to gain some of the rights that the whites had, and achieve their dream of equality. As you can imagine, there were many people who did not like this, and reverted back to the N-word to show how they felt; that the blacks were made to be slaves, and they did not deserve those rights. That was about 60 years ago.
Now, only the people who lived during that time, and a small amount of others, know what that word really means. The younger generations don't realize what exactly comes along with the N-word, just that the word is terrible and should never be used. Because of this, it is used as a cuss word is today. The people you hear say that think it is on the same level as "ass-hole", "faggot", or any other word like that, but it isn't. It is the most powerful word that I personally know. There is no other that matches the terrible, true meaning of that word.
To compare:
When the word "gook" came around, I'm pretty sure it was during the Korean war. The American soldiers in Korea during that time (1970's maybe?) mistakenly heard the natives referring to themselves as the "Han-guk", and so began to call the people this. The term was used to generalize the population, and became offensive.
"g---" = four years or so during the war, began as a misunderstanding
"n-----" = 200 years of the struggle of black people
Makes sense yet?
I think there are two reasons that you see many black people calling each other the n word. The first is that the majority of us also don't understand how powerful the word is, but say it to each other because their parents and mentors did. All they know is to fight anyone that isn't black that says it.
This is basically correct. I live in the dirty south, and my grandmother (and parents sometimes) still uses the N-word, and really means it. Like really means it. She uses it to specifically single out black people and her belief of their inferiority. I don't blame her because of how she grew up. Anyway, the N-word is truly disgusting, and if know the history of it, or lived in the dirty south where people still use it and mean it, it will just occur to you that it is miles worse than most other racial slurs.
|
STOP. THIS. FUCKING. DISCUSSION. Holy shit, TL, really? We don't need 500,000 threads since 2010 about racism and thoughts on it. There's been plenty of things happening in the community (ie: orb incident, stuff with destiny), but who gives a fuck? We don't need all these fucking threads.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
