EPTWhy Valve is the best company out there. - Page 3
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Anon06
United States203 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 22 2012 02:21 Xxio wrote: Google is still awesome - for good programmers at least. Yeah, from pretty much all accounts, I've heard that Google is still a fantastic employer. Whether you like what they're doing as a company is another story. | ||
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Loanshark
China3094 Posts
On April 22 2012 08:51 Anon06 wrote: I'm with djzaps on this one, even though I like valve and their concern for gamers (customers) they haven't put out a quality game since HL2. left 4 dead was pretty good but they killed it by releasing the free expansion that was promised as a sequel really early on which split the the community in half and ruined the simplicity of the game (by adding melee weapons and new infected) that made left4dead competitive. I agree that L4D2 full price seemed like a money-grubbing attempt, but it was followed up by multiple free DLCs and also lots of custom maps and campaigns made by players themselves. And the campaigns in L4D2 were not in any way inferior to those in L4D, and possibly better in some cases (Midnight Riders? Gassing up the car? Hard Rain? The final bridge scene?). Perhaps you don't like the melee weapons and the new infected but that's purely subjective, I thought they were a great addition to the game. Not counting L4D(2) and the HL2 episodes, we still have Portal 1/2, Alien Swarm, and the upcoming Dota 2. If those don't count as quality games, I'm not sure what does. And honestly, I'd prefer them to take their time releasing quality games, rather than flooding the market with tons of crappy, half-assed sequels like the Call of Duty franchise. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 22 2012 07:44 WolfintheSheep wrote: So...you don't like their newer games, therefore Valve is terrible? No. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking that's what I said. On April 22 2012 07:49 konadora wrote: lol if you're really going to base games off graphics then you should never play any games that are older than a year -_- and btw, valve set up a private server for a community-organised competition's grand finals for dota 2 (The Defense) like 10 minutes after they were contacted for assistance. name me just one other company that will do that. I think I made it pretty clear that I value gameplay much more than graphics, and (like I said) my favorite games are games that look horrible by today's standards in general. However, recent Valve games have been pretty much been visually unimpressive lately, and have either sucked (L4D) or been too short for the money (Portal, Portal 2). | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 22 2012 09:21 Loanshark wrote: I agree that L4D2 full price seemed like a money-grubbing attempt, but it was followed up by multiple free DLCs and also lots of custom maps and campaigns made by players themselves. And the campaigns in L4D2 were not in any way inferior to those in L4D, and possibly better in some cases (Midnight Riders? Gassing up the car? Hard Rain? The final bridge scene?). Perhaps you don't like the melee weapons and the new infected but that's purely subjective, I thought they were a great addition to the game. Not counting L4D(2) and the HL2 episodes, we still have Portal 1/2, Alien Swarm, and the upcoming Dota 2. If those don't count as quality games, I'm not sure what does. And honestly, I'd prefer them to take their time releasing quality games, rather than flooding the market with tons of crappy, half-assed sequels like the Call of Duty franchise. L4D2 got a bunch of free DLCs, meanwhile L4D was almost dead and largely unsupported. People who bought that game full price got shagged by Valve's decision to yank even more money out of us suckers. HL2 episodes are nice but a company of that magnitude shouldn't take years to develop a short expansion on top of their house engine. Portal are quality* games built on top of a severely lackluster engine. In their own merit they're great games but yeah they don't last very long as I've mentioned before. Portal 2 may be a quality game but it should have been built on a new engine and it should have been longer. They had the means to make it better, but they don't feel like it. I think Valve's been riding Source's wave for too long, they should now invest in Source2 or whatever. | ||
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resfirestar
United States109 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On April 22 2012 09:21 Djzapz wrote: No. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking that's what I said. Really? Because that's all you've been doing, bitching about all the games post HL2. They don't meet your qualifications of quality productions, so they must be crap. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 22 2012 12:00 WolfintheSheep wrote: Really? Because that's all you've been doing, bitching about all the games post HL2. They don't meet your qualifications of quality productions, so they must be crap. You're so ridiculous. And this response/explanation will probably fly right above your head because you're unable to read, apparently. How are people supposed to voice an opinion when little kids like yourself just throw around hyperbolas, strawman arguments and slippery slopes all over the place. Did you read what I say or did you just get angry because you feel like it? Here's what I did: I pointed at some of the issues that I personally perceive with Valve in order to express my firm belief that Valve is not that great of a company (let alone "the best company out there"). The fact is, I don't personally care much about Valve - they're OK. But come on, it strikes me when people idolize huge corps like Apple. Those people aren't looking out for you, stop looking up to them. And yes, I consider many of Valve's games to be crap, which is not even the point of my posts so it baffles me that you'd comment on that. My opinion that Portal 2 is not a good value at launch price is just an opinion. Same deal with my opinion that launching L4D2 literally less than a year after L4D is not something a good business practice. Also there's my opinion that TF2 used to be a pretty good shooter and turned to crap. You're more than welcome to disagree, obviously many people do and I'm not any better than them. It's all subjective, isn't it? From my perspective, Valve is a great company in terms of making the dollars, or in its ability to cut corners in order to save money by reusing an outdated engine. Why do people idolize a company which has obviously been abusing the fact that they've found the sweetspot which allows to spend as little as possible while maintaining brand loyalty, and they achieve this by reusing old code and abusing new IP... Valve is like Apple, a bunch of businessmen looking to make their enterprise profitable. With enterprises that big, if you ever get a good product it's because they want you to buy the next product too. And that's admirable if you're into capitalism (not that there's anything wrong with that), but other than that, those men aren't particularly altruistic, and they don't deserve their fans. In fact, I think Valve fans are misguided. Be a fan of a franchise, be a fan of a particular game or the actual programmers behind the games. Don't be a fan of the huge corp like Valve which has disgustingly bad PR and customer support (in my experience anyway) and more importantly, a company which couldn't care less about you. It's sad to me that there are indy companies that'll jump through hoops to help you, and then people idolize big soulless companies that are frankly only good if you'll ignore their failings. In the end I'm just posting because it's strange to me that people think like they do. If you really do think that Valve is this great company because it scratches your back, I think you're not getting the full picture, and you're being naive. | ||
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Nspire
Canada43 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 23 2012 12:25 Nspire wrote: What are some games you think look amazing? Look that's not the point at all, how many times do I have to say it? I'm just saying that Valve has been cutting corners and their games look behind their time. I could give you a list of games that look better than Valve's and that wouldn't further my point that obviously Valve pays little attention to their game's aesthetics, and I think they do it to save money. That's not to say that only aesthetics matter, far from that - but they have the means to make games that look as good, or better than most of their competitor's games, yet they choose to use an old engine because they know people will buy anyway. My point is, they obviously don't try to make the best product they possibly can - they're making the cheapest product they can, that passes their modest quality standard which is just high enough that people will be satisfied and they'll buy again. This is classical business, and there's nothing really wrong with that... But I for one would think that if you're going to crown some company "the best company ever" from the consumer's perspective, it's certainly not Valve. | ||
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infinity2k9
United Kingdom2397 Posts
Also Steam's ridiculous pricing in some regions, what happened to games being cheaper than retail due to less costs like they said from the beginning? They just replaced the retailer and kept the same prices, if not MORE in some regions. Despite there being less overheads. Surprised they don't implement P2P features in Steam to penny pinch on bandwidth costs too, unless they have already. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On April 24 2012 00:36 infinity2k9 wrote: Some other things that were annoying relating to HL2; straight up lying about projected release dates, as shown by the beta.. as well as revealing it's 'unscripted' events to be 100% scripted. Minor things maybe but it is their flagship game. Also Steam's ridiculous pricing in some regions, what happened to games being cheaper than retail due to less costs like they said from the beginning? They just replaced the retailer and kept the same prices, if not MORE in some regions. Despite there being less overheads. Surprised they don't implement P2P features in Steam to penny pinch on bandwidth costs too, unless they have already. To be fair, some of the prices can be pretty low when they're on sale, especially during some of the yearly Steam sale seasons. I have heard that the regional pricing is really annoying, but I live in the US so it doesn't really affect me. | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
I think a lot of the reason people perceive things as they do, and the reason they support/idolize a company and a franchise has to do with how much they like their products, and that's totally subjective. You see Valve's business practices as lazy and abusive, others don't care about the business practices or the looks/engines of games and will simply enjoy the products they put out. Ultimately, everything you think about their business practices and how they should be perceived is going to be colored by your perception of their games. It's very hard to have an objective outlook on something like this. The reason companies like EA and now Activision/Blizzard are widely regarded as being so crappy is because they produced more questionable games and accompanied them with more questionable business practices. Unfortunately, this is all about perception. | ||
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konadora
Singapore66158 Posts
if you guys don't believe this, check out the stream now tobi wan kenobi (dota 2 commentator) is sharing his experience going to valve | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Also, even though I'm not a big Blizzard fan, I still like to see it as a company somewhat distinct from Activision to a certain extent. EA and Activision are garbage, and although Blizzard is now the property of Activision, it hasn't gone "dark side" yet. Blizzard hasn't ever released a "questionable" game, in my opinion. I mean, I don't like SC2 too much but it's still a premium title. Note: Actually some WoW expansions have been quite terrible. Either way, comparing companies is not very useful. It's really rare for big corps to have any integrity at all. I used to fly the Blizzard flag before they had been acquired by Activision. That's until I had to deal with their customer support and realized that they actually give the lowest amount of fuck humanly possible. Now I'm a fan of Starcraft and Diablo, and the faceless individuals who have worked to make those games possible. Valve and Blizzard's business is to fuck you, they're just more subtle about it than EA and Activision. Anyway, just an opinion. It doesn't mean I hate them. | ||
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Vod.kaholic
United States1052 Posts
On April 24 2012 03:21 Djzapz wrote: @Vod.kaholic, that's true, but I think people should refrain from idolizing a company for those reasons. Also, even though I'm not a big Blizzard fan, I still like to see it as a company somewhat distinct from Activision to a certain extent. EA and Activision are garbage, and although Blizzard is now the property of Activision, it hasn't gone "dark side" yet. Blizzard hasn't ever released a "questionable" game, in my opinion. I mean, I don't like SC2 too much but it's still a premium title. Note: Actually some WoW expansions have been quite terrible. Either way, comparing companies is not very useful. It's really rare for big corps to have any integrity at all. I used to fly the Blizzard flag before they had been acquired by Activision. That's until I had to deal with their customer support and realized that they actually give the lowest amount of fuck humanly possible. Now I'm a fan of Starcraft and Diablo, and the faceless individuals who have worked to make those games possible. Valve and Blizzard's business is to fuck you, they're just more subtle about it than EA and Activision. Anyway, just an opinion. It doesn't mean I hate them. However, looking through their employee handbook makes me respect that kind of workplace philosophy. If that actually translates to how they make games (which I suppose is debatable) they should be producing enjoyable games slowly, making the best use of their engine. That and how much I enjoy their games is why I still don't feel negatively about their company, even if you think their capitalistic interests get in the way of that. | ||
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On April 24 2012 06:01 Vod.kaholic wrote: However, looking through their employee handbook makes me respect that kind of workplace philosophy. If that actually translates to how they make games (which I suppose is debatable) they should be producing enjoyable games slowly, making the best use of their engine. That and how much I enjoy their games is why I still don't feel negatively about their company, even if you think their capitalistic interests get in the way of that. Well I think you're using the proper terms all the way. Respect, good games, "don't feel negatively". I respect Valve too, but I'd never qualify myself as a fan. | ||
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SeanBlader
United States1 Post
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