How does someone "get better" at English? How do we tell if someone is good at it or if someone isn't? What criteria are we going to use to make such a judgement on a person? Do we say someone is proficient in the English Language if they are capable of using bombastic words, or has perfect grasp of the rules of the language like punctuation and grammar? To me, it's a mixture of both. Excessive use of huge words may give off the impression that you're a pompous cunt. Also, we cannot really say that someone is terrible at English when their work does not adhere to the rules of English. I mean, look at Hemingway for example. Are you going to say he was bad at English? Obviously not.
How I determine if someone is good at English is based mainly on how they express themselves. I often find myself at a lost of words whenever I try to convey my thoughts and the end result is a basic sentence filled with superlatives. Not that I'am saying that superlatives are bad, it's just that it would be much better if I could explain myself even more clearly.
Trying to get better at English is also a mystery to me. If someone already has an understanding of the mechanics, what is there to do next? The clear answer to me is 'Vocabulary'. Building up an extensive word bank, learning all the hard words and whatnot. But surely this is not the only way I can improve my grasp of the language. I read books to learn expressions, but some things don't retain in my mind. Will starting a journal help rectify this problem?
Use English as much as you can, preferably speak it with native speakers, and enforce that with reading and listening. A journal might help with the writing conventions.
Pay attention to which speakers you wish to learn from: Listen to some university lectures etc on youtube, better than Australian chimney sweeps.
Don't learn word lists, it's boring and not very constructive.
I have never had any success with other languages, but I have lived with several exchange students and expressions or coloquialisms always trip them up. But I think that is more a cultural thing than a language thing. As an Australian I have expressions that sound odd to English speakers from other countries. Exposing yourself to different authors sounds like a great way to become better acquainted with the different ways you can express your thoughts in English. Increasing vocabulary gives you more tools to word with, but I think that is only part of the whole. But I do advocate increasing vocabulary. Word games come to mind, such as Scrabble. The wider yourvocabulary, the better a player you can be.
Mm. I would say one gets better at English depending on the way they speak it with other people. The more it flows in a natural way, the better they get at it.
On April 11 2012 21:26 nepeta wrote: Use English as much as you can, preferably speak it with native speakers, and enforce that with reading and listening. A journal might help with the writing conventions.
Pay attention to which speakers you wish to learn from: Listen to some university lectures etc on youtube, better than Australian chimney sweeps.
Don't learn word lists, it's boring and not very constructive.
Do you have any suggestions on speakers? Neil de Grase Tyson? Carl Sagan? TED Talks?
Also, what's an Australian Chimney Sweep?
On April 11 2012 21:30 Fugue wrote: I have never had any success with other languages, but I have lived with several exchange students and expressions or coloquialisms always trip them up. But I think that is more a cultural thing than a language thing. As an Australian I have expressions that sound odd to English speakers from other countries. Exposing yourself to different authors sounds like a great way to become better acquainted with the different ways you can express your thoughts in English. Increasing vocabulary gives you more tools to word with, but I think that is only part of the whole. But I do advocate increasing vocabulary. Word games come to mind, such as Scrabble. The wider yourvocabulary, the better a player you can be.
Do you mind giving some examples of the expressions that you've mentioned?
In a way learning a second language is a skill like playing Starcraft, because you have to keep doing it in order to maintain your ability. At a fundamental level your skill in English can be judged by how well you are able to express your ideas to an educated native speaker. Lack of both grammar and/or vocabulary can be the reasons you are not able to express yourself in any particular situation. Obviously on top of this is fluency, which is the ability to use this knowledge to speak to another person.
Once you get to a certain level in learning English you might feel like you are not being very challenged anymore because everyday situations don't present new words and idioms, so in this case you have to go and do something or read something that will give you new information. If you are interested in the news then I would recommend reading a good quality newspaper, because this is going to be full of different language depending on what the news is that particular day. You can even go to bbc.co.uk/news to get free news from around the world there.
I am currently watching QI on youtube. It's basically a quizshow with Stephen Fry and a group of guests answering impossible questions. It helps me get a grasp of the british ways of speaking english (damn you american TV series ) and I feel that british natives tend to have a richer set of vocabulary.
On April 11 2012 22:15 Skilledblob wrote: I am currently watching QI on youtube. It's basically a quizshow with Stephen Fry and a group of guests answering impossible questions. It helps me get a grasp of the british ways of speaking english (damn you american TV series ) and I feel that british natives tend to have a richer set of vocabulary.
Stephen Fry is really articulate. Wish I could speak like him :[
On April 11 2012 22:15 Skilledblob wrote: I am currently watching QI on youtube. It's basically a quizshow with Stephen Fry and a group of guests answering impossible questions. It helps me get a grasp of the british ways of speaking english (damn you american TV series ) and I feel that british natives tend to have a richer set of vocabulary.
English is tough to learn because there's no rhymes nor reason to it. It has very relaxed grammatical rules. My advice would be just to read as much as you can and use English in conversation as much as possible. You are correct that vocabulary is key to improvement. I've been speaking English my whole life and I'm still learning.
I am not a native speaker of English, my main language being Afrikaans; but I have had an affinity for this wonderful language since I could remember. It helps that my grandfather is English (although he does not speak very much), and therefore I picked up on the language at an early age. This is where I delve into my views of how gaming can be very stimulating for the mind, as I primarily learned English through the medium of playing games. By the time I arrived in grade 3 at school, and English became compulsory, I could read it already and had a major advantage above my peers, most of whom could not read English at the time (albeit, could probably speak it in a primitive fashion). Don't be mislead by this little story though, as all my classmates and the South African population in general (for those of you who likely don't know much about my beloved country) can speak decent English.
These days, with me being in my senior year now in high school, mastery of the English language has become sort of an obsession for me. I know that I may not be that proficient in the ways of the language, but I sure want to achieve that status one day. Although that seems like a far cry from where I am currently, I constantly try to improve my vocabulary and always inspect dictionaries right when I stumble upon a new and exciting word.
As for how you can improve your English skills, the only things that will really help is to avidly speak to native English speakers and have them expose you to a variety of idioms and expressions. In that way you will learn things that you cannot learn other than with scrupulous reading of excellent literature. Quite obviously, watching decent and enriching TV shows will also help a ton (The Big Bang Theory comes to mind when I think about this, as that show helped me be much more attentive to high level words).
Big bang theory is American, native land of the Australian chimney sweep I meant beware where you get your language input from. Would you rather speak like:
or like:
?
Seriously, BBC radio, decent comedies like Dad's army, It ain't half hot mum, documentaries on whatever, series like Brideshead revisited... films! Well glhf, gtg bbq byebye
Is there any particular reason you want to get better at English? I've studied several other languages, and English always struck me as a "meh" language. It is ok, but there are more attractive sounding languages out there that are much more regular.
Is it for business purposes? Do you have an interest in the language itself?
On April 12 2012 00:48 HardlyNever wrote: Is there any particular reason you want to get better at English? I've studied several other languages, and English always struck me as a "meh" language. It is ok, but there are more attractive sounding languages out there that are much more regular.
Is it for business purposes? Do you have an interest in the language itself?
It may be that he is merely in pursuit of attaining the best possible results with his proficiency in English, and that is reason enough for anyone to go at great lengths to achieve just that. I don't believe that he wants to do it for business purposes though, as from what I could gather from his "sig" he is only 15 years old. It could well be that he just has a great interest in the language.
On April 12 2012 00:58 sam!zdat wrote: It's mostly just about crossword puzzles.
edit: seriously, though, the only thing you can do is read a lot of books. Native speakers who don't read a lot are bad at English.
Most certainly the best advice. One of the best things that has helped me to grasp a better understanding of English, was by way of reading extensively. Don't pressure yourself in the process though and rather enjoy it along the way. I'm currently in quite a predicament because I put too much emphasis on learning new words when reading difficult material. It hampers my ability to enjoy it whilst learning.
First there is basic communication, then there is artfulness. Most people can grasp the former, few ever grasp the latter.
Those are the two ends of the scale for English competency, in my opinion. There are varying points between them, but if you want to simplify things that is what you get. You start off only being able to convey simple meaning (in any language), and as you become more aware of the meaning and power behind each word, the flow of sentences, the way matching sounds can add meaning and allusions can build that meaning even further, you begin to be capable of expressing a complex meaning which although not readily accessible to those without the competency to understand it, is none the less valuable to that particular demographic which is known as intellectual.
Spelling things right, making grammar do what you want it to do and having a decent vocabulary don't really have much to do with mastery of a language. Perhaps it's somewhere above basic communication if you don't have to say "Me want go to store," but essentially it's still the same as saying "I want to go to the store" and still falls under basic communication (although it might impress business associates more).
Vocabulary isn't everything, syntax, correct use of words along with their meanings (meaning their connotations), and finally having strong diction to match your vocabulary and whitty word use. Thats usually the signs of a very strong speaker, and i for one am not a strong speaker, I am just good enough to converse fluidly and whittily, not majestically or proficiently as an a native English speaker. The levels of getting better at a language are more succinct and much more subtle than things like math where there are HUGE, set boundaries between strengths and facets. Also sorry for the grammar in this post, it may seem hypocritical since I am not using the most perfect level of english to describe the most perfect level of english lol.
On April 11 2012 22:12 AegonC wrote: Obviously one can only be considered adroit at English if they are utterly proficient in the field of eloquence and extemporaneousness in English.
Do you mind giving some examples of the expressions that you've mentioned?
Sure.
Not an Australian one, but once a German guy and a Taiwanese girl I was living with decided to go out to a nightclub for some drinking and dancing. As they were leaving I said "Dance up a storm!" which utterly confused the both of them. Now, I don't know the etymology of the phrase. As far as I'm aware, this saying based on Native American rain dances. A rain dance is a dance intended to alter the weather; to bring rain. Presumably no ordinary dance could have such power. Also, presumably such a dance could be used to assist crops to grow. So if it were successful, it would be bringing good fortune.
Therefore, to say "Dance up a storm" is technically like saying "Dance enthusiastically and have a positive outcome." Or possibly a less clunky version: "Have a great time"
Because it relies on a shared understanding of Native American rain dances (And honestly, I could be completely mistaken about rain dances, a surprising amount of these expressions have little to no basis in fact) it is not unlike an internet meme. If you've never been exposed to that shared meaning, you don't get it.
I suppose an Aussie one might be "I gotta do the bolt", or just "I gotta bolt". This can actually be parsed correctly based on dictionary definitions, it's just an unlikely use of the word. When "bolt" is used as a verb, it can refer to a (usually wild) animal that runs away unexpectedly.
Therefore, "I have to bolt" roughly translates to "I have to leave unexpectedly", though it's used much more casually, not only in specific circumstances where leaving was unexpected. To become even more esoteric, saying "I have to do the bolt" is grammatically nonsensical. That comes from rhyming slang, where it used to be "I have to do the Harold Holt". Harold Holt was a Prime Minister of Australia who disappeared whilst swimming in the ocean. His body was never found. Ergo, he left unexpectedly.
This is what I mean by expressions being one of the hardest things. Having a wide vocabulary is one thing, but playing with the nuances of language is something every culture has done in their own way, and jokes like that are just not transferable. There are dozens of ways to say the same thing and generally you'll be taught the most direct and universal way, because that makes the most sense. I was tempted to suggest trying to experiment with multiple ways of saying the same thing as an exercise, but I actually failed linguistics in university so I don't want to pretend I have any idea what's best for you.
I think it's better to pick up vocabulary in context rather than study it in isolation. Keep reading classics with challenging vocabulary. Don't worry if you don't understand a word, try and pick up its meaning in the context of the sentence. After awhile you will "know" whether a word is right or wrong to use, even if you can't give it's precise definition.
Improving: read a lot, write a lot, listen a lot. Speak too, obviously.
What makes someone good at English? Assuming you are just talking about being "good" at speaking English, imo it is simply a matter of getting across your ideas/points clearly in idiomatic English (which means you do need to know rules of grammar, when it is okay it break/ignore them, what words to use in what social context, etc.) with minimal stuttering/pausing. Eloquence is an added bonus but unnecessary.
On April 12 2012 14:40 babylon wrote: Improving: read a lot, write a lot, listen a lot. Speak too, obviously.
What makes someone good at English? Assuming you are just talking about being "good" at speaking English, imo it is simply a matter of getting across your ideas/points clearly in idiomatic English (which means you do need to know rules of grammar, when it is okay it break/ignore them, what words to use in what social context, etc.) with minimal stuttering/pausing. Eloquence is an added bonus but unnecessary.
Totally agree! I for one have improved my vocabulary, spelling and writing in the last 3-4 months simply by reading a lot more.
What I really to work on now is my sentencing structure, basic grammar, and overall fluidity of speaking. If anyone has any suggestions on these it would be gladly appreciated!
EPT
) and I feel that british natives tend to have a richer set of vocabulary.
I meant beware where you get your language input from. Would you rather speak like:
