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You know, every community, be it game, sport, hobby or professional has it's bad apples and it's stereotypes. Such stereotypes aren't useful measures for looking at individuals. Much of it is hyperbole or assumptions, and isn't reflective of any truth.
You can try to weed back apples out of a community, but it isn't particularly effective, especially not in online communities where there is little consequence for bad behavior since you can always re-create a 'new' identity.
Known community figures are held to a higher standard, you can see the major backlash that occurs when someone in the public spotlight messes up (the orb incent is probably the most recent example). This is true of all communities though.
On March 30 2012 05:00 ComebackKid wrote:
Imagine a kid is sitting in his basement watching a popular Pro's stream and his mom walks in while he is watching. At that moment, the pro describes to a kid he is coaching that playing ZvT is like raping some chick... WHAT DO YOU THINK A MOM WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS!?
Such a person will compare whatever he is doing to something that isn't appropriate, whatever it happens to be. He just so happens to be a gamer in this case. People will latch on to any little thing they want to demonize, or have been trained to demonize.
Rather than try to weed out and expel every non-representative bad apple, I think a more effective solution is to help those that have those biases overcome such biases. It's a fact of life that we'll be judged by quick first-impressions no matter what we do, but working to help change the biases inherent in those around us by telling and showing that bad apples don't represent a community as a whole does far more than weeding out or trying to convince a few bad apples.
It isn't that gamers need to change, most of them are perfectly fine. The few bad apples you run into, they aren't specific to gaming. There are crooks, bigots, thieves, jerks, and assholes in all communities, in all walks of life, be it starcraft, knitting, republican, democrat, religions, atheist, sports, bankers, lawyers, janitors, brokers, consultants, sales people, programmers, broadcasters, bloggers, artists, or ANY other community. A few bad apples don't represent the gaming community.
The tone of your post overall makes it sound like you actually buy into the stereotype (and agree that it is accurate) far more than you should, and just personally I find it disconcerting you share the same stereotypical view of your fellow gamers that those around you hold.
Edit: that is to say, a view of the bad apples should never be the basis of assumption when judging an individual. If someone introduces themselves to you as a senator, representative, the president, or any other politician, do you automatically, in your mind, go 'oh he must be corrupt as $%^& and taking bribes' before you even know him? Do you always assume any lawyer you meet is an ambulance chaser or patent troll? Do you assume every salesman is trying to sell you snake oil?
In that same way, no matter what the gamer stereotypes are, people's reactions shouldn't be immediately negative. If they are, that's a problem with the person doing the perception, not any particular fault of the gamer, and the issue should be resolved with the person who's incorrectly jumping to conclusions.
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Has no one mentioned that a lot of people who act like this literally need to grow up? We, as gamers, get our image taken as a snapshot of the whole from people who don't really get 'us'. It seems like no one from the outside bothers to make a distinction between the 12 year old that goes apeshit and uses awful language, or the high school failure that sits in the basement all day, or the adult that uses bad language when he streams, OR the professional gamers out there. As it is now, it seems like most people will choose to focus on making fun / demeaning us nerds, and they will use whatever evidence they can. As people mentioned before, you certainly see/hear ample bad mannered things from pro-athletes and spectators alike.
Granted, there are definitely many people who are or should be mature but who aren't. However, I do feel that a large chunk of any bad image we may have is because of teenage punks mucking it up.
eSports (or gaming) isn't brand new, but the concept of it becoming mainstream is (at least to me). We will have to fight for our image and show people that we aren't just a bunch of no-life nerds playing in mom's basement eating cheetos. People don't have much to base their opinion of us on, except for their own, preexisting biases.
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On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened.
I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct.
So straight from my heart baby.
Fuck you Chef.
If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder.
Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now.
=D
User was warned for this post
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I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care.
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On March 30 2012 05:22 Luepert wrote:
I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care.
Dude, i totally respect that answer. In the end, a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes. It's okay to be ourselves and enjoy the things we love.
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The people who judge a small subset of our community need to grow up themselves.
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On March 30 2012 05:22 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened. I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct. So straight from my heart baby. Fuck you Chef. If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder. Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now. =D
Way to Hulk out over nothing.
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so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet?
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I was in the TL channel in SC2 for about 30 minutes. Could not bear the idiocy and supposed "trolling" they were doing in there, calling each other words like "faggot", "dipshit", and the like. Most of them are cynical and hateful, worse than what 4chan has to offer. There's no sensible thing people say or do in that channel. It happens less so on the threads because of mods, but I agree that the majority of TL are either 15 year olds with only the words "shit", "fuck", and "LOL" in their vocabulary or kids in their late teens or early 20s on an "intellectual" high horse.
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Preaching, choir, so on and so on. Ever heard of vocal minorities? That's the issue here. You probably want to post this on a site that those kinds of people regulate, and not TL. Most of us around here are not angsty teenagers that call anyone who has the nerve to beat them at a game a "faggot" and ask for them to go "hang themselves".
Also, I'd like to think we've mastered basic cleanliness by now, especially when visiting public areas.
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On March 30 2012 06:05 Drizzt3 wrote:
so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet?
GG bro. ^^
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On March 30 2012 05:22 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened. I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct. So straight from my heart baby. Fuck you Chef. If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder. Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now. =D
Someone went a little crazy right there. The mixed signals you're sending make it seem like you had a stroke or something, and confused happy with mad as all hell, and Chef with Harrad. What did Chef ever do to you anyways?
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The stereotypes are pretty outdated now that gaming has gone mainstream, ofc there are some people who fit the stereotype but based on my sampling of gamers that I play with they all come from very diverse backgrounds and have a different demeanor. Sounds like the real problem is you have a group of ignorant assholes for friends.
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The stereotype IS outdated, but 'mainstream' doesn't know that yet.
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Wow stereotype and generalize much? Jeez man.
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On March 30 2012 06:14 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:22 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened. I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct. So straight from my heart baby. Fuck you Chef. If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder. Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now. =D Someone went a little crazy right there. The mixed signals you're sending make it seem like you had a stroke or something, and confused happy with mad as all hell, and Chef with Harrad. What did Chef ever do to you anyways?
Chef is my best friend here on TL.
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Hi Comebackkid, remember me from those Node lans?
Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with some of the stuff your saying. Every single offline tournament I competed in, there are people there that smelled like they haven't showered in a week and that always bugged me (considering I'd be spending hours in close quarters with them). But that's only one thing out of the many you mentioned.
The biggest thing I'd be inclined to agree with, is how this relates to the overzealous "for e-sports" stance many "nerds" like to take. If foul-mouthed, dirty players are hitting up barcrafts (and fronting that image), or pushing that stereotype it would make it for people outside of e-sports to take competitive gaming less seriously. However, I don't feel that there is that many people that are perpetuating this stereotype still. Most of the people I've met through SC2 in person where considerate and very fun to be around (even if originally being a bit shy). The odd person I've met that does fulfil this idea of yours typically was looked down upon by others in the community, so it seems overall that gamers are not trying to associate themselves in that manner anymore.
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On March 30 2012 06:38 Bitters wrote:
Hi Comebackkid, remember me from those Node lans?
Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with some of the stuff your saying. Every single offline tournament I competed in, there are people there that smelled like they haven't showered in a week and that always bugged me (considering I'd be spending hours in close quarters with them). But that's only one thing out of the many you mentioned.
The biggest thing I'd be inclined to agree with, is how this relates to the overzealous "for e-sports" stance many "nerds" like to take. If foul-mouthed, dirty players are hitting up barcrafts (and fronting that image), or pushing that stereotype it would make it for people outside of e-sports to take competitive gaming less seriously. However, I don't feel that there is that many people that are perpetuating this stereotype still. Most of the people I've met through SC2 in person where considerate and very fun to be around (even if originally being a bit shy). The odd person I've met that does fulfil this idea of yours typically was looked down upon by others in the community, so it seems overall that gamers are not trying to associate themselves in that manner anymore.
Dude, its good to see you on here. Are you still playing SC2 in Calgary? We should hook up in the Channel "uofc" if you're ever on b.net.
Yeah, I wanted to write a controversial blog that got people talking about this stuff. My biggest beef is with people who do things in public - like streaming - and act like children. Ya know, the pros who stream and bm lots or use really foul language. There are at times the odd dude who shows up at a lan and acts like a dick but no one generally cares. I guess my main issue is with the "image" of SC2 as a hobby.
I should have just aimed the blog at people streaming and feeling like they are alone when, in fact, they aren't alone, they are entertaining 1000's of people and acting like idiots.
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On March 30 2012 05:34 ComebackKid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:22 Luepert wrote:
I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care. Dude, i totally respect that answer. In the end, a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes. It's okay to be ourselves and enjoy the things we love.
Of course you respect that answer, he is admitting to fit the stereotype you pushed on all of us.
Instead of saying
a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes.
You should have said, "A lot of these responses have helped me see that I need to work on my judgmental attitude."
You went from bashing and stereotyping a community, to apparently coming to a realization that the same group of people need to stop being so judgmental?
Come on man, 1/5.
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On March 30 2012 06:49 KhAmun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:34 ComebackKid wrote:On March 30 2012 05:22 Luepert wrote:
I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care. Dude, i totally respect that answer. In the end, a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes. It's okay to be ourselves and enjoy the things we love. Of course you respect that answer, he is admitting to fit the stereotype you pushed on all of us. Instead of saying Show nested quote +
a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes.
You should have said, "A lot of these responses have helped me see that I need to work on my judgmental attitude." You went from bashing and stereotyping a community, to apparently coming to a realization that the same group of people need to stop being so judgmental? Come on man, 1/5.
LOL GG!!!!!!!
I love blogging on TL!!!
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EPT
