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Hey TL,
This is my 1st blog on the site. However, I've written a bunch of material about SC2 strategy. I really appreciate this site and everything that it does for the community!
A little about me:
I'm 26 years old, I play P, married, work for an IT company doing sales and marketing. I live in Canada and I try to get involved in as many SC2 community events as possible.
My main issue:
Some gamers are immature, perverts who need to climb out of their shell, learn some manners and start to act like normal people who actually contribute to society instead of acting like degenerates.
And now that I've got your attention here are...
My thoughts:
Games like CS, WOW, Halo, COD and now SC2 are bridging the gap between people who play video games and those who don't.
Before those games existed, HxC (hardcore) gamers kept to themselves in their mothers basements and were basically untouched by society.
However, now, HxC gamers have an outlet to play their game and find meaning and purpose doing it. As we all know, the pro scene is legit and the organization of competitive play at home is legit - eg, ladder ranks and tourneys. Furthermore, the internet is bridging the gap between pros and novice players. I can feel like i'm part of the pro scene when I play LiquidRet on the ladder. These things all make playing a game more legitimate. I'm no longer "wasting my time" because my time and energy is resulting in something similar to time and energy put into playing basketball or bird watching or knitting.
For example, my wife doesn't think its completely lame for me to play SC2 because she thinks it's cool i can climb the ladder and play online tourneys. She also thinks its awesome that i can go to local lans and be involved in a local SC2 community. For us, SC2 isn't a game, its more like a sport or a hobby like playing Hockey or Baseball in a beerleague.
So where am I going with all of this?
My wife, for example, still discriminates towards gamers. One of the main reasons why she doesn't like that I game is because I associate myself with greasy, nerdy, perverted people who get fat and are socially awkward.
My wife isn't the only one who thinks this way. A lot of my other "cool" or "trendy" friends (i'm huge into folk music so the majority of my friends aren't "gamers") also think of gamers the same way.
Even some of my work colleagues feel the same way about gamers and when i tell them i enjoy playing SC2 A LOT they are shocked that someone like me would enjoy such a thing, and when i tell them i like going to the local barcraft they almost roll over into their graves they are so shocked.
So I sit here and I think about all of these peoples oppinions and i am bothered. Not personally. But i am bothered that perhaps there are some gamers out there who still represent these stereotypes...
Perhaps there are gamers out there who stream and use words like Ni***r or Fa***t or who talk about rape and all sorts of inappropriate things that you would never talk about in any "normal" social setting...
Perhaps these people aren't helping our situation at all... Maybe they are leaches on society who are unmotivated and who are riding a free train for a couple years on the idea that "they are pro and trying to do something new and exciting as a career"...
At the end of the day, the more "legit" people in the scene will rise to the surface, and as SC2 gets more mainstream, they will show the world that gamers aren't greasy or perverted or unmotivated.
I still think that, we as gamers, need to grow up a little bit.
When we climb out of our holes to attend a Barcraft, we should take a shower and comb our hair and brush our teeth.
We should leave our ladder rage at home, and FOR GOD'S SAKE we should never say sexist things around our waitress or swear out loud at the screen when IdrA loses again.
If we wana be punks then we should get involved in the local scene where degenerates like to hang out. But as far as I can tell, SC2 is going mainstream, so we better jump on that bandwagon and clean ourselves up...
These are some of my thoughts on the matter. Sure, there is a time and a place for vulgar language and joking but i think it should be kept to closed quarters similar to a bunch of dudes joking around the kitchen table while playing poker.
In the end, people are still guna hold to the stereotypes if we uphold them. If you're all okay with being stereotyped in this way, then i guess this blog is pointless.
In the end, i'm guna keep playing SC2 despite the stereotypes because they don't really hurt my feelings and i genuinely love this game. I also know a bunch of sweet dudes who play, and we all represent a sweet image for the rest of the community.
Feel free to post whatever you'd like regarding my blog. I'm interested in everyone's ideas.
-CBK
EDIT - AND A QUICK NOTE:
I realize this blog is very negative towards the scene and I judge basically anyone who games or calls themselves a gamer.
I've been trolled a lot because of this and I believe I deserve the trolling.
I mostly wanted to write this blog and just share my thoughts. I know the title is strong and demands a course of action from the reader. Perhaps I should have made this blog more of a thought process than a call to action.
Some people have posted some pretty harsh things, and in return I posted harsh things back. I am a hypocrite and a judgmental jerk, but hey, aren't we all from time to time?
I should have put more thought into some of my "old fashioned" arguments, and if i could go back and rewrite the blog, i would change my approach. I am a little disgusted with some of the language that is used over b.net and streaming and i think our community could grow in maturity in that sense but even if it doesn't it will still be a welcoming place for people to express themselves freely and that's cool too.
In the end, these are my thoughts and I'm grateful to TL for letting me share freely and blog, even tho i am a dick about it. My hat goes off to this site and their willingness for everyone to just open up and share - even if we are just flaming and BMing each other. It's all helping us understand each other and grow as a community.
  
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Unnecessarily condescending and patronizing, also too much whining for my taste. 2/5
By the end I wouldnt have been surprised if you had called for some white knight crusade to try and rid the community of all that is vile and wretched lol
Take it easy.
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Blazinghand
United States25552 Posts
Although I may agree with most or all of your opinions, Sc2 (and gamers in general) are a diverse community. It's not my job, or yours, to tell them who they should be or what they can do. I'd certainly prefer if people wouldn't use bad language on the ladder or perpetuate a certain image regarding gamers in their private lives, but that's their personal choice, not mine.
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Those gamers who are already socialized will respond that they already know what you're saying.
Those gamers who are not will respond that they don't care what you and your trendy friends think.
Who is the intended audience here?
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On March 30 2012 03:17 Harrad wrote:
Unnecessarily condescending and patronizing, also too much whining for my taste. 2/5
You're also being unnecessarily condescending and patronizing. He brings up legitimate issues which have been brought up often enough before. Why don't you talk about what he says instead of posting a one liner? EDIT: I see you've added a bit more. Not to be taken out of context.
To the OP: The issue of maturity in gaming has been brought up several times before, and I agree with you that many of us need to step up their public appearances, if only for the sake of the commercial side of eSports (what people say or do in private is none of my concern).
BUT, the image of the sweaty, lazy gamer is a stereotype that is already being eradicated, IF slowly among people who do not assosciate themselves with the gamer subculture. Gamers are a diverse group of people, and - as you said - games like SCII help to bridge the gap between the casual and the hardcore.
It's going to take time. The eSports scene is still adjusting to the large amount of growth it has seen in the past two years.
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Don't swear at the screen when your player/team loses? That... is not a gamer thing, that's an every competition ever thing.
Though I will agree, I 100% judge people who don't shower / wear deodorant at tournaments.
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Fuck you nigger faggot. Go play the sims.
User was temp banned for this post.
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Yeah, you are kind of preaching to the choir here. FOR THE MOST PART, the people who are on TL are fairly intelligent and reasonable (I said "for the most part," don't jump on me, mods, telling how wrong I am  ). Those who are truly pricks get weeded out quickly.
And once more, the gamers who truly rage like that rarely will ever change their ways, especially because one guy on TL told them to.
However, the gamer demographic is expanding, so you really get all kinds of people. I always think it is funny to imagine someone over 24 raging at me over ladder, so I think it is mainly adolescent gamers who are so provocative. Those who attends BarCrafts, I would assume, are better than you describe.
EDIT"
+ Show Spoiler +On March 30 2012 03:33 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
Fuck you nigger faggot. Go play the sims. Like this guy. A weed.
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Most of us agree with your sentiments about wanting to see a respectful and motivated community grow and flourish so that we can be taken seriously, but there will always be the few bad apples... in the same way that there are the jackasses of every sport.
Also, I found it funny that you're preaching to us to grow up, when you wrote "hardcore" as "HxC". What the fuck is that?
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On March 30 2012 03:33 CyDe wrote:Yeah, you are kind of preaching to the choir here. FOR THE MOST PART, the people who are on TL are fairly intelligent and reasonable (I said "for the most part," don't jump on me, mods, telling how wrong I am ). Those who are truly pricks get weeded out quickly. And once more, the gamers who truly rage like that rarely will ever change their ways, especially because one guy on TL told them to. However, the gamer demographic is expanding, so you really get all kinds of people. I always think it is funny to imagine someone over 24 raging at me over ladder, so I think it is mainly adolescent gamers who are so provocative. Those who attends BarCrafts, I would assume, are better than you describe. EDIT" + Show Spoiler +On March 30 2012 03:33 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
Fuck you nigger faggot. Go play the sims. Like this guy. A weed.
It's funny how you act like you're a part of the community. Noone on TL gives a damn about what you say on here.
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Good thing no one ever screams and curses at the bar tv when their dumb fuck qb throws a pick
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On March 30 2012 03:17 Harrad wrote:
Unnecessarily condescending and patronizing, also too much whining for my taste. 2/5
No, i really think this is neccessary right now. This is how most people in the south think, that all gamers are like this and its truly disconcerting. Its like an entire community of some really great guys is defined by the truly loserish people who don't want to accept some of societies norms. Its like where i live and skateboarding, i personally skateboard (though apparently I'm a huge hipster according to my friends) i don't conform to the all black, punk skateboarding lifestyle and neither do most boarders here. I play SC2 when i can so I'm in gold league, when i could play more i was in plat and rising to the top near diamond, but thats not very good in comparison to where i could be if i tried hard. My point is that should i be judged as a skateboarder/lonboarder when i don't conform to that stereotype? Should gamers be stereotyped so badly (stereotyping happens but we can change that stereotype if we cleaned up our act)? The answer to both is no. I belong to a group, yeah I'm a nerd, but I'm a social nerd with a life and a cleaned up image. Not many of these greasy people do exist, but some do and they tend to create the stereotype because they are the most striking. The sum of what i am saying is that we need to clean up our image and put up a symbol of our changed look, we are now the Day[9]'s the Tastetosis' and BitterdaM's that represent us and they have a very clean image. That is what we should look like.
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Although some of your points are mildly legitimate as far as the topics of maturity and present ability in e-sports the underlying elitism through out the whole thing ruins your end goal, I honestly don't even know where to start with it and it's ultimately disgusting.
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You strike a few good points but most of it is just telling people to start caring about what others think of them
Which, to an extent, one should do, but definitly not to the extent that you're implying here.
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On March 30 2012 03:47 docvoc wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 03:17 Harrad wrote:
Unnecessarily condescending and patronizing, also too much whining for my taste. 2/5 No, i really think this is neccessary right now. This is how most people in the south think, that all gamers are like this and its truly disconcerting. Its like an entire community of some really great guys is defined by the truly loserish people who don't want to accept some of societies norms. Its like where i live and skateboarding, i personally skateboard (though apparently I'm a huge hipster according to my friends) i don't conform to the all black, punk skateboarding lifestyle and neither do most boarders here. I play SC2 when i can so I'm in gold league, when i could play more i was in plat and rising to the top near diamond, but thats not very good in comparison to where i could be if i tried hard. My point is that should i be judged as a skateboarder/lonboarder when i don't conform to that stereotype? Should gamers be stereotyped so badly (stereotyping happens but we can change that stereotype if we cleaned up our act)? The answer to both is no. I belong to a group, yeah I'm a nerd, but I'm a social nerd with a life and a cleaned up image. Not many of these greasy people do exist, but some do and they tend to create the stereotype because they are the most striking. The sum of what i am saying is that we need to clean up our image and put up a symbol of our changed look, we are now the Day[9]'s the Tastetosis' and BitterdaM's that represent us and they have a very clean image. That is what we should look like.
Yeah I see your point but how are we supposed to go about that? You do not cure a disease by treating its symptoms. That's my issue with this blog, it does a good job pointing out the baddies but does not actually provide any kind of viable solution, that's why I called it whining.
You see I don't doubt that CBK had good intentions writing this, but you need to understand that those kind of posts will almost always do more bad than good, if anything at all. He's basically saying: "I have no clue what to do about you or how to fix you but I hate you, so I'll post on TL to let people know so at least I can have some degree of satisfaction." How does that help anybody?
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I'm pretty sure that not all gamers don't already "take a shower and comb our hair and brush our teeth" when they go out. Unless you were raised by wolves or something I'm pretty sure you already know basic manners and basic hygiene. Like others have said before The gamers who are out to socialize have already cleaned up before they go out to a barcraft and The gamers that are living in their mothers basements probably don't care what you think. There is "cleaning up your act" to a certain extent but the bottom line is that people will act how they want to act. Perhaps a better solution would to be just to remove those providing a negative image in public via the establishment itself. As in, the bar kicking out the person raging and yelling obscene things. This is not limited to gamers at all. I've been to many bars where non-gamers are being rude and end up being escorted out of the bar.
Also, really bothers me how you use the phrases "legit" and "associate myself with" because you are implying that a majority of gamers are "greasy, perverted and unmotivated" and illegitimate. That they are not good enough people to be part of the e-sports movement. This seems to be a personal bias and not necessarily your friends because you use these terms multiple times, but you go on to say that you don't care and that you're "guna keep playing sc2" and you contrast that with "you and some other people provide a "sweet image" for the rest of the community. This seems pretty unnecessarily condescending to me.
This blog bothers me a lot. It comes off to me as you asking for people to change their culture just so you can earn the approval of your friends and wife. If it bothers you so much that they think you associate with these people maybe the best thing is to just not talk about it. There are many many more people promoting e-sports in a positive way and I have never seen anyone yell vulgar slurs at a barcraft or at any sc2 event. I've only been to two barcrafts and an MLG so I don't know if that really counts for anything.
Have you ever thought that just maybe your friends are the issue? Not the gamers? Now I'm not saying that they are or anything, but you should give it some thought. People can act how they want and outsiders to a culture should be open minded about how a certain group of people act and and interact. Try introducing your friends to starcraft2 and bringing them to a barcraft to change their opinions and stereotypes.
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1. Show her a picture of Nada, Bisu, Marineking...etc. Explain who they are.
2. ???
3. Profit!
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1/5. totally disagree with your blog..
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when i go to sports bars people shout swear words all the time when our team losses
ive also been to soccar games with people yelling some pretty bad stuff
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It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it.
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a lot of the more hardcore football fans in my country are violent alcoholics with tattoos in their necks. it doesnt influence the image of the sport at all.
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So because a bunch of other people do it too means you're not wasting your time? Pretty sad that you need validation from other people to enjoy what you enjoy. People should be nice to each other because that just makes the experience more pleasant for everyone, unfortunately that will never fully happen with anonymity.
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On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it.
I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please?
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On March 30 2012 04:24 B.I.G. wrote:
a lot of the more hardcore football fans in my country are violent alcoholics with tattoos in their necks. it doesnt influence the image of the sport at all.
football or football?
here in switzerland, these hooligans (or ultras, how they like to call themselves) are a fairly big issue.
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It depends a lot on the game to what kind of a community they have. We here at SC2 actually have it good since BW had the best gaming community ever... If we look at games like HoN we got it good. All games, and all sports anyway have individuals who are immature and need to grow up, this is a fact of life. Some do, some don't, but we all go through that cycle at some point. Some later than others.
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Some gamers are immature, perverts who need to climb out of their shell, learn some manners and start to act like normal people who actually contribute to society instead of acting like degenerates.
In my experience, these types of people are already in the minority (at least for starcraft players, I don't affiliate much with other games). Have you personally observed these stereotypes at a barcraft or something?
I think the people that need to grow up are those with outdated preconceptions about gamers.
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Blizzard to invent Bnet 2.1 login tool that checks your personal hygiene.
I've seen physically very clean people who swear like all hell broke loose. I've also seen very innocent people (by no means socially or sexually perverted) who chat like the urban dictionary version of C3PO.
And I'm pretty sure there are really disgusting people out there in their real life who only use manner language on the ladder.
Generally, I agree, the community should and is already improving along these lines, but many people are much younger and in all kinds of social situations to be judged. There are orphans, there are people from very poor families, they can only go so far beyond their original background. Largely depends on the situation. Meanwhile, stereotypes are stereotypes, but there are all kinds of people in every community, not just the gaming community. If you are fixed on any kind of stereotype, you are granted to always find examples for what you are looking for.
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I agree on most things and I mean cmon guys where is the harm in improving ourselves? But as for yelling at the screen... that happens in every sporting event live or in a bar MMA matches, Football, ever been to a soccer game? I don't think a guy complaining about Idra losing is really something you need to concern yourself with.
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Most gamers are in fact immature, since video games are more accessible towards the younger generation. The 20-30 age range of gamers will eventually be the seniors who won't look at video games condescendingly, and there will be a wider range of gamers by this time. As video games become more accessible (or casual), there will be more acceptance. For now we just have to deal with it. Internet etiquette doesn't really exist and with time, maybe it will (or not).
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On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please?
No need to apologize for anything.
The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I.
I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what?
From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post.
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Being a lazy dirty person has nothing to do with being a gamer though....granted, some gamers are very healthy in shape people, some are very out of shape and very unhealthy
;p
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On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything.
He's not apologizing. In English it's common to say "I'm sorry? [say again? did I mishear you?]" in spoken dialogue when you've heard something ridiculous. It's a bit like a sarcastic benefit of the doubt that a person would say anything so absurd, even when it is absolutely clear (as in the case of text) that they have.
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On March 30 2012 04:52 Chef wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. He's not apologizing. In English it's common to say "I'm sorry? [say again? did I mishear you?]" in spoken dialogue when you've heard something ridiculous. It's a bit like a sarcastic benefit of the doubt that a person would say anything so absurd, even when it is absolutely clear (as in the case of text) that they have.
Chef I would just like to take a moment and bow my head to apologize for my bad English. Now I know the difference between "I'm sorry?" and "I'm sorry." thanks to your heroic intervention.
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It will be interesting to see what kind of gamers show up at the Cosmopolitan in Las Vegas for IPL4. I'm betting that the people who go to an event like this are generally not the type of no-social-skill gamers that the OP is talking about.
Still, gaming can be a pretty solitary activity so it inevitably attracts more introverted types who like to hang out at home. But barcrafts seem to be changing this at least to some extent.
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Hey all,
I'm really enjoying all of the responses from all of you.
Some of my thoughts on the responses:
1) Yeah, i'm preaching to the choir, but, hey, i'm blogging and i'm mostly doing this to just share my thoughts and get it out - so don't sweat it. Take it for what it is. Agree, disagree - its all good.
2) To those of you that think this blog isn't needed:
Imagine a kid is sitting in his basement watching a popular Pro's stream and his mom walks in while he is watching. At that moment, the pro describes to a kid he is coaching that playing ZvT is like raping some chick... WHAT DO YOU THINK A MOM WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS!? Furthermore, what if that kid actually thought raping chicks was cool because this pro he looks up to mentioned it... WHAT IF...
Also, a recent caster just got fired from a gig for using bad language. This subject is spinning around TL like crazy right now, and i just wanted to blog about some of these behaviors and stereotypes.
3) I wanted this blog to be controversial so that people would actually read it. Perhaps my issue is more personal than it is a community issue, like the one TLer pointed out (smart guy...) but hey, it's still a blog in the end and it's helping me get my thoughts and concerns out there, and i think it can only help the community by revisiting this issue and talking about it.
In the end, I just want gamers to be accepted socially. And i want gaming to be accepted as a legit hobby that isn't frowned upon. I still feel like these are hurdles that our community has yet to over come. And I know we will conquer them in the end.
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On March 30 2012 04:54 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:52 Chef wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. He's not apologizing. In English it's common to say "I'm sorry? [say again? did I mishear you?]" in spoken dialogue when you've heard something ridiculous. It's a bit like a sarcastic benefit of the doubt that a person would say anything so absurd, even when it is absolutely clear (as in the case of text) that they have. Chef I would just like to take a moment and bow my head to apologize for my bad English. Now I know the difference between "I'm sorry?" and "I'm sorry." thanks to your heroic intervention.
You're welcome.
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On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post.
Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me.
Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all.
Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened.
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Stop bitching like a child about this shit, all people seem to do on TL these days is whine about words and attitudes, at 29 I thought you would have gotten over this shit.
Also CS isnt a noobfriendly bridge game its the most elite competitive FPS to date.
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On March 30 2012 05:14 Swwww wrote:
Stop bitching like a child about this shit, all people seem to do on TL these days is whine about words and attitudes, at 29 I thought you would have gotten over this shit.
Also CS isnt a noobfriendly bridge game its the most elite competitive FPS to date.
Thanks bro, GG
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You know, every community, be it game, sport, hobby or professional has it's bad apples and it's stereotypes. Such stereotypes aren't useful measures for looking at individuals. Much of it is hyperbole or assumptions, and isn't reflective of any truth.
You can try to weed back apples out of a community, but it isn't particularly effective, especially not in online communities where there is little consequence for bad behavior since you can always re-create a 'new' identity.
Known community figures are held to a higher standard, you can see the major backlash that occurs when someone in the public spotlight messes up (the orb incent is probably the most recent example). This is true of all communities though.
On March 30 2012 05:00 ComebackKid wrote:
Imagine a kid is sitting in his basement watching a popular Pro's stream and his mom walks in while he is watching. At that moment, the pro describes to a kid he is coaching that playing ZvT is like raping some chick... WHAT DO YOU THINK A MOM WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS!?
Such a person will compare whatever he is doing to something that isn't appropriate, whatever it happens to be. He just so happens to be a gamer in this case. People will latch on to any little thing they want to demonize, or have been trained to demonize.
Rather than try to weed out and expel every non-representative bad apple, I think a more effective solution is to help those that have those biases overcome such biases. It's a fact of life that we'll be judged by quick first-impressions no matter what we do, but working to help change the biases inherent in those around us by telling and showing that bad apples don't represent a community as a whole does far more than weeding out or trying to convince a few bad apples.
It isn't that gamers need to change, most of them are perfectly fine. The few bad apples you run into, they aren't specific to gaming. There are crooks, bigots, thieves, jerks, and assholes in all communities, in all walks of life, be it starcraft, knitting, republican, democrat, religions, atheist, sports, bankers, lawyers, janitors, brokers, consultants, sales people, programmers, broadcasters, bloggers, artists, or ANY other community. A few bad apples don't represent the gaming community.
The tone of your post overall makes it sound like you actually buy into the stereotype (and agree that it is accurate) far more than you should, and just personally I find it disconcerting you share the same stereotypical view of your fellow gamers that those around you hold.
Edit: that is to say, a view of the bad apples should never be the basis of assumption when judging an individual. If someone introduces themselves to you as a senator, representative, the president, or any other politician, do you automatically, in your mind, go 'oh he must be corrupt as $%^& and taking bribes' before you even know him? Do you always assume any lawyer you meet is an ambulance chaser or patent troll? Do you assume every salesman is trying to sell you snake oil?
In that same way, no matter what the gamer stereotypes are, people's reactions shouldn't be immediately negative. If they are, that's a problem with the person doing the perception, not any particular fault of the gamer, and the issue should be resolved with the person who's incorrectly jumping to conclusions.
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Has no one mentioned that a lot of people who act like this literally need to grow up? We, as gamers, get our image taken as a snapshot of the whole from people who don't really get 'us'. It seems like no one from the outside bothers to make a distinction between the 12 year old that goes apeshit and uses awful language, or the high school failure that sits in the basement all day, or the adult that uses bad language when he streams, OR the professional gamers out there. As it is now, it seems like most people will choose to focus on making fun / demeaning us nerds, and they will use whatever evidence they can. As people mentioned before, you certainly see/hear ample bad mannered things from pro-athletes and spectators alike.
Granted, there are definitely many people who are or should be mature but who aren't. However, I do feel that a large chunk of any bad image we may have is because of teenage punks mucking it up.
eSports (or gaming) isn't brand new, but the concept of it becoming mainstream is (at least to me). We will have to fight for our image and show people that we aren't just a bunch of no-life nerds playing in mom's basement eating cheetos. People don't have much to base their opinion of us on, except for their own, preexisting biases.
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On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened.
I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct.
So straight from my heart baby.
Fuck you Chef.
If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder.
Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now.
=D
User was warned for this post
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I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care.
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On March 30 2012 05:22 Luepert wrote:
I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care.
Dude, i totally respect that answer. In the end, a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes. It's okay to be ourselves and enjoy the things we love.
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The people who judge a small subset of our community need to grow up themselves.
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On March 30 2012 05:22 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened. I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct. So straight from my heart baby. Fuck you Chef. If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder. Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now. =D
Way to Hulk out over nothing.
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so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet?
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I was in the TL channel in SC2 for about 30 minutes. Could not bear the idiocy and supposed "trolling" they were doing in there, calling each other words like "faggot", "dipshit", and the like. Most of them are cynical and hateful, worse than what 4chan has to offer. There's no sensible thing people say or do in that channel. It happens less so on the threads because of mods, but I agree that the majority of TL are either 15 year olds with only the words "shit", "fuck", and "LOL" in their vocabulary or kids in their late teens or early 20s on an "intellectual" high horse.
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Preaching, choir, so on and so on. Ever heard of vocal minorities? That's the issue here. You probably want to post this on a site that those kinds of people regulate, and not TL. Most of us around here are not angsty teenagers that call anyone who has the nerve to beat them at a game a "faggot" and ask for them to go "hang themselves".
Also, I'd like to think we've mastered basic cleanliness by now, especially when visiting public areas.
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On March 30 2012 06:05 Drizzt3 wrote:
so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet?
GG bro. ^^
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On March 30 2012 05:22 Snuggles wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened. I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct. So straight from my heart baby. Fuck you Chef. If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder. Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now. =D
Someone went a little crazy right there. The mixed signals you're sending make it seem like you had a stroke or something, and confused happy with mad as all hell, and Chef with Harrad. What did Chef ever do to you anyways?
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The stereotypes are pretty outdated now that gaming has gone mainstream, ofc there are some people who fit the stereotype but based on my sampling of gamers that I play with they all come from very diverse backgrounds and have a different demeanor. Sounds like the real problem is you have a group of ignorant assholes for friends.
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The stereotype IS outdated, but 'mainstream' doesn't know that yet.
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Wow stereotype and generalize much? Jeez man.
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On March 30 2012 06:14 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:22 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 05:01 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:45 Snuggles wrote:On March 30 2012 04:27 Harrad wrote:On March 30 2012 04:20 Snuggles wrote:
It's funny how everyone's attacking this guy. I too want people to grow up, I don't give a shit if that's the way you want to live using slurs and berating your fellow gamer, it's just not good for you overall as a person to act that way. I'm sorry but to be quite frank if you defend this type of behavior then there's a very good chance you engage in it as well.
Kind of tired meeting players on the ladder that BM me, throw death threats, and promptly ignore me right after, That's a step back in terms of how immature players are, if people aren't even willing to own up to the shit they say.
I wouldn't want to express my opinions but there's just so many times that this has happened to me, that I'm sick of it. I'm sorry? I've just gone over all the replies and no one (excluding the troll that got temp banned) attacked the guy himself but rather his points and how he phrased them. All legitimate criticism IMO. And no one defended that kind of behavior either, could you quote the replies supposedly doing that please? No need to apologize for anything. The criticisms may be legitimate, but they're as pointless as you have pointed out this blog to be (legitimate and pointless? the word for it is futile I believe). There's no point in bringing up this issue because there's simply just no solution. But people are still going to voice out their opinions on this. I think this is where the divide is between you and I. I believe that it's good to whine about immature players, it'll do more to discourage it rather than just sweeping it under the carpet. You seem to dislike it, since you've classified it as an incessant whine. Others view the OP as an arrogant preacher? Um..what? From my shit experience from blogging here, it seems like whenever you want to voice out your opinion as a normal TL member, you're looked down as a smug pompous fella. I feel that MOST, from the bottom of their hearts, just blog for the sake of expressing their opinion, and not to look down on others. But alas, my post will look smug and pompous too. I developed a technique to deal with this, and that is to not post. Well more power to you but I believe you're blowing this a bit out of proportion. If I truly looked down on the OP I wouldn't have even posted in the first place, but instead I gave him my honest opinion on his opinion on a public forum. Sounds like a fair deal to me. Yes I did dislike it for the reasons I pointed out. What is it I should have done according to you, sugercoat my opinion to please people such as you (no offense). Then I'd rather have no opinion at all. Also, I beg to differ: I do not know the OP. All I have to work with is his post he himself has asked people to give their thoughts on and that's exactly what I did. I'd prefer you don't accuse me or others here of judging and attacking people personally, when that's clearly not what happened. I think I'm starting to catch on to the culture that public forums are now. And it's really me at fault. I PMed some people in the past to try to figure out why I encountered conflict so much in the forums. First and foremost is the way I post, and my faulty attitude to other posts. People have told me that the best thing to do is be direct. So straight from my heart baby. Fuck you Chef. If I'm going to accuse you guys of shit, I'm going to do it, just like how I have read through your opinions. Don't think you have to sugarcoat your thoughts to my taste, I'm not a fucking tyrant. It's simply- here are your thoughts, here are my thoughts, here's why I don't agree with your thoughts. Does it sound like I don't want you to post that way? Sorry. Do whatever the fuck you want, because I like what you're doing more than the guy that BMs me and ignores me on the ladder. Here's a fucking smiley face so you bitches can see how I feel right now. =D Someone went a little crazy right there. The mixed signals you're sending make it seem like you had a stroke or something, and confused happy with mad as all hell, and Chef with Harrad. What did Chef ever do to you anyways?
Chef is my best friend here on TL.
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Hi Comebackkid, remember me from those Node lans?
Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with some of the stuff your saying. Every single offline tournament I competed in, there are people there that smelled like they haven't showered in a week and that always bugged me (considering I'd be spending hours in close quarters with them). But that's only one thing out of the many you mentioned.
The biggest thing I'd be inclined to agree with, is how this relates to the overzealous "for e-sports" stance many "nerds" like to take. If foul-mouthed, dirty players are hitting up barcrafts (and fronting that image), or pushing that stereotype it would make it for people outside of e-sports to take competitive gaming less seriously. However, I don't feel that there is that many people that are perpetuating this stereotype still. Most of the people I've met through SC2 in person where considerate and very fun to be around (even if originally being a bit shy). The odd person I've met that does fulfil this idea of yours typically was looked down upon by others in the community, so it seems overall that gamers are not trying to associate themselves in that manner anymore.
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On March 30 2012 06:38 Bitters wrote:
Hi Comebackkid, remember me from those Node lans?
Anyway, I'm inclined to agree with some of the stuff your saying. Every single offline tournament I competed in, there are people there that smelled like they haven't showered in a week and that always bugged me (considering I'd be spending hours in close quarters with them). But that's only one thing out of the many you mentioned.
The biggest thing I'd be inclined to agree with, is how this relates to the overzealous "for e-sports" stance many "nerds" like to take. If foul-mouthed, dirty players are hitting up barcrafts (and fronting that image), or pushing that stereotype it would make it for people outside of e-sports to take competitive gaming less seriously. However, I don't feel that there is that many people that are perpetuating this stereotype still. Most of the people I've met through SC2 in person where considerate and very fun to be around (even if originally being a bit shy). The odd person I've met that does fulfil this idea of yours typically was looked down upon by others in the community, so it seems overall that gamers are not trying to associate themselves in that manner anymore.
Dude, its good to see you on here. Are you still playing SC2 in Calgary? We should hook up in the Channel "uofc" if you're ever on b.net.
Yeah, I wanted to write a controversial blog that got people talking about this stuff. My biggest beef is with people who do things in public - like streaming - and act like children. Ya know, the pros who stream and bm lots or use really foul language. There are at times the odd dude who shows up at a lan and acts like a dick but no one generally cares. I guess my main issue is with the "image" of SC2 as a hobby.
I should have just aimed the blog at people streaming and feeling like they are alone when, in fact, they aren't alone, they are entertaining 1000's of people and acting like idiots.
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On March 30 2012 05:34 ComebackKid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:22 Luepert wrote:
I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care. Dude, i totally respect that answer. In the end, a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes. It's okay to be ourselves and enjoy the things we love.
Of course you respect that answer, he is admitting to fit the stereotype you pushed on all of us.
Instead of saying
a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes.
You should have said, "A lot of these responses have helped me see that I need to work on my judgmental attitude."
You went from bashing and stereotyping a community, to apparently coming to a realization that the same group of people need to stop being so judgmental?
Come on man, 1/5.
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On March 30 2012 06:49 KhAmun wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 05:34 ComebackKid wrote:On March 30 2012 05:22 Luepert wrote:
I'm a gamer who is "greasy, nerdy, and socially awkward", these contribute to me being a gamer. I don't really like lots of interaction with other people and people don't really like to interact with me. I hate it when people say "gamers are sexy" or "gamers aren't socially awkward" because actually a lot of gamers don't fall into those category. I feel like people should just accept or reject people for who they are, I'm not going to try to change myself so that I don't fit a stereotype. It's who I am and if you don't like that then you don't like me and I frankly don't care. Dude, i totally respect that answer. In the end, a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes. It's okay to be ourselves and enjoy the things we love. Of course you respect that answer, he is admitting to fit the stereotype you pushed on all of us. Instead of saying Show nested quote +
a lot of these responses have helped me see that people need to work on their own judgmental attitudes.
You should have said, "A lot of these responses have helped me see that I need to work on my judgmental attitude." You went from bashing and stereotyping a community, to apparently coming to a realization that the same group of people need to stop being so judgmental? Come on man, 1/5.
LOL GG!!!!!!!
I love blogging on TL!!!
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Good day Sir.. I say Good day.
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Again, I am thankful for all of your advice and critiques of my ideas.
It seems as though TL is helping to produce mature gamers who truly care about the community and our overall well being.
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United States22883 Posts
I wonder if your cool friends who are into folk music really care about how outsiders perceive them, and why should we.
People should cut out the childish behavior when it's rude and disrespectful, especially to people you care about, but fuck if I'm going to change behavior or stop being nerdy because of what your wife or friends think. Fuck her and fuck them too. And I'm sure they'd agree with the sentiment.
I don't rage or use slurs very often, but i don't care about going mainstream and i certainly don't care about being awkward. Didn't you ever notice the coolest kids in school aren't the ones who are openly concerned about it? If someone is being rude, call them out on it but don't do it because of the way it makes your wife view your hobby. She's being a judgmental prick as well.
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So basically this blog is about how everyone you converse with is an ignorant ass-hat and how all gamers should all change to prove a point to them?
What?
"Guys, my trendy friends think that everybody who watches football is an english skin-head, so if you could please advise your local skinheads to grow hair and stop race hating that would be awesome. That would save them from having to educate themselves and stop forming shitty preconceived notions."
It can't be helped that your 'friends' choose to pick the lowest point of a community and judge the rest based on that. I am quite aware that a player in the NFL ran dogfights. I am also quite aware that white people started the KKK. But I am not so ignorant as to judge the whole by these pieces. The problem here isn't the gaming community, it's your uneducated, closed minded, blissfully ignorant friends.
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I'll just post what i posted before.
Hopefully this helps my case.
Hey all,
I'm really enjoying all of the responses from all of you.
Some of my thoughts on the responses:
1) Yeah, i'm preaching to the choir, but, hey, i'm blogging and i'm mostly doing this to just share my thoughts and get it out - so don't sweat it. Take it for what it is. Agree, disagree - its all good.
2) To those of you that think this blog isn't needed:
Imagine a kid is sitting in his basement watching a popular Pro's stream and his mom walks in while he is watching. At that moment, the pro describes to a kid he is coaching that playing ZvT is like raping some chick... WHAT DO YOU THINK A MOM WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS!? Furthermore, what if that kid actually thought raping chicks was cool because this pro he looks up to mentioned it... WHAT IF...
Also, a recent caster just got fired from a gig for using bad language. This subject is spinning around TL like crazy right now, and i just wanted to blog about some of these behaviors and stereotypes.
3) I wanted this blog to be controversial so that people would actually read it. Perhaps my issue is more personal than it is a community issue, like the one TLer pointed out (smart guy...) but hey, it's still a blog in the end and it's helping me get my thoughts and concerns out there, and i think it can only help the community by revisiting this issue and talking about it.
In the end, I just want gamers to be accepted socially. And i want gaming to be accepted as a legit hobby that isn't frowned upon. I still feel like these are hurdles that our community has yet to over come. And I know we will conquer them in the end.
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On March 30 2012 07:34 ComebackKid wrote:
WHAT DO YOU THINK A MOM WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS!?
I'm pretty sure you can play 'construct a situation that a conservative and unaware mother could take out of context and feel odd about' with just about anything.
'Oh honey, you're going to the field to dress in tights, tackle burly men, and grab balls? I think we need to talk!'
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On March 30 2012 06:51 ComebackKid wrote:
LOL GG!!!!!!!
I love blogging on TL!!!
wow really? be more of a douche?
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On March 30 2012 07:34 ComebackKid wrote:
Also, a recent caster just got fired from a gig for using bad language. This subject is spinning around TL like crazy right now, and i just wanted to blog about some of these behaviors and stereotypes.
Orb didn't get fired for"using bad language." He got fired because a bunch of narrow-minded judgmental pricks like you who cant see past the image they see on a screen emailed EG's sponsors and forced EG to let him go.
User was warned for this post
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On March 30 2012 07:48 Drizzt3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 07:34 ComebackKid wrote:
Also, a recent caster just got fired from a gig for using bad language. This subject is spinning around TL like crazy right now, and i just wanted to blog about some of these behaviors and stereotypes.
Orb didn't get fired for"using bad language." He got fired because a bunch of narrow-minded judgmental pricks like you who cant see past the image they see on a screen emailed EG's sponsors and forced EG to let him go.
Did you shower today Drizzt? Did you comb your hair?
I may be judgmental and a duche, but so are you and youre justifying my post.
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Steve bonnell, aka destiny, would like a word with you. He was just in catz stream over the mic talking about touching boobs 50x over and asking what catz wanted to talk to him for. how old is steve now?
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On March 30 2012 07:48 Drizzt3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 07:34 ComebackKid wrote:
Also, a recent caster just got fired from a gig for using bad language. This subject is spinning around TL like crazy right now, and i just wanted to blog about some of these behaviors and stereotypes.
Orb didn't get fired for"using bad language." He got fired because a bunch of narrow-minded judgmental pricks like you who cant see past the image they see on a screen emailed EG's sponsors and forced EG to let him go.
Did you shower today Drizzt? Did you comb your hair?
Thanks for justifying my post.
User was warned for this post
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Your solution for gamers having a negative stereotype is an appeal to all be perfect?
I think you should expect friends to be a little more critical in their thinking, if you took them to a BarCraft I'd doubt that they'd see a bunch of lazy smelly social rejects that only play games and leech of society. Sure do your best to show the positive sides of our gaming culture, but don't be too insecure to take a stand for it either.
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
I don't understand this... The majority of the people I know in the scene are awesome, friendly, extremely sociable people, who just have a passion for gaming and it's competitive scene.
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+ Show Spoiler +On March 30 2012 03:38 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 03:33 CyDe wrote:Yeah, you are kind of preaching to the choir here. FOR THE MOST PART, the people who are on TL are fairly intelligent and reasonable (I said "for the most part," don't jump on me, mods, telling how wrong I am ). Those who are truly pricks get weeded out quickly. And once more, the gamers who truly rage like that rarely will ever change their ways, especially because one guy on TL told them to. However, the gamer demographic is expanding, so you really get all kinds of people. I always think it is funny to imagine someone over 24 raging at me over ladder, so I think it is mainly adolescent gamers who are so provocative. Those who attends BarCrafts, I would assume, are better than you describe. EDIT" + Show Spoiler +On March 30 2012 03:33 TubbyIsAwesome wrote:
Fuck you nigger faggot. Go play the sims. Like this guy. A weed. It's funny how you act like you're a part of the community. Noone on TL gives a damn about what you say on here. You're a cute one.
@OP
Anyway, back on topic. You will notice that many people from other sports are not particularly polite or anything. Not that I follow it, but have you seen the riots that occur after major games in countries? Hell, when I lived in West Africa we had to stay inside of our houses after soccer game because of the riots that would occur; REGARDLESS of whether they won or lost. If anything, the worst of the gamer community cannot really be considered that bad. At least their anger is pretty channeled, only subjecting one or three people to some anger. A riot can affect dozens of people, and have longer term effects. You don't see gamers going out on the street calling people, "Nigger faggot." The people you do describe as being the real "crud" of the gamer community usually are people who wouldn't do any of that stuff in real life.
I think that the respect that needs to be gained for eSports and games in general is not one reflective on the community, but on the activity itself. People just don't take games seriously, and why should they? For the first 20 years or so of their existence, they were pretty mindless. The stereotype has been pretty harshly ingrained.
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On March 30 2012 08:04 ComebackKid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 07:48 Drizzt3 wrote:On March 30 2012 07:34 ComebackKid wrote:
Also, a recent caster just got fired from a gig for using bad language. This subject is spinning around TL like crazy right now, and i just wanted to blog about some of these behaviors and stereotypes.
Orb didn't get fired for"using bad language." He got fired because a bunch of narrow-minded judgmental pricks like you who cant see past the image they see on a screen emailed EG's sponsors and forced EG to let him go. Did you shower today Drizzt? Did you comb your hair? Thanks for justifying my post. User was warned for this post
Not helping yourself here man.
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On March 30 2012 09:01 CaucasianAsian wrote:
I don't understand this... The majority of the people I know in the scene are awesome, friendly, extremely sociable people, who just have a passion for gaming and it's competitive scene.
more or less. Most people I know are gamers, this blog sounds like an elaborately constructed troll of stereotypical design.
On March 30 2012 09:14 SKTerran.117 wrote:
this reminds me of last weekend, mlg sunday
I was visiting a friend in richmond (I'm from VA) and decided to check out the barcraft they had going on.
As I drove by the place I saw two people standing outside smoking, one of them was wearing a zerg shirt.
I kept driving, it was that bad lol. Maybe I am an ass for being that judgemental, but they honestly did not look like people I would want to be associated with.
I'm not ashamed of my hobby, I wear a sc2 terran jacket (weather pending) on almost a daily basis, but I have standards :p
and then a new contender appears, brandishing an anti-zerg sign.
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Well, it's like using stereotypes for anything else. There are a few gamers that have these issues or are simply way too arrogant for my liking. I simply do not associate with these members at barcrafts and ignore them as I hate posers. Though unhygienic is a different deal, I know a guy here from calgary quite new to the scene and thats the first thing he mentioned after his first barcraft that the lack of hygiene was disturbing in the KOTH area. (luckily, he still loves them and keeps on going for the great aspects of barcrafts).
For example, I could easily call TL a pretentious forum for douchebags which is unfair as theres a wide community of people who do not act at all like this notion.
I'm also from calgary and I feel like CBK's points do not come out all that well in writing, awesome guy but according to how I know him in RL he could definitely play out his point far better in a conversation. I feel like it's fine to bring up these points but the execution wasn't perfect.
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On March 30 2012 03:58 FlamingForce wrote:
You strike a few good points but most of it is just telling people to start caring about what others think of them
Which, to an extent, one should do, but definitly not to the extent that you're implying here.
You do realise you only do diss service to your self when you present poorly. Why do you get dressed up for job interviews. why do you dress up for a date. Why do you put on something nice when you go out to see friends. Not because at the end of the day it matters how they feel about you that dose not make you who you are but you only hurt your self looking like a slob. I feel the extent was half as accusing as it could have been i would love to point the finger at a handful of SC2 people in this community.
I Agree with CBK's point. I never fit the stereo types i actual grew up with CBK. We played soccer together skate boarded along side of gaming but most people never knew about the gaming were were jocks and skaters. I actual have had tons of thoughts on this matter. Back when i was younger i played Half-life Team fortress classic and the community was a joke. Mainly full of degenerates that would talk about raping you and vulgar matters. It is a toxic attitude and starts to wear on you. you start to feel that that normal and act the same way towards others. Its amazing how sometimes the internet feels like something you can hide behind. Be a jerk and no one will call you on it. Ive been guilty of it and its not right. Now that SC2 is going more mainstream. I feel we need to present are selves as such. Spend the effort if your going to a gaming event to get cleaned up and ready to go out like you would to any major event. Yes last weekend i spent almost all weekend watching MLG and talking with people about it. I have had fun watching this community grow and i love to see that some people are willing to make a stand.
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Please take note of the EDIT i just made to the blog...
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Korea (South)11583 Posts
I dare you to go to an event, go to a barcraft, or a LAN. I think you'll be surprised at how polite, and friendly the community can be.
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You know, I've never seen any of these behavioiurs you're describing in any barcraft or at any ESPORTS event - blizzcons, MLG and so on. It sounds more like your regular country music festival than anything else, really. Sure, it's well known that gamers are vile online, but in reality, they're usually slightly reserved and poilite, or outrageously outgoing and charismatic. At least, that's my experience.
The "problem" you're portraying is the stereotype gamers are viewed with, which in no way is related to how gamers act in real life. The basement dwelling, fat-monster living in his mom's basement stereotype might have been true for a minority of gamers during the 80s and 90s, but it's really nonexsisting currently. Again, from my personal experience.
More than gamers changing their real-life behaviour, I think non-gamers needs to re-evaluate their prejudgements relating to gamers, or at least allow themselves to experience gamer culture rather than blindly judging it without knowing anything about it.
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On March 30 2012 03:13 ComebackKid wrote:
My wife, for example, still discriminates towards gamers. One of the main reasons why she doesn't like that I game is because I associate myself with greasy, nerdy, perverted people who get fat and are socially awkward.
My wife isn't the only one who thinks this way. A lot of my other "cool" or "trendy" friends (i'm huge into folk music so the majority of my friends aren't "gamers") also think of gamers the same way.
Even some of my work colleagues feel the same way about gamers and when i tell them i enjoy playing SC2 A LOT they are shocked that someone like me would enjoy such a thing, and when i tell them i like going to the local barcraft they almost roll over into their graves they are so shocked.
So I sit here and I think about all of these peoples oppinions and i am bothered. Not personally. But i am bothered that perhaps there are some gamers out there who still represent these stereotypes...
Oh you're bothered. I think the one who needs to grow up here is you, your wife and your friends. Since you even highlight that you're not bothered personally, this + Show Spoiler + perfectly sums up the whole reasoning behind your blog post.
Btw. I'm bothered by people like you <3
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On March 31 2012 05:36 plated.rawr wrote:
The "problem" you're portraying is the stereotype gamers are viewed with, which in no way is related to how gamers act in real life. The basement dwelling, fat-monster living in his mom's basement stereotype might have been true for a minority of gamers during the 80s and 90s, but it's really nonexsisting currently. Again, from my personal experience.
You've obviously never been to a Magic: the Gathering Grand Prix recently.
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Sounds like you are married to, hang around with, and work with prejudiced people. They have probably only met a very small number of gamers or heard stories then take that limited exposure and apply it to millions of other people. You're a gamer yet you're not a fat, greasy, racist, homophobe with zero social skills. There are all kinds of people associated with any activity. The most charming guy I know is the biggest nerd ever and the most offensive guy I know is a huge football fan.
Btw, I'm appalled that you hang around with folk music fans. It's common knowledge that they're all hippies who do drugs all day. Get a grip on your life man! (Not serious, just trying to point out how absurd this all is.)
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So, let me get this straight:
Problem: You think the gaming community is rude, anti-social and degenerate.
Quandary: You are a nice person, and don't want to be lumped in with the rude, anti-social and degenerate gamers.
Solution: Tell everyone to change their behavior so it won't reflect as poorly on yourself.
You can't change society, and you can't change the gaming community. The person you can change is yourself, though.
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Too much pompous, douchey self-righteousness in your post. This is so arrogant and smug it reads like something straight out of the cesspool of r/atheism. The only thing I'd agree with you is that some things need to change with the community
On March 30 2012 06:12 ComebackKid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:05 Drizzt3 wrote:
so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet? GG bro. ^^
Actually, shit like this needs more changing than what you described in your post. This passive-aggressive, 'umadbro' type of behavior is one of the most off putting things about the community.
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On March 31 2012 06:14 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 05:36 plated.rawr wrote:
The "problem" you're portraying is the stereotype gamers are viewed with, which in no way is related to how gamers act in real life. The basement dwelling, fat-monster living in his mom's basement stereotype might have been true for a minority of gamers during the 80s and 90s, but it's really nonexsisting currently. Again, from my personal experience.
You've obviously never been to a Magic: the Gathering Grand Prix recently.
Nope, only local Magic events such as drafts. Again, the same type of people appear here as the ones I described above - either shy and polite, or very friendly and very outgoing.
Of course, this could just be a reflection of the general country population. If you tend to meet the stereotype of gamers in your events, maybe that's just because how people in general are in your area.
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On March 30 2012 04:31 blubbdavid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 04:24 B.I.G. wrote:
a lot of the more hardcore football fans in my country are violent alcoholics with tattoos in their necks. it doesnt influence the image of the sport at all. football or football? here in switzerland, these hooligans (or ultras, how they like to call themselves) are a fairly big issue.
football ofcourse  hooligans are a problem here as well, I'm just saying it doesnt influence the sport itself (imo).
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Grow a spine and tell someone like it is when they do shit you don't like.
If you hear someone "say sexist things around their waitress", go call them out on it. Loudly. If you see someone who looks too dirty to be at an event and it really bothers you, go tell them that. If you see someone being an asshole on stream and it pisses you off, get on their twitter and call them out. I doubt I would be as bothered as you by these situations, but I'm not certain on that it really depends on how bad the comments were and if the dirty people are also really smelly.
Now that I think about it (I try to think before posting), you are kind of calling people out here..
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Looking back on my life in sports, bad manner is seen in every aspect of it. Of course it is going to happen in video games and the ability to see it, accept it, then not join in, is what will make you the better person. Other media forms and the outside world will have to ignore it too because they have to also understand it happens in all levels of sports.
My life experience is hockey so i'll stick to that but looking back at minor leagues (you could relate that to plat, gold, diamond ladder), everyone on the ice is yelling at each other saying stupid shit like fags, assholes, fucker, I fucked your mom... etc. I would think it also happened in football, baseball, soccer, and basketball to just name a few. Hell, even look at leagues like NHL, NFL, NBA when the media gets a candid mic moment of players saying racial, sexiest, homophobic slurs at each other, in social interactions where a competitive aspect is happening, these things tend to happen (whether we agree with them or not). I don't understand why gamers should have to uphold their sense of dignity just so the outside world will accept us.
I dunno, just my two cents.
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Gamers are gamers, some are as you described greasy immature perverts, some are very smart, some are handsome, some are rich and some are poor. This is because gamers are people and people are very different. Not everybody can be perfect, and same goes with gamers. There will always be immature greasy perverts among gamers and nothing can prevent that. Basically your blog is pointless. Also this is point of view from a 26 years adult man, you need to realize that most gamers are under age 20 and they do not have as much experience and overlook as you do.
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Perhaps you put it a tad too bluntly for this community, but in large I agree with your post. As the #1 gamer in the crowds I hang out with, I take all sorts of jokes and insults about the stuff you mentioned here (hygiene, fetishes, apm, etc.). They don't mean it in the literal sense when they say it (I do shower everyday, thank you, and I'm probably the most physically fit of all my friends), but instead they're just poking fun at the general image of a hardcore gamer in today's world.
I see this as a larger problem when all the gamers here and outside are hyped up about "eSports". Money alone does not automatically legitimize an activity as a sport - it needs a community. I'd like to believe that TL is one of the best moderated and mature gaming communities available. I know that there has been a lot of disagreements and angry reactions to this thread, but maybe more of these threads will prompt a few people to shape up, so to speak.
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On April 03 2012 23:06 OpticalShot wrote:
Perhaps you put it a tad too bluntly for this community, but in large I agree with your post. As the #1 gamer in the crowds I hang out with, I take all sorts of jokes and insults about the stuff you mentioned here (hygiene, fetishes, apm, etc.). They don't mean it in the literal sense when they say it (I do shower everyday, thank you, and I'm probably the most physically fit of all my friends), but instead they're just poking fun at the general image of a hardcore gamer in today's world.
I see this as a larger problem when all the gamers here and outside are hyped up about "eSports". Money alone does not automatically legitimize an activity as a sport - it needs a community. I'd like to believe that TL is one of the best moderated and mature gaming communities available. I know that there has been a lot of disagreements and angry reactions to this thread, but maybe more of these threads will prompt a few people to shape up, so to speak.
There is no problem. There is no "legitimizing an activity as a sport" and even if there is, it's unimportant and it certainly has nothing to do with the community engaged in the activity. Please stop making excuses to cover up for your own inability to cope with people being different. Some of you guys are so zealotic about the so-called esports that your posts slowly start to sound like some sort of dictator speeches. You're creeping me out here and I'm afraid people might begin to look down on me for browsing these forums 
Which gets me to what I think you're really saying here: "Dear asocial brethren, please socialize yourselves so that I don't have to feel ashamed because of you."
Admit it and deal with the fact that the logical response of most if not all of the people you're refering to will be: "No." or worse.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9934 Posts
i don't really care who gamers are in person. social awkwardness, greasiness, these things can still coexist with a good human being that i enjoy the company of. i'm more often disappointed by how people act online. there's so much anger and malice everywhere! the way people act when given anonymity makes me much more careful when sharing this scene with my friends.
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I go to LAN events all the time, and I wouldn't be embarrassed to introduce myself with any one of those guys. I don't know what community you're a part of.
Sometimes the online community can be pretty immature. Stream chats in particular. That's something I would personally like to see cleaned up, but I think as far as eradicating that bad reputation we have, we're moving as quickly as would be possible for the situation we're in.
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You know the thing about your friends? They'll die :D
I don't think the same attitudes will be shared by the coming generation. There isn't really a need to compromise a culture to achieve what will happen anyway, and no, by that I don't mean that stopping the excessive use of sexually laden profanity is a bad thing, I mean that an overt community effort to condemn that kind of natural behavior will have negative effects.
Imagine a kid is sitting in his basement watching a popular Pro's stream and his mom walks in while he is watching. At that moment, the pro describes to a kid he is coaching that playing ZvT is like raping some chick... WHAT DO YOU THINK A MOM WOULD THINK ABOUT THIS!? Furthermore, what if that kid actually thought raping chicks was cool because this pro he looks up to mentioned it... WHAT IF...
I don't know what she might think, but what she should be thinking is that we live in a violent, narcissitic culture that revels in violence and depradation of entertainment. Don't kid yourself for a second that the reason why such language isn't used in the sports world is because people who watch sports are intrinsically more cultured. Rather, their enterprise is simply more structured so that such behavior is censored and doesn't make it past the woodwork. Censorship isn't good, its basically a form of denying harsh realities people don't want to be exposed to.
Plus, another example, such language does exist in pop-music, and anyone who thinks listening to Tupac means you condone gangrape is a tremendous retard.
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well maybe i don't give two flying fucks about your and your friends opinion? I was social enough during school time and every minute spent with "normal" people just made me wanna stick a knife in their face (figuratively, of course). You know, some people just don't enjoy being around others all the time and having stupid obligations to meet all your "friends" every week.
I'm pretty antisocial because I chose to be so. Please don't tell me that - just because it is your mainstream view - i should not be how i am. My best friends (and by the time probably the only ones) are what you call stereotype gamers, but to me they are still 100x better than "normal people". I talk about nerdy stuff because it's what interests me and don't care what other people (probably talking about how drunk they were last weekend - now that's meaningful) think about it. I dress up however it floats my boat because I couldn't care less about arbitrary social dressing code and aesthetic guidelines propagated through commercials. Maybe you should stop worrying about what your "trendy friends" think about you? Please tell your "trendy friends" a sincere "fuck you nigger faggot!", cause that's how I think about them
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^^^^ Your post is great until you added your last line. Actually, without the last line it has a pretty damn good ending point.
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On May 01 2012 03:36 KingDime wrote:
^^^^ Your post is great until you added your last line. Actually, without the last line it has a pretty damn good ending point.
He was asking for it
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sort of ironic how its time for the gamers to grow up and you have "kid" in your name
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I knew this was an SC2 blog only because the majority of BW players are in their 20's both literally and figuratively.
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On May 01 2012 07:14 randomKo_Orean wrote:Show nested quote +On May 01 2012 07:03 Game wrote:
I knew this was an SC2 blog only because the majority of BW players are in their 20's both literally and figuratively. Fuck man, I'm in my mid 20's - I joined TL when I was 16 and other SC websites when I was 14. What's the world coming to?
I've been playing BW since 2005... it's hard to imagine I've done anything for 7 years that will never effect my life positively
Edit: turning 24 next week lol
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On March 31 2012 09:44 Bobo_XIII wrote:Too much pompous, douchey self-righteousness in your post. This is so arrogant and smug it reads like something straight out of the cesspool of r/atheism. The only thing I'd agree with you is that some things need to change with the community Show nested quote +On March 30 2012 06:12 ComebackKid wrote:On March 30 2012 06:05 Drizzt3 wrote:
so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet? GG bro. ^^ Actually, shit like this needs more changing than what you described in your post. This passive-aggressive, 'umadbro' type of behavior is one of the most off putting things about the community.
agree 100%, passive aggressive stupid replies are the most immature response you can give.
Otherwise not too offended by this blog I tend to agree with some points Comebackid makes.
I just think he should have worded it a lot more along the lines of....
"Gamer culture is so opposite of the mainstream that it almost revels in its uncaring attitude. Whilst Gamer culture is fantstic in that it embraces people from all walks of life and is so non-judgemental we as Gamers shouldn't stop caring about what the rest of society thinks of us. There are those of us who think it's ok to juts roll out of bed in our own filth and go to a barcraft and then use excessively vulgar language when our favourite player dies to a cheese. These people are in the minority but I do wish that these people who seem to just not give a shit and revel in the fact that as a Gamer they don't need to adhere to societal norms.
I think this minority of gamers need to change their attitude. They don't need to develop metrosexual grooming habits or stop swearing all-together. Just a little bit of effort and discretion is all I ask for"
Think this hits the nail on the head a bit better imo.
Whaddya think comebackkid?
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Read it all and 5/5. Especially with your edit I agree 95%
Gamers need to at least try to "integrate" with normal society. Perhaps even appear to be a functioning member of said society. People with wives/kids can't still post goatse on a forum...
Great blog!
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On May 01 2012 10:46 PiGStarcraft wrote:Show nested quote +On March 31 2012 09:44 Bobo_XIII wrote:Too much pompous, douchey self-righteousness in your post. This is so arrogant and smug it reads like something straight out of the cesspool of r/atheism. The only thing I'd agree with you is that some things need to change with the community On March 30 2012 06:12 ComebackKid wrote:On March 30 2012 06:05 Drizzt3 wrote:
so you massively stereotype the community, hate on gamers in general in every possible way, insult us profusely without any moral justification whatsoever, and then you have the guts to declare that you are one of us, and try to tell us what to do? your moral compass is so fucked up im surprised you can find your way around the parking lot of your boring shitty fucking IT job in the first place. if you dont like people, DONT TALK TO THEM. the inconsiderate opinion of a self-righteous prejudiced motherfucker like you isnt exactly convincing me I need to shower more or comb my hair. why hasn't this guy been banned for posting this shit yet? GG bro. ^^ Actually, shit like this needs more changing than what you described in your post. This passive-aggressive, 'umadbro' type of behavior is one of the most off putting things about the community. agree 100%, passive aggressive stupid replies are the most immature response you can give. Otherwise not too offended by this blog I tend to agree with some points Comebackid makes. I just think he should have worded it a lot more along the lines of.... "Gamer culture is so opposite of the mainstream that it almost revels in its uncaring attitude. Whilst Gamer culture is fantstic in that it embraces people from all walks of life and is so non-judgemental we as Gamers shouldn't stop caring about what the rest of society thinks of us. There are those of us who think it's ok to juts roll out of bed in our own filth and go to a barcraft and then use excessively vulgar language when our favourite player dies to a cheese. These people are in the minority but I do wish that these people who seem to just not give a shit and revel in the fact that as a Gamer they don't need to adhere to societal norms. I think this minority of gamers need to change their attitude. They don't need to develop metrosexual grooming habits or stop swearing all-together. Just a little bit of effort and discretion is all I ask for" Think this hits the nail on the head a bit better imo. Whaddya think comebackkid?
totally man. I was raging a bit when I wrote this blog. and i have to say that it is a bit uncalled for. I mean, sure people are guna act immature and screw around and that's fine. It does suck when it negatively effects other people, or when it negatively effects the scene, but whatever, its all part of havin fun and just acting the way we wana act.
I still think that a bunch of pros need to grow up when they are streaming. That's probably my biggest peeve these days. When kids sit in their basement and act like duchebags and have a few hundered-thousand people watching them. But even then, not enough mainstream people are watching and we viewers have the choice to turn off the stream so it is what it is.
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I think a lot of gamers have some kind of grand utopian vision of what e-sports should be like, yet I don't think it will ever reach that level. People always want to talk about SC2 "going big", and they think in order to do that we need to completely change who we are as a community in order to fit in with what they perceive to be mainstream standards. But the main reason the game has become so popular is because of the community behind it. The "nerdy" community around starcraft 2 has what's driven SC2's success, so you can't really incite a call-to-arms to force the community to change, when its the community thats made the game so popular in the first place. You can't dig out the roots and expect the tree to still live.
That being said, I would like to see some standard's be raised, especially on the ladder. Opponents calling each other "nigger" and "Faggot" all the time certainly don't help the scene.
In the end though, a lot of excitement in the SC2 scenes comes from the drama and the controversy. And neutering ourselves will never be the make or break change that allows SC2 to grow bigger. Players should get mad when they lose, casters shouldn't be afraid to tell a risky joke once in a while, viewers should be allowed to swear out loud when their favorite player loses. its part of the lawlessness of the scene that makes it so fun. And besides, you'll see these type of things in other sports as well.
Also, I think a lot of SC2 fans are a lot more "normal" than you think. We're not all basement-trolls who disregard hygiene and social-manners.
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From what I have seen over the past year and a half, the community is growing up. The response to orb's use of racial slurs and the dramatic shift in responses to threads about transgender issues are signs of it - things I can talk to people in my real life about as evidence that slowly the culture is shifting. There is still a lot of change needed before all groups of people feel welcome in gaming, but the change is happening and it has been happening for a while.
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From my experience there are other people who are more likely call people nigger, faggot cuntheads. They're usually the average Joe you see on any night out.
Now while you do raise decent points, I feel most of them are borne out of close mindedness and ignorance. For example can you really eyeball the Barcraft crowd as being different from the football crowd from these pics apart from the gamer crowd having more blokes?
![[image loading]](http://www.demotix.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/large_652x488_scaled/photos/soccer-fans-crowd-o-brien-s-pub-watch-women-s-world-cup-finals_759331.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.jorosar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/20111020-LondonBarcraft.jpg)
While we're here, I think all black people should wear less tracksuit bottoms and hoodies so people might not think they are all criminals and out to mug people (sarcasm of course).
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EPT![[image loading]](http://ifeelokay.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/stephen-fry-on-being-offended.jpg)
