|
On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote: Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly.
Oh god! I remember being on Effexor Difficult enough to get it up (keep it up either), nearly impossible to get off. The idea of long-lasting sex is neat until you realize that it really is never-ending; shitsux
+ Show Spoiler +Feels almost the same as stimdick. In fact pretty much is the same effect.
|
On March 23 2012 01:23 FFGenerations wrote:ruXxar : its disease-like because its something you get stuck in , it re-enforces itself , like the "bad chemicals" reproduce themselves and block the "good chemicals" in a constant effect . or you can just think of it as "trauma" . if you've ever been traumatised, like you're afraid of spiders or something, you know how innate that is. if you had a really bad relationship then you could say it traumatised you and now you're psychologically fucked up. disease in the dictionary is not a clearly defined word anyway, it just means "somethings wrong" Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 00:49 Sayle wrote: How do you distinguish between someone who is really shy and someone who has this disorder? id say the difference is that a "shy" person isnt really bothered by their shyness as such. like a cute "shy" girl might not find any problem with her "shyness". social anxiety is defined by its anxiety, and anxiety is hard to describe - its easier to describe the symptoms eg inability to "be yourself" , relax , concentrate, butterflies in stomach, tenseness, stress, self doubt, doubt about everything, overthinking everything, being unsure of everything, lack of confidence, low ego, racing thoughts, fear without cause, self-loathing, whatever
On traumas : that exactly is my point. You had an experience which led to yourself being condition a certain way. The time span can differ for different incidents, but in the end it was an experience that led to a person developing that way.
I would say the same applies for anxieties. Some sort of experience, whether over a short or longer timespan led to the person developing that anxiety.
|
On March 23 2012 01:30 FFGenerations wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. it can develop in any infinite number of ways. you can see it clearly in the animal kingdom. monkeys/whatever that are outcast from their tribe because other monkeys dont like them for whatever reason. then they get depressed, refuse to eat, blah blah, have to be moved to their own cage, its a sad story. you can call it a disorder if you want. like i said, the word "disease" doesnt actually mean anything specific anyway...... the brain is the brain, if there are fucked up wires then there will be problems, it doesnt matter how deep or shallow you care to look at it; the problems are there
Right, but if your emotions can be "wired" to a "bad" way. Certainly they could be "wired" back to a "good" way?
And humans are not animals, if we get cast out from our friend circle it doesn't mean we have to live without friends for the rest of our lives. We have new opportunities, if we're willing to take them.
|
On March 23 2012 01:47 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 01:30 FFGenerations wrote:On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. it can develop in any infinite number of ways. you can see it clearly in the animal kingdom. monkeys/whatever that are outcast from their tribe because other monkeys dont like them for whatever reason. then they get depressed, refuse to eat, blah blah, have to be moved to their own cage, its a sad story. you can call it a disorder if you want. like i said, the word "disease" doesnt actually mean anything specific anyway...... the brain is the brain, if there are fucked up wires then there will be problems, it doesnt matter how deep or shallow you care to look at it; the problems are there Right, but if your emotions can be "wired" to a "bad" way. Certainly they could be "wired" back to a "good" way? That's generally the goal of therapy ;p However it's not so "certain," unfortunately, and you can't turn every stone back to its proper place in your brain either.
To target a specific point:
The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him.
I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first.
What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. The difference between it happening in one instance (the former) and both instances is the presence of an actual cognitive issue: that is the difference between being a "shy" person and having "social anxiety." The environment definitely has a major role in whether or not/how a disorder is uncovered or how severe it will be, but it won't be the only cause of the problem.
|
On March 23 2012 01:35 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 01:23 Klockan3 wrote:On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. Firstly, stop being an ignorant twat. I grew up with 5 siblings and my family had a lot of contact with farther relatives as well and I had a lot of friends as a child and I developed these problems anyway. It isn't about "training" or so. Secondly, why do this matter? A disease can mean anything which significantly impairs functioning in some way. Also things like cancer are very dependent on how you live and I believe that you would accept it as a disease, just because there are lifestyle factors doesn't meant that it isn't a disease. It is extremely hard to change yourself mentally. As an example imagine the thing in the world which you hate and loathe the most. Like a person, some cult, a movement, a game, some food or some music. Now try to go from loathing it to loving it, right now before you start reading the next sentence. Can you do it? Probably not. Why? You really gain nothing from loathing and hating things like that. Imagine now that you loathe and hate peoples attention that much. Every time you go out and every time you meet someone you feel it. Wouldn't that be a hell way worse than anything you ever have experienced? Psychology isn't trivial, don't ever be ignorant about it again please. I'm not trying to downplay the severity of it. I'm trying to understand how it makes sense. The way I see it, most of these anxieties are related to thoughts and emotions. I believe that thoughts are something we humans can partially control. If you get conditioned into one of these anxieties, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to condition yourself out of them as well? Or are you trying to tell me that you've had social anxieties as long as you can remember? If not, how did it develop in you? I know that you can control it, but it ain't that simple. Did you try my thought experiment? Think of something which you feel that you are justified to hate. Then try to love it. That is all but impossible. The point is that you actually believe that people actually are disgusted by and hates you, so feeling shame and guilt when you are near them is justified.
I am not exactly sure how it developed, I remember that I suddenly started thinking that everyone loathes being with me and that I am an evil person for wanting to be with them when all I do is spreading suffering and unhappiness. That was 14 years ago. My childhood wasn't unproblematic but looking back I don't really see what would have caused all of this, I didn't have any problems at all when I was 8. Anyway, I am much better now than what I have been before. But still I need extreme mental discipline or I fall back thinking that it is impossible to like me, that those who know me don't like me and that they will soon stop anyway. That it is better to not like others since it just hurts them being liked by someone they hate etc. That is my default way of thinking about everyone and that is where my mind naturally goes when I don't actively keeps it where it is rational to have it. Thus I am very unstable and every time I lose it I need to work it back, takes a few weeks or so.
|
On March 23 2012 01:47 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 01:30 FFGenerations wrote:On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. it can develop in any infinite number of ways. you can see it clearly in the animal kingdom. monkeys/whatever that are outcast from their tribe because other monkeys dont like them for whatever reason. then they get depressed, refuse to eat, blah blah, have to be moved to their own cage, its a sad story. you can call it a disorder if you want. like i said, the word "disease" doesnt actually mean anything specific anyway...... the brain is the brain, if there are fucked up wires then there will be problems, it doesnt matter how deep or shallow you care to look at it; the problems are there Right, but if your emotions can be "wired" to a "bad" way. Certainly they could be "wired" back to a "good" way? And humans are not animals, if we get cast out from our friend circle it doesn't mean we have to live without friends for the rest of our lives. We have new opportunities, if we're willing to take them.
yes...yes we are animals...primates to be exact
|
That really sucks. I am hoping right now that the anxiety I am suffering is a mild form of what you're experiencing. Hang in there man
|
Hi OP, I'm pretty much the same, same age even.
The social isolation, anticipatory anxiety, panic attacks, depressions and manias even. They're like super annoying bees coming in overwhelming numbers at times and maybe we can't do anything about them but to challenge them and lose over and over again.
Luckily there's always something to keep you going. I guess this is something we all have in common. Whether we are pitiful or in a disadvantage compared to most of the population I dare not guess, and I don't find that important either. Focus on yourself and stay strong, keep fighting! When you feel like you're hitting the bottom and you can't hold onto your non-existing friends, think of all the people in the same situation you're in. That's all I've figured so far. GL HF
|
Hey OP, I'm in the same boat as you. I've lived alone while going through college also, and I just couldn't take that. Literally one of the most miserable periods of my life. So I decided to move back into the college housing and luckily I got some nerdy gamer roommates. I'm still nowhere on the girlfriend front, but at least I have some friends.
My point is that you shouldn't live by yourself because that leads to nothing but isolation. Though of course I don't know your full situation.
Anyways, nice blog. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only person in the world with as much anxiety as I have so it's nice to know there are others with the same struggles
|
@Ruxxar
A lot of your questions should be easily answered if you bothered to read up on some basic psychology, like why all these disorders started popping up in the latest century. (The science itself is barely over a century old FYI) And if you are looking for 100% accurate answers you are in the wrong field. There are no exact answers in psychology, the brain is too complex for that, and there are usually several factors contributing to a disorder, and people will discuss and argue whatever is most important etc. And disregarding accepted science like you do can be viewed as disrespectful to people who are actually sick. You wouldn't go to a cancer patient and tell him you didn't believe in cancer would you?
|
Reading OP's post kinda feels like reading about myself, except not that bad(yet). I have few people that I talk to(from childhood, because can't make any new friends), and even that happens rarely. Only place where I can somewhat express myself is here on TL, and that's because no one know who I am and that reduces the pressure(a bit) of what being social causes(if writing on forums can be called socializing). Recently there was group worked assigned at school, I went to the appointed table and froze completely: I didn't say a word, started to sweat out of control and my mind raced with stupid, irrational thoughts... I'm not sure if I actually have an illness as self-diagnosis is not recommended(afaik). Maybe I should go see a doctor...
OP, you're doing better than the majority, good luck!
|
On March 23 2012 02:03 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 01:35 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 01:23 Klockan3 wrote:On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. Firstly, stop being an ignorant twat. I grew up with 5 siblings and my family had a lot of contact with farther relatives as well and I had a lot of friends as a child and I developed these problems anyway. It isn't about "training" or so. Secondly, why do this matter? A disease can mean anything which significantly impairs functioning in some way. Also things like cancer are very dependent on how you live and I believe that you would accept it as a disease, just because there are lifestyle factors doesn't meant that it isn't a disease. It is extremely hard to change yourself mentally. As an example imagine the thing in the world which you hate and loathe the most. Like a person, some cult, a movement, a game, some food or some music. Now try to go from loathing it to loving it, right now before you start reading the next sentence. Can you do it? Probably not. Why? You really gain nothing from loathing and hating things like that. Imagine now that you loathe and hate peoples attention that much. Every time you go out and every time you meet someone you feel it. Wouldn't that be a hell way worse than anything you ever have experienced? Psychology isn't trivial, don't ever be ignorant about it again please. I'm not trying to downplay the severity of it. I'm trying to understand how it makes sense. The way I see it, most of these anxieties are related to thoughts and emotions. I believe that thoughts are something we humans can partially control. If you get conditioned into one of these anxieties, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to condition yourself out of them as well? Or are you trying to tell me that you've had social anxieties as long as you can remember? If not, how did it develop in you? I know that you can control it, but it ain't that simple. Did you try my thought experiment? Think of something which you feel that you are justified to hate. Then try to love it. That is all but impossible. The point is that you actually believe that people actually are disgusted by and hates you, so feeling shame and guilt when you are near them is justified. I am not exactly sure how it developed, I remember that I suddenly started thinking that everyone loathes being with me and that I am an evil person for wanting to be with them when all I do is spreading suffering and unhappiness. That was 14 years ago. My childhood wasn't unproblematic but looking back I don't really see what would have caused all of this, I didn't have any problems at all when I was 8. Anyway, I am much better now than what I have been before. But still I need extreme mental discipline or I fall back thinking that it is impossible to like me, that those who know me don't like me and that they will soon stop anyway. That it is better to not like others since it just hurts them being liked by someone they hate etc. That is my default way of thinking about everyone and that is where my mind naturally goes when I don't actively keeps it where it is rational to have it.
Pretty much exactly my situation too(I won't say this is me suffering from a mental disease for ME atleast, I just see it as EXTREMELY bad self confidence), although going to the gym and actively giving myself comments and re-assessing/confiriming that I'm good(inner dialogue type stuff), that I'm worth something to others etc has helped alot.
I'm a pretty logical person so in my inner dialogue(wtever you call it) I usually compare myself objectively to other stuff(which actually is ILLOGICAL if you think about doing something in an objective manner where subjectivity is a big factor(personality etc)).
Like if I'm going to the gym and I can actually look at myself in the mirror and see that I'm becoming more muscular as a result of it. Then I can accept that I am starting to look good.
This is of course in my mind only true, if the social norm(majority obviously != fact but when it comes to stuff such as "looking good" etc it pretty much is, unless you're a total baller with awesome self confidence that makes weird shit work) is that looking good is through being fit. And that gives me a reason to start liking my own body right, like sort of an objective way of measuring it. "Because of this, this and this, I can now see myself in a positive light, not just because I have some "belief" that I look good, I actually have it on paper that yes I look good because of this fact".
Alot of this shit just came through watching alot of PUA material and coming to a pretty cliché epiphany. I'm not following the PUA stuff by the book or even religiously following it but it gave me some perspective. And my inner dialogue basically went like this after awhile.
"Hey this is your fucking life, are you going to live it shittily or are you actually going to work on yourself and become awesome? Because you deserve to have a good life and do whatever you want and other people deserve to see that you are awesome. There's no reason for you to mope around, so fucking dig in. Do the hard work that is needed to develop yourself. So I'm going to start looking good, become an awesome person(I probably already am) but I need to develop my social skills enough to be able to show it to others."
This sounds alittle arrogant at some places but it really isn't, the worst thing you can do when working on self-improvement is NOT acknowledging your own shortcomings. It's when you really start doing that that you're starting to become arrogant.
So I'm just generally always thinking positively, and I genuinely am a really positive fucking super happy guy, but my severe lack of confidence stops me from showing that so I'm gonna work on it. And jesus christ, the whole stepping out of your comfort zone is fucking INTENSE. Like it's SERIOUSLY fucking hard to do it, but I know that that's what's necessary in order for me to progress. So my mindset changed to no matter what situation occurs that I usually would just avoid at all costs, I now try to embrace instead and just do that shit in an as confident way as possible and if I didn't succeed then I know that that helped me develop more than not having done it.
And like you said klockan3, it takes extreme mental discipline to be self confident(I'm paraphrasing abit to make it fit in with what I'm talking about lol, sorry).
It's so fucking EASY to rationalize things towards a negative conclusion when you're coming from a place of extremely bad self concidence. I like to shittily and uninformatively compare it to electricity and how it works, electricity is lazy and always takes the shortest possible route to get to where it's getting lead to.
And negativity is just that, it's fucking lazy thinking that OBVIOUSLY that hot chick on the train was looking at you for all the wrong reasons. NO, fuck that. She was looking at you because you are a handsome motherfucker and she's lucky to even be looking at you and even being in the vicinity of you.
I'm obviously exaggerating a bit but this is what you kind of gotta do, just take the positivity to an extreme(internally, and externally as much as possible without making it seem weird and out of place obviously:D) and it'll eventually manifest itself, and so will your confidence and social skills and ability to work in social settings as well.
I'm not sure what the point of this post is and why I typed it in such a lectural(even a word?) manner, I don't really feel like I have any merit in "teaching" anyone this. It wasn't even really on topic, but I'm just feeling generally awesome these days and I hope someone can find something useful in some of my insight on how I managed to become more positive.(I have like three laps around the globe left in terms of getting to where I want to be in my life. So it's not like I'm some fucking complete and perfect human being glowing with personality and confidence and having my perfect life, but I'm on my way and it feels good!)
|
On March 23 2012 02:03 Klockan3 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 01:35 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 01:23 Klockan3 wrote:On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. Firstly, stop being an ignorant twat. I grew up with 5 siblings and my family had a lot of contact with farther relatives as well and I had a lot of friends as a child and I developed these problems anyway. It isn't about "training" or so. Secondly, why do this matter? A disease can mean anything which significantly impairs functioning in some way. Also things like cancer are very dependent on how you live and I believe that you would accept it as a disease, just because there are lifestyle factors doesn't meant that it isn't a disease. It is extremely hard to change yourself mentally. As an example imagine the thing in the world which you hate and loathe the most. Like a person, some cult, a movement, a game, some food or some music. Now try to go from loathing it to loving it, right now before you start reading the next sentence. Can you do it? Probably not. Why? You really gain nothing from loathing and hating things like that. Imagine now that you loathe and hate peoples attention that much. Every time you go out and every time you meet someone you feel it. Wouldn't that be a hell way worse than anything you ever have experienced? Psychology isn't trivial, don't ever be ignorant about it again please. I'm not trying to downplay the severity of it. I'm trying to understand how it makes sense. The way I see it, most of these anxieties are related to thoughts and emotions. I believe that thoughts are something we humans can partially control. If you get conditioned into one of these anxieties, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to condition yourself out of them as well? Or are you trying to tell me that you've had social anxieties as long as you can remember? If not, how did it develop in you? I know that you can control it, but it ain't that simple. Did you try my thought experiment? Think of something which you feel that you are justified to hate. Then try to love it. That is all but impossible. The point is that you actually believe that people actually are disgusted by and hates you, so feeling shame and guilt when you are near them is justified. I am not exactly sure how it developed, I remember that I suddenly started thinking that everyone loathes being with me and that I am an evil person for wanting to be with them when all I do is spreading suffering and unhappiness. That was 14 years ago. My childhood wasn't unproblematic but looking back I don't really see what would have caused all of this, I didn't have any problems at all when I was 8. Anyway, I am much better now than what I have been before. But still I need extreme mental discipline or I fall back thinking that it is impossible to like me, that those who know me don't like me and that they will soon stop anyway. That it is better to not like others since it just hurts them being liked by someone they hate etc. That is my default way of thinking about everyone and that is where my mind naturally goes when I don't actively keeps it where it is rational to have it. Thus I am very unstable and every time I lose it I need to work it back, takes a few weeks or so.
The difference here is that when I hate or fear something, there's a logical reason as to why I do that.
Example : I have a fear of bees. The reason why I fear bees is because i've been stung several times, and it hurts a lot. I developed the condition that I should avoid bees.
If I try to tell myself that I love bees, that would be a lie, because I know that bees have a tendency to sting(from experience).
Taking the same example to a social setting it would be like : "I'm afraid of being social because from experience most people are negative towards me". Or : studies have shown that statistically 90% of people are negative towards each other in a social setting.
Then I could understand the anxiety of a social setting.
What I don't understand is how you can have anxiety for something based on claims which have no factual evidence. And I don't believe such an anxiety would develop in a person that grows up in a very social community where he himself is social.
Or is someone who is social with friends etc, one day going to wake up and think that everyone hates him? Why would he even start to think that without some kind of experience to lead him in that direction?. I don't see any possibility of such a thought emerging in such a person.
EDIT :
Just to give some background info on my self :
I am very shy and do not feel comfortable in large social events. I often hesitate to speak up and have low self confidence. I realize that the reason for this is that when I was young I got addicted to computer games and distanced myself more and more from people.
I do not consider myself to have a social anxiety because of that. I know that to be more social I just need to condition myself in a social environment.
|
That sounds incredibly rough. I can't really give you any advice, though.
|
This is a very honest and eye opening blog. Just a shot in dark: have you considered taking acting classes? Maybe that can help you cope with social situations a little bit better -- even if it's only a superficial solution.
|
On March 23 2012 03:02 ruXxar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 23 2012 02:03 Klockan3 wrote:On March 23 2012 01:35 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 01:23 Klockan3 wrote:On March 23 2012 01:11 ruXxar wrote:On March 23 2012 00:50 Shai wrote:I have Generalized Anxiety Disorder or Panic Disorder (I'm somewhere in the middle) but I can understand a lot of what you're going through. Definitely don't drink much or do any serious drugs. The biggest thing for me has been finding a balance between getting enough time alone and spending enough time with other people. If you only spend time with other people it will trigger your anxiety, but if you spend time only by yourself your episodes will get worse. Oh and don't let your doctor give you Effexxor if you plan on being in a relationship. It's a common anti-depressant/anxietant which works ok, but it has ... weird side effects for some people. I, and many other people who have taken the drug, was always turned on but could never reach climax on the drug. That might sound like it makes you a Viking in the sack, but never getting sexual gratification wears thin pretty quickly. On March 23 2012 00:45 ruXxar wrote: I don't understand all the people that have these anxieties and phobias and whatnot. Is this something that have developed among humans in the last century?
I'm not talking about people with real diseases that you can pinpoint to a physiological damage in the brain or an infection in the body. I'm talking about these mental disorders that people have. Can they be linked to anything concrete? Or are they simply a result of not having the necessary experience amongst crowds, in a group and being conditioned over the years to have a low self confidence?
I can't believe that there's any physiological reason as to why a person would have such a condition, and must then conclude that it's due to how the person has been interacting with his environment while growing up, be it self imposed, or imposed by others.
I just don't see how this can be labeled as a disease. There is a genetic component to it - I have mental illness in my family spread both outwards and upwards. It is also physically measurable as a chemical imbalance in the brain. Mental illness has existed for ever, but pre-modern society just let those who were afflicted go without help so that they would eventually go hungry from lack of work or support. A similar comparison is that we used to call all people with any cognitive disabilities Mentally Retarded, but now we know there are many different reasons for doing poorly at school, including mental illnesses (depression and anxiety), Autism, dislexia, Downs Syndrome, and yes, low IQ (mental retardation). The point i was trying to make is that a person with downs syndrome is going to have downs syndrome whether he lives alone on an island or with a family of 5 and a huge friend circle around him. I'm not convinced that a person would develop social anxiety in the latter case, but can understand a person developing it in the first. What I'm getting at is that social anxiety is formed by the the environment you grow up in. Firstly, stop being an ignorant twat. I grew up with 5 siblings and my family had a lot of contact with farther relatives as well and I had a lot of friends as a child and I developed these problems anyway. It isn't about "training" or so. Secondly, why do this matter? A disease can mean anything which significantly impairs functioning in some way. Also things like cancer are very dependent on how you live and I believe that you would accept it as a disease, just because there are lifestyle factors doesn't meant that it isn't a disease. It is extremely hard to change yourself mentally. As an example imagine the thing in the world which you hate and loathe the most. Like a person, some cult, a movement, a game, some food or some music. Now try to go from loathing it to loving it, right now before you start reading the next sentence. Can you do it? Probably not. Why? You really gain nothing from loathing and hating things like that. Imagine now that you loathe and hate peoples attention that much. Every time you go out and every time you meet someone you feel it. Wouldn't that be a hell way worse than anything you ever have experienced? Psychology isn't trivial, don't ever be ignorant about it again please. I'm not trying to downplay the severity of it. I'm trying to understand how it makes sense. The way I see it, most of these anxieties are related to thoughts and emotions. I believe that thoughts are something we humans can partially control. If you get conditioned into one of these anxieties, I don't see why you shouldn't be able to condition yourself out of them as well? Or are you trying to tell me that you've had social anxieties as long as you can remember? If not, how did it develop in you? I know that you can control it, but it ain't that simple. Did you try my thought experiment? Think of something which you feel that you are justified to hate. Then try to love it. That is all but impossible. The point is that you actually believe that people actually are disgusted by and hates you, so feeling shame and guilt when you are near them is justified. I am not exactly sure how it developed, I remember that I suddenly started thinking that everyone loathes being with me and that I am an evil person for wanting to be with them when all I do is spreading suffering and unhappiness. That was 14 years ago. My childhood wasn't unproblematic but looking back I don't really see what would have caused all of this, I didn't have any problems at all when I was 8. Anyway, I am much better now than what I have been before. But still I need extreme mental discipline or I fall back thinking that it is impossible to like me, that those who know me don't like me and that they will soon stop anyway. That it is better to not like others since it just hurts them being liked by someone they hate etc. That is my default way of thinking about everyone and that is where my mind naturally goes when I don't actively keeps it where it is rational to have it. Thus I am very unstable and every time I lose it I need to work it back, takes a few weeks or so. The difference here is that when I hate or fear something, there's a logical reason as to why I do that. Example : I have a fear of bees. The reason why I fear bees is because i've been stung several times, and it hurts a lot. I developed the condition that I should avoid bees. If I try to tell myself that I love bees, that would be a lie, because I know that bees have a tendency to sting(from experience). Taking the same example to a social setting it would be like : "I'm afraid of being social because from experience most people are negative towards me". Or : studies have shown that statistically 90% of people are negative towards each other in a social setting. Then I could understand the anxiety of a social setting. What I don't understand is how you can have anxiety for something based on claims which have no factual evidence. And I don't believe such an anxiety would develop in a person that grows up in a very social community where he himself is social. Or is someone who is social with friends etc, one day going to wake up and think that everyone hates him? Why would he even start to think that without some kind of experience to lead him in that direction?. I don't see any possibility of such a thought emerging in such a person. EDIT : Just to give some background info on my self : I am very shy and do not feel comfortable in large social events. I often hesitate to speak up and have low self confidence. I realize that the reason for this is that when I was young I got addicted to computer games and distanced myself more and more from people. I do not consider myself to have a social anxiety because of that. I know that to be more social I just need to condition myself in a social environment. Most bees you encountered didn't sting you, they were just nicely tending their flowers and in general just minding their own business. Bees in general are not aggressive at all, so a fear of them is irrational unless you are allergic. I was fearful of wasps before but I used my rational thinking, if the wasps get no reason to sting me then they wont. Also being stung doesn't really hurt that much, the fear is way worse than the physical pain. If you don't scare them then they wont sting you, and wasps are way more aggressive than bees and they got stronger poison. Wasps are still a bit unnerving since the fear is still lurking, but still I have encountered wasps a lot during my lifetime and I have just been stung like 10 times so the fear is hurting way more than the combined pain from the stings.
For me I have no problem at all interacting with people, I have taught classes and when people near me talks about a subject where I feel that I can add something I get a really strong urge to but in and have my say. When I am fully mentally prepared I can do anything. But then as I start to get drained and I get some time to think all of that goes away, all I can think of then is that I really shouldn't be here with these people, they don't know me and would never accept me, it is just a question of time before they will lose all faith in me. It is like the wasps, I know that it is irrational to worry but the fear of the sting is taking its toll even if I mostly can ignore it for short periods of time.
|
The bee analogy is quite good. What happened to me that I consider sparked the social anxiety was my friends held an intervention for me, claiming I was gay and telling me to come out of the closet, even after I had gotten angry with one of them in the past for flirting with my crush, and opening up to another about girls I liked. The problem was not that they thought I was gay, rather, that they did not take me seriously when I opened up about my troubles with women, and that they would simmer their idea of gay-me for a while before holding an intervention where it was clear they discussed it behind my back first.
After this I isolated myself, and didn't really want to be around people for a few weeks. I still had to go to class though, so when I went to class, I tried to find a spot where no one was sitting. One day I sat down in a big lecture hall right in the center of a small grouping of empty seats, just so I could have my peace and not be disturbed any more than I already had been recently due to the intervention. Some asshole decides it's a good idea to talk about me to his friends about 1-2 rows of desks away. But he acted like he wasn't talking about me, he pretended it was him who "had problems." He said stuff like "I don't have any friends." and "I don't wanna sit by anybody today." but he said it with a whiny tone that made it sound like he was talking about someone else, 95% chance it's me. It's like, can't you just walk over and say hi instead of being an asshole? Edit: not like I'm gonna load some stranger with my recent disturbing friendship problems and basically impose myself as being alone and in need of real friendship.
Then little stuff like what happened with that guy kept happening with random other people, and I became aware of how women indirectly ridicule you in public while you are sitting with them in a group setting. They simply talk about someone else that you don't know as though that person is a direct clone of you, and then discuss how they feel about this or that thing that the person does or something they don't like about how he looks. What gets awkward is if you ask them questions about the guy they're talking about and you can even find out some of them don't exist if you really want to know that I'm telling you the truth here.
Edit: Hell, there's even a book by a woman that appears to be on this very subject: http://books.google.com/books/about/In_the_company_of_women.html?id=LuVkZzu4aHoC
The feelings kind of snowball until you're close to misanthropy.
Also, just something for ruXxar, please try to be more considerate of people. Don't explicitly say you have a hard time believing in something that others experience concretely. I understand you don't mean hurt, just please try to use your words more carefully in the future.
|
god i just went to my work's staff leaving/birthday/combo party what a nightmare so awkward i had to leave after 2 hours coz i got more and more uncomfortable and couldnt stand it i even had a "bro" to chill with but i dont drink so i could only foresee awkwardness in the future and was already too uncomfortable by the time he turned up he was like "sometimes you just have to let it go and chill out" i dont even know what that means , to me it means get shitfaced and everything is awesome, but i havent drank for 6+ months and last time that happened i was an awkward disaster anyway im not even awkward i dont think, just no one really talks to me / tries to engage with me, and i try to engage others but it falters out and have nothing to say to some people except random stuff like "do you play a musical instrument" wtf completely hopeless -__-
|
On March 23 2012 03:26 phosphorylation wrote: This is a very honest and eye opening blog. Just a shot in dark: have you considered taking acting classes? Maybe that can help you cope with social situations a little bit better -- even if it's only a superficial solution.
im sure this would be helpful
|
The whole discussion of whether it's "real" disease or whether there's a physiological cause is pretty pointless.
Ultimately, the patient is diagnosed with the disorder if his anxiety is causing him problems in his everyday life => From the definition, there can be various causes - substance abuse, genetics, medical causes, unfortunate childhood, a significant event in life - usually a combination of these.
If the patient has a problem and there are ways to help him, it's a good thing that he's diagnosed. It's not like you get diagnosed with anxiety disorder 73% and bipolar disorder 27% anyway, it's just to get an idea of what the patient is going through and what could make him better.
Does anyone suggest that only those with a known medical cause should be treated? If the person is faking it, it's probably Münchausen and there should be ways to find the patient out and help him. Otherwise, what's there to discuss? Afaik more than 25% (or 50% even? not sure) of people with bipolar disorder commit a suicide. With these data in mind, does anyone hesitate to call that a "real disease"?
|
|
|
|