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Let me preface this by saying I am old enough to have grown up playing NES games up until i was like 5 or so when the Super Nintendo came out. However, growing up, the Castlevania series had always eluded me. I didn't begin playing Castlevania games until the Gameboy Advance. I didn't give Circle of Moon or Harmony of Dissonance a fair shake. Dropped them pretty early into their stories. Though I don't know how much I'll still like Circle of Moons card-based weapons.
However, I did like their gameplay up to a point to give Aria of Sorrow a shot. And good God, did I love that game. I loved the blend of RPG and Metroid-like exploration (Oh yeah, and I've always liked Metroid as well). I liked the regular weapon system and I loved the Soul System. I would go far as to say that Aria of Sorrow is one the the two best games in the entire GBA's incredible lineup. It and the Legend of Zelda: The Minnish Cap.
Since then I also played AS's sequel Dawn of Sorrow. Aside from the touch screen controls, it was also a great game. In fact, Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, and Order of Ecclesia are also among my top BEST games for the Nintendo DS. The action, exploration, and RPG elements all blend almost seamlessly for all of those games.
Now with no new Castlevanias having been released in a while (don't have a current console or PSP), I decided to go back and give Super Castlevania a chance (I'm not interested in any of the 3D games). I had the understanding that what I had experienced as Castlevania began with Symphony of the Night, and that the older ones were simple sidescrollers. And now that i have beaten Super Castlevania, I have to say I did not really get the same enjoyment I got out of it as I do from the modern Castlevanias.
Now don't get me wrong, like I said before, I knew what I was getting into and that the gameplay would be a lot different. But I guess I just don't think its aged well. One thing I did not like is its subweapon system. Of course, they didn't really think of including the ability to have multiple sub-weapons until later in the series. Now, we all know that Crosses/Boomerangs were the best thing in this game. But one of the main reasons this was so was because it only took 1 Heart instead of 5 like the others. When the Cross killed enemies in the same amount of hits as your Level 3 Whip. And could hit them multiple times. And I don't think its a mark of good gameplay to have been actively avoiding things that were supposed to be helping you.
On top of that, I had took look up a guide on what the II and III symbols did when you found them. Not intuitive at all. AND THEY DISAPPEAR WHEN YOU PICK UP A NEW WEAPON. Yet another reason to avoid any subweapons that weren't Crosses.
And then there are the STAIRS. There were several moments when I was playing that I just didn't think the stairs were working like they should have been. There were many times where I was pushing up left or up right while landing on the stairs and I still fell through them and died.
And of course, there is the difficulty of the game. I grew up during this period of gaming, so I know what to expect in difficult games. But I haven't played a retro game in a while. And good God was this game frustrating as fuck. I know that anyone who has played the older Castlevanias are going to tell you that you WILL get your ass kicked if you've been playing modern games for a long time. Fucking Bats. And fucking Medusa Heads. And you will get to the point of dropping it after your 20th game over or so. All because of a few missed jumps. That that you have to replay the entire level to get to. And also keep dying in your attempts to reach that point in the game. And good God are the bosses in the last stage before Dracula balls to the wall difficult. In contrast, I don't think Dracula was as difficult as, say Death. Dracula's patterns were easy enough to avoid once learning them.
And the main reason I guess this game feels off to me is that I feel the platforming just wasn't as refined as older Mario and Sonic games. Modern Castlevania games took note from Metroid and really got the Platforming gameplay down great. I guess the platforming is the main reason I didn't like this game as much.
And there's the simple fact that I love exploration. And this game really didn't have that much of a focus on exploration. No big rewards for exploring except 2 areas at the end that would required a guide for me to find (the Whirlwind Tunnels in 9-2 and the the invisible area under the stairs right before Dracula). And that's just Health and Hearts. Only 1 one-up (more would have been incredibly helpful), and nothing that really changes the game for you and makes things a bit easier like the Armor Upgrades of Mega Man X.
So I probably wont bother playing 1-3 if Super Castlevania was supposed to be a next-generation version of those games. I might try and find Rondo of Blood somewhere online though. I realize that 1 game isn't enough to really judge a whole "school" of games, but right now, I really think that Modern Castlevanias are definitely the better school of games. Now, I'm off to play Symphony of the Night for the first time.
Anyone else love Castlevania?
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I've been thinking of Castlevania recently because of the soundtrack--so good. I listened to the songs from the first 3 series today.
Yea. I'm not sure you would enjoy the first 3 games. Oddly enough, I've only played the first three as I think I'm a bit older than you and I don't think I want to play beyond those as this game is enshrined in a place in my childhood that doesn't need to be tampered with.
As I've gotten older, I lack the patience to go back to these older games. The only NES (first system) game I've had the patience to win again is Zelda. Castlevania will likely annoy the hell out of you as you can sink a lot of time into it, only to make a slight mechanical mistake that leaves you dead.
Your post reminds me of how damn hard it used to be to just JUMP in a video game...Super Mario Bros. improved upon it by allowing you to get up a head of steam before your jump, but so many of these old games require precise timing in a way that isn't nearly as fulfilling to me as the timing needed in SC2.
That said, I really loved Simon's Quest. It was a huge improvement on the first Castlevania and if you are using an emulator, it won't hurt to give it a try.
I loved Castlevania. I still love the music.
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It feels like some of the games that have defined a genre themselves happen when smooth control comes along. Mario had very simple controls, played smoothly and in turn was amazing.
A great example is wolfenstein 3D, a great game, but most would tend to think as doom as the most influential shooter of all time. Now doom does not have jumping but the movement is very smooth. A good comparision (Not everyone loves speedruns but I think they're awesome!) is if you check kimoxvirus' channel on youtube he has a full run of episode 1 in wolfenstein vs a run of the inferno episode in doom 1. Now wolfenstein is a great game don't get me wrong, but when I watch the two speedruns the wolfenstein movement is much more clunky and static.
This is why I think doom and mario have aged fairly well in comparison to say castlevania. (I haven't played castlevania, just basing it on OP)
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Yeah, I'd say super castlevania is easier/more advanced than the previous 3 on the NES, so there is little chance of you liking them. Would say the same for rondo of blood. If you haven't played SOTN (can't tell from your post), that would probably more enjoyable for you.
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On March 22 2012 11:28 skatbone wrote:
I've been thinking of Castlevania recently because of the soundtrack--so good. I listened to the songs from the first 3 series today.
Yea. I'm not sure you would enjoy the first 3 games. Oddly enough, I've only played the first three as I think I'm a bit older than you and I don't think I want to play beyond those as this game is enshrined in a place in my childhood that doesn't need to be tampered with.
As I've gotten older, I lack the patience to go back to these older games. The only NES (first system) game I've had the patience to win again is Zelda. Castlevania will likely annoy the hell out of you as you can sink a lot of time into it, only to make a slight mechanical mistake that leaves you dead.
Your post reminds me of how damn hard it used to be to just JUMP in a video game...Super Mario Bros. improved upon it by allowing you to get up a head of steam before your jump, but so many of these old games require precise timing in a way that isn't nearly as fulfilling to me as the timing needed in SC2.
That said, I really loved Simon's Quest. It was a huge improvement on the first Castlevania and if you are using an emulator, it won't hurt to give it a try.
I loved Castlevania. I still love the music.
Yeah, the ONE thing I think this game does have in common with modern Castlevanias is that music is still great.
On March 22 2012 11:45 Urth wrote:
Yeah, I'd say super castlevania is easier/more advanced than the previous 3 on the NES, so there is little chance of you liking them. Would say the same for rondo of blood. If you haven't played SOTN (can't tell from your post), that would probably more enjoyable for you.
Yeah, I thought Super was hard. But if you read my entire thoughts, it wasn't just the difficulty that I didn't like. I'm used to hard difficulty, I grew up with hard difficulty, as long as it was kind of fair. There were just some things in Super that I think are gameplay flaws, or at least haven't aged well. The end bosses were hard, sure, but my main annoyance was with things like the subweapon system, the stairs, and simple platforming. But I've heard that Rondo of Blood is better than Super, so I want to give it a try, since Symphony is essentially a sequel to Rondo.
And no I have not played Symphony yet. Gonna try and find a working copy of Rondo before playing Symphony though.
Also, anyone have any thoughts on the Modern Metroidvanias in comparison to the Old School Sidescrolling Castlevanias? I found it surprising when I watched the Sequelitis video and found there was a portion of the fanbase that liked the older games in comparison to the newer ones. I thought almost everyone liked the Metroidvanias better, and that they were a good evolution of the series. Maybe it comes down to which games you played first.
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Okay, playing through Rondo of Blood now. The cutscenes are a little cheesy and I don't like playing as the girl. Using a guide because I'd definitely never even think to look at some of these places.
The game is kicking my ass. But you know what? I'm actually enjoying it a lot more than Super Castlevania IV. Mainly because it fixed one of my gripes, the subweapon system. I don't have to constantly avoid getting another subweapon, I can keep the subweapon I like until I want to change it. Axes and knives also now cost just 1 heart. Also, love the graphics of this game, really reminds me of the current Castlevania titles where the enemies die in flames.
The one gripe I still have from Super Castlevania IV is, as skatbone pointed out, the JUMPING. Namely, the jumping while trying to fight still doesn't feel quite as natural as I feel it could be and I feel the modern Castlevanias are.
But at the very least, I'm ENJOYING getting my ass beat in this game. I'm enjoying the rewarding feeling I get when I finally do beat a level, and not getting frustrated to the point of resorting to save states as I did in Super IV.
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Castlevania.. amazing series.
I pre-ordered PoR for the bonus goodies.
SOUNDTRACK CD IS AMAZING EVERY
SINGLE
TIME
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i can play like the whole aria of sorrow soundtrack in my head
i can probably play through the whole game in my head
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By modern Castlevania I see you're talking about the Metroidvanias like maybe SOTN, the 3 GBA titles (Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow), and the 3 DS titles (Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia) and not the 3D titles.
Personally I'm not much a fan of many aspects of the modern style: recovery items you can just stockpile and use in the menu, movement being too easy (e.g. double jump, spammable fly-to-the-ceiling, maybe floating), heavy backtracking to unlock new areas. I guess what some call backtracking, others call exploration.
But the stiff controls and slow movement of the older games just don't feel right these days. NES-era difficulty and repetition of stages for the sake of repetition (just to get to the next new area, which you'll then lose at) can be fun, but it's also tiring.
I think the games that are more to the middle are often the better ones, in Castlevania and in other series. e.g. out of Megaman series, I would say X or X2 is the best.
Out of the six portable games, I think Order of Ecclesia is the best, for the relative lack of backtracking and weapons system.
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If you were able to beat Castlevania III for the NES, you have god level video gaming skills. That game was hard as shit even when you chose the "easy" path. Then they had the nerve to make a 2nd play through which increased the difficulty. Honestly that was one of the hardest games I've ever played in my entire life.
On a side note, the music for the clockwork stage was bad ass as fuck.
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On March 25 2012 17:11 Myrmidon wrote:
By modern Castlevania I see you're talking about the Metroidvanias like maybe SOTN, the 3 GBA titles (Circle of the Moon, Harmony of Dissonance, Aria of Sorrow), and the 3 DS titles (Dawn of Sorrow, Portrait of Ruin, Order of Ecclesia) and not the 3D titles.
Personally I'm not much a fan of many aspects of the modern style: recovery items you can just stockpile and use in the menu, movement being too easy (e.g. double jump, spammable fly-to-the-ceiling, maybe floating), heavy backtracking to unlock new areas. I guess what some call backtracking, others call exploration.
But the stiff controls and slow movement of the older games just don't feel right these days. NES-era difficulty and repetition of stages for the sake of repetition (just to get to the next new area, which you'll then lose at) can be fun, but it's also tiring.
I think the games that are more to the middle are often the better ones, in Castlevania and in other series. e.g. out of Megaman series, I would say X or X2 is the best.
Out of the six portable games, I think Order of Ecclesia is the best, for the relative lack of backtracking and weapons system.
Initially I didn't like Order that much because, for what I think was the first time in a CV game, it took energy to do a basic attack. I didn't really care much for the Glymph system, felt like a watered-down version of Sorrows' Soul system (which remains my favorite weapon system). I appreciated the higher difficulty though.
Out of all the handhelds, I think Aria of Sorrow was my favorite, but that may have been because it was my first Castlevania.
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Demon/Dark souls is the new castlevania.
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On March 26 2012 06:58 architecture wrote:
Demon/Dark souls is the new castlevania.
I'm guessing you mean it's more similar to the sidescrolling action Castlevanias?
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symphony of the night was the last good castlevania IMO
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On March 26 2012 11:17 EleanorRIgby wrote:
symphony of the night was the last good castlevania IMO
And you've played all 6 of the last ones for handhelds? They're all very good to varying degrees, some of the best games for t heir systems.
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Well, finally beat Rondo of Blood. was a really good game, I liked it much better than Super Castlevania. Because of simple improvements like better control over my jumps, and a subweapon system that seemed a lot more imporved. Still don't see why everyone thinks Richter is so great and everything though.
Also stumbled upon Gametrailers' Castlevania retrospective:
http://www.gametrailers.com/game/the-castlevania-retrospective/13944
Now I have a choice between playing Bloodlines and Symphony of the Night. Anyone know how good Bloodlines is? Anyone recommend it?
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On April 04 2012 13:30 SKTerran.117 wrote:
Stop waiting and play sotn. It's that good.
I have no doubt, but then if Bloodlines doesn't match up, then the Bloodlines experience will forever be compared to SOTN. Especially since I like Metroidvanias more. So I want to get the ones I like less out of the way first before playing SOTN.
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Where do you think I got my username from? (hint: OoE)
I really liked OoE's music. Oh hell, I like all of Castlevania music. DoS was fun too... oh much RAGE after barely beating a boss then fucking up the symbol thingy!
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On April 05 2012 00:43 SKTerran.117 wrote:
Sotn is going to ruin the series for you regardless. Aside from being on the easy side, its miles ahead of all the others.
I hardly think it's gonna ruin anything. I'm willing to believe that AoS and the DS games are good enough that they wont be "ruined" by however good SOTN might be. Most people to tend to say things like that haven't played all the portable games.
On April 05 2012 03:20 OpticalShot wrote:
Where do you think I got my username from? (hint: OoE)
I really liked OoE's music. Oh hell, I like all of Castlevania music. DoS was fun too... oh much RAGE after barely beating a boss then fucking up the symbol thingy!
I liked OoE's difficulty, but wasn't much of a fan of the Glymph system. Soul System was better IMO.
You know, there was a reason that you had to open the door by drawing the symbol. It's so that you wouldn't forget when you fought the boss  . Though the touch screen controls in DoS were largely unnecessary, and they were done away with in subsequent DS titles.
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sotn is great. they still have the bad voice acting right?
i could never beat 1 or 3. in 1 i could never beat death. in 3 i could never beat the level after beating death. goddamn death.
simon's quest is just... i dunno. all sorts of whack. (i decided to beat this game last year on a retro run. this game sucks. ugh.)
i think the worst part of the nes games was definitely jumping. it's really awkward and they always put medusa heads right before you have to jump a pit, and then when you get hit by the medusa head and the screen scrolls back, another medusa head spawns and then you get confused and start walking backwards but then you get hit by the medusa head and somehow it makes you fall the other way, into the pit.
ah, good ol' nes platformers.
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EPT
