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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On March 11 2012 18:30 Ikonn wrote: Right but I would disagree with the analogy in the first place Why, it seems fairly representative to me. Perhaps the gap is too wide, but the spirit is still there. On March 11 2012 18:47 Kaal wrote: This is an excellent analogy of Brood War to Starcraft 2. Yes I can see that =P | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Yenticha
257 Posts
BUT, something that has barely been addressed here (I only read stuff about how sc2 is harder): am I the only one finding LoL really boring to *watch* ? Don't get me wrong, I like to play it. But to watch... And I do enjoy watching sc2, bw, quake 3, CS, wc3, tennis, soccer, judo, swimming... I am quite easily pleased when it comes to watching some competitive sport/activity. But LoL just looks horrible to watch. Camera misses tons of things, its really hard to understand what's going on during a 5v5 fight (even commentators and some players admit they dont understand sometimes...) So: do people watching the stream actually *watch*, enjoy, understand? Or is it more of a background thing thats nice to have running, like TV on when you do the dishes? | ||
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Cuddle
Sweden1345 Posts
Fact is, good LoL matches are far between while I can see top SC2 pros playing each other every day of the week. Also, while I understand SC2 and how the individual skill of the players clash to determine the outcome and while the individual (mechanical speed and so on) skill of a LoL-player isn't as high, the fact that it's a team game brings sooo much to the table. Team tactics, combos, life-savers, team fights, match plans...it's all really exciting to me. This might be just me growing up playing almost only team sports so I definitely know and love the dynamics of team based sports. I watched the monobattle tournament this weekend and loved every single minute of it. Not only because of the wacky antics and the drunk TB. :D Also, I'll watch a SC2 team league tournament over a individual tournament every day. Sure the games are still individual but the player choices and tactics really appeal to me. Yeah, sometimes it's a pain to watch a LoL match if the commentators miss stuff and yes, it's really hard to know what's going on in a full blown team fight. To me it's the stuff leading up to the team fights, the positioning, the cds saved, the initiation and the timing as well as the aftermath of the fight that is really intriguing, not the actual fight itself, that's just a product of everything else. Sure, sometimes someone does something in a team fight to really screw it up or totally win it but those things are usually obvious and not hard to catch. The intricate stuff that you don't see is still just a by product of the build up of the fight and you don't really need to follow every detail to know what happened if you kept an eye on farm, items, kda and positioning. Ah well, my morning rant. GG HF! | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On March 11 2012 22:01 EngrishTeacher wrote: I'm not going to go into detail about how you completely missed the point choosing to respond with huge paragraphs on an irrelevant personal preference, I'll just point out that you failed to address the most important issue: competitiveness (balance, minimizing the effect of luck, etc.) should be encouraged at all times, and LoL (and to a much lesser degree SC2) are stepping in the WRONG direction. It's almost laughable that you would bring up the example of chess, because other than a minor advantage at the start of every game, chess is fucking balanced as shit. LoL is, in comparison, a terrible game that's stepping in the wrong direction. Learn that. Pretty much everything I want to say about this issue I've already said here: http://mogwaismusings.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/in-defense-of-lol/ The only thing I want to add is that you're not giving real arguments about why LoL is going "in the WRONG direction" with regards to competitiveness when everything they've been doing to the game over the last year has been reducing the impact of luck and improving balance. Your whole argument seems to boil down to, "just look at LoL, they suck!" but you seem to have no higher understanding of the game of LoL and as such all your criticisms come off as baseless and petty. If you want to win people over, give them some real reasons why LoL is a bad competitive game (spoilers:+ Show Spoiler + it's not | ||
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Takkara
United States2503 Posts
On March 11 2012 05:26 Megaliskuu wrote: Do players streaming LoL get a ton of viewers? Or is it just these events. http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/qer2c/35767_broadcasters_streamed_league_of_legends_in/ Generally, there are more viewers for LoL streams than for SC2 streams, just to give an idea of the scale of it. Full disclosure: I love watching both games and their tourneys and streamers! | ||
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red_
United States8474 Posts
On March 11 2012 20:58 EngrishTeacher wrote: even watching top-tier LoL streams I realize that with a bit of training to expand my game knowledge, I'd be able to play just as well as the LoL "progamer". Why even make this statement? First, everyone here knows you won't make any attempt to back it up, and second, informed people know that it's just not true. You may be able to spend a generous amount of time(a few months) to learn the game mechanics(just because they require low APM doesn't mean you will apply that APM properly), the hero skills and interactions, the items and their progressions, etc; but you will certainly not reach a pro level in that time. The games are completely different, yet you think because they share a topdown view and a minimap that your play in a more mechanically demanding game instantly makes you superior. Out of curiosity, are you even good at SC2? | ||
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SuperFanBoy
New Zealand1068 Posts
I was surprised by how fast you can learn LoL, its very easy to pick up.. I think this fact deceives many people, just because it is easy to learn doesn't mean its easy to master. With 90+ champions and a variety of items and spells and builds you can do, the possibilities for different strategies is endless. LoL isn't a casual game.. as a player who was actually decent at sc2 I can't even maintain a 1400 rating in LoL after 3 months of playing. I think LoL will grow to be the biggest esport, I don't quite think the esports community has developed yet but the viewer count is much bigger than any other game and it will continue to grow. This might trigger many Korean pro gamers switching to LoL because the sponsorship money will be much higher. My dream is to see the Slayers team switching to LoL just to see how well they would do compared to the current teams. | ||
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PraefektMotus
Germany129 Posts
On March 11 2012 16:04 ImDrizzt wrote: SC is really different, I notice it when I listen to my mates on skype, they get so mad, angry, frustrated, moaning, being irrational when getting owned, fucking up, not doing well. And then when they are playing a LOL type of game, they easily get a feeling of "ahh, im pretty awesome at thiz yay". Maybe that helps as well, sc makes you feel x10 worse or something lol This is very important I think. No matter what you do in SC2, it always shoves you your mistakes in your face. Didn't spend money well, 2k mins and 1k gas in the bank. Forgot Overlords, supply blocked while Protoss is warping in shit at your door. Didn't pay attention for a second, zergling control group at the watch tower got annihilated. I don't really know why, but SC2 is a lot of "oh man I screwed that up" and VERY little of "wow that went well, that's cool". In my opinion, SC2 is hard to learn and hard to master, and the learning part can be very frustrating. Other games, you can just fire up and dick around a little bit, it's fine. SC2 is always so serious... | ||
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BordZ
Australia118 Posts
On March 13 2012 09:36 PraefektMotus wrote: This is very important I think. No matter what you do in SC2, it always shoves you your mistakes in your face. Didn't spend money well, 2k mins and 1k gas in the bank. Forgot Overlords, supply blocked while Protoss is warping in shit at your door. Didn't pay attention for a second, zergling control group at the watch tower got annihilated. I don't really know why, but SC2 is a lot of "oh man I screwed that up" and VERY little of "wow that went well, that's cool". In my opinion, SC2 is hard to learn and hard to master, and the learning part can be very frustrating. Other games, you can just fire up and dick around a little bit, it's fine. SC2 is always so serious... Mistakes in LoL have the same consequences it is not uncommon for 1 person to be caught out of position and result in their team loosing a lot of ground. To make matters worse this upsets the whole moral of the team which often leads to the entire team performing poorly (in solo queue anyway). Games in LoL last between 20mins to 1 hour it is just as serious as starcraft even in normal queue. | ||
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tyCe
Australia2542 Posts
What is happening to TL.net, I don't even know. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On March 12 2012 14:56 Yenticha wrote: Ok, so LoL is more accessible, popular in Asia, free, has better user interface, social features, etc. I really do understand why the player base is bigger. BUT, something that has barely been addressed here (I only read stuff about how sc2 is harder): am I the only one finding LoL really boring to *watch* ? Don't get me wrong, I like to play it. But to watch... And I do enjoy watching sc2, bw, quake 3, CS, wc3, tennis, soccer, judo, swimming... I am quite easily pleased when it comes to watching some competitive sport/activity. But LoL just looks horrible to watch. Camera misses tons of things, its really hard to understand what's going on during a 5v5 fight (even commentators and some players admit they dont understand sometimes...) So: do people watching the stream actually *watch*, enjoy, understand? Or is it more of a background thing thats nice to have running, like TV on when you do the dishes? personally i feel that way about sc2 i always assumed people watched LoL because they want to get better at it | ||
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hoburame
Netherlands48 Posts
Riot PROMOTES ITS OWN SCENE. to make the game even more popular, more played and bring in more revenues. The key thing you mentioned was the fact that you indeed can see it in the game when starting up. people may or may not watch but a percentage of the scene that actualy doesn't check many tournaments at all might start enjoying high level play and bring revenues indirectly to the scene via stream. Every view counts. Also season one of LoL was totaly artificialy made by RIOT, the prize pool, the tounaments, everything was kind of coordinated by RIOT. They just do a terific job of promoting their game and Blizzard is just stupid to learn a lesson from it which is PROMOTE YOUR DAMN SCENE. I always wondered why Blizzard didn't begin with it since they have plenty of money due to WoW to make everything right. Instead of growing it themselves they expect the communities to do it, and that it of course free. I don't like Blizzard beeing inactive about their game since I love starcraft, and the skill required to be at top level truly is amazing, compared to LoL. LoL doesn't deserve such a big part of the world video games. I play LoL at around 2000 ELO and I have played competitive matches. but it is sooooooooooo boring compared to DotA(2) and HoN. The balance of the game is of, tactics are limited, skill cap is too low ( DotA could be such a jukefest sometimes :D ) Competitively unviable without the support and launch of the game like RIOT did. Tell me if it makes sense. | ||
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FrodaN
754 Posts
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Jojo131
Brazil1631 Posts
On March 13 2012 16:52 BordZ wrote: Mistakes in LoL have the same consequences it is not uncommon for 1 person to be caught out of position and result in their team loosing a lot of ground. To make matters worse this upsets the whole moral of the team which often leads to the entire team performing poorly (in solo queue anyway). Games in LoL last between 20mins to 1 hour it is just as serious as starcraft even in normal queue. Whenever this argument comes up with my friends when we're playing LoL our response is that in almost any 5v5 game you really just dont feel those mistakes as much as you do in a 1v1 game like StarCraft. You'd think that even while I'm playing ranked games I'd take things more seriously, but LoL (to me, whenever I play it) is just me dicking around in an easier version of DotA. Again, the mistakes are comparable between both games, but in LoL its almost like you dont feel it enough to care/improve. In SC2 you do. I'm aware that this sounds all like opinion, but I can't possible be the only one who also feels this way. | ||
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Count9
China10928 Posts
Riot's done a great job promoting their game, just like so many of today's pop stars who can't sing for shit have millions of fans because of marketing and production crews. It's pretty easy to interpret if you just frame it with the entertainment industry. Lots of music fans just want generic auto-tune sound, lots of casuals just want a -em dota game that's easy to get into without a lot of the complexity. | ||
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zalz
Netherlands3704 Posts
On March 18 2012 19:57 Count9 wrote: It's stupid people are citing Riot's numbers and then say that proves LoL is a good game. If that was logic then we should get ready to crown Justin Bieber as the best musician in the world. Riot's done a great job promoting their game, just like so many of today's pop stars who can't sing for shit have millions of fans because of marketing and production crews. It's pretty easy to interpret if you just frame it with the entertainment industry. Lots of music fans just want generic auto-tune sound, lots of casuals just want a -em dota game that's easy to get into without a lot of the complexity. But now you are being dishonest. It isn't a matter of player numbers, but apparently it isn't a matter of critical acclaim either (of which LoL has a great deal). So how do you define a good game? The truth in your case is that you simply state arbitrary reasonings which allow you to conclude that Starcraft 2 is still the objectively better game. | ||
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IniX
Netherlands36 Posts
On March 18 2012 19:57 Count9 wrote: If that was logic then we should get ready to crown Justin Bieber as the best musician in the world. *Cough* In all honesty, LoL targets a larger audience and age range in terms of target groups. If you look at the XFire top games played per day, League of Legends beats all games including Call of Duty 4 and World of Warcraft by at least 1,5 million hours (though given, the menu window is counted as game time and people have that window open idle). Riot promotes their own game intensely as an eSport. SC2 gets most its viewership from individual tourney organizations that do their own marketing and promotion. It works, but it's slower. | ||
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