EPTBronze Part 2: Hell is Other People - Page 9
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Vronti
United States111 Posts
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scDeluX
Canada1341 Posts
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tianyou546
United States114 Posts
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Testuser
6469 Posts
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tmas
United States1 Post
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Servius_Fulvius
United States947 Posts
On February 20 2012 08:59 Gheed wrote: I think it is most often "I lost," not "he won." To them it's not their fault they lost; it's because their opponent is a noob/cheeser/hacker/better race/etc. They are enraged and defensive because I have challenged their perceived level of skill in such an abrupt and decisive manner. This refusal to acknowledge failures and learn from them leads to the stagnation that has created the bronze we know today, the bronze that I presume will exist for as long as the game does. It is not so interesting that bronze players are bad, it is interesting that they are bad at learning Refusing to acknowledge your own downfalls as the reason for a loss is the reason a LOT of people stay in lower leagues. I'm a plat zerg and yesterday I played a terran with this attitude.My opponent opted to drop which I promptly shut down with infestors. He lost all eight of his medivacs over four drops and only killed two queens, an infestor, and a handful of drones. My opponent took the opportunity to tell me "infestors are gay". A friend in low masters plays a style that's more "one the edge" (read: cheesy) and consistently gets bad mannered with balance complaints. It's as if a player thinks their masters icon means they have nothing else to learn. And with that kind of attitude they certainly will not. | ||
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HardCorey
United States709 Posts
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ryndaris
263 Posts
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KaueCastro
Brazil18 Posts
That's why brazilians have such a fame of faggs... It's sad | ||
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Kogut
United States147 Posts
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imbecile
563 Posts
All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking and selection. They build cannons for early defense because even badly placed cannons protect them several times better than any zealot controlled by them. They don't scout because their control is so bad that they won't see anything before the unit dies. They lose to worker rushes because selecting all workers and attack moving and focus firing requires a level of speed and precision that is inconcievable and unattainable for them. (I can't count the times when I tried to attack move my drones in response to a 6pool and instead attacked my hatch or pool with them). This is the one thing better players just don't grasp. They are completely oblivious to the gravity of the problem that just basic interface use poses to the fine motor skills and concentration of the majority of people and just how much attention and effort it takes to locate something on the map, click it accurately, then then press the right buttons and click accurately on the map again. Why they don't grasp it? Because those kinds of problems disappeared for them years ago when they played computer games with the mouse and keyboard more than 10 hours a day. They never meet and play against anyone for whom just a basic worker split is a risky undetaking that can lead to a mining loss of 10 seconds and more for half his workers. Most people that try starcraft quickly give up again because they see that just learning the basic motor skills to quickly and accurately click units and the minimap would probably take them several weeks of hard practice for hours every day. People that played console games their who life, and only ever used the computer to browse the web or write documents with 2 fingers: sitting them in front of a starcraft game is like sitting them in front of a church organ. The title of strategy game is very decieving for starcraft. Because the most basic and important skillset is not strategic thinking, or thinking at all. Not even close. The legions of horrible horrible players with maphacks and complete information is a testament to that. The ability to press the buttons or pluck the strings of the instrument is more important for a performer than any understanding of musical theory. Virtually all losses at that stage are the result of misclicks and miscontrols. Either by a single big one that got punished horrribly, or by the accumulative effect many small errors provide. Just the simple act of sending out a scout and looking at it when it sees something can fumble your general control so much that you get supply blocked hard. Just building a refinery or putting workers on gas takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers at the natural. Hell, just moving the screen on the minimap or finding the right control group and pressing it twice takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers. There are brilliant professional writers and good office clerks that write a lot every day for decades and still type with only 2 fingers. That's not because they are stupid. They simply don't have the motor skills. And their motor skills didn't improve much despite them typing for several hours every day for decades. Proper typing training at a much earlier stage would have helped them of course. But those kinds of people would never become a more than average typist. If you pit a decent piano player against a decent chess player in SC2, or a decent Guitar Hero player against a decent HOMM player, the piano and guitar hero player probably will win the majority of the first 100 games they play. I got to diamond as zerg for a brief time, and I never really get past 30 APM. Worker rushes, 6pools, cannon rushes, 2-gates, bunker rushes, early reapers are probably still the strategies I struggle the most with. Defending those successfully is more stressful and draining to me than defending 20minutes of constant drops, because of the fast and precise micro needed and the big impact even small slipups have that early in the game. Well, now, I switched to terran. Still dropped to silver again. Why? Because I'm someone for whom it takes a day of playing before my basic control is good enough to not lose several SCVs to silver level worker harass while my barracks is building. And then it takes another day or two before I don't get heavily supply blocked while not losing any SCVs early. And then I don't play for a few days, and then it again takes a day of playing before I can reliably execute a build in the first 4 minutes of the game again. Edit: as if to prove my point: the amount of typos in this post was staggering. Not because I don't know how to write the words. But because I pressed the wrong keys. And I'm someone who types several hours every day professionally for years. When typing you can proof read and correct. In starcraft you just lose. | ||
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See.Blue
United States2673 Posts
I love these, 5/5. | ||
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THM
Bulgaria1131 Posts
On February 20 2012 11:24 Kraidio wrote: These blogs make me hate myself. The way those players are is exactly how I was when I first played the game. It took me from February of 2011 to July of 2011 to get out of bronze, and I still lost to worker rushes/six pools in Silver. I didn't know what A-move was until someone showed and told me how to do it. I don't understand, if you didn't know what A-move is, then how did you tell your army to attack?? Did you just MOVE them to a certain location and then wait for them to see some bad guys and go after them :D :D :D | ||
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Bagration
United States18282 Posts
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Skeggaba
Korea (South)1556 Posts
And as always, you wonder what is next | ||
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ryndaris
263 Posts
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote: This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control. All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection. etc. This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well. | ||
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ladyumbra
Canada1699 Posts
My first season I lost 70ish% of my games and I still netted 23 wins, mostly against players who didn't know how to wall or what an upgrade was. I opened every game with a poorly executed speedling expand, never got beyond 40ish drones on 2 ( sometimes 3) bases and never spread creep. I was garbage at the game, prone to panicking and accidentally re-rallying my hatchery to my opponent's base while scouting. The next season I won more games pretty much simply due to the fact that I drone scouted better, held watch towers and occasionally sent an overseer out to see wtf my opponent was doing. I wasn't much better at the game then the season before but a simple thing like having more map vision meant I could prepare better. Fuck, my army was still all on one hotkey and I was fond of just massing roaches, broodlords and mutas then A moving to victory. Little by little I've made minor improvements with better openings, army control, expand timings , composition etc. These little adjustments each tend to lead to win streaks that act as a confidence booster but fail to address the fact that just because I won didn't mean I played well. Scouting an incoming bio push and having lings and banes ready to kill it feels great and so some players may fail to look at the replay later and notice that their queen energy is high or that they never got that upgrade they intended to because they got distracted. I've won 50 or so percent of the games I played for the last season and gotten sloppy and complacent. The other day I let my opponent's army sit unscouted between my natural and third for 2 damn minutes. Because I was sending regular overseer scouts out from the back of my base and keeping an eye on his expand timing and production facilities I felt safe even though I'd earlier forfeited the watchtower to him. Despite not knowing his army was there until rallying mutas flew over it I crushed through it and won because I had better upgrades and had been making the right counter units based on the scouting I did do. I felt great, I was a winner I was making progress ! I watched the replay right after and proceeded to feel like a complete idiot. Technically I deserved the win because I played better than he did but realistically I just played less terrible. It's stuff like this that makes it so easy for people in bronze to feel entitled to wins. You get used to doing just enough right ( consciously or subconsciously) to win regularly and you start to feel like your opponents never deserve the wins they do get. You start to look for how they beat you, what trick they used, any excuse that means you didn't do something wrong. There are always going to be people in bronze who don't get it, who rage at every loss and who presumably will never leave that league because they can't or won't overcome bad habits and learn to play better. | ||
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Silv.user
59 Posts
I'dont get it, your an jerk and people applaud? | ||
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babylon
8765 Posts
On February 21 2012 03:21 THM wrote: I don't understand, if you didn't know what A-move is, then how did you tell your army to attack?? Did you just MOVE them to a certain location and then wait for them to see some bad guys and go after them :D :D :D Individually target each unit? I used to not know how to a-move in SCBW, so I would just select my units and right-click on the enemy units/buildings individually. Bear in mind that, well, I was in like ... 4th or 5th grade. | ||
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licarus
United States4 Posts
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