• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 08:04
CET 14:04
KST 22:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book15Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14
Community News
ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0218LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)23Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker10PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar)13
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker Terran Scanner Sweep Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win
Tourneys
RSL Season 4 announced for March-April LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16) PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) RSL Revival: Season 4 Korea Qualifier (Feb 14) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ? [A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 512 Overclocked Mutation # 511 Temple of Rebirth Mutation # 510 Safety Violation
Brood War
General
Which units you wish saw more use in the game? StarCraft player reflex TE scores [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates Gypsy to Korea ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Diablo 2 thread Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Ask and answer stupid questions here! European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
ADHD And Gaming Addiction…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1738 users

Bronze Part 2: Hell is Other People - Page 10

Blogs > Gheed
Post a Reply
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next All
Silvertine
Profile Joined February 2012
United States509 Posts
February 20 2012 19:59 GMT
#181
On February 20 2012 08:59 Gheed wrote:
How the fuck can you not know why you did something?

Is that a serious question?
imbecile
Profile Joined October 2009
563 Posts
February 20 2012 20:00 GMT
#182
On February 21 2012 03:44 RyN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.

etc.


This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.


Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).

People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.

I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.
Demonhunter04
Profile Joined July 2011
1530 Posts
February 20 2012 20:12 GMT
#183
On February 21 2012 04:40 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 03:21 THM wrote:
On February 20 2012 11:24 Kraidio wrote:
These blogs make me hate myself. The way those players are is exactly how I was when I first played the game. It took me from February of 2011 to July of 2011 to get out of bronze, and I still lost to worker rushes/six pools in Silver. I didn't know what A-move was until someone showed and told me how to do it.


I don't understand, if you didn't know what A-move is, then how did you tell your army to attack??

Did you just MOVE them to a certain location and then wait for them to see some bad guys and go after them :D :D :D

Individually target each unit?

I used to not know how to a-move in SCBW, so I would just select my units and right-click on the enemy units/buildings individually. Bear in mind that, well, I was in like ... 4th or 5th grade.


I dunno man, I played SC1 starting when I was in 5th grade and I figured out a lot of hotkeys and combos (such as shift + # to add to group, ctrl + # to create group, etc)....I actually read the command card though.
"If you don't drop sweat today, you will drop tears tomorrow" - SlayerSMMA
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
February 20 2012 20:15 GMT
#184
On February 21 2012 05:00 imbecile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 03:44 RyN wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.

etc.


This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.


Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).

People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.

I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.

While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.
Moderator
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3813 Posts
February 20 2012 20:20 GMT
#185
Obviously this should be spotlighted
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
Ordained
Profile Joined June 2010
United States779 Posts
February 20 2012 20:21 GMT
#186
This is brilliant. Eagerly awaiting the next.
"You are not trying to win, you are trying to be awesome" -Day[9]
QuanticHawk
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States32122 Posts
February 20 2012 20:22 GMT
#187
Love this series, gheed
PROFESSIONAL GAMER - SEND ME OFFERS TO JOIN YOUR TEAM - USA USA USA
HackBenjamin
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada1094 Posts
February 20 2012 20:41 GMT
#188
On February 21 2012 04:32 Silv.user wrote:
Idont get it, u make bronze league more crappy with BM cocky vs opponents. And you clearly dont belong in bronze.

I'dont get it, your an jerk and people applaud?



Check out the following definitions:

Satire
Comedy
Social Experiments


Thanks
imbecile
Profile Joined October 2009
563 Posts
February 20 2012 20:43 GMT
#189
On February 21 2012 05:15 Myles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 05:00 imbecile wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:44 RyN wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.

etc.


This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.


Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).

People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.

I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.

While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.


Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.

Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.
Lolpuma
Profile Joined June 2010
United States17 Posts
February 20 2012 20:46 GMT
#190
I feel as if you are a prophet trying to lead the ignorant and the blind. Love the thread btw, very entertaining and... oddly informative
heha
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Australia425 Posts
February 20 2012 20:49 GMT
#191
Amazing, best one in the series yet. I like that you're actually trying to do something constructive with it now (educating the poor fools). Some (read most) of the reactions you've gotten are.... scary to say the least.

... Yeah, I can see how you can start to doubt humanity after this....
Random for life! phoneheha
zazone
Profile Joined April 2011
Romania460 Posts
February 20 2012 20:52 GMT
#192
Had a good read.This is brilliant
Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?-Adolf Hitler
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
February 20 2012 21:01 GMT
#193
On February 21 2012 05:43 imbecile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 05:15 Myles wrote:
On February 21 2012 05:00 imbecile wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:44 RyN wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.

etc.


This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.


Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).

People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.

I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.

While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.


Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.

Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.


That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.
Moderator
TheAwesomeAll
Profile Joined January 2011
Netherlands1609 Posts
February 20 2012 21:02 GMT
#194
Modern art, i dare say
dr Helvetica <3
Hakanfrog
Profile Joined October 2011
Sweden690 Posts
February 20 2012 21:12 GMT
#195
Fun read! In my bronze days I was surely quite dumb, but I´m not sure it was at this level.
Moggles
Profile Joined September 2011
1 Post
February 20 2012 21:28 GMT
#196
+ Show Spoiler +
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking and selection.

They build cannons for early defense because even badly placed cannons protect them several times better than any zealot controlled by them.

They don't scout because their control is so bad that they won't see anything before the unit dies.

They lose to worker rushes because selecting all workers and attack moving and focus firing requires a level of speed and precision that is inconcievable and unattainable for them. (I can't count the times when I tried to attack move my drones in response to a 6pool and instead attacked my hatch or pool with them).

This is the one thing better players just don't grasp. They are completely oblivious to the gravity of the problem that just basic interface use poses to the fine motor skills and concentration of the majority of people and just how much attention and effort it takes to locate something on the map, click it accurately, then then press the right buttons and click accurately on the map again.

Why they don't grasp it? Because those kinds of problems disappeared for them years ago when they played computer games with the mouse and keyboard more than 10 hours a day. They never meet and play against anyone for whom just a basic worker split is a risky undetaking that can lead to a mining loss of 10 seconds and more for half his workers.

Most people that try starcraft quickly give up again because they see that just learning the basic motor skills to quickly and accurately click units and the minimap would probably take them several weeks of hard practice for hours every day. People that played console games their who life, and only ever used the computer to browse the web or write documents with 2 fingers: sitting them in front of a starcraft game is like sitting them in front of a church organ.

The title of strategy game is very decieving for starcraft. Because the most basic and important skillset is not strategic thinking, or thinking at all. Not even close. The legions of horrible horrible players with maphacks and complete information is a testament to that. The ability to press the buttons or pluck the strings of the instrument is more important for a performer than any understanding of musical theory.

Virtually all losses at that stage are the result of misclicks and miscontrols. Either by a single big one that got punished horrribly, or by the accumulative effect many small errors provide. Just the simple act of sending out a scout and looking at it when it sees something can fumble your general control so much that you get supply blocked hard. Just building a refinery or putting workers on gas takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers at the natural. Hell, just moving the screen on the minimap or finding the right control group and pressing it twice takes enough time for someone to kill all your workers.

There are brilliant professional writers and good office clerks that write a lot every day for decades and still type with only 2 fingers. That's not because they are stupid. They simply don't have the motor skills. And their motor skills didn't improve much despite them typing for several hours every day for decades. Proper typing training at a much earlier stage would have helped them of course. But those kinds of people would never become a more than average typist.

If you pit a decent piano player against a decent chess player in SC2, or a decent Guitar Hero player against a decent HOMM player, the piano and guitar hero player probably will win the majority of the first 100 games they play.

I got to diamond as zerg for a brief time, and I never really get past 30 APM. Worker rushes, 6pools, cannon rushes, 2-gates, bunker rushes, early reapers are probably still the strategies I struggle the most with. Defending those successfully is more stressful and draining to me than defending 20minutes of constant drops, because of the fast and precise micro needed and the big impact even small slipups have that early in the game.

Well, now, I switched to terran. Still dropped to silver again. Why? Because I'm someone for whom it takes a day of playing before my basic control is good enough to not lose several SCVs to silver level worker harass while my barracks is building. And then it takes another day or two before I don't get heavily supply blocked while not losing any SCVs early. And then I don't play for a few days, and then it again takes a day of playing before I can reliably execute a build in the first 4 minutes of the game again.

Edit: as if to prove my point: the amount of typos in this post was staggering. Not because I don't know how to write the words. But because I pressed the wrong keys. And I'm someone who types several hours every day professionally for years. When typing you can proof read and correct. In starcraft you just lose.


This, a thousand times over.

I'm currently 30 years old and it took me 29 years to realise I've been playing RTS games in a stunted fashion for my whole life.

The basic macro game concepts such as build some kind of economy, build tech, build units, replace units that die were all present and I believe are there in all players who have a basic interest in playing the game. These are all simply tools and strategies that are available for a person to play with. It's the execution of the play that is the flaw.

My mind truely was truely blown by Starcraft 2. From my previous experiences with games like Age of Empires and Command and Conquer I understood that I needed hotkeys to keep my production flowing however I suddenly discovered that there was a whole other level to this type of game. Mutitasking, discovered by watching first person steams and vods of Starcraft 2.

I was playing around in a multitasking trainer map and I cannot truely describe the almost transcendent experience I felt the very first time I was moving my scout, monitoring constant probe production and then pressing 3-3BE to build a pylon back in base before hitting 1-1 to return to my scout to keep it moving, this all within the space of 1-2 seconds....!!?

Ureka! An entirely new dimension of RTS possibilities opened in my mind. It felt for a short while that all time had slowed down, maybe I was just thinking faster, remembering more. The timeline bars on the UI seemed to slow to a crawl. Each probe felt like 34 seconds build time. My macro and micro were still so sloppy but all this extra thinking time allowed me to shift focus to those things.

I hope that other people have at some point in their gaming life felt this moment. I would encourage anyone to work on their controls to get this feeling. When playing an RTS is no longer a single mouse click sim city turtle experience and you start to feel the deep level of control that is available to you. Go explore that fog of war it's yours for the taking.

I wonder how slowly progress bars move in the mind of a 400APM GSL champion.


TLDR: Learn how to control hotkeys, keyboard, mouse and UI fast and accurate. It will open a new dimension on your understanding of whats possible in an RTS.

imbecile
Profile Joined October 2009
563 Posts
February 20 2012 21:37 GMT
#197
On February 21 2012 06:01 Myles wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 05:43 imbecile wrote:
On February 21 2012 05:15 Myles wrote:
On February 21 2012 05:00 imbecile wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:44 RyN wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.

etc.


This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.


Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).

People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.

I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.

While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.


Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.

Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.


That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.


Sorry, it's not just know whem and where to place your attention. It's actually being able to shift that attention. The simplest worker harrass or just the pressence of a worker can completely fuck any one over who has to dedicate most of his consciousness to just selecting a worker at the right time. There is a reason cheese is so comon in the lower leagues: even if it was dismally executed and doesn't even kill much, it derails anyone with bad mechanics to a degreee they can't really recover from. Getting cannon rushed at that level means choosing between dying because the cannons get up or dying because you forgot to make an overlord or your queen or the pool or ling speed, simply because you are not able to take care of all this at the same time, because each of those takes you ages. There was a time when I consciously let my first scouting SCV die a lot of games because I simply couldn't look at it, save it and build my 3rd depot in time. Or how often I lost because I accidently made a drone too much, pressing the wrong key and my pool was too late because of it. Making an evo chamber instead of a pool happened a few times too. In an environment where more than 60% of the players cheese you within the first 5 minutes, any one of those little control errors can cost you a game immediately. And every low level player makes several of those every minute.

Not because they don't know better. Most of them have read forums, watched games and know build orders. A lot of them go even around asking on forums before they ever touch the game in multiplayer. You see several of those posts every day if you look. They just can't do it properly. To you it is trivial to make depots and scvs on time- you don't even think about it. To a bad player this is already too high level. They struggle already with selecting an SCV. They struggle already with sendign an SCV to a proper building place. They struggle already hitting build and build depot button. Or they use the mouse for it and take several seconds just to find the right icon. They can't worry much about hitting SCV and depot timings, because they have to worry about hitting keys.
Hyperionnn
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Turkey4968 Posts
February 20 2012 21:39 GMT
#198
you gotta have too much free time in your hands probably

still read both of your blogs, was pretty entertaining
jinglesassy
Profile Joined December 2011
United States15 Posts
February 20 2012 21:40 GMT
#199
Interesting read on the lowest of the low in bronze. Next blog you do though id like for you to find out how they know what glhf and gg means if they dont know about the pro scene and the community surrounding it.
Myles
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States5162 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-20 21:51:09
February 20 2012 21:50 GMT
#200
On February 21 2012 06:37 imbecile wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 21 2012 06:01 Myles wrote:
On February 21 2012 05:43 imbecile wrote:
On February 21 2012 05:15 Myles wrote:
On February 21 2012 05:00 imbecile wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:44 RyN wrote:
On February 21 2012 03:13 imbecile wrote:
This article just demonstrates that the better players just cannot conceive that the most pressing problem, the thing bronze players struggle most with and that makes the game a an arduous exercise every second is basic interface use and unit control.

All those horrible things the good players see the bad players do and don't understand why: the reason is always because they struggle with basic button pressing and mouse clicking ad selection.

etc.


This post actually makes a lot of sense. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't true in the majority of these cases - what we (as relatively seasoned gamers) perceive as a mental inaptness could probably very well be physical - for us using the mouse and keyboard in the fashions that we do has long become second nature. This is not the case for everyone though - there's bound to be people like that that managed to get their hands on a copy of SC2 as well.


Another indicator that the main difference between the different skill levels is not strategy and game understanding but basic button pressing is that I used the same builds and strategies that I used in bronze in diamond too, just as successful (or unsuccessful, if you like).

People use 4gates, 6pools, cannon rushes in all leagues on all servers. The difference is not that one 4gate or 6pool or cannon rush is smarter than the other. The difference is one of them can press the buttons faster and more precisely.

I have seen professional playes say the most oblivious, uninformed and stupid things on basic game mechanics and unit abilities of their own races. The reason those are up there is not because they are smarter and more knowledgeable, but because they can press buttons better.

While your point has some merit - there's a reason that mechanics are drilled into every noob - mechanics alone don't mean everything. A GM's 4 gate doesn't show up 4 minutes earlier then a bronze's just because he clicks faster. What build you choose is almost as important as how you execute it.


Sorry, gotta disagree here. When both players go gateway, assimilator, core, warpgate, all time differences are execution. There is no real room to rearrange or shift. And if you do, it always comes at some price and is a gamble. You can alleviate those risks by having good scouting and delaying your opponent: but both are things that require you to step up your mechanics several levels if you wanna do those and not fuck yourself over more than your opponent.

Now, I do agree that good strategy and smart risk taking can win you games. That's why my ZvZ was by far my best matchup depsite having dismal unit control and reaction times. I know I will never be able to consitently go above 30APM, simply because despite the thousands of games I played since the release, I only improved from about 15-20APM at the start to 30 in 2 weeks, and then was stuck there, no matter how much more I played and how much I tried. Not at my age. So eventually I started trying to find strategies that allow me to get away with this handicap most of the time.


That's exactly most bronzes problem, they shouldn't rearrange or shift, but they do, probably without even realizing it. They don't properly choose OR execute a build, if they even have one in mind. And even if they have the proper 4 gate build, things like forgetting when to build/cut workers, forgetting to click warpgate, forgetting a forward pylon, none of these things require even average mechanics. I could execute a proper 4 gate with 15 apm, it just comes down to knowing when and where to place your attention.


Sorry, it's not just know whem and where to place your attention. It's actually being able to shift that attention. The simplest worker harrass or just the pressence of a worker can completely fuck any one over who has to dedicate most of his consciousness to just selecting a worker at the right time. There is a reason cheese is so comon in the lower leagues: even if it was dismally executed and doesn't even kill much, it derails anyone with bad mechanics to a degreee they can't really recover from. Getting cannon rushed at that level means choosing between dying because the cannons get up or dying because you forgot to make an overlord or your queen or the pool or ling speed, simply because you are not able to take care of all this at the same time, because each of those takes you ages. There was a time when I consciously let my first scouting SCV die a lot of games because I simply couldn't look at it, save it and build my 3rd depot in time. Or how often I lost because I accidently made a drone too much, pressing the wrong key and my pool was too late because of it. Making an evo chamber instead of a pool happened a few times too. In an environment where more than 60% of the players cheese you within the first 5 minutes, any one of those little control errors can cost you a game immediately. And every low level player makes several of those every minute.

Not because they don't know better. Most of them have read forums, watched games and know build orders. A lot of them go even around asking on forums before they ever touch the game in multiplayer. You see several of those posts every day if you look. They just can't do it properly. To you it is trivial to make depots and scvs on time- you don't even think about it. To a bad player this is already too high level. They struggle already with selecting an SCV. They struggle already with sendign an SCV to a proper building place. They struggle already hitting build and build depot button. Or they use the mouse for it and take several seconds just to find the right icon. They can't worry much about hitting SCV and depot timings, because they have to worry about hitting keys.

If they struggle just to select an scv and move it one place to another, then I question how they get anything done in life at all without having their hand held the entire time.

I say this because I was one of the bronze noobs. I started off in the beta with no previous rts experience. Over about 6 months I learned what was necessary to get me to borderline masters. I did this with about 60 apm. I see no reason why any normal human being can't do the same. Learn for your mistakes, develop a little bit of muscle memory, and learn to multitask a bit.

It's one thing to be losing to this kind of stuff your first few weeks, but after a while you should adapt. If you're still losing to bronze players doing horrible builds after hundreds of games, well, I think you need to take a hard look in the mirror because you either don't care enough to learn, or you have some other handicap that should probably be addressed. And I find it hard to believe that all these bronze players are handicapped.
Moderator
Prev 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12:00
Bonus Cup #3
uThermal293
Liquipedia
LiuLi Cup
11:00
2025 Grand Finals Playoffs
Clem vs MaruLIVE!
Rogue vs TriGGeR
ByuN vs Serral
ComeBackTV 1856
RotterdaM1845
PiGStarcraft509
IndyStarCraft 372
BRAT_OK 222
Rex168
3DClanTV 60
IntoTheiNu 29
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1845
PiGStarcraft509
IndyStarCraft 372
uThermal 293
BRAT_OK 222
Rex 168
goblin 82
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 45976
Barracks 6808
Jaedong 1561
Flash 1419
Hyuk 1020
Soma 616
Stork 579
firebathero 418
Soulkey 404
Light 404
[ Show more ]
Snow 250
Rush 219
Last 182
Leta 133
Pusan 108
Killer 82
Aegong 60
Sea.KH 54
Movie 51
sorry 48
Bonyth 39
Free 38
Yoon 32
Hm[arnc] 30
Sharp 29
ToSsGirL 28
soO 28
yabsab 28
JulyZerg 26
Terrorterran 22
IntoTheRainbow 20
910 19
Shine 17
HiyA 16
zelot 16
Shinee 14
ivOry 13
Calm 0
Dota 2
Gorgc2894
singsing2120
XcaliburYe167
febbydoto9
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2922
fl0m1891
byalli434
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King90
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor281
Other Games
B2W.Neo1043
crisheroes430
KnowMe53
ArmadaUGS34
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL21593
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH118
• Adnapsc2 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• FirePhoenix7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos2952
Upcoming Events
PSISTORM Gaming Misc
3h 51m
RSL Revival
4h 56m
AI Arena Tournament
6h 56m
Replay Cast
10h 56m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 56m
LiuLi Cup
21h 56m
Ladder Legends
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 10h
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Wardi Open
1d 22h
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
2 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
PiG Sty Festival
4 days
The PondCast
4 days
KCM Race Survival
4 days
WardiTV Winter Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
PiG Sty Festival
5 days
Epic.LAN
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
PiG Sty Festival
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Epic.LAN
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W8
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: King of Kings
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 1st Round Qualifier
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
WardiTV Winter 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.