We yearn for more money. We claim we don't need money.
We strive for jobs giving more money. Yet we are shackled by those same jobs because of money.
Money is many things. Its nature is multidimensional, and our relationship with it is complex at best.
Let's try to distill this. At its very essence, what is money?
Money is, at its core, simply a medium of exchange. But the key is that it is is used for exchanging virtually anything. The things we can exchange for money range from trivial to obscene: a can of soda, a new coat, a car, a horse, a house, an island, etc. In some cases, or even many cases, money is exchanged for time, or even affection.
So we can get a lot of things by having money. But how do we get this "money" in the first place? For most of us, we "work" for the money. What is work? Work is the exchange of our time for money. The countless hours that we've spent toiling our craft even before the present job is also rolled into the barter equation.
So as the saying goes, time truly is money.
So we exchange our time for money, in order to obtain other things by trading away this money. It's the way things revolve around the world, isn't it...
But what if we had tons of money? What would be different? We'd still be able to get all those material things, but would no longer have to trade in our time to get them. Suddenly, we have a lot more time at our disposal.
Having money would give us time. Having money would set us free.
hm, I like this logical approach. I'm not sure if you'd prefer to discuss the structure of the argument or whether there's truth to it. But with respect to the message you're trying to convey, there also exists the law of diminishing marginal utility which is seen very easily in how people respond to personal income. so, it's nice to aim for a big number, but generally speaking you could spend your time focusing on other means of personal satisfaction and it will probably be a better use of your time. I understand there was a princeton study which found that people with higher incomes don't necessarily spend their time in more enjoyable ways than people who earn much less. but of course the lift from poverty into middle class would increase happiness.
but I do generally disagree with the idea that money can't buy happiness. it certainly buys the ingredients!
This is totally wrong. Money is the biggest slavery known to mankind. Unfortunately the times that we live in, make a lot of people believe that money gives them freedom, happiness, love etc...
On February 09 2012 18:48 mdb wrote: This is totally wrong. Money is the biggest slavery known to mankind. Unfortunately the times that we live in, make a lot of people believe that money gives them freedom, happiness, love etc...
At first this seems true, but if one had enough money one could retire for the rest of one's life to do whatever they wanted. Isn't that freedom? That's what Haji is saying.
In addition, many people who do make this money do not retire. They continue working because they don't know anything else. That's not slavery, it's finding purpose.
A lot more people would be better off if they loved money more than they loved the things money can buy. I would be sick to my stomach if I spent $300 on a pair of Air Jordan's that cost probably $10 to make. But some people will go crazy just to have a chance at being taken advantage of by a corporation in such a way.
Money buys happiness. There's a certain point of wealth where happiness is achieved by having all expenses met, where MORE money couldn't possibly increase your standard of living. It is the line between luxury and island-owning, I think. As for me, I'll always take more... money is also your shield against the law, and it means more than your vote. Money is democracy, these days.
Now this isn't saying anything about whether the actual currency we use is any good... It's kind of a bad system really.. one where the value of the currency must depreciate constantly.
I dont work for money I work for enjoyment. Enjoy what you do then you are Not "shackled down by the system." Spending 60+ hours a week earning minimum wage and i fucking love it
Money is latent value. You exchange money for value. You work for value. You work for money. Your work is valuable. If you already have value then you don't need to work.
"Money can't buy happiness" hahahha I disagree. There's an old Chinese saying: "Money can make Death turn the stone grain mill."
I feel bad for materialistic people. They're never satisfied, always want smth more , want to buy lots of houses, companies, luxuries. Sadly, this applies to majority. People hurt each other to get richer. I never stop asking is that worth it. Remember when blizzard was a small company? passionate, they really cared about what they were doing, about their fans, games. now, after activision came in, all they care is money. Money is evil, not freedom
wouldnt anyone truly agree that happiness* is a state where your conscious is diminished? where you don't have to think of your circumstances, think about anything negative?
truly, i believe, happiness can interrupt your conscious and make you lack in areas of your life.
so, yes, i believe money can buy happiness; to the extent where you have servants, a big house, doesnt have to worry much about expenses, or any harm to you.
On February 09 2012 21:49 Revolt wrote: wouldnt anyone truly agree that happiness* is a state where your conscious is diminished? where you don't have to think of your circumstances, think about anything negative?
truly, i believe, happiness can interrupt your conscious and make you lack in areas of your life.
so, yes, i believe money can buy happiness; to the extent where you have servants, a big house, doesnt have to worry much about expenses, or any harm to you.
lol what? since when is conscious defined as the amount of worry in your life? are you really saying that it's a bad thing that the opportunity cost of being happy is not worrying? if you do truly believe that, then I feel sorry for you. you can be happy and productive at the same time.
such a strange thing to say
edit: furthermore, you are defining a short-term happiness with your examples of servants, a big house, and lack of expense worry. while these seem like great things when we're children, in reality we can lose a lot by being spoiled, feeling too prideful, being lazy, or not appreciating the value of a dollar. these material things have no foundation for true happiness, it's empty carbs.
Money, I want more money! As I make more money I desire more money! I spend money, I need money. Money money money!
Between checking my bi-monthly payment statement and having a 4-piece meal @ KFC with coleslaw and coleslaw (yes, I get two coleslaws for my choice of two sides)... I honestly feel happier tasting the 18 spices and herbs.
On February 09 2012 17:11 thedeadhaji wrote: But what if we had tons of money? What would be different? We'd still be able to get all those material things, but would no longer have to trade in our time to get them.
Wrong, the basic laws of economy say that if everyone has tons of money, then the value degrades.
Money are desirable because they are scarce (in a sense)
I would say that money are just exange for services/time or something, the problem lies in that we have become so obsessed with it that we often value it higher than the things we buy with them
If it was up to me, i would remove money on a "survival scale" as in buying food, homes and stuff. Then rather make it only for "consumer" objects, such as fancy clothes, plasma tvs, plasma cannons and such :D
All I want is enough money to eat sleep in a house or apartment(doesnt matter) have a car, play games. The rest really isn't to important to me fancy shit doesn't really interest me. It would be nice to have millions just so I can help family or friends when they really need it. IF i had the millions I would do that for them any time. I do that now with just the small amount i make .
More free time does not equal more freedom... A homeless guy will have more free time, but he is not free. Having more money definitely does not make you more free either.
Is it money that buys happiness or the freedom of time?
Would you be happier if you had all the money in the world but never the time to appreciate it? Or the freedom of time to do whatever you want but not be paid very well?
I think I prefer time over money because I could live without fancy clothes/cars as they don't define me. Sure, going to exotic places can be nice, but i can have an equal amount of joy by going to a basic destination such as a diner, as long as its a good time.
However, there are spoiled rich kids who have the best of both worlds and possibly unhappy still. So I think "happiness" is just a state of mind and people always a choice to be happy, despite how good or bad one's financial situation is.
Your average 40 year old worker with a mortgage, car loan, 2 kids and a wife is so deep in the red with respect to financial balance, that he is scared shitless of losing his job. Absolutely terrified. He can't afford to not work, and cannot afford to risk doing anything that would jeopardize his job, because he has traded in his time in advance for a cash advance.
If you get into a situation where you have no choice but to have to spend X dollars per month (on paying back loans, or even just the basic necessities for your family), you've enslaved yourself to your monthly loan payments, and you have no such thing as freedom anymore. As people have said in the replies, you're enslaved to money and enslaved to a job. You're stuck.
The opposite state from this would be one where you're firmly in the black, and you actually have a choice to not work. I imagine that most people here are actually in the latter state, since people on this forum tend to be young and haven't made any deep financial commitments yet. This is quite frankly a powerful position to be in.
On February 10 2012 01:49 thedeadhaji wrote: Your average 40 year old worker with a mortgage, car loan, 2 kids and a wife is so deep in the red with respect to financial balance, that he is scared shitless of losing his job. Absolutely terrified. He can't afford to not work, and cannot afford to risk doing anything that would jeopardize his job, because he has traded in his time in advance for a cash advance.
If you get into a situation where you have no choice but to have to spend X dollars per month (on paying back loans, or even just the basic necessities for your family), you've enslaved yourself to your monthly loan payments, and you have no such thing as freedom anymore. As people have said in the replies, you're enslaved to money and enslaved to a job. You're stuck.
The opposite state from this would be one where you're firmly in the black, and you actually have a choice to not work. I imagine that most people here are actually in the latter state, since people on this forum tend to be young and haven't made any deep financial commitments yet. This is quite frankly a powerful position to be in.
this is wrong but I'm about to take a test, brb
40yr olds can plan to allocate income across all expenses, while still having money for discretionary spending and investing for the future. young people on this forum tend to be in college and therefore have a ton of debt with little asset accrual, so we're aiming to take risks to accumulate our wealth now, until we get to the 40yo age you mentioned, whereupon we will enter a conservative state.
On February 10 2012 01:49 thedeadhaji wrote: Your average 40 year old worker with a mortgage, car loan, 2 kids and a wife is so deep in the red with respect to financial balance, that he is scared shitless of losing his job. Absolutely terrified. He can't afford to not work, and cannot afford to risk doing anything that would jeopardize his job, because he has traded in his time in advance for a cash advance.
If you get into a situation where you have no choice but to have to spend X dollars per month (on paying back loans, or even just the basic necessities for your family), you've enslaved yourself to your monthly loan payments, and you have no such thing as freedom anymore. As people have said in the replies, you're enslaved to money and enslaved to a job. You're stuck.
The opposite state from this would be one where you're firmly in the black, and you actually have a choice to not work. I imagine that most people here are actually in the latter state, since people on this forum tend to be young and haven't made any deep financial commitments yet. This is quite frankly a powerful position to be in.
this is wrong but I'm about to take a test, brb
40yr olds can plan to allocate income across all expenses, while still having money for discretionary spending and investing for the future. young people on this forum tend to be in college and therefore have a ton of debt with little asset accrual, so we're aiming to take risks to accumulate our wealth now, until we get to the 40yo age you mentioned, whereupon we will enter a conservative state.
I'd say his general sentiment about ability to take on risk stands, though. There's no better time to quit your job, start your own company, or just do whatever you want than the years after college when you're still unmarried and without kids. Regardless of what you do with it, you have the choice available to you; once you settle down, it's a lot harder to take those risks.
Money now is generally worth more than money later, as well, so it's not necessarily a bad thing to be in debt when you're young. Your money's perceived utility to you is also greater (assuming your earning power goes up over time), so some people actually suggest keeping your actual expenditures flat throughout your life (borrowing when you're young) if you're trying to maximize your money's utility.
On February 09 2012 19:46 Cubu wrote: pretty sure everyone knew they could achieve freedom from having enough money not to work.
The end goal of his blog was just to complain about people who spend too much money on nonessentials though. I think his statements are too broad and that things should be taken on a case by case basis.
Once we get rid of extreme greed and get technologically advanced enough we can totally get rid of all money and everyone could just get everything they wanted and needed without problem (as long as we don't stupidly overpopulate the planet). Would be sweet.
On February 09 2012 19:46 Cubu wrote: pretty sure everyone knew they could achieve freedom from having enough money not to work.
The end goal of his blog was just to complain about people who spend too much money on nonessentials though. I think his statements are too broad and that things should be taken on a case by case basis.
Yeah, I think I should have done a better job at emphasizing this Needed a sentence or two somewhere in the latter half of the entry.
Will try again with another entry on money soon where I'll hopefully do a better job at not getting yourself into a position where you have no choice but to sell off your time in order to get money.
Poverty is a mental illness. It sounds rather superficial but it took me a whole journey to figure out what that truly means. And you're right, money is freedom. Money is attracted to freedom, freedom is attracted to money. Because money is an idea, a notion. When people think "money", they are thinking the actual medium of exchange. But if you live with a mind of abundance, despite what is printed on your latest bank account statement, you will live a life of wealth. "Not having enough money" is not the problem. Not living a life of pure passion is. Because if one lives a life of pure, resistance-less passion...In other words, if one lives a life of freedom, money will roll in on it's own. However, that's all part of the ride. For some, it's easier; For many, it's difficult.
EPT
